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While this plan may not be perfect, it seems like a step in the right direction.
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On April 18 2012 10:21 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 10:19 Xanbatou wrote:
There is a student debt problem? I wasn't aware of it. I have a student loan for about 25k and I'm almost finished with my bachelor's in CS. I already have a couple jobs lined up for after I graduate that will pay quite well. I expect to be able to pay off all my loans within the first couple years.
IMO, the problem is people spending exorbitant sums of money on degrees in areas that are relatively worthless to society. There is a huge demand for engineers, so go get an engineering degree. You have no right to complain about student loans when you paid 30k a year at a private school getting a degree in Latin. We don't bail out people who waste all their money investing in some shitty startup, why should we bail out people who waste on their money on a useless degree? Getting a job in engineering would make many, many people incredibly miserable. It's a pretty dreadful 9 to 5 job, really.
I think a 9 to 5 job in engineering is better than being a barista at starbucks (or something equivalent), which is what happens to many people with useless degrees. I know a girl who got a degree in international relations at a private school. She spent a huge amount of money there and is now in a lot of debt, and she can't find a job anywhere that actually uses the degree she earned.
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On April 18 2012 10:25 acerockolla wrote:
Btw, this proposed legislation is an example of the real issue our country is facing. Rather than attempt to deal with the real problems inherit with student loans, schools increasing tuition, interest rates, and whatever else there is, politicians rather make headlines with garbage legislation that polarizes the populace while getting absolutely nothing done.
Yes, they run the country with short-sighted goals that wins votes instead of doing what's best for the country. A huge topic in itself. I hate it
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On April 18 2012 10:20 Kazeyonoma wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 10:16 IgnE wrote:
Except that you can't discharge your student loans through bankruptcy in the United States thanks to George Bush and his financial industry lobbyists. You are stuck with them for life.
Ordinarily loans are an investment, and as such, a risk. Lenders risk the money on people they think can pay them. They take a risk just as much as the borrower does. The lender risks the capital, and the borrower risks having to go into bankruptcy. That's capitalism. But when the borrower can't even declare bankruptcy, it becomes free money for the lender, who is encouraged to loan as much money to as many people as possible.
So when 2008 happens, and the finance industry fucks over everyone, the borrowers, who were promised nothing but growth and jobs for anyone who got educated at college, are left holding the bag, while the lenders still get to collect all the free money they offered.
All of the conservative/libertarians here need to get a grip and come back to reality. Student default hurts everyone and the lenders are just as culpable, if not more culpable than some naive college students who were just doing what everyone else told them to do. And we're saying you need to FIX the system, that puts these lenders in the power they are, as well as the societal obligation for everyone to go to college (not true!) just to get a job, rather than do this which will likely help a lot of people, but be ABUSED by everyone else.
And what about all the students who have already been victimized by predatory lenders and educators who usually work hand in hand? Colleges are often partnered with lenders, in that they encourage you to "get a college education" and even invite the lenders on campus to make it easier for you to sign up for loans. Loans that cannot be discharged through bankruptcy. Loans that are free money for the lenders and free money for the universities. Why should universities ever stop raising their tuition when the students are guaranteed money, because the lenders have essentially no risk in lending them more?
Fuck those who did what society told them to do? They can reap what they sow? The fact is that they are the future of this country and are already, on average $25,000 in debt. That is the average for everyone who graduated from college in 2010. Some people have no debt. Many more have far more debt.
Yeah I agree we need to change the system. Education is way way way overpriced, not needed for many who go, and really just a calculated scheme to welcome the next generation into American Debt Slavery, before they can even try to buy a house they can't afford. But this bill is a step in the right direction, because George Bush and the rest of this country have been hyping and selling a bunk product to our nation's young people for the last 15+ years.
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On April 18 2012 10:21 Silidons wrote:
yes lets forgive everyone who got a $50k liberal arts/arts/whatever degree that everyone told them wouldn't get them a job but still the majority get one of these types of degrees, and now they have no job and can't pay it off.
Let's not kid ourselves. There's plenty of degrees out there that are supposed to be "useful" (law degree is one that particularly comes to mind)... but you'll still find the people receiving them are waiting tables or unemployed. And of course the narrative that liberal arts degrees are worthless and we need more science and math people is getting pretty old... any time you have a massive transfer of people to a particular degree program b/c "WE NEED MORE X", what usually ends up happening is that you have an industry that can't support the influx of new workers.
