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On November 08 2012 08:53 Joedaddy wrote:
My wife is teaching an English class to some local immigrants two nights a week. One of the most surprising things she said was that her class honestly believed that if Romney were elected that they would all be deported. I found this particularly disturbing for a couple of different reasons.
1. The Republican party has got to do a better job getting their message out. We need to find a way to overcome the media bias (fox included) and educate our newest citizens on where we stand on a lot of social issues.
2. The fact that people who are so uneducated are allowed to make decisions about the future of our nation is concerning. Hold out your judgement and hear me out. No one is going to hire the homeless guy off the street to handle your personal finances, right? That doesn't make you an evil bigot, it means you have common sense. I want all people to be able to vote, but I think its more important than ever that people understand what they are voting for and why.
I sincerely believe that people should be required to go through some kind of voter education class before being able to vote. Not so that we can limit who does and does not vote, but to ensure that people are making informed decisions about things that affect our nation and ultimately the world around us.
There's the uneducated voting on both sides... but there are also a good amount of educated who know what they are voting for. It's usually swing voters who decide the election, and many swing voters understand what they are looking for in a candidate.
Also, voter education class isn't as good of an idea as it seems. If people have to pass a test to vote, it's writing off the voices of many people. Even if they aren't educated, I believe their voice has a right to be heard. We can't start censoring people like that. They used to have literacy tests in the south to suppress the african american vote. Another test like that could be used to suppress anyones right to vote.
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On November 08 2012 08:55 Zaqwert wrote:
The single mothers, hispanics, blacks, and hipsters have spoken.
This country's future is in good hands.
White men, rise up! Like a glorious Phoenix coming out of Arizona.
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Wait so the Republican Party isn't going to support deportation over naturalization anymore? When did this start? Ten minutes after the election was over or twenty?
The problem with sending out the message is actions speak tenfold over crappy commercials and blowhard pundits. Republicans ain't so kind to dem foreigners.
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On November 08 2012 09:00 FeUerFlieGe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 08:53 Joedaddy wrote:
My wife is teaching an English class to some local immigrants two nights a week. One of the most surprising things she said was that her class honestly believed that if Romney were elected that they would all be deported. I found this particularly disturbing for a couple of different reasons.
1. The Republican party has got to do a better job getting their message out. We need to find a way to overcome the media bias (fox included) and educate our newest citizens on where we stand on a lot of social issues.
2. The fact that people who are so uneducated are allowed to make decisions about the future of our nation is concerning. Hold out your judgement and hear me out. No one is going to hire the homeless guy off the street to handle your personal finances, right? That doesn't make you an evil bigot, it means you have common sense. I want all people to be able to vote, but I think its more important than ever that people understand what they are voting for and why.
I sincerely believe that people should be required to go through some kind of voter education class before being able to vote. Not so that we can limit who does and does not vote, but to ensure that people are making informed decisions about things that affect our nation and ultimately the world around us. There's the uneducated voting on both sides... but there are also a good amount of educated who know what they are voting for. It's usually swing voters who decide the election, and many swing voters understand what they are looking for in a candidate. Also, voter education class isn't as good of an idea as it seems. If people have to pass a test to vote, it's writing off the voices of many people. Even if they aren't educated, I believe their voice has a right to be heard. We can't start censoring people like that. They used to have literacy tests in the south to suppress the african american vote. Another test like that could be used to suppress anyones right to vote.
voting isn't necessarily about electing the best officials. It's about ensuring the dignity of every citizen in the nation, allowing them to have a say in their government. Even if what they have to say is dumb.
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On November 08 2012 08:53 Joedaddy wrote:
My wife is teaching an English class to some local immigrants two nights a week. One of the most surprising things she said was that her class honestly believed that if Romney were elected that they would all be deported. I found this particularly disturbing for a couple of different reasons.
1. The Republican party has got to do a better job getting their message out. We need to find a way to overcome the media bias (fox included) and educate our newest citizens on where we stand on a lot of social issues.
2. The fact that people who are so uneducated are allowed to make decisions about the future of our nation is concerning. Hold out your judgement and hear me out. No one is going to hire the homeless guy off the street to handle your personal finances, right? That doesn't make you an evil bigot, it means you have common sense. I want all people to be able to vote, but I think its more important than ever that people understand what they are voting for and why.
I sincerely believe that people should be required to go through some kind of voter education class before being able to vote. Not so that we can limit who does and does not vote, but to ensure that people are making informed decisions about things that affect our nation and ultimately the world around us.
that implies the thought that the majority or for the sake of argument even an ever so slight minority of voters other than those who don't know what's going have an idea about what's going on other than the grand "scheme" of things and why things are being discussed.
