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President Obama Re-Elected - Page 577

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Hey guys! We'll be closing this thread shortly, but we will make an American politics megathread where we can continue the discussions in here.

The new thread can be found here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=383301
coverpunch
Profile Joined December 2011
United States2093 Posts
September 22 2012 15:14 GMT
#11521
Beyond the insistence that this would be ineffectual, I don't think there's been any attempt to parse out WHY Republicans are trying to do this.

Here's a similar story about the IRS requiring Social Security numbers for claiming dependents. When they did that, 7.2 MILLION children disappeared from the tax rolls, nearly 10% of all dependents. It looks like Republicans imagine the same thing would happen if they required ID at polls, that thousands of people who are dead or fake or ineligible wouldn't be able to vote.
JinDesu
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3990 Posts
September 22 2012 15:24 GMT
#11522
On September 23 2012 00:14 coverpunch wrote:
Beyond the insistence that this would be ineffectual, I don't think there's been any attempt to parse out WHY Republicans are trying to do this.

Here's a similar story about the IRS requiring Social Security numbers for claiming dependents. When they did that, 7.2 MILLION children disappeared from the tax rolls, nearly 10% of all dependents. It looks like Republicans imagine the same thing would happen if they required ID at polls, that thousands of people who are dead or fake or ineligible wouldn't be able to vote.


But the issue I think is that most studies have returned that there are so few voter fraud cases, and so there's no evidence really for mass voter fraud to warrant doing this RIGHT before a major election. And I agree with Doublereed that doing this is fine - if implemented over a long term period.

I also like what I suggested before - make it free, and give it support. I don't mind voter ID laws. Just make it so everyone can get an ID, and make it somewhat efficient.
Yargh
0mar
Profile Joined February 2010
United States567 Posts
September 22 2012 15:26 GMT
#11523
On September 22 2012 13:45 sam!zdat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2012 13:43 0mar wrote:
If the US's system wasn't so fubar'ed, I'd vote Jill Stein in an instant. However, that's basically voting for Romney because she has zero chance of making any impact at all, so I'm voting for Obama.


What state do you live in?


Illinois. It's going to go Obama, but I'd rather show my support to the President than throw my vote away. Under no conceivable circumstance will Jill Stein get that 4% vote to become eligible for federal funds and nowadays, that doesn't even matter since 90% of politicking happens due to SuperPACs.

Citizens United killed third parties even further, since beforehand, campaigns were limited to either federal funds or a massive outcropping of outsider support (due to cap of 5000 dollar donations per individual). Now, anyone with sufficient money can bankroll a campaign by themselves, marginalizing 3rd parties even further.
silynxer
Profile Joined April 2006
Germany439 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-22 15:34:54
September 22 2012 15:30 GMT
#11524
On September 23 2012 00:14 coverpunch wrote:
Beyond the insistence that this would be ineffectual, I don't think there's been any attempt to parse out WHY Republicans are trying to do this.

Here's a similar story about the IRS requiring Social Security numbers for claiming dependents. When they did that, 7.2 MILLION children disappeared from the tax rolls, nearly 10% of all dependents. It looks like Republicans imagine the same thing would happen if they required ID at polls, that thousands of people who are dead or fake or ineligible wouldn't be able to vote.


Perhaps the House Majority Leader of Pennsylvania, Mike Turzai, can shed some light on WHY Republicans are trying to do this:


Seriously, this shows again that fiscal conservatism will be abandoned by pretty much everybody (including most Republicans in this thread) as soon as it clashes with the party line.
rogzardo
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
610 Posts
September 22 2012 15:33 GMT
#11525
^^ Turzai answering all the tough questions on the issue. My man.
DoubleReed
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4130 Posts
September 22 2012 15:45 GMT
#11526
On September 23 2012 00:04 JinDesu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2012 20:42 Souma wrote:
Another foreign policy victory for the Obama Administration?

The US says it has lifted a ban on visits by New Zealand warships to US defence and coast guard bases around the world, further thawing relations after a 26-year stand-off on nuclear issues.

Leon Panetta, the US defence secretary, made the announcement in Auckland during a visit to the country on Friday.