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On April 18 2012 10:21 Silidons wrote:
yes lets forgive everyone who got a $50k liberal arts/arts/whatever degree that everyone told them wouldn't get them a job but still the majority get one of these types of degrees, and now they have no job and can't pay it off.
what kind of a school charges 12 500 dollars per year for a liberal arts degree? i'd see that happening with engineering, or a top school, but the average pays that much? maybe it's just different over in the states? that just seems like an outrageous amount to charge for a liberal arts degree.
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5003 Posts
On April 18 2012 10:22 Man with a Plan wrote:
This is horrible. Is this a newish "stimulus"? American education system really needs to be reviewed
American education system is a giant game of hot potatoes that had its chain down to college. It basically went "you need to do well in middle school cause that'll help you get better in HS" and then "you need to do well in HS so you can go to a good college". We have a lot more people going to college for absolutely useless degrees than what we had needed, so yes, the system is seriously flawed. This is because college was literally preached as a "cure all" to be "successful". And now people are finally starting to see the repercussions of this.
Meanwhile, this is probably a much better way of stimulating the economy than half the shit congress pulls off anyway. The best way to do is to give tax breaks to parents who paid for college and forgive a fixed amount of debt for college students (rather than all).
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On April 18 2012 10:24 Elegance wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 10:21 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2012 10:19 Xanbatou wrote:
There is a student debt problem? I wasn't aware of it. I have a student loan for about 25k and I'm almost finished with my bachelor's in CS. I already have a couple jobs lined up for after I graduate that will pay quite well. I expect to be able to pay off all my loans within the first couple years.
IMO, the problem is people spending exorbitant sums of money on degrees in areas that are relatively worthless to society. There is a huge demand for engineers, so go get an engineering degree. You have no right to complain about student loans when you paid 30k a year at a private school getting a degree in Latin. We don't bail out people who waste all their money investing in some shitty startup, why should we bail out people who waste on their money on a useless degree? Getting a job in engineering would make many, many people incredibly miserable. It's a pretty dreadful 9 to 5 job, really. And because having a dreadful 9 to 5 job is well.... dreadful, you would choose a useless degree over it and waste a shit ton of money and probably end up unemployed?
God yes, I'd probably be happier with 30k from a social sciences degree with a decent job than 50-60k from an engineering degree designing stuff according to sometimes ridiculous and unnecessary standards and codes.
For some people it's awesome, for others it isn't. I'm getting my masters in political sciences and I'll end up with the same salary as someone with an engineering bachelor (which takes 2 years less to get). Worth it. Would've been worth it even if I made less.
Engineering -_- ugh
On April 18 2012 10:26 Xanbatou wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 10:21 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2012 10:19 Xanbatou wrote:
There is a student debt problem? I wasn't aware of it. I have a student loan for about 25k and I'm almost finished with my bachelor's in CS. I already have a couple jobs lined up for after I graduate that will pay quite well. I expect to be able to pay off all my loans within the first couple years.
IMO, the problem is people spending exorbitant sums of money on degrees in areas that are relatively worthless to society. There is a huge demand for engineers, so go get an engineering degree. You have no right to complain about student loans when you paid 30k a year at a private school getting a degree in Latin. We don't bail out people who waste all their money investing in some shitty startup, why should we bail out people who waste on their money on a useless degree? Getting a job in engineering would make many, many people incredibly miserable. It's a pretty dreadful 9 to 5 job, really. I think a 9 to 5 job in engineering is better than being a barista at starbucks (or something equivalent), which is what happens to many people with useless degrees. I know a girl who got a degree in international relations at a private school. She spent a huge amount of money there and is now in a lot of debt, and she can't find a job anywhere that actually uses the degree she earned.
Well if she looked harder for a semi-decent job, she could get something in her field. It may not lead to a lot of money, but it wouldn't be Starbucks. Her fault.
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On April 18 2012 10:27 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 10:21 Silidons wrote:
yes lets forgive everyone who got a $50k liberal arts/arts/whatever degree that everyone told them wouldn't get them a job but still the majority get one of these types of degrees, and now they have no job and can't pay it off.
what kind of a school charges 12 500 dollars per year for a liberal arts degree? i'd see that happening with engineering, or a top school, but the average pays that much? maybe it's just different over in the states? that just seems like an outrageous amount to charge for a liberal arts degree.
