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On November 08 2012 09:30 Rassy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 09:24 soon.Cloak wrote:![[image loading]](http://s5.postimage.org/pr4quegkn/Capture.png) From the exit polls, http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/results/president/exit-pollsThis kind've bothered me. It's one thing to argue that a president deserves votes because of good PR, and because he sold himself well, even if that has nothing to do with the issues. It's another thing to be comfortable with the fact that people voted for Obama because he was black (Correlation---->Causation). Not that I'm terribly surprised, but still... Beeing black is not the only characteristic of obama. If he was exactly the same, but white instead of black , near the same percentage of black people would have voted for him i think. correlation =/= causation You can find correlations realy everywhere btw, just pick anny 2 statistics and i can show you a correlation between them.
Actually I did some maths on this back in 2008. Blacks are more racist in their votes than whites.
It's not exactly a shocker, really, but it is worth noting.
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On November 08 2012 09:27 jdseemoreglass wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 09:24 soon.Cloak wrote:From the exit polls, http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/results/president/exit-pollsThis kind've bothered me. It's one thing to argue that a president deserves votes because of good PR, and because he sold himself well, even if that has nothing to do with the issues. It's another thing to be comfortable with the fact that people voted for Obama because he was black (Correlation---->Causation). Not that I'm terribly surprised, but still... Look up the name "Stacy Dash." A black woman came out in favor of Romney publicly, and she was torn to shreds by people. My wife was attacked by her family for voting Romney, "Hispanics don't vote Republican, you aren't a real hispanic." This is the herd mentality at work. Flaw #362 of Democracy. Some of the tweets: + Show Spoiler +"Trill Nye," for example, said the actress should "drink bleach and die."
"Kill yo self B***H (sic)," demanded "DJ."
One user, ironically using the name "iloveme," said she "shld go kill herself and take @realDonaldTrump to hell with her (sic)."
"Stacey Dash must die," another person said.
User "Cinnybee" said that Dash "needs to die."
Twitchy noted that many "vile" tweets were "mixed with misogyny, repulsive racial slurs and epithets."
Some called her a "house slave," and worse, while others expressed their hate using sexist, misogynistic slurs.
One person posted a picture of a smiling black woman surrounded by characters dressed in KKK-style robes and hoods.
Kerry got 88% of the black vote in 04. I agree that any demographic voting that much in sync is weird, but it has very little to do with the race of the candidate.
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I was just thinking about how dramatic US elections are then I looked at some political fights in Greece, Taiwan, and South Korea. Then I came to the conclusion that Americans talked tough.
One of the biggest things many women are paranoid about is abortion. Roe v Wade survived Reagan, Daddy Bush, and Dubya, I am pretty sure it will survive Romney. Gun control has stayed consistent for the most part with people telling anecdotes about how it is being taken away, and we have made lots of progress with homosexuality despite some of the fire and brimstone rhetoric we hear sometimes. Politicians talk tough on social issues, but sadly, their foreign policy and "national security" is pretty scary.
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On November 08 2012 09:30 Rassy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 09:24 soon.Cloak wrote:From the exit polls, http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/results/president/exit-pollsThis kind've bothered me. It's one thing to argue that a president deserves votes because of good PR, and because he sold himself well, even if that has nothing to do with the issues. It's another thing to be comfortable with the fact that people voted for Obama because he was black (Correlation---->Causation). Not that I'm terribly surprised, but still... Beeing black is not the only characteristic of obama. If he was exactly the same, but white instead of black , near the same percentage of black people would have voted for him i think. correlation =/= causation You can find correlations realy everywhere btw, just pick anny 2 statistics and i can show you a correlation between them.
![[image loading]](http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/correlation.png)
And the subtext: Correlation doesn't imply causation, but it does waggle its eyebrows suggestively and gesture furtively while mouthing 'look over there'
I think it's pretty clear that people voted for Obama because he was black, like them. Occam's razor, and all.
On November 08 2012 09:32 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 09:27 jdseemoreglass wrote:On November 08 2012 09:24 soon.Cloak wrote:From the exit polls, http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/results/president/exit-pollsThis kind've bothered me. It's one thing to argue that a president deserves votes because of good PR, and because he sold himself well, even if that has nothing to do with the issues. It's another thing to be comfortable with the fact that people voted for Obama because he was black (Correlation---->Causation). Not that I'm terribly surprised, but still... Look up the name "Stacy Dash." A black woman came out in favor of Romney publicly, and she was torn to shreds by people. My wife was attacked by her family for voting Romney, "Hispanics don't vote Republican, you aren't a real hispanic." This is the herd mentality at work. Flaw #362 of Democracy. Some of the tweets: + Show Spoiler +"Trill Nye," for example, said the actress should "drink bleach and die."