The visit - a first by a Pentagon chief in 30 years - signals a new era of US-New Zealand defence links breached in the mid-1980s, when Wellington declared itself nuclear-free and barred its ports to nuclear warships.

For the first time since the suspension of the ANZUS Treaty in 1986, the US will allow individual visits by Royal New Zealand Navy ships to US defence department or coast-guard facilities in the US and around the world, Panetta said.

"These changes make it easier for our militaries to engage in discussions on security issues and to hold co-operative engagements that increase our capacity to tackle common challenges," he said.

Panetta said the US would lift restrictions on military exercises and facilitate more talks with New Zealand even though the country maintained its long-held nuclear-free stance.

He said the US and New Zealand would work together despite lingering "differences of opinion in some limited areas".

'Very, very good' ties

While both countries acknowledged the improvement in relations and defence ties, Jonathan Coleman, New Zealand's defence minister, said his country had an independent foreign policy and that its anti-nuclear ban was not negotiable.

"I don't think that we should get too hung up about trying to turn the clock back to pre-1986 because the reality is that the relationship is very, very good," Coleman said following their meeting.

New Zealand has a small contingent of troops fighting with US and NATO troops in Afghanistan.

During his visit Panetta was scheduled to meet other senior leaders to explore deeper US military engagement with New Zealand as the US rebalances its forces to the Asia-Pacific as part of a new military strategy.

In July, the US and New Zealand agreed to hold regular high-level talks and to co-operate on maritime security, counter-terrorism, and peacekeeping operations.

Members of the US Marine Corps trained in New Zealand earlier this year, and New Zealand's navy took part in the multi-nation Rimpac maritime exercise ships in July.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2012/09/20129216933564532.html


I never even knew we had frosty relations with New Zealand. Of all places, New Zealand!

The stories of the pro-American Libyan riots is very good to hear - and it's heartwarming to see the signs "Ambassador Chris was our friend". Apparently he was VERY well loved, and his death really polarized quite a bit of the population.


Yea, Libya is ironically one of the most pro-American countries in the region. Egypt is where relations are seriously breaking down and America is amazingly unpopular.
sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
September 22 2012 15:46 GMT
#11527
On September 23 2012 00:26 0mar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2012 13:45 sam!zdat wrote:
On September 22 2012 13:43 0mar wrote:
If the US's system wasn't so fubar'ed, I'd vote Jill Stein in an instant. However, that's basically voting for Romney because she has zero chance of making any impact at all, so I'm voting for Obama.


What state do you live in?


Illinois. It's going to go Obama, but I'd rather show my support to the President than throw my vote away.


But you've already said that you want to vote for Stein, so isn't a rubberstamp vote for Obama throwing it away?
shikata ga nai
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22702 Posts
September 22 2012 16:16 GMT
#11528
On September 23 2012 00:45 DoubleReed wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 00:04 JinDesu wrote:
On September 22 2012 20:42 Souma wrote:
Another foreign policy victory for the Obama Administration?

The US says it has lifted a ban on visits by New Zealand warships to US defence and coast guard bases around the world, further thawing relations after a 26-year stand-off on nuclear issues.

Leon Panetta, the US defence secretary, made the announcement in Auckland during a visit to the country on Friday.

The visit - a first by a Pentagon chief in 30 years - signals a new era of US-New Zealand defence links breached in the mid-1980s, when Wellington declared itself nuclear-free and barred its ports to nuclear warships.

For the first time since the suspension of the ANZUS Treaty in 1986, the US will allow individual visits by Royal New Zealand Navy ships to US defence department or coast-guard facilities in the US and around the world, Panetta said.

"These changes make it easier for our militaries to engage in discussions on security issues and to hold co-operative engagements that increase our capacity to tackle common challenges," he said.

Panetta said the US would lift restrictions on military exercises and facilitate more talks with New Zealand even though the country maintained its long-held nuclear-free stance.

He said the US and New Zealand would work together despite lingering "differences of opinion in some limited areas".

'Very, very good' ties

While both countries acknowledged the improvement in relations and defence ties, Jonathan Coleman, New Zealand's defence minister, said his country had an independent foreign policy and that its anti-nuclear ban was not negotiable.