Many schools charge essentially exactly the same for a degree regardless of major outside of degrees like PharmD/MD.
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I don't feel like a bill to forgive is the right solution, that doesn't solve the problem. The problem is that we're pushing too many people into college. Yes, our society is advancing and requiring more human capital related labor, but we're not in an economic, nor societal position that demands that this many workers goes to college. The other problem is that college tuition itself is rising at too fast a rate for job wages to keep up. This is analogous to insurance company premiums and wage pay increases. I feel the US as a whole needs to re-evaluate the necessity of a college education, and inspire cheaper alternatives.
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On April 18 2012 10:27 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 10:24 Elegance wrote:On April 18 2012 10:21 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2012 10:19 Xanbatou wrote:
There is a student debt problem? I wasn't aware of it. I have a student loan for about 25k and I'm almost finished with my bachelor's in CS. I already have a couple jobs lined up for after I graduate that will pay quite well. I expect to be able to pay off all my loans within the first couple years.
IMO, the problem is people spending exorbitant sums of money on degrees in areas that are relatively worthless to society. There is a huge demand for engineers, so go get an engineering degree. You have no right to complain about student loans when you paid 30k a year at a private school getting a degree in Latin. We don't bail out people who waste all their money investing in some shitty startup, why should we bail out people who waste on their money on a useless degree? Getting a job in engineering would make many, many people incredibly miserable. It's a pretty dreadful 9 to 5 job, really. And because having a dreadful 9 to 5 job is well.... dreadful, you would choose a useless degree over it and waste a shit ton of money and probably end up unemployed? God yes, I'd probably be happier with 30k from a social sciences degree with a decent job than 50-60k from an engineering degree designing stuff according to sometimes ridiculous and unnecessary standards and codes. For some people it's awesome, for others it isn't. I'm getting my masters in political sciences and I'll end up with the same salary as someone with an engineering bachelor (which takes 2 years less to get). Worth it. Would've been worth it even if I made less. Engineering -_- ugh Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 10:26 Xanbatou wrote:On April 18 2012 10:21 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2012 10:19 Xanbatou wrote:
There is a student debt problem? I wasn't aware of it. I have a student loan for about 25k and I'm almost finished with my bachelor's in CS. I already have a couple jobs lined up for after I graduate that will pay quite well. I expect to be able to pay off all my loans within the first couple years.
IMO, the problem is people spending exorbitant sums of money on degrees in areas that are relatively worthless to society. There is a huge demand for engineers, so go get an engineering degree. You have no right to complain about student loans when you paid 30k a year at a private school getting a degree in Latin. We don't bail out people who waste all their money investing in some shitty startup, why should we bail out people who waste on their money on a useless degree? Getting a job in engineering would make many, many people incredibly miserable. It's a pretty dreadful 9 to 5 job, really. I think a 9 to 5 job in engineering is better than being a barista at starbucks (or something equivalent), which is what happens to many people with useless degrees. I know a girl who got a degree in international relations at a private school. She spent a huge amount of money there and is now in a lot of debt, and she can't find a job anywhere that actually uses the degree she earned. Well if she looked harder for a semi-decent job, she could get something in her field. It may not lead to a lot of money, but it wouldn't be Starbucks. Her fault.
To each their own then, I'll respect your opinion. Though I would rather take a route that is more aimed at money and less at the profession
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I don't know enough about the bill to give an honest opinion so I'll just say this:
High education is a scam right now. Too many people go to college and going to college means less and less. People go to college for bad reasons and go into jobs that have nothing to do with what they studied. That is not what college is for!
I don't want to say "if you have massive debt and no way to pay it off, you deserve it" because that is really harsh and unsympathetic...BUT IT'S TRUE. If you go to college with no plan and bad financial planning I think it is no one's fault except your own (and maybe your parents). It is very possible graduate from a reputable college with less than $40,000 debt even if you have not saved money for it before hand.
