EPT
http://go.bloomberg.com/political-capital/2012-10-18/obama-romney-at-charity-dinner-more-sons-than-jobs/
President Obama Re-Elected - Page 900
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Hey guys! We'll be closing this thread shortly, but we will make an American politics megathread where we can continue the discussions in here. The new thread can be found here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=383301 | ||
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ziggurat
Canada847 Posts
http://go.bloomberg.com/political-capital/2012-10-18/obama-romney-at-charity-dinner-more-sons-than-jobs/ | ||
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jdseemoreglass
United States3773 Posts
On October 19 2012 11:42 sam!zdat wrote: sure can get elected proposing irresponsible tax cuts, however Welcome to Democracy. Don't worry, democracy + selfishness will revert to socialism eventually. | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
On October 19 2012 11:49 jdseemoreglass wrote: Welcome to Democracy. Don't worry, democracy + selfishness will revert to socialism eventually. what? | ||
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jdseemoreglass
United States3773 Posts
On October 19 2012 11:49 oneofthem wrote: yes, health professionals are highly trained and responsible when they are acting like professional caretakers. maybe double the # of doctors. the VA health system is huge and pretty great. it's a mini nationalized healthcare system with its own hospitals and stuff. I'm a veteran myself. Calling VA health care "great" is a huge overstatement. In active duty I actually couldn't stand the health care, they know they have a monopoly on your care and treat you as such. Any benefits it actually has is due to the fact that veterans are less than 10% of the population and can pool resources from the other 90%, an advantage that a nationalized system wouldn't have. | ||
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TotalBalanceSC2
Canada475 Posts
On a sidenote CNN has sunk to new lows with this "Reddit troll exposed" story I am watching right now. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On October 19 2012 11:53 jdseemoreglass wrote: I'm a veteran myself. Calling VA health care "great" is a huge overstatement. In active duty I actually couldn't stand the health care, they know they have a monopoly on your care and treat you as such. Any benefits it actually has is due to the fact that veterans are less than 10% of the population and can pool resources from the other 90%, an advantage that a nationalized system wouldn't have. i don't know about your personal experience, but the quality of care measurements used in the studies are not very controversial. maybe the nurses act a bit mean, but hey, the doctor will at least give you the treatment you actually need. as for resource pooling, not sure what you mean. the VA system has lower cost and also lower rate of cost increase. "Government health care" is often characterized as wasteful and inefficient. But here too the VA's experience suggests otherwise. In 2007, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) released a report (PDF) that concluded that the VA is doing a much better job of controlling health care costs than the private sector. After adjusting for a changing case mix as younger veterans return from Iraq and Afghanistan, the CBO calculated that the VA's average health care cost per enrollee grew by roughly 1.7% from 1999 to 2005, an annual growth rate of 0.3%. During the same time period, Medicare's per capita costs grew by 29.4 %, an annual growth rate of 4.4 %. In the private insurance market, premiums for family coverage jumped by more than 70% (PDF), according to the Kaiser Family Foundation. | ||
Souma
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On October 19 2012 11:53 jdseemoreglass wrote: I'm a veteran myself. Calling VA health care "great" is a huge overstatement. In active duty I actually couldn't stand the health care, they know they have a monopoly on your care and treat you as such. Any benefits it actually has is due to the fact that veterans are less than 10% of the population and can pool resources from the other 90%, an advantage that a nationalized system wouldn't have. Can you do me a favor? When, eventually, we do get single-payer healthcare for the nation and it decreases overall healthcare costs and decreases our deficit because Medicaid won't be a drain on our government anymore, can you vote Democrat for the rest of your life? | ||
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nevermindthebollocks
United States116 Posts
On October 19 2012 11:47 theaxis12 wrote: I just found this really nice fact checking portal for the second debate, check it out at:Link I think that the false doubling the deficit claim that Romney was so fond of in both debates was the most interesting one. I can't believe he can stand up there and lie like that in front of millions of people and get away with it. can you tell us? I can't really watch that now. or the time for that one thing at least and maye i can take 5 minutes and just so i don't have to do another post, for people who haven't voted yet please see http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=330491¤tpage=879#17569 it's only 12 people so far and I know there are more. obama's only got double and it should be higher! | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
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jdseemoreglass
United States3773 Posts