"I don't think that we should get too hung up about trying to turn the clock back to pre-1986 because the reality is that the relationship is very, very good," Coleman said following their meeting.

New Zealand has a small contingent of troops fighting with US and NATO troops in Afghanistan.

During his visit Panetta was scheduled to meet other senior leaders to explore deeper US military engagement with New Zealand as the US rebalances its forces to the Asia-Pacific as part of a new military strategy.

In July, the US and New Zealand agreed to hold regular high-level talks and to co-operate on maritime security, counter-terrorism, and peacekeeping operations.

Members of the US Marine Corps trained in New Zealand earlier this year, and New Zealand's navy took part in the multi-nation Rimpac maritime exercise ships in July.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2012/09/20129216933564532.html


I never even knew we had frosty relations with New Zealand. Of all places, New Zealand!

The stories of the pro-American Libyan riots is very good to hear - and it's heartwarming to see the signs "Ambassador Chris was our friend". Apparently he was VERY well loved, and his death really polarized quite a bit of the population.


Yea, Libya is ironically one of the most pro-American countries in the region. Egypt is where relations are seriously breaking down and America is amazingly unpopular.


Can you blame Egypt with all the suffering they have faced at the hands of an American puppet?
Heck as they went out into the streets and bled for there freedom the white house was still trying to find a way to keep there puppet in place.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
JinDesu
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3990 Posts
September 22 2012 16:34 GMT
#11529
On September 23 2012 01:16 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 00:45 DoubleReed wrote:
On September 23 2012 00:04 JinDesu wrote:
On September 22 2012 20:42 Souma wrote:
Another foreign policy victory for the Obama Administration?

The US says it has lifted a ban on visits by New Zealand warships to US defence and coast guard bases around the world, further thawing relations after a 26-year stand-off on nuclear issues.

Leon Panetta, the US defence secretary, made the announcement in Auckland during a visit to the country on Friday.

The visit - a first by a Pentagon chief in 30 years - signals a new era of US-New Zealand defence links breached in the mid-1980s, when Wellington declared itself nuclear-free and barred its ports to nuclear warships.

For the first time since the suspension of the ANZUS Treaty in 1986, the US will allow individual visits by Royal New Zealand Navy ships to US defence department or coast-guard facilities in the US and around the world, Panetta said.

"These changes make it easier for our militaries to engage in discussions on security issues and to hold co-operative engagements that increase our capacity to tackle common challenges," he said.

Panetta said the US would lift restrictions on military exercises and facilitate more talks with New Zealand even though the country maintained its long-held nuclear-free stance.

He said the US and New Zealand would work together despite lingering "differences of opinion in some limited areas".

'Very, very good' ties

While both countries acknowledged the improvement in relations and defence ties, Jonathan Coleman, New Zealand's defence minister, said his country had an independent foreign policy and that its anti-nuclear ban was not negotiable.

"I don't think that we should get too hung up about trying to turn the clock back to pre-1986 because the reality is that the relationship is very, very good," Coleman said following their meeting.

New Zealand has a small contingent of troops fighting with US and NATO troops in Afghanistan.

During his visit Panetta was scheduled to meet other senior leaders to explore deeper US military engagement with New Zealand as the US rebalances its forces to the Asia-Pacific as part of a new military strategy.

In July, the US and New Zealand agreed to hold regular high-level talks and to co-operate on maritime security, counter-terrorism, and peacekeeping operations.

Members of the US Marine Corps trained in New Zealand earlier this year, and New Zealand's navy took part in the multi-nation Rimpac maritime exercise ships in July.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2012/09/20129216933564532.html


I never even knew we had frosty relations with New Zealand. Of all places, New Zealand!

The stories of the pro-American Libyan riots is very good to hear - and it's heartwarming to see the signs "Ambassador Chris was our friend". Apparently he was VERY well loved, and his death really polarized quite a bit of the population.


Yea, Libya is ironically one of the most pro-American countries in the region. Egypt is where relations are seriously breaking down and America is amazingly unpopular.


Can you blame Egypt with all the suffering they have faced at the hands of an American puppet?
Heck as they went out into the streets and bled for there freedom the white house was still trying to find a way to keep there puppet in place.