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On April 18 2012 10:30 Elegance wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 10:27 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2012 10:24 Elegance wrote:On April 18 2012 10:21 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2012 10:19 Xanbatou wrote:
There is a student debt problem? I wasn't aware of it. I have a student loan for about 25k and I'm almost finished with my bachelor's in CS. I already have a couple jobs lined up for after I graduate that will pay quite well. I expect to be able to pay off all my loans within the first couple years.
IMO, the problem is people spending exorbitant sums of money on degrees in areas that are relatively worthless to society. There is a huge demand for engineers, so go get an engineering degree. You have no right to complain about student loans when you paid 30k a year at a private school getting a degree in Latin. We don't bail out people who waste all their money investing in some shitty startup, why should we bail out people who waste on their money on a useless degree? Getting a job in engineering would make many, many people incredibly miserable. It's a pretty dreadful 9 to 5 job, really. And because having a dreadful 9 to 5 job is well.... dreadful, you would choose a useless degree over it and waste a shit ton of money and probably end up unemployed? God yes, I'd probably be happier with 30k from a social sciences degree with a decent job than 50-60k from an engineering degree designing stuff according to sometimes ridiculous and unnecessary standards and codes. For some people it's awesome, for others it isn't. I'm getting my masters in political sciences and I'll end up with the same salary as someone with an engineering bachelor (which takes 2 years less to get). Worth it. Would've been worth it even if I made less. Engineering -_- ugh On April 18 2012 10:26 Xanbatou wrote:On April 18 2012 10:21 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2012 10:19 Xanbatou wrote:
There is a student debt problem? I wasn't aware of it. I have a student loan for about 25k and I'm almost finished with my bachelor's in CS. I already have a couple jobs lined up for after I graduate that will pay quite well. I expect to be able to pay off all my loans within the first couple years.
IMO, the problem is people spending exorbitant sums of money on degrees in areas that are relatively worthless to society. There is a huge demand for engineers, so go get an engineering degree. You have no right to complain about student loans when you paid 30k a year at a private school getting a degree in Latin. We don't bail out people who waste all their money investing in some shitty startup, why should we bail out people who waste on their money on a useless degree? Getting a job in engineering would make many, many people incredibly miserable. It's a pretty dreadful 9 to 5 job, really. I think a 9 to 5 job in engineering is better than being a barista at starbucks (or something equivalent), which is what happens to many people with useless degrees. I know a girl who got a degree in international relations at a private school. She spent a huge amount of money there and is now in a lot of debt, and she can't find a job anywhere that actually uses the degree she earned. Well if she looked harder for a semi-decent job, she could get something in her field. It may not lead to a lot of money, but it wouldn't be Starbucks. Her fault. To each their own then, I'll respect your opinion. Though I would rather take a route that is more aimed at money and less at the profession
Well, you only live once, don't you. If you think you can make the most of it by making money by having a terribly boring job that pays well, then that's your call. But don't expect much success when telling everyone "engineering is easy and pays well", which while true, isn't worth it for people like myself.
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On April 18 2012 10:21 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 10:26 Xanbatou wrote:On April 18 2012 10:21 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2012 10:19 Xanbatou wrote:
There is a student debt problem? I wasn't aware of it. I have a student loan for about 25k and I'm almost finished with my bachelor's in CS. I already have a couple jobs lined up for after I graduate that will pay quite well. I expect to be able to pay off all my loans within the first couple years.
IMO, the problem is people spending exorbitant sums of money on degrees in areas that are relatively worthless to society. There is a huge demand for engineers, so go get an engineering degree. You have no right to complain about student loans when you paid 30k a year at a private school getting a degree in Latin. We don't bail out people who waste all their money investing in some shitty startup, why should we bail out people who waste on their money on a useless degree? Getting a job in engineering would make many, many people incredibly miserable. It's a pretty dreadful 9 to 5 job, really. I think a 9 to 5 job in engineering is better than being a barista at starbucks (or something equivalent), which is what happens to many people with useless degrees. I know a girl who got a degree in international relations at a private school. She spent a huge amount of money there and is now in a lot of debt, and she can't find a job anywhere that actually uses the degree she earned. Well if she looked harder for a semi-decent job, she could get something in her field. It may not lead to a lot of money, but it wouldn't be Starbucks. Her fault.