"Kill yo self B***H (sic)," demanded "DJ."
One user, ironically using the name "iloveme," said she "shld go kill herself and take @realDonaldTrump to hell with her (sic)."
"Stacey Dash must die," another person said.
User "Cinnybee" said that Dash "needs to die."
Twitchy noted that many "vile" tweets were "mixed with misogyny, repulsive racial slurs and epithets."
Some called her a "house slave," and worse, while others expressed their hate using sexist, misogynistic slurs.
One person posted a picture of a smiling black woman surrounded by characters dressed in KKK-style robes and hoods. Both sides have people voting for them for shitty reasons. Voting Republican because you think Obama is going to convert your children to Islam is no better than voting Democrat because you think Romney is going to lynch the blacks. Ultimately we shouldn't judge the party nor it's success by the idiots, they probably cancel out.
See, I don't know about this. What percent of citizens are both uneducated (thinking Obama is Muslim) and Islamophobes? I think the percentage of citizens that are black ridiculously outweigh that. I think that if we would've pretended that Obama would not have had the Islam aspect working against him, but would've been white, there's an excellent chance he wouldn't have won (particularly see the 95% in Florida and 96% in Ohio- those are ridiculously high numbers).
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On November 08 2012 09:37 TrickyGilligan wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 09:27 jdseemoreglass wrote:On November 08 2012 09:24 soon.Cloak wrote:From the exit polls, http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/results/president/exit-pollsThis kind've bothered me. It's one thing to argue that a president deserves votes because of good PR, and because he sold himself well, even if that has nothing to do with the issues. It's another thing to be comfortable with the fact that people voted for Obama because he was black (Correlation---->Causation). Not that I'm terribly surprised, but still... Look up the name "Stacy Dash." A black woman came out in favor of Romney publicly, and she was torn to shreds by people. My wife was attacked by her family for voting Romney, "Hispanics don't vote Republican, you aren't a real hispanic." This is the herd mentality at work. Flaw #362 of Democracy. Some of the tweets: + Show Spoiler +"Trill Nye," for example, said the actress should "drink bleach and die."
"Kill yo self B***H (sic)," demanded "DJ."
One user, ironically using the name "iloveme," said she "shld go kill herself and take @realDonaldTrump to hell with her (sic)."
"Stacey Dash must die," another person said.
User "Cinnybee" said that Dash "needs to die."
Twitchy noted that many "vile" tweets were "mixed with misogyny, repulsive racial slurs and epithets."
Some called her a "house slave," and worse, while others expressed their hate using sexist, misogynistic slurs.
One person posted a picture of a smiling black woman surrounded by characters dressed in KKK-style robes and hoods. Kerry got 88% of the black vote in 04. I agree that any demographic voting that much in sync is weird, but it has very little to do with the race of the candidate.
Even the GOP acknowledges that one of their biggest failings is their refusal(?) to reach out to minorities. This correlation between race and party votes isn't surprising when one party actively makes an effort to appeal to people who aren't white & male and the other pretends that they don't exist.
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On November 08 2012 08:26 Collings wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 08:18 AoWGoDLiKe wrote:
Dear America,
Thx
Sincerely,
Rest of the fucking world. Fuck you, you do not represent the rest of the world. I hate it how people get all high and mighty and presume that everyone outside of America is an Obama supporter. FWIW I hate both Romney and Obama equally and am not grateful that the US has voted for the current President.
http://iftheworldcouldvote.com/polls/results/
First Google link, total numbers are small but it's not the first time I came across percentages like that. so yes, I believe he can say thank you, maybe not for the rest of the world, but at least for a large majority.
I had doubts about posting this for 2 weeks now because it kinda feels like I am USA bashing/inciting EU vs USA rants, but I am really astonished by this and hope to get a serious informative answer.
This is the first US election I actively followed. And it got me wondering. From the pieces I read and see on tv about US elections i always got the impression Americans take voting a lot more serious then "we" do. With this in mind it just seems so utterly insane to me that Romney had any chance to begin with. I am referring to his plans (http://www.mittromney.com/JobsPlan) a poorly described long term plan of 2 pages(rest is references and why current situation is bad statements), 180's on multiple issues since Republican primaries, actively evading US taxes, refusing to disclose financial information prior to running etc. For me only a few of those flaws would seem enough to not come anywhere near being president.
Am I underestimating "the anyone but Obama" or Rep vs Dem, only getting the Obama favored news, making a logical error or any other reason why i might be misinformed that led me to that believe?