Well, I hope it doesn't deteriorate further. Karzai seems to be pretty reasonable with Obama.
Yargh
madsweepslol
Profile Joined February 2010
161 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-22 17:07:05
September 22 2012 17:06 GMT
#11530
Well with taxes back in the news cycle, of course the issue of Mitt's investments comes up again. Mittens on blind trusts, then and now:


You just KNOW the last few weeks of this election are gonna be filled with ads of Mitt's monumental flips.
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
September 22 2012 17:16 GMT
#11531
On September 23 2012 00:14 coverpunch wrote:
Beyond the insistence that this would be ineffectual, I don't think there's been any attempt to parse out WHY Republicans are trying to do this.

Here's a similar story about the IRS requiring Social Security numbers for claiming dependents. When they did that, 7.2 MILLION children disappeared from the tax rolls, nearly 10% of all dependents. It looks like Republicans imagine the same thing would happen if they required ID at polls, that thousands of people who are dead or fake or ineligible wouldn't be able to vote.

The amount of coordination and man power it would take for people to impersonate a voter and make a difference is absurd. There are tons of phony registrations, that's for sure, but they don't show up to vote (because they don't exist etc.). However, voter fraud is very possible with lockbox electronic voting machines and absentee ballots. Problems in that area of the election have the possibility of turning thousands of votes for a candidate in a single region, as opposed to a potential handful.
ey215
Profile Joined June 2010
United States546 Posts
September 22 2012 17:18 GMT
#11532
For those interested in the conversation about how the media covers elections these days:

http://www.politico.com/arena/archive/are-campaign-reporters-behind-the-curve.html
Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-22 20:32:55
September 22 2012 20:32 GMT
#11533
On September 23 2012 00:24 JinDesu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 00:14 coverpunch wrote:
Beyond the insistence that this would be ineffectual, I don't think there's been any attempt to parse out WHY Republicans are trying to do this.

Here's a similar story about the IRS requiring Social Security numbers for claiming dependents. When they did that, 7.2 MILLION children disappeared from the tax rolls, nearly 10% of all dependents. It looks like Republicans imagine the same thing would happen if they required ID at polls, that thousands of people who are dead or fake or ineligible wouldn't be able to vote.


But the issue I think is that most studies have returned that there are so few voter fraud cases, and so there's no evidence really for mass voter fraud to warrant doing this RIGHT before a major election. And I agree with Doublereed that doing this is fine - if implemented over a long term period.

I also like what I suggested before - make it free, and give it support. I don't mind voter ID laws. Just make it so everyone can get an ID, and make it somewhat efficient.


In British Columbia, voters must bring an ID with their current address. If your ID doesn't have your address on it, you can bring something like your social insurance card (has you name but no address), plus a piece of mail from the power company, your paystub, your tax return --- anything which has your current address and name. Just supplement any government issued ID with a document with your current mailing address.

BOOM. I just saved the US millions of dollars.

Jaaaaasper
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States10225 Posts
September 22 2012 20:37 GMT
#11534
On September 23 2012 05:32 Defacer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 00:24 JinDesu wrote:
On September 23 2012 00:14 coverpunch wrote:
Beyond the insistence that this would be ineffectual, I don't think there's been any attempt to parse out WHY Republicans are trying to do this.

Here's a similar story about the IRS requiring Social Security numbers for claiming dependents. When they did that, 7.2 MILLION children disappeared from the tax rolls, nearly 10% of all dependents. It looks like Republicans imagine the same thing would happen if they required ID at polls, that thousands of people who are dead or fake or ineligible wouldn't be able to vote.


But the issue I think is that most studies have returned that there are so few voter fraud cases, and so there's no evidence really for mass voter fraud to warrant doing this RIGHT before a major election. And I agree with Doublereed that doing this is fine - if implemented over a long term period.

I also like what I suggested before - make it free, and give it support. I don't mind voter ID laws. Just make it so everyone can get an ID, and make it somewhat efficient.


In British Columbia, voters must bring an ID with their current address. If your ID doesn't have your address on it, you can bring something like your social insurance card (has you name but no address), plus a piece of mail from the power company, your paystub, your tax return --- anything which has your current address and name. Just supplement any government issued ID with a document with your current mailing address.