That is complete bullshit. It's not like the jobs are out there, you just have to look for them. There are actually very few jobs, and the competition to get those jobs is extremely fierce. Trying to get a job these days without actual experience is a nightmare, because employers can choose from dozens if not a hundred or more applicants, some of whom have the exact experience they are looking for. Why train a new candidate who just graduated from college when you can just bring in a more experienced person and pay them the same amount? The baby boomer generation is literally cannibalizing its young, as the unemployment/underemployment rate for 20 somethings is skyrocketing.
You can't say "well it's his/her fault" when there are only enough jobs for X% of the cohort, where X is some small number. By definition 100-X% will still be un/underemployed no matter how hard they try.
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On April 18 2012 10:27 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 10:24 Elegance wrote:On April 18 2012 10:21 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2012 10:19 Xanbatou wrote:
There is a student debt problem? I wasn't aware of it. I have a student loan for about 25k and I'm almost finished with my bachelor's in CS. I already have a couple jobs lined up for after I graduate that will pay quite well. I expect to be able to pay off all my loans within the first couple years.
IMO, the problem is people spending exorbitant sums of money on degrees in areas that are relatively worthless to society. There is a huge demand for engineers, so go get an engineering degree. You have no right to complain about student loans when you paid 30k a year at a private school getting a degree in Latin. We don't bail out people who waste all their money investing in some shitty startup, why should we bail out people who waste on their money on a useless degree? Getting a job in engineering would make many, many people incredibly miserable. It's a pretty dreadful 9 to 5 job, really. And because having a dreadful 9 to 5 job is well.... dreadful, you would choose a useless degree over it and waste a shit ton of money and probably end up unemployed? God yes, I'd probably be happier with 30k from a social sciences degree with a decent job than 50-60k from an engineering degree designing stuff according to sometimes ridiculous and unnecessary standards and codes. For some people it's awesome, for others it isn't. I'm getting my masters in political sciences and I'll end up with the same salary as someone with an engineering bachelor (which takes 2 years less to get). Worth it. Would've been worth it even if I made less. Engineering -_- ugh Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 10:26 Xanbatou wrote:On April 18 2012 10:21 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2012 10:19 Xanbatou wrote:
There is a student debt problem? I wasn't aware of it. I have a student loan for about 25k and I'm almost finished with my bachelor's in CS. I already have a couple jobs lined up for after I graduate that will pay quite well. I expect to be able to pay off all my loans within the first couple years.
IMO, the problem is people spending exorbitant sums of money on degrees in areas that are relatively worthless to society. There is a huge demand for engineers, so go get an engineering degree. You have no right to complain about student loans when you paid 30k a year at a private school getting a degree in Latin. We don't bail out people who waste all their money investing in some shitty startup, why should we bail out people who waste on their money on a useless degree? Getting a job in engineering would make many, many people incredibly miserable. It's a pretty dreadful 9 to 5 job, really. I think a 9 to 5 job in engineering is better than being a barista at starbucks (or something equivalent), which is what happens to many people with useless degrees. I know a girl who got a degree in international relations at a private school. She spent a huge amount of money there and is now in a lot of debt, and she can't find a job anywhere that actually uses the degree she earned. Well if she looked harder for a semi-decent job, she could get something in her field. It may not lead to a lot of money, but it wouldn't be Starbucks. Her fault.
You are right, though. Some people just are not cut out for or are not interested in STEM majors. However, it's a bit silly to pay the same for your degree as someone in a STEM field since they will usually make so much more. Since education is basically teaching you how to contribute to society, I think the degrees should be valued accordingly. People that receive degrees that have lower associated salary should pay less for their education, IMO. I don't think that's feasible though =/.
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Can someone explain to me how loan forgiveness fixes the financial blackhole of lost money? How will this prevent a crash if students all lined up for this instead of defaulting? From what I hear, there are a significant number of students out there who would still not be able to pay.
Also:
"If you make payments equal to 10% of your discretionary income for 10 years, your
remaining federal student loan debt would be forgiven."
"Discretionary income is money remaining after all bills are paid off. It is income after subtracting taxes and normal expenses (such as rent or mortgage, utilities, insurance, medical, transportation, property maintenance, child support, inflation, food and sundries, etc.) to maintain a certain standard of living.[5] It is the amount of an individual's income available for spending after the essentials (such as food, clothing, and shelter) have been taken care of:"
Does no one else see a problem with this? You could pay off your loan with 10% of whatever you have left after paying bills. This figure could easily be manipulated by buying more food or buying more utilities...
