On April 18 2012 10:19 Xanbatou wrote: There is a student debt problem? I wasn't aware of it. I have a student loan for about 25k and I'm almost finished with my bachelor's in CS. I already have a couple jobs lined up for after I graduate that will pay quite well. I expect to be able to pay off all my loans within the first couple years.
IMO, the problem is people spending exorbitant sums of money on degrees in areas that are relatively worthless to society. There is a huge demand for engineers, so go get an engineering degree. You have no right to complain about student loans when you paid 30k a year at a private school getting a degree in Latin. We don't bail out people who waste all their money investing in some shitty startup, why should we bail out people who waste on their money on a useless degree?
Getting a job in engineering would make many, many people incredibly miserable. It's a pretty dreadful 9 to 5 job, really.
And because having a dreadful 9 to 5 job is well.... dreadful, you would choose a useless degree over it and waste a shit ton of money and probably end up unemployed?
God yes, I'd probably be happier with 30k from a social sciences degree with a decent job than 50-60k from an engineering degree designing stuff according to sometimes ridiculous and unnecessary standards and codes.
For some people it's awesome, for others it isn't. I'm getting my masters in political sciences and I'll end up with the same salary as someone with an engineering bachelor (which takes 2 years less to get). Worth it. Would've been worth it even if I made less.
Engineering -_- ugh
On April 18 2012 10:26 Xanbatou wrote:
On April 18 2012 10:21 Djzapz wrote:
On April 18 2012 10:19 Xanbatou wrote: There is a student debt problem? I wasn't aware of it. I have a student loan for about 25k and I'm almost finished with my bachelor's in CS. I already have a couple jobs lined up for after I graduate that will pay quite well. I expect to be able to pay off all my loans within the first couple years.
IMO, the problem is people spending exorbitant sums of money on degrees in areas that are relatively worthless to society. There is a huge demand for engineers, so go get an engineering degree. You have no right to complain about student loans when you paid 30k a year at a private school getting a degree in Latin. We don't bail out people who waste all their money investing in some shitty startup, why should we bail out people who waste on their money on a useless degree?
Getting a job in engineering would make many, many people incredibly miserable. It's a pretty dreadful 9 to 5 job, really.
I think a 9 to 5 job in engineering is better than being a barista at starbucks (or something equivalent), which is what happens to many people with useless degrees. I know a girl who got a degree in international relations at a private school. She spent a huge amount of money there and is now in a lot of debt, and she can't find a job anywhere that actually uses the degree she earned.
Well if she looked harder for a semi-decent job, she could get something in her field. It may not lead to a lot of money, but it wouldn't be Starbucks. Her fault.
You are right, though. Some people just are not cut out for or are not interested in STEM majors. However, it's a bit silly to pay the same for your degree as someone in a STEM field since they will usually make so much more. Since education is basically teaching you how to contribute to society, I think the degrees should be valued accordingly. People that receive degrees that have lower associated salary should pay less for their education, IMO. I don't think that's feasible though =/.
I really don't think this is the purpose of education at all, but we've somehow transformed education into this contest of how to better benefit the state.
Pretty much. The fact that education is all about getting a job is one of our great failures.
The reason they have so many options for degrees is so that you find something you're interested in and delve as deep into it as possible. The purpose of getting any degree is to teach you how to learn. This is what helps you earn your money in life; not the material you learn, but your ability to adapt to the changing world.
Your degree was never meant to be an indicator of your future career. This is a common misconception.
The onus is on the graduate to use the processes he learned in college to carve himself something in the real world, whatever that might be. Most people probably don't like that idea or have trouble accepting it which is probably why there's so much confusion in the first place.
On April 18 2012 10:25 acerockolla wrote: Btw, this proposed legislation is an example of the real issue our country is facing. Rather than attempt to deal with the real problems inherit with student loans, schools increasing tuition, interest rates, and whatever else there is, politicians rather make headlines with garbage legislation that polarizes the populace while getting absolutely nothing done.
Exactly, you get elected and re-elected by telling people what they want to hear, you promise them everything under the sun, free ponies for all! The vast majority of the population is so stupid they fall for it. Everyone complains about the outrageous government spending but the second any politician talks about actually cutting anything they get demagogued to death by their opponents "You hate children! You hate the environment! You hate the military! You hate seniors!" etc.
No, you get elected for telling banks and lenders that you have found a way for them to make free money riding the education bubble. You will pass a law that makes it impossible to discharge the debt through bankruptcy, freeing you to loan to every person who asks for the money. The rest of society does its part by telling its young citizens, "You must go to college. An education is the most important investment you can make in your future. You need it to get a job."