BOOM. I just saved the US millions of dollars.


Assuming of course, that the people behind the laws want this to be easy.
Hey do you want to hear a joke? Chinese production value. | I thought he had a aegis- Ayesee | When did 7ing mad last have a good game, 2012?
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44439 Posts
September 22 2012 20:52 GMT
#11535
On September 23 2012 05:37 Jaaaaasper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 05:32 Defacer wrote:
On September 23 2012 00:24 JinDesu wrote:
On September 23 2012 00:14 coverpunch wrote:
Beyond the insistence that this would be ineffectual, I don't think there's been any attempt to parse out WHY Republicans are trying to do this.

Here's a similar story about the IRS requiring Social Security numbers for claiming dependents. When they did that, 7.2 MILLION children disappeared from the tax rolls, nearly 10% of all dependents. It looks like Republicans imagine the same thing would happen if they required ID at polls, that thousands of people who are dead or fake or ineligible wouldn't be able to vote.


But the issue I think is that most studies have returned that there are so few voter fraud cases, and so there's no evidence really for mass voter fraud to warrant doing this RIGHT before a major election. And I agree with Doublereed that doing this is fine - if implemented over a long term period.

I also like what I suggested before - make it free, and give it support. I don't mind voter ID laws. Just make it so everyone can get an ID, and make it somewhat efficient.


In British Columbia, voters must bring an ID with their current address. If your ID doesn't have your address on it, you can bring something like your social insurance card (has you name but no address), plus a piece of mail from the power company, your paystub, your tax return --- anything which has your current address and name. Just supplement any government issued ID with a document with your current mailing address.

BOOM. I just saved the US millions of dollars.


Assuming of course, that the people behind the laws want this to be easy.

It's not about making it easy for the common voter, it's about making it hard for the secret underground networks of millions of voters, all of whom are voting multiple times in order to collectively change the result of a national election with an electorate in the hundreds of millions. You have to remember, these guys are organised, they have discipline, they are incredibly stealthy. They've managed to recruit a colossal army of members and taught them how to cheat the voting system without a single person they attempted to recruit going to the police or letting it slip what they're doing. What's more, with both democrats and republicans casting phoney votes it's turning into an arms face between the two underground networks as each tries to commit more electoral fraud than the other. If something isn't done then this election could see billions of votes cast, swamping the system and bringing down the government. We need to act now.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
September 22 2012 21:03 GMT
#11536
On September 23 2012 02:16 aksfjh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 00:14 coverpunch wrote:
Beyond the insistence that this would be ineffectual, I don't think there's been any attempt to parse out WHY Republicans are trying to do this.

Here's a similar story about the IRS requiring Social Security numbers for claiming dependents. When they did that, 7.2 MILLION children disappeared from the tax rolls, nearly 10% of all dependents. It looks like Republicans imagine the same thing would happen if they required ID at polls, that thousands of people who are dead or fake or ineligible wouldn't be able to vote.

The amount of coordination and man power it would take for people to impersonate a voter and make a difference is absurd. There are tons of phony registrations, that's for sure, but they don't show up to vote (because they don't exist etc.). However, voter fraud is very possible with lockbox electronic voting machines and absentee ballots. Problems in that area of the election have the possibility of turning thousands of votes for a candidate in a single region, as opposed to a potential handful.


The best thing about voter ID laws is the complete role reversal between parties. Republicans are arguing for an aggressive new regulation and Democrats are arguing that the costs outweigh the benefits. Both sides could learn something from this.
Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
September 22 2012 21:10 GMT
#11537
Sigh ... spin, spin away you desperate little man ...

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mckaycoppins/how-romney-packed-the-univision-forum
MIAMI, Fla. — Mitt Romney's campaign took a hard line with the Spanish-language network Univision, making last-minute demands in the run-up to last week's town hall that helped insure his success in the forum, sources familiar with the broadcast told BuzzFeed.

When the Republican took his place Wednesday night in the first of two back-to-back candidate forums televised on the mega-network, he was greeted by an adoring, raucous crowd that cheered his every word, and booed many of the moderators' questions. The next night, President Obama was treated to stone cold silence from the audience as he was aggressively grilled on his lackluster immigration record.

