EPTShopping website to fine customers using IE7 - Page 5
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docvoc
United States5491 Posts
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Greggle
United States1131 Posts
On June 15 2012 06:06 docvoc wrote: I really think people bitch too much about IE7, its just a simple browser, nothing special. I understand its not as good as firefox, chrome, or safari. I just feel this is kind of drastic and sets a bad precedent that companies should just drop people who don't understand computers as well as the current generation. From the perspective of someone who just uses the internet that makes sense, but these complaints are coming from people who make the internet usable for everyone else. It is a ton of extra work to make things work on old browsers, and in fact people using old browsers are holding back the development of the world wide web. If it weren't for so many people using outdated versions of IE we could all be watching videos without any shitty plugins that crash half the time or with a million security errors *cough* flash *cough*. Old browsers slow down the development of standards such as HTML5 and CSS3. I'm glad someone is stepping up and telling these people to get with the times. And if there's a network admin out there reading this that doesn't have everyone at least using IE 8 or 9 then shame on you. | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
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Zoesan
Switzerland141 Posts
On June 15 2012 06:06 docvoc wrote: I really think people bitch too much about IE7, its just a simple browser, nothing special. I understand its not as good as firefox, chrome, or safari. I just feel this is kind of drastic and sets a bad precedent that companies should just drop people who don't understand computers as well as the current generation. As already stated above: Making a website work on firefox, opera, chrome and safari takes very little effort and you can essentially use the exact same code for all of them. Try to make it work on IE and you can basically just remake the whole thing, because so many basic things just don't fucking work on IE It's a ridiculous pain in the ass. | ||
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Thezzy
Netherlands2117 Posts
On June 15 2012 05:56 Chaosvuistje wrote: In Holland the customerbase still using IE6 is 0.2% according to statcounter. I seriously do not understand why you still need to optimize for it. Is your customerbase 80 year old fishermen or something? If you aren't willing to drop support when there are only 0.2% of them using a browser, when ARE you willing to drop them? The main problem is that two of our more larger customers still use it. Internally they still have it running (on XP machines I'd figure) and can't seem to be motivated to update them. They're all mostly office clients/PCs so I guess they just didn't see the need for an upgrade. Even though the upgrade itself is obviously free, from what I've told, actually doing the upgrade would still cost time and money. And there are a few older customers as well, we had one using an Access 97 database that we needed to import!  If it was up to me, I'd drop the IE6 support and be on the fence for IE7 (opting not to support it unless the customer needs it) support, but alas, such is business life. | ||
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EngrishTeacher
Canada1109 Posts
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
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brolaf
291 Posts
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OsoVega
926 Posts
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Greggle
United States1131 Posts
On June 15 2012 09:51 brolaf wrote: How about use old fashioned tables and forms? Works fine in IE3 even and technically allows one to do all online business. Internet business worked fine in 1998-2000 didnt it? A site that looks like that would be the equivalent of a back alley abortion clinic. | ||
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writer22816
United States5775 Posts
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nekoconeco
Australia359 Posts
On June 15 2012 06:06 docvoc wrote: I really think people bitch too much about IE7, its just a simple browser, nothing special. I understand its not as good as firefox, chrome, or safari. I just feel this is kind of drastic and sets a bad precedent that companies should just drop people who don't understand computers as well as the current generation. ^ clearly not a web developer. It can cost a lot of money to support older browsers such as IE6-8. I have spent a lot of time in the past fixing issues with these browsers (they have a lot of strange quirks and are hard to debug effectively). Still it is nowhere near as bad as coding HTML email templates for MS Outlook. It might seems a bit harsh however these users have no excuse since they can just install the chrome frame plugin from Google and still keep the same browser and os. In some ways I wish the precedent had been there from the start for websites to have clearer browser requirements. Forcing users to become used to having to update regularly. That was one of the reasons that Flash was such as powerful tool back around 2004-2009. With the rise of HTML5 and the web application you will see more and more sites throw up a message if minimum requirements aren't met by the browser. | ||
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althaz
Australia1001 Posts
IE 6 and lower are HORRIBLE, IE 7 is awful and IE 8 is pretty crap, people shouldn't be punished for choosing the MS browser anymore, but they SHOULD be punished for using an old browser when it is a trivial task to upgrade. | ||