Then the subprime mortgage bubble comes (caused by the same predatory lending practices and egregious profiteering of the banking industry) and all the jobs evaporate. Growth stops.
Then society stops giving jobs to young people who have no experience, and scolds them for taking loans they couldn't afford to pay back. The young people can never escape the debt trap, because even if they declare bankruptcy, their future paychecks will be docked money until all the money they owe their educational loan provider is paid back with interest.
On April 18 2012 10:19 Xanbatou wrote: There is a student debt problem? I wasn't aware of it. I have a student loan for about 25k and I'm almost finished with my bachelor's in CS. I already have a couple jobs lined up for after I graduate that will pay quite well. I expect to be able to pay off all my loans within the first couple years.
IMO, the problem is people spending exorbitant sums of money on degrees in areas that are relatively worthless to society. There is a huge demand for engineers, so go get an engineering degree. You have no right to complain about student loans when you paid 30k a year at a private school getting a degree in Latin. We don't bail out people who waste all their money investing in some shitty startup, why should we bail out people who waste on their money on a useless degree?
Getting a job in engineering would make many, many people incredibly miserable. It's a pretty dreadful 9 to 5 job, really.
And because having a dreadful 9 to 5 job is well.... dreadful, you would choose a useless degree over it and waste a shit ton of money and probably end up unemployed?
God yes, I'd probably be happier with 30k from a social sciences degree with a decent job than 50-60k from an engineering degree designing stuff according to sometimes ridiculous and unnecessary standards and codes.
For some people it's awesome, for others it isn't. I'm getting my masters in political sciences and I'll end up with the same salary as someone with an engineering bachelor (which takes 2 years less to get). Worth it. Would've been worth it even if I made less.
Engineering -_- ugh
On April 18 2012 10:26 Xanbatou wrote:
On April 18 2012 10:21 Djzapz wrote:
On April 18 2012 10:19 Xanbatou wrote: There is a student debt problem? I wasn't aware of it. I have a student loan for about 25k and I'm almost finished with my bachelor's in CS. I already have a couple jobs lined up for after I graduate that will pay quite well. I expect to be able to pay off all my loans within the first couple years.
IMO, the problem is people spending exorbitant sums of money on degrees in areas that are relatively worthless to society. There is a huge demand for engineers, so go get an engineering degree. You have no right to complain about student loans when you paid 30k a year at a private school getting a degree in Latin. We don't bail out people who waste all their money investing in some shitty startup, why should we bail out people who waste on their money on a useless degree?
Getting a job in engineering would make many, many people incredibly miserable. It's a pretty dreadful 9 to 5 job, really.
I think a 9 to 5 job in engineering is better than being a barista at starbucks (or something equivalent), which is what happens to many people with useless degrees. I know a girl who got a degree in international relations at a private school. She spent a huge amount of money there and is now in a lot of debt, and she can't find a job anywhere that actually uses the degree she earned.
Well if she looked harder for a semi-decent job, she could get something in her field. It may not lead to a lot of money, but it wouldn't be Starbucks. Her fault.
You are right, though. Some people just are not cut out for or are not interested in STEM majors. However, it's a bit silly to pay the same for your degree as someone in a STEM field since they will usually make so much more. Since education is basically teaching you how to contribute to society, I think the degrees should be valued accordingly. People that receive degrees that have lower associated salary should pay less for their education, IMO. I don't think that's feasible though =/.
I really don't think this is the purpose of education at all, but we've somehow transformed education into this contest of how to better benefit the state.
Pretty much. The fact that education is all about getting a job is one of our great failures.
Again, education is not about getting a job. You don't have to pay for education. Like I said, you can just walk into any university and sit in on the classes and nobody will bat an eye. You are paying for the degree. You are paying for formal recognition that you completed a certain set of classes. There's no need for formal recognition for anything, except to prove to other people (employers) that you are at least semi-capable of learning things in a particular subject area.
yes lets forgive everyone who got a $50k liberal arts/arts/whatever degree that everyone told them wouldn't get them a job but still the majority get one of these types of degrees, and now they have no job and can't pay it off.
Also I forgot to tell you, but, the majority do NOT get liberal arts degrees. To fully debunk your lie:
According to the National Center for Education Statistics, humanities majors account for about 12 percent of recent graduates, and art history majors are so rare they’re lost in the noise. They account for less than 0.2 percent of working adults with college degrees, a number that is probably about right for recent graduates, too. Yet somehow art history has become the go-to example for people bemoaning the state of higher education.