Seems unlikely to me 
Do you really think you're smart enough to explain / understand (everything?) that is being discussed in politics yourself while there's a lot of (hopefully) smart people discussing those issues to the extend we're seeing in politics?
I can only speak for myself and I've surely got my opionions, I might have some topics I'd consider to be pretty certain about as I'm interested in those myself but in the grand scheme? No idea wether Plan-A, Plan-B or Plan-C (insert whatever you want) is the best way to do it other than my (probaby flawed) common sense.
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Uneducated voting is not realy a problem.
If we would asume that 90% of the population voted uneducated and completely random, the remaining 10% educated ones will still get their favorit elected with more then 99% certainty.
Problem might be that uneducated voters do not vote completely random,but if they dont vote completely random then they are at least somewhat educated.
Annway, to obama
Gratz and make the best of it
America needs it.
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On November 08 2012 06:50 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 06:48 Souma wrote:
Crap, Prop 37 didn't pass in California.
sigh, I guess there are worse things than not having labels for genetically-modified foods.
... or are there!? It shouldn't have passed. The entire movement against GMOs has 0 scientific backing. For how much we democrats give crap to Republicans for being anti-science, our obsession with GMOs is really embarrassing.
It's not about making it harder for GMO's or denying the science of it.
It's about people's rights to know what they eat. People being more informed is always preferable.
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I wrote a poem describing my feelings about the election outcome:
Obama, as black as Mitt Romney's evil rich heart,
I knew you would win, dawg, I knew from the start,
Your prowess on social policies is a must,
Your use of government to solve economic turmoil I trust.
Mitt Romney's all mad bro, his ears; they steam,
Who better than a black man to handle debt, naw mean?
You take good care of the ladies, like with lilly ledbetter.
While Romney sits idly in his white boy esque sweater,
In a country where companies save a dime by hiring illegals living in squalor,
Women don't have jobs when they do the same work for 75cents on the dollar.
Obama, I worship you for all that you've done,
Your healthcare plan will pay for the delivery of my son.
I'm naming that nigga barrack, but not after you,
It's after a floating OP terran building in the game sc2.
Stay Fresh Big O
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On November 08 2012 09:00 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 08:53 Joedaddy wrote:
My wife is teaching an English class to some local immigrants two nights a week. One of the most surprising things she said was that her class honestly believed that if Romney were elected that they would all be deported. I found this particularly disturbing for a couple of different reasons.
1. The Republican party has got to do a better job getting their message out. We need to find a way to overcome the media bias (fox included) and educate our newest citizens on where we stand on a lot of social issues.
2. The fact that people who are so uneducated are allowed to make decisions about the future of our nation is concerning. Hold out your judgement and hear me out. No one is going to hire the homeless guy off the street to handle your personal finances, right? That doesn't make you an evil bigot, it means you have common sense. I want all people to be able to vote, but I think its more important than ever that people understand what they are voting for and why.
I sincerely believe that people should be required to go through some kind of voter education class before being able to vote. Not so that we can limit who does and does not vote, but to ensure that people are making informed decisions about things that affect our nation and ultimately the world around us. That's the Republican party's fault as much as anything else. If you look at the anti-immigrant rhetoric coming out of influential figures, it's no surprise that people will become paranoid. Likewise women became fearful on the reproductive rights issues because of the stream of nonsense coming out of a select few Republicans, which I also felt hurt the party. I do agree in principle that idiots shouldn't be allowed to vote, but I'm against it because how is the line drawn except arbitrarily?
Technically, immigrants have to go through a Civics class to gain citizenship (obviously quite a few make it through without learning anything).
And Government is a required course for all students in California at least, so I'd imagine elsewhere as well.
I agree with Wombat, it's mostly the Republican party's fault that people think these things about them. If the so-called base is clamouring for this sort of thing during the primaries and their candidates are happy to pander to them - how can uneducated people (as you call them) expect their elected officials won't try to go through with the plan? Rather than uneducated they seem naive, thinking that a politician is going to do the things they promised...
BTW, I say so-called base because Republicans weren't always so anti-immigrant. Bush was pretty progressive when it came to immigration and tried to pass a pretty broad guest-worker program which is much more soft on immigration than anything Obama's done for example.
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On November 08 2012 08:55 Zaqwert wrote:
The single mothers, hispanics, blacks, and hipsters have spoken.
This country's future is in good hands.
You know, when I was watching that party in Chicago I think it was, and I see all these young kids partying and drinking and celebrating, I couldn't help but think...
How many of you actually know or care about policies? How many are just part of the "cool" party? They have Springsteen and Lady Gaga and all the "cool" people, and all the "cool" kids are rooting for the "cool" president. How many actually know any of the policies, or their consequences?