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On November 08 2012 09:30 Rassy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 09:24 soon.Cloak wrote:From the exit polls, http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/results/president/exit-pollsThis kind've bothered me. It's one thing to argue that a president deserves votes because of good PR, and because he sold himself well, even if that has nothing to do with the issues. It's another thing to be comfortable with the fact that people voted for Obama because he was black (Correlation---->Causation). Not that I'm terribly surprised, but still... Beeing black is not the only characteristic of obama. If he was exactly the same, but white instead of black , near the same percentage of black people would have voted for him i think. correlation =/= causation You can find correlations realy everywhere btw, just pick anny 2 statistics and i can show you a correlation between them.
It's 93% though. Something is definitely wrong. If you select 100 people from the same social-economic background, it is unlikely that as many as 93 of them would vote for the same candidate.
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On November 08 2012 09:36 BluePanther wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 09:30 Rassy wrote:On November 08 2012 09:24 soon.Cloak wrote:From the exit polls, http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/results/president/exit-pollsThis kind've bothered me. It's one thing to argue that a president deserves votes because of good PR, and because he sold himself well, even if that has nothing to do with the issues. It's another thing to be comfortable with the fact that people voted for Obama because he was black (Correlation---->Causation). Not that I'm terribly surprised, but still... Beeing black is not the only characteristic of obama. If he was exactly the same, but white instead of black , near the same percentage of black people would have voted for him i think. correlation =/= causation You can find correlations realy everywhere btw, just pick anny 2 statistics and i can show you a correlation between them. Actually I did some maths on this back in 2008. Blacks are more racist in their votes than whites. It's not exactly a shocker, really, but it is worth noting.
lmao almost every one of your posts in this thread is amazing flame bait xD
I love it lol
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SPOILER ALERT WTF TEAMLIQUID
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On November 08 2012 09:45 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 09:30 Rassy wrote:On November 08 2012 09:24 soon.Cloak wrote:From the exit polls, http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/results/president/exit-pollsThis kind've bothered me. It's one thing to argue that a president deserves votes because of good PR, and because he sold himself well, even if that has nothing to do with the issues. It's another thing to be comfortable with the fact that people voted for Obama because he was black (Correlation---->Causation). Not that I'm terribly surprised, but still... Beeing black is not the only characteristic of obama. If he was exactly the same, but white instead of black , near the same percentage of black people would have voted for him i think. correlation =/= causation You can find correlations realy everywhere btw, just pick anny 2 statistics and i can show you a correlation between them. It's 93% though. Something is definitely wrong. If you select 100 people from the same social-economic background, it is unlikely that as many as 93 of them would vote for the same candidate.
It's no lie, some people do vote for Obama because he is black.
But 88% of blacks voted for Kerry. How many blacks are actually voting for Obama just because he is black?
Then ask yourself, how many whites are voting against Obama because he is black?
Might be closer than you think.
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On November 08 2012 09:37 TrickyGilligan wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 09:27 jdseemoreglass wrote:On November 08 2012 09:24 soon.Cloak wrote:From the exit polls, http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/results/president/exit-pollsThis kind've bothered me. It's one thing to argue that a president deserves votes because of good PR, and because he sold himself well, even if that has nothing to do with the issues. It's another thing to be comfortable with the fact that people voted for Obama because he was black (Correlation---->Causation). Not that I'm terribly surprised, but still... Look up the name "Stacy Dash." A black woman came out in favor of Romney publicly, and she was torn to shreds by people. My wife was attacked by her family for voting Romney, "Hispanics don't vote Republican, you aren't a real hispanic." This is the herd mentality at work. Flaw #362 of Democracy. Some of the tweets: + Show Spoiler +"Trill Nye," for example, said the actress should "drink bleach and die."
"Kill yo self B***H (sic)," demanded "DJ."
One user, ironically using the name "iloveme," said she "shld go kill herself and take @realDonaldTrump to hell with her (sic)."
"Stacey Dash must die," another person said.
User "Cinnybee" said that Dash "needs to die."
Twitchy noted that many "vile" tweets were "mixed with misogyny, repulsive racial slurs and epithets."
Some called her a "house slave," and worse, while others expressed their hate using sexist, misogynistic slurs.
One person posted a picture of a smiling black woman surrounded by characters dressed in KKK-style robes and hoods. Kerry got 88% of the black vote in 04. I agree that any demographic voting that much in sync is weird, but it has very little to do with the race of the candidate.
The difference between 88% and 93% is massive, though. 41% of the black people who did not vote for Kerry in 2004 then voted for Obama in 2012.
Believe me I am not racist. But that kind of increase is not down to chance. Whether it is due to Obama being black or not is debatable but something big must have happened to cause such a big shift.