A longtime acquaintance perfectly captured the dominant Internet memes in an e-mail he sent me after my last column, which was on rising tuitions. “Many people that go to college lack the smarts and/or the tenacity to benefit in any real sense,” he wrote. “Many of these people would be much better off becoming plumbers -- including financially. (No shame in that, who’re you gonna call when your pipes freeze in the middle of the night? An M.A. in Italian art?)”
While government subsidies may indeed distort the choice to go to college in the first place, it’s simply not the case that students are blissfully ignoring the job market in choosing majors. Contrary to what critics imagine, most Americans in fact go to college for what they believe to be “skill-based education.”
A quarter of them study business, by far the most popular field, and 16 percent major in one of the so-called Stem (science, technology, engineering and math) fields. Throw in economics, and you have nearly half of all graduates studying the only subjects such contemptuous pundits recognize as respectable.
The rest, however, aren’t sitting around discussing Aristotle and Foucault.
Most are studying things that sound like job preparation, including all sorts of subjects related to health and education. Even the degree with the highest rate of unemployment -- architecture, whose 13.9 percent jobless rate reflects the current construction bust -- is a pre-professional major. Diversity of Jobs The students who come out of school without jobs aren’t, for the most part, starry-eyed liberal arts majors but rather people who thought a degree in business, graphic design or nursing was a practical, job-oriented credential. Even the latest target of Internet mockery, a young woman the New York Times recently described as studying for a master’s in communication with hopes of doing public relations for a nonprofit, is in what she perceives as a job-training program.
The higher-education system does have real problems, including rising tuition prices that may not pay off in higher earnings. But those problems won’t be solved by assuming that if American students would just stop studying stupid subjects like philosophy and art history and buckle down and major in petroleum engineering (the highest-paid major), the economy would flourish and everyone would have lucrative careers.
On April 18 2012 10:19 Xanbatou wrote: There is a student debt problem? I wasn't aware of it. I have a student loan for about 25k and I'm almost finished with my bachelor's in CS. I already have a couple jobs lined up for after I graduate that will pay quite well. I expect to be able to pay off all my loans within the first couple years.
IMO, the problem is people spending exorbitant sums of money on degrees in areas that are relatively worthless to society. There is a huge demand for engineers, so go get an engineering degree. You have no right to complain about student loans when you paid 30k a year at a private school getting a degree in Latin. We don't bail out people who waste all their money investing in some shitty startup, why should we bail out people who waste on their money on a useless degree?
Getting a job in engineering would make many, many people incredibly miserable. It's a pretty dreadful 9 to 5 job, really.
And because having a dreadful 9 to 5 job is well.... dreadful, you would choose a useless degree over it and waste a shit ton of money and probably end up unemployed?
God yes, I'd probably be happier with 30k from a social sciences degree with a decent job than 50-60k from an engineering degree designing stuff according to sometimes ridiculous and unnecessary standards and codes.
For some people it's awesome, for others it isn't. I'm getting my masters in political sciences and I'll end up with the same salary as someone with an engineering bachelor (which takes 2 years less to get). Worth it. Would've been worth it even if I made less.
Engineering -_- ugh
On April 18 2012 10:26 Xanbatou wrote:
On April 18 2012 10:21 Djzapz wrote:
On April 18 2012 10:19 Xanbatou wrote: There is a student debt problem? I wasn't aware of it. I have a student loan for about 25k and I'm almost finished with my bachelor's in CS. I already have a couple jobs lined up for after I graduate that will pay quite well. I expect to be able to pay off all my loans within the first couple years.
IMO, the problem is people spending exorbitant sums of money on degrees in areas that are relatively worthless to society. There is a huge demand for engineers, so go get an engineering degree. You have no right to complain about student loans when you paid 30k a year at a private school getting a degree in Latin. We don't bail out people who waste all their money investing in some shitty startup, why should we bail out people who waste on their money on a useless degree?
Getting a job in engineering would make many, many people incredibly miserable. It's a pretty dreadful 9 to 5 job, really.
I think a 9 to 5 job in engineering is better than being a barista at starbucks (or something equivalent), which is what happens to many people with useless degrees. I know a girl who got a degree in international relations at a private school. She spent a huge amount of money there and is now in a lot of debt, and she can't find a job anywhere that actually uses the degree she earned.
Well if she looked harder for a semi-decent job, she could get something in her field. It may not lead to a lot of money, but it wouldn't be Starbucks. Her fault.