It's like if you were in a house, and in one room there's a diverse group of young people and good music, and in the other you have a bunch of old white people with calculators and pencils churning numbers. What's the 25 year old going to go for? Democracy is really a joke, I just don't have any respect for the typical voter in either party.
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Maybe Bush wasnt as stupid as manny people think,
(i slowly changing my opinnion about him and i dont think he is terrible annymore, europe media is realy anti bush though, so its not easy to get a good picture)
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United States44285 Posts
On November 08 2012 09:12 KungKras wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 06:50 Mohdoo wrote:On November 08 2012 06:48 Souma wrote:
Crap, Prop 37 didn't pass in California.
sigh, I guess there are worse things than not having labels for genetically-modified foods.
... or are there!? It shouldn't have passed. The entire movement against GMOs has 0 scientific backing. For how much we democrats give crap to Republicans for being anti-science, our obsession with GMOs is really embarrassing. It's not about making it harder for GMO's or denying the science of it. It's about people's rights to know what they eat. People being more informed is always preferable.
Depends how they got informed and how well informed they are. If you started printing contains dihydrogen monoxide, dangerous in excessive quantities on pretty much everything then while they are more informed than they were before (they may not have looked closely at the ingredients to see water before) they're not sufficiently informed to go "that's water". More informed is not the same thing as informed enough.
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![[image loading]](http://s5.postimage.org/pr4quegkn/Capture.png)
From the exit polls, http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/results/president/exit-polls
This kind've bothered me. It's one thing to argue that a president deserves votes because of good PR, and because he sold himself well, even if that has nothing to do with the issues. It's another thing to be comfortable with the fact that people voted for Obama because he was black (Correlation---->Causation).
Not that I'm terribly surprised, but still...
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On November 08 2012 09:21 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 09:12 KungKras wrote:On November 08 2012 06:50 Mohdoo wrote:On November 08 2012 06:48 Souma wrote:
Crap, Prop 37 didn't pass in California.
sigh, I guess there are worse things than not having labels for genetically-modified foods.
... or are there!? It shouldn't have passed. The entire movement against GMOs has 0 scientific backing. For how much we democrats give crap to Republicans for being anti-science, our obsession with GMOs is really embarrassing. It's not about making it harder for GMO's or denying the science of it. It's about people's rights to know what they eat. People being more informed is always preferable. Depends how they got informed and how well informed they are. If you started printing contains dihydrogen monoxide, dangerous in excessive quantities on pretty much everything then while they are more informed than they were before (they may not have looked closely at the ingredients to see water before) they're not sufficiently informed to go "that's water". More informed is not the same thing as informed enough.
Not to mention that the law would have required labelling GE apples, but not apple cider made from those GE applies...
(as I understand it, same thing would have applied for meat and animal products raised on GE feedstock)
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On November 08 2012 09:24 soon.Cloak wrote:From the exit polls, http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/results/president/exit-pollsThis kind've bothered me. It's one thing to argue that a president deserves votes because of good PR, and because he sold himself well, even if that has nothing to do with the issues. It's another thing to be comfortable with the fact that people voted for Obama because he was black (Correlation---->Causation). Not that I'm terribly surprised, but still...
Look up the name "Stacy Dash." A black woman came out in favor of Romney publicly, and she was torn to shreds by people. My wife was attacked by her family for voting Romney, "Hispanics don't vote Republican, you aren't a real hispanic." This is the herd mentality at work. Flaw #362 of Democracy.
Some of the tweets:
+ Show Spoiler +"Trill Nye," for example, said the actress should "drink bleach and die."
"Kill yo self B***H (sic)," demanded "DJ."
One user, ironically using the name "iloveme," said she "shld go kill herself and take @realDonaldTrump to hell with her (sic)."
"Stacey Dash must die," another person said.
User "Cinnybee" said that Dash "needs to die."
Twitchy noted that many "vile" tweets were "mixed with misogyny, repulsive racial slurs and epithets."
Some called her a "house slave," and worse, while others expressed their hate using sexist, misogynistic slurs.
One person posted a picture of a smiling black woman surrounded by characters dressed in KKK-style robes and hoods.
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On November 08 2012 09:18 jdseemoreglass wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 08:55 Zaqwert wrote:
The single mothers, hispanics, blacks, and hipsters have spoken.
This country's future is in good hands. You know, when I was watching that party in Chicago I think it was, and I see all these young kids partying and drinking and celebrating, I couldn't help but think... How many of you actually know or care about policies? How many are just part of the "cool" party? They have Springsteen and Lady Gaga and all the "cool" people, and all the "cool" kids are rooting for the "cool" president. How many actually know any of the policies, or their consequences? It's like if you were in a house, and in one room there's a diverse group of young people and good music, and in the other you have a bunch of old white people with calculators and pencils churning numbers. What's the 25 year old going to go for? Democracy is really a joke, I just don't have any respect for the typical voter in either party.