On October 19 2012 11:57 Souma wrote: Can you do me a favor? When, eventually, we do get single-payer healthcare for the nation and it decreases overall healthcare costs and decreases our deficit because Medicaid won't be a drain on our government anymore, can you vote Democrat for the rest of your life? No, sorry. And that's because I know the reasons for the high costs of care in the first place. The reasons why a surgery which costs $8,000 in India costs $80,000 in the US. Hint: It has nothing to do with a "free market." | ||
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Souma
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On October 19 2012 12:02 jdseemoreglass wrote: No, sorry. And that's because I know the reasons for the high costs of care in the first place. The reasons why a surgery which costs $8,000 in India costs $80,000 in the US. Hint: It has nothing to do with a "free market." Well if it costs $80,000, it's not very free.  So you have a point! | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
On October 19 2012 12:02 jdseemoreglass wrote: No, sorry. And that's because I know the reasons for the high costs of care in the first place. The reasons why a surgery which costs $8,000 in India costs $80,000 in the US. Hint: It has nothing to do with a "free market." You do understand that there are reasons why things cost different amounts in different countries that don't have to do with free market Y/N (check one) right edit: for example, a random totally unreliable website says that in "India" (which is one homogenous place) a meal for two in a midrange restaurant costs just under nine dollars. Damn that government intervention in the restaurant industry, jacking up our dinner-for-two prices!!! edit: it's a three course meal (edit: also it's indian food which is better than american food) | ||
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jdseemoreglass
United States3773 Posts
On October 19 2012 12:06 sam!zdat wrote: You do understand that there are reasons why things cost different amounts in different countries that don't have to do with free market Y/N (check one) right You just repeated exactly what I said. But I get your implication.... Though, there's nothing natural about 10 times or more the cost. Here we are at artificial gravity again. | ||
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TheFrankOne
United States667 Posts
On October 19 2012 11:31 jdseemoreglass wrote: I never said he would be great for the deficit, I simply said likely better than Obama. What evidence has anyone presented so far that Obama would do a thing for the deficit? So far these are the points that have been brought up. 1) We shouldn't even reduce deficit because EU austerity = bad. 2) He spent more money on stimulus which probably helped the economy, we think. 3) The wars were being scaled back so we will give him credit for that inexplicably. So yes, I do think Romney will be better, with regards to the deficit at least. Can you please provide some evidence that reducing the deficit is a good thing right now? Since EU austerity = bad, and particularly since the UK has managed to have a nice flat or dipping GDP curve for several quarters, (best comparison because they have their own currency, control their own monetary policy) The only time the bond market has shown any trepidation is when Congress decided to play brinkmanship with the whole goddamn economy in the debt ceiling debate, which I blame the Republicans for, it was political showmanship with a dangerous risk attached to it. I believe when you run out of standard monetary stimulus, fiscal stimulus is good. Can you refute that in any way? I honestly don't think Obama will do much to address the deficit in the next couple years and believe that is a good thing even if the increase to top earners would probably have little effect on the economy, Republicans will want an arm and a leg in spending cuts so fuck it, hopefully the rich keep their low rates too because these people can't agree on anything. | ||
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jdseemoreglass
United States3773 Posts
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BluePanther
United States2776 Posts
On October 19 2012 11:49 jdseemoreglass wrote: Welcome to Democracy. Don't worry, democracy + selfishness will revert to socialism eventually. if so, why do you try to convince people otherwise? | ||
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jdseemoreglass
United States3773 Posts
On October 19 2012 12:22 BluePanther wrote: if so, why do you try to convince people otherwise? I've never said socialism isn't inevitable. I have said that I think it's the wrong direction. Those aren't mutually exclusive in my mind. Unless I'm missing your point. | ||
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TheFrankOne
United States667 Posts
On October 19 2012 12:20 jdseemoreglass wrote: There is a difference between pushing through a recession and fostering excessive government induced artificial growth, which establishes a series of bubbles, dot com bubble, financial bubble, housing bubble... When you have artificial growth, a period of flat or dipping GDP growth is not only inevitable, it is necessary. There is a fine line between recession stimulus and bubble creation, and we leap over it every single time. Can you expand on this a bit? Give me some sources to back up your gov spending caused these bubbles claim? | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
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