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On April 18 2012 10:36 Xanbatou wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 10:27 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2012 10:24 Elegance wrote:On April 18 2012 10:21 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2012 10:19 Xanbatou wrote:
There is a student debt problem? I wasn't aware of it. I have a student loan for about 25k and I'm almost finished with my bachelor's in CS. I already have a couple jobs lined up for after I graduate that will pay quite well. I expect to be able to pay off all my loans within the first couple years.
IMO, the problem is people spending exorbitant sums of money on degrees in areas that are relatively worthless to society. There is a huge demand for engineers, so go get an engineering degree. You have no right to complain about student loans when you paid 30k a year at a private school getting a degree in Latin. We don't bail out people who waste all their money investing in some shitty startup, why should we bail out people who waste on their money on a useless degree? Getting a job in engineering would make many, many people incredibly miserable. It's a pretty dreadful 9 to 5 job, really. And because having a dreadful 9 to 5 job is well.... dreadful, you would choose a useless degree over it and waste a shit ton of money and probably end up unemployed? God yes, I'd probably be happier with 30k from a social sciences degree with a decent job than 50-60k from an engineering degree designing stuff according to sometimes ridiculous and unnecessary standards and codes. For some people it's awesome, for others it isn't. I'm getting my masters in political sciences and I'll end up with the same salary as someone with an engineering bachelor (which takes 2 years less to get). Worth it. Would've been worth it even if I made less. Engineering -_- ugh On April 18 2012 10:26 Xanbatou wrote:On April 18 2012 10:21 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2012 10:19 Xanbatou wrote:
There is a student debt problem? I wasn't aware of it. I have a student loan for about 25k and I'm almost finished with my bachelor's in CS. I already have a couple jobs lined up for after I graduate that will pay quite well. I expect to be able to pay off all my loans within the first couple years.
IMO, the problem is people spending exorbitant sums of money on degrees in areas that are relatively worthless to society. There is a huge demand for engineers, so go get an engineering degree. You have no right to complain about student loans when you paid 30k a year at a private school getting a degree in Latin. We don't bail out people who waste all their money investing in some shitty startup, why should we bail out people who waste on their money on a useless degree? Getting a job in engineering would make many, many people incredibly miserable. It's a pretty dreadful 9 to 5 job, really. I think a 9 to 5 job in engineering is better than being a barista at starbucks (or something equivalent), which is what happens to many people with useless degrees. I know a girl who got a degree in international relations at a private school. She spent a huge amount of money there and is now in a lot of debt, and she can't find a job anywhere that actually uses the degree she earned. Well if she looked harder for a semi-decent job, she could get something in her field. It may not lead to a lot of money, but it wouldn't be Starbucks. Her fault. You are right, though. Some people just are not cut out for or are not interested in STEM majors. However, it's a bit silly to pay the same for your degree as someone in a STEM field since they will usually make so much more. Since education is basically teaching you how to contribute to society, I think the degrees should be valued accordingly. People that receive degrees that have lower associated salary should pay less for their education, IMO. I don't think that's feasible though =/.
I really don't think this is the purpose of education at all, but we've somehow transformed education into this contest of how to better benefit the state.
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On April 18 2012 10:36 Spoof wrote:
Can someone explain to me how loan forgiveness fixes the financial blackhole of lost money? How will this prevent a crash if students all lined up for this instead of defaulting? From what I hear, there are a significant number of students out there who would still not be able to pay.
Also:
"If you make payments equal to 10% of your discretionary income for 10 years, your
remaining federal student loan debt would be forgiven."
"Discretionary income is money remaining after all bills are paid off. It is income after subtracting taxes and normal expenses (such as rent or mortgage, utilities, insurance, medical, transportation, property maintenance, child support, inflation, food and sundries, etc.) to maintain a certain standard of living.[5] It is the amount of an individual's income available for spending after the essentials (such as food, clothing, and shelter) have been taken care of:"
Does no one else see a problem with this? You could pay off your loan with 10% of whatever you have left after paying bills. This figure could easily be manipulated by buying more food or buying more utilities...