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Wildflame
Australia5 Posts
Kogan is an Australian online-only retailer, selling self-branded consumer electronics sourced from south-east Asia and 'grey imports', products intended for overseas markets but redirected to Australia to undercut local sellers. I bought a phone from them, for instance, which booted up in German. Thankfully, language selection is the first or second thing you do in initial setup! Kogan appeals primarily to technologically sophisticated customers who are highly comfortable dealing with an online-only store, are comfortable with the idea that most consumer electronics are made for multiple brands in the same factories, and are comfortable with the restrictions that come with grey importing (no manufacturer warranty). They also run limited advertising (except for online) as far as I'm aware, focusing on getting exposure through current-affairs media (60 Minutes, Today Tonight) and news articles rather than paid-for ads on TV and in print. Therefore, I agree with a previous poster that this is primarily a PR stunt. They probably found that 1% or less of their customer base uses IE7 (I wouldn't be surprised if the total share of Kogan's customers using IE at all was below 10%). Therefore, put on a controversial tax (that will affect almost none of their target market customers), get free publicity. TLDR: I studied marketing this term and am showing off. Kogan is getting cheap publicity by running a stunt that will affect almost none of their customers. Smart marketing. | ||
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CatNzHat
United States1599 Posts
On June 15 2012 00:33 tofucake wrote: As a web developer, I feel like I must pressure Kogan about this tax. It's completely unreasonable. It should be no less than 15%. No but seriously IE sucks. Hurray for Kogan! As a fellow web developer, I have to whole-heartedly agree with you that IE7 and older is an absolute nightmare to develop for. The solution of taxing IE7 users is a bit strange in my opinion, I'd rather just force them to upgrade; if an IE7 client is detected it would prevent access and provide links to download the latest versions of firefox, chrome, opera, safari, and IE. | ||
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CatNzHat
United States1599 Posts
On June 15 2012 06:06 docvoc wrote: I really think people bitch too much about IE7, its just a simple browser, nothing special. I understand its not as good as firefox, chrome, or safari. I just feel this is kind of drastic and sets a bad precedent that companies should just drop people who don't understand computers as well as the current generation. You're completely missing the point here: It's costs them a lot of money to develop an IE7 compatible version of their site, taxing users that are causing them this problem is morally acceptable, and i would encourage other companies to contiue this trend. As far as dropping people who don't undestand computers well: From a business standpoint, customers less comfortable with technology aren't going to be buying things or clicking on ads, or consuming/producing much content in comparison to tech savy users. They're not a very valuable demographic to e-commerce sites, so a small harm to them is entirely worth tightening up your web development process. | ||
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CatNzHat
United States1599 Posts
On June 15 2012 09:51 brolaf wrote: How about use old fashioned tables and forms? Works fine in IE3 even and technically allows one to do all online business. Internet business worked fine in 1998-2000 didnt it? *squint* can't tell if troll or not *squint* Because they look like crap, cost a ton to develop, and be extremely difficult to maintain and upgrade. Internet business didn't work fine from 1998-2000, it worked crapily and wasnt' an enjoyable experience at all. There is a huge online sales market today, way larger than it was pre-2000, and that is largely due to the fact that it is now a pleasant experience for users. Shopping carts utilize advanced backend databases, browsing and sorting/filtering items dynamically in real-time is done with modern javascript libraries and advanced CSS (compared to 2000). | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On June 15 2012 00:36 bonifaceviii wrote: The PR behind this is wrong. They should present it as a discount to customers who have an up-to-date browser. you sir are simply brilliant. | ||
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brolaf
291 Posts
On June 15 2012 16:23 CatNzHat wrote: *squint* can't tell if troll or not *squint* Because they look like crap, cost a ton to develop, and be extremely difficult to maintain and upgrade. Internet business didn't work fine from 1998-2000, it worked crapily and wasnt' an enjoyable experience at all. There is a huge online sales market today, way larger than it was pre-2000, and that is largely due to the fact that it is now a pleasant experience for users. Shopping carts utilize advanced backend databases, browsing and sorting/filtering items dynamically in real-time is done with modern javascript libraries and advanced CSS (compared to 2000). You can use all the databases and dynamic code you want, while still being IE3 compatible. Sorting and filtering is done with form style techniques anyway(ebay, most online shops etc), which can be made compatible. and you can use whatever LAMP/microsoft backend or whatever you want, that is no problem at all, you just need it to generate compatible html code. | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
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