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However, what really seemed to hit a nerve with a lot of people was the constant sexism from some Republicans. Rush Limbaugh, Akin, "binders of women," and Murdoch. Then there is the issue of gay marriage which seems to be really important for people not into politics as much because chances are at this point, many of us have gay friends whom we would like to see married and naturally repulsed when people say that they are sinful. That seems to be a much bigger effect.
And about Romney's statement on women, I think this woman sums up how we should take it
http://christinescottcheng.wordpress.com/2012/10/22/defending-romneys-binders-full-of-women/
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United States44449 Posts
On November 08 2012 09:42 soon.Cloak wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 09:32 KwarK wrote:
Both sides have people voting for them for shitty reasons. Voting Republican because you think Obama is going to convert your children to Islam is no better than voting Democrat because you think Romney is going to lynch the blacks. Ultimately we shouldn't judge the party nor it's success by the idiots, they probably cancel out. See, I don't know about this. What percent of citizens are both uneducated (thinking Obama is Muslim) and Islamophobes? I think the percentage of citizens that are black ridiculously outweigh that. I think that if we would've pretended that Obama would not have had the Islam aspect working against him, but would've been white, there's an excellent chance he wouldn't have won (particularly see the 95% in Florida and 96% in Ohio- those are ridiculously high numbers).
I said that the Romney hates blacks guys are probably cancelled out by the Obama hates Christianity guys, not that all black voters everywhere are cancelled out by Obama hates Christianity guys. What you've done here is take what I said about the idiots who make up part of the support for every party and then say that in the Democratic party every black voter is one of those idiots. You might want to consider why you've done this.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On November 08 2012 09:42 soon.Cloak wrote:
See, I don't know about this. What percent of citizens are both uneducated (thinking Obama is Muslim) and Islamophobes? I think the percentage of citizens that are black ridiculously outweigh that. I think that if we would've pretended that Obama would not have had the Islam aspect working against him, but would've been white, there's an excellent chance he wouldn't have won (particularly see the 95% in Florida and 96% in Ohio- those are ridiculously high numbers).
you realize you just called every black voter as dumb as a guy that thinks obama is a terrorist.
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I always thought it was nothing new that large amounts of african americans voted democrat. Why are people so surprised?
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Matches were yesterday
SPOILER THE DAMN TITLE
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On November 08 2012 09:50 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 09:37 TrickyGilligan wrote:On November 08 2012 09:27 jdseemoreglass wrote:On November 08 2012 09:24 soon.Cloak wrote:From the exit polls, http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/results/president/exit-pollsThis kind've bothered me. It's one thing to argue that a president deserves votes because of good PR, and because he sold himself well, even if that has nothing to do with the issues. It's another thing to be comfortable with the fact that people voted for Obama because he was black (Correlation---->Causation). Not that I'm terribly surprised, but still... Look up the name "Stacy Dash." A black woman came out in favor of Romney publicly, and she was torn to shreds by people. My wife was attacked by her family for voting Romney, "Hispanics don't vote Republican, you aren't a real hispanic." This is the herd mentality at work. Flaw #362 of Democracy. Some of the tweets: + Show Spoiler +"Trill Nye," for example, said the actress should "drink bleach and die."
"Kill yo self B***H (sic)," demanded "DJ."
One user, ironically using the name "iloveme," said she "shld go kill herself and take @realDonaldTrump to hell with her (sic)."
"Stacey Dash must die," another person said.
User "Cinnybee" said that Dash "needs to die."
Twitchy noted that many "vile" tweets were "mixed with misogyny, repulsive racial slurs and epithets."
Some called her a "house slave," and worse, while others expressed their hate using sexist, misogynistic slurs.
One person posted a picture of a smiling black woman surrounded by characters dressed in KKK-style robes and hoods. Kerry got 88% of the black vote in 04. I agree that any demographic voting that much in sync is weird, but it has very little to do with the race of the candidate. The difference between 88% and 93% is massive, though. 41% of the black people who did not vote for Kerry in 2004 then voted for Obama in 2012. Believe me I am not racist. But that kind of increase is not down to chance. Whether it is due to Obama being black or not is debatable but something big must have happened to cause such a big shift.
your 41% is um meaningless compared to the 5% increase in black vote %.
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People really don't understand why Obama took such a large portion of black and latino votes? People really don't understand the symbolic and psychological step up it represents after slavery and jim crow, after centuries of overt and surreptitious racist speech and policies, after generations of poverty, all under the guiding hands of old, white men? Really?
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On November 08 2012 09:58 FeUerFlieGe wrote:I always thought it was nothing new that large amounts of african americans voted democrat. Why are people so surprised?
I don't know, also most blacks live in the South, 55% or so according to 2010 census with its own history that is also no surprise why they vote why they do.
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EPT