Set a price for "normal expenses" that varies based on region and family size, or some other such factors. It doesn't fix the blackhole of lost money. It's just a stimulus bill that seeks to repair some of the damage caused by predatory lenders and universities in this country that feed off the false promise that "getting an education (at university)" is the most valuable thing anyone can do.
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On April 18 2012 10:39 shinosai wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 10:36 Xanbatou wrote:On April 18 2012 10:27 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2012 10:24 Elegance wrote:On April 18 2012 10:21 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2012 10:19 Xanbatou wrote:
There is a student debt problem? I wasn't aware of it. I have a student loan for about 25k and I'm almost finished with my bachelor's in CS. I already have a couple jobs lined up for after I graduate that will pay quite well. I expect to be able to pay off all my loans within the first couple years.
IMO, the problem is people spending exorbitant sums of money on degrees in areas that are relatively worthless to society. There is a huge demand for engineers, so go get an engineering degree. You have no right to complain about student loans when you paid 30k a year at a private school getting a degree in Latin. We don't bail out people who waste all their money investing in some shitty startup, why should we bail out people who waste on their money on a useless degree? Getting a job in engineering would make many, many people incredibly miserable. It's a pretty dreadful 9 to 5 job, really. And because having a dreadful 9 to 5 job is well.... dreadful, you would choose a useless degree over it and waste a shit ton of money and probably end up unemployed? God yes, I'd probably be happier with 30k from a social sciences degree with a decent job than 50-60k from an engineering degree designing stuff according to sometimes ridiculous and unnecessary standards and codes. For some people it's awesome, for others it isn't. I'm getting my masters in political sciences and I'll end up with the same salary as someone with an engineering bachelor (which takes 2 years less to get). Worth it. Would've been worth it even if I made less. Engineering -_- ugh On April 18 2012 10:26 Xanbatou wrote:On April 18 2012 10:21 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2012 10:19 Xanbatou wrote:
There is a student debt problem? I wasn't aware of it. I have a student loan for about 25k and I'm almost finished with my bachelor's in CS. I already have a couple jobs lined up for after I graduate that will pay quite well. I expect to be able to pay off all my loans within the first couple years.
IMO, the problem is people spending exorbitant sums of money on degrees in areas that are relatively worthless to society. There is a huge demand for engineers, so go get an engineering degree. You have no right to complain about student loans when you paid 30k a year at a private school getting a degree in Latin. We don't bail out people who waste all their money investing in some shitty startup, why should we bail out people who waste on their money on a useless degree? Getting a job in engineering would make many, many people incredibly miserable. It's a pretty dreadful 9 to 5 job, really. I think a 9 to 5 job in engineering is better than being a barista at starbucks (or something equivalent), which is what happens to many people with useless degrees. I know a girl who got a degree in international relations at a private school. She spent a huge amount of money there and is now in a lot of debt, and she can't find a job anywhere that actually uses the degree she earned. Well if she looked harder for a semi-decent job, she could get something in her field. It may not lead to a lot of money, but it wouldn't be Starbucks. Her fault. You are right, though. Some people just are not cut out for or are not interested in STEM majors. However, it's a bit silly to pay the same for your degree as someone in a STEM field since they will usually make so much more. Since education is basically teaching you how to contribute to society, I think the degrees should be valued accordingly. People that receive degrees that have lower associated salary should pay less for their education, IMO. I don't think that's feasible though =/. I really don't think this is the purpose of education at all, but we've somehow transformed education into this contest of how to better benefit the state.
It's not the purpose of education, but it is the purpose of a degree and enrolling in University. If you just wanted to learn, you could sit in on any university class and nobody would care. You are not paying for education, you are paying for a degree.
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On April 18 2012 10:25 acerockolla wrote:
Btw, this proposed legislation is an example of the real issue our country is facing. Rather than attempt to deal with the real problems inherit with student loans, schools increasing tuition, interest rates, and whatever else there is, politicians rather make headlines with garbage legislation that polarizes the populace while getting absolutely nothing done.
Exactly, you get elected and re-elected by telling people what they want to hear, you promise them everything under the sun, free ponies for all! The vast majority of the population is so stupid they fall for it. Everyone complains about the outrageous government spending but the second any politician talks about actually cutting anything they get demagogued to death by their opponents "You hate children! You hate the environment! You hate the military! You hate seniors!" etc.
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EPT