The contrast was widely noted by observers who watched both forums — and it was glaring enough to evoke some boasting from the Romney campaign in the immediate aftermath.

"These forums are going to be watched by more Hispanics than watched the conventions," said Alberto Martinez, a Florida-based Romney adviser. "I think [Romney] did an amazing job, and I think it was pretty clear there wasn't the same excitement for President Obama."

But the enthusiasm gap may have been an optical illusion formed by a series of last-minute demands by the Romney campaign, according to Maria Elena Salinas, one of the Univision anchors who moderated the forums.

Salinas told BuzzFeed that tickets for each forum were divided between the network, the respective campaigns, and the University of Miami (which hosted the events) — and she said both campaigns initially agreed to keep the audience comprised mostly of students, in keeping with the events' education theme.

But after exhausting the few conservative groups on campus, the Romney camp realized there weren't enough sympathetic students to fill the stands on their night — so they told the network and university that if they weren't given an exemption to the students-only rule, they might have to "reschedule."

The organizers relented. One Democrat with ties to the Obama campaign noted that Rudy Fernandez, the university official charged with coordinating the forums, is a member of Romney's Hispanic steering committee. Fernandez did not respond to BuzzFeed's questions about whether he gave preferential treatment to Romney's campaign.

In any case, Romney's team was allowed to bus in rowdy activists from around southern Florida in order to fill the extra seats at their town hall.

Obama's campaign, meanwhile, stuck to the original parameters and allowed a large chunk of the tickets to be distributed to interested students on campus. The result was a quiet, well-behaved crowd — and a lot of no-shows. Minutes before Obama's forum was to begin, producers began frantically directing university staff and volunteers to sit in the empty seats.

Salinas said both candidates ultimately had partisan crowds at their forums, but that Romney's non-student activists ignored instructions to hold their applause.

"We were a little bit thrown because it was supposed to be a TV show, it wasn't a rally," Salinas said of the outspoken Romney supporters. "It was a little bit of disrespect for us."

That wouldn't be the last demand from the campaign: Romney himself almost pulled the plug on the whole thing minutes before the broadcast, Salinas said.

While introducing Romney at the top of the broadcast, Salinas's co-anchor, Jorge Ramos, noted that the Republican candidate had agreed to give the network 35 minutes, and that Obama had agreed to a full hour the next night. Ramos then invited the audience to welcome Romney to the stage — but the candidate didn't materialize.

"It was a very awkward moment, believe me," Salinas said.

Apparently, Romney took issue with the anchors beginning the broadcast that way, said Salinas, and he refused to go on stage until they re-taped the introduction. (One Republican present at the taping said Romney "threw a tantrum.")

"Our president of news was talking to the Romney campaign and negotiating it," Salinas said. "But at that point, you can't really argue with that. The candidate is there, everyone is in their seats, the show must go on. There's a limit to how much we can object to it."

The compromise reached was that the anchors would note the discrepancy in the candidates' time commitments at the end of the broadcast. But Salinas said, by then, the crowd was cheering so loudly that they drowned out the anchors' words.


Pffft. Rich kids.
Jaaaaasper
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States10225 Posts
September 22 2012 21:16 GMT
#11538
Does romney even reailse that all of this stuff will get out? He just acting like he can do stuff like the above post and not get called on it. This isn't the first time, and I doubt it will be the last. Romney needs to work on either not doing stuff that makes him look really bad, or do a much better job of hiding it.
Hey do you want to hear a joke? Chinese production value. | I thought he had a aegis- Ayesee | When did 7ing mad last have a good game, 2012?
IIMARCII
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada33 Posts
September 22 2012 21:21 GMT
#11539
I don't even think Romney has any chances to get more than 25% of the votes.
Feartheguru
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada1334 Posts
September 22 2012 21:30 GMT
#11540
On September 23 2012 06:21 IIMARCII wrote:
I don't even think Romney has any chances to get more than 25% of the votes.


You're severely overestimating Americans' logic.
Don't sweat the petty stuff, don't pet the sweaty stuff.
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