It's not as though Romney didn't have his own party...most of the "cool" kids at this point have become libertarians or just general anti-government types. The rest of the youth is voting Democratic because they 1) don't want a Supreme Court Justice who might overturn Roe v. Wade 2) would like to have the ability to remain on their parents' healthcare longer no matter what 3) believe raising taxes is just as necessary to reach government solvency as cutting spending and 4) (though this may be optimistic) think that the Republican party for the past two cycles has repeatedly demonstrated no interest in meaningful long-term entitlement reform.
Edit: Gay marriage also factors into it somewhat, I suspect.
On November 08 2012 09:24 soon.Cloak wrote:From the exit polls, http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/results/president/exit-pollsThis kind've bothered me. It's one thing to argue that a president deserves votes because of good PR, and because he sold himself well, even if that has nothing to do with the issues. It's another thing to be comfortable with the fact that people voted for Obama because he was black (Correlation---->Causation). Not that I'm terribly surprised, but still...
Pretty hilarious that Obama's biggest margin in whites was in the state Romney governed...personally I think that says something, but what do I know.
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On November 08 2012 09:24 soon.Cloak wrote:From the exit polls, http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/results/president/exit-pollsThis kind've bothered me. It's one thing to argue that a president deserves votes because of good PR, and because he sold himself well, even if that has nothing to do with the issues. It's another thing to be comfortable with the fact that people voted for Obama because he was black (Correlation---->Causation). Not that I'm terribly surprised, but still...
Beeing black is not the only characteristic of obama.
If he was exactly the same, but white instead of black , near the same percentage of black people would have voted for him i think.
correlation =/= causation
You can find correlations realy everywhere btw, just pick anny 2 statistics and i can show you a correlation between them.
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United States44285 Posts
On November 08 2012 09:27 jdseemoreglass wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 09:24 soon.Cloak wrote:From the exit polls, http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/results/president/exit-pollsThis kind've bothered me. It's one thing to argue that a president deserves votes because of good PR, and because he sold himself well, even if that has nothing to do with the issues. It's another thing to be comfortable with the fact that people voted for Obama because he was black (Correlation---->Causation). Not that I'm terribly surprised, but still... Look up the name "Stacy Dash." A black woman came out in favor of Romney publicly, and she was torn to shreds by people. My wife was attacked by her family for voting Romney, "Hispanics don't vote Republican, you aren't a real hispanic." This is the herd mentality at work. Flaw #362 of Democracy. Some of the tweets: + Show Spoiler +"Trill Nye," for example, said the actress should "drink bleach and die."
"Kill yo self B***H (sic)," demanded "DJ."
One user, ironically using the name "iloveme," said she "shld go kill herself and take @realDonaldTrump to hell with her (sic)."
"Stacey Dash must die," another person said.
User "Cinnybee" said that Dash "needs to die."
Twitchy noted that many "vile" tweets were "mixed with misogyny, repulsive racial slurs and epithets."
Some called her a "house slave," and worse, while others expressed their hate using sexist, misogynistic slurs.
One person posted a picture of a smiling black woman surrounded by characters dressed in KKK-style robes and hoods.
Both sides have people voting for them for shitty reasons. Voting Republican because you think Obama is going to convert your children to Islam is no better than voting Democrat because you think Romney is going to lynch the blacks. Ultimately we shouldn't judge the party nor it's success by the idiots, they probably cancel out.
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On November 08 2012 09:19 Rassy wrote:
Maybe Bush wasnt as stupid as manny people think,
He wasn't. I still stand by he was a decent President. A lot of people dislike him because of his foreign policy and his less than impressive public speaking skills, but he was a very strong President. He expanded the power of government (not that I like it, but you have to respect him on some level for being good at what he wanted) and was able to GET STUFF DONE. While Obama has the image, he is lacking a little in getting stuff done.
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United States44285 Posts
On November 08 2012 09:32 BluePanther wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 09:19 Rassy wrote:
Maybe Bush wasnt as stupid as manny people think, He wasn't. I still stand by he was a decent President. A lot of people dislike him because of his foreign policy and his less than impressive public speaking skills, but he was a very strong President. He expanded the power of government (not that I like it, but you have to respect him on some level for being good at what he wanted) and was able to GET STUFF DONE. While Obama has the image, he is lacking a little in getting stuff done.
I've softened on Bush being an idiot as I've gotten older and hardened against both him and Blair on the whole war crimes thing.
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EPT