You are right, though. Some people just are not cut out for or are not interested in STEM majors. However, it's a bit silly to pay the same for your degree as someone in a STEM field since they will usually make so much more. Since education is basically teaching you how to contribute to society, I think the degrees should be valued accordingly. People that receive degrees that have lower associated salary should pay less for their education, IMO. I don't think that's feasible though =/.
I really don't think this is the purpose of education at all, but we've somehow transformed education into this contest of how to better benefit the state.
Pretty much. The fact that education is all about getting a job is one of our great failures.
Again, education is not about getting a job. You don't have to pay for education. Like I said, you can just walk into any university and sit in on the classes and nobody will bat an eye. You are paying for the degree. You are paying for formal recognition that you completed a certain set of classes. There's no need for formal recognition for anything, except to prove to other people (employers) that you are at least semi-capable of learning things in a particular subject area.
I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to be in a class if you're not paying to be there. It's not enforced for the most part, but you're not supposed to be there anyway.
Yes, you pay for the education. The recognition costs them nothing. Providing education does.
Originally $17,500 USD of school debt. Would of cost me another $5,000 to finish degree. Don't ask me how or why, because I don't know either.
Four years of college. Two community (paid cash). Two University (loans). No degree. Three to four classes away from BA in Biological Sciences. Soft science, but better than liberal arts degree. HA!
Current debt: $10,000. One year after decision to quit school. By this time next year I should have no debt what so ever. Will be 100% debt free. How? Work. Any job you can find. There are jobs out there shut the fuck up. There are jobs out there shut the fuck up. Not jobs you will like. Not jobs that are easy. Not desk jobs. But there are jobs out there. You'll get dirty, you'll get sweaty, you'll hate life, but there's a job out there. Plenty of them. Take what you can get. Beggars can't be choosers.
My parents repeatedly told me hundreds of times that the interest would eat me. It has. And that they are willing to pay my entire debt. I said no. To this day they tell me that they are willing to pay it off. I say, no. My debt, my decision, my problem. They are not wealthy, but have savings. The debt, like this forgiveness law as many have stated before me will not magically make the debt disappear. Someone will pay it for you in one way or another.
Yes it sucks. And people basically pray on students and make them feel entrapped to go to college and get a degree. Ultimately it was your decision and your decision alone. I'm against the law. And not just because I'm almost out of debt and for me it would seem "unfair" that people will get off for free while I paid my way out. It's not that; it's because the amount of people that would take advantage of this would be massive. If they won't be held responsible for their actions now. What's to stop them from doing this again with a car or a house?
Your decisions. Just like it is the decision of a girl I know to be $100,000 in student debt and buy a brand new $26,000 car. While I've been riding a bicycle for almost a year now.
You'll find a way to make it work. In one way or another. In one shitty job or another. Those who are in debt. You'll work your way up and get out eventually little by little. Not from one day to the next like this law offers, but little by little. If you don't you'll learn nothing and just have another piece of paper - this one having fancy wording saying loan forgiveness.
On April 18 2012 10:19 Xanbatou wrote: There is a student debt problem? I wasn't aware of it. I have a student loan for about 25k and I'm almost finished with my bachelor's in CS. I already have a couple jobs lined up for after I graduate that will pay quite well. I expect to be able to pay off all my loans within the first couple years.
IMO, the problem is people spending exorbitant sums of money on degrees in areas that are relatively worthless to society. There is a huge demand for engineers, so go get an engineering degree. You have no right to complain about student loans when you paid 30k a year at a private school getting a degree in Latin. We don't bail out people who waste all their money investing in some shitty startup, why should we bail out people who waste on their money on a useless degree?
Getting a job in engineering would make many, many people incredibly miserable. It's a pretty dreadful 9 to 5 job, really.
And because having a dreadful 9 to 5 job is well.... dreadful, you would choose a useless degree over it and waste a shit ton of money and probably end up unemployed?
God yes, I'd probably be happier with 30k from a social sciences degree with a decent job than 50-60k from an engineering degree designing stuff according to sometimes ridiculous and unnecessary standards and codes.
For some people it's awesome, for others it isn't. I'm getting my masters in political sciences and I'll end up with the same salary as someone with an engineering bachelor (which takes 2 years less to get). Worth it. Would've been worth it even if I made less.
Engineering -_- ugh
On April 18 2012 10:26 Xanbatou wrote:
On April 18 2012 10:21 Djzapz wrote:
On April 18 2012 10:19 Xanbatou wrote: There is a student debt problem? I wasn't aware of it. I have a student loan for about 25k and I'm almost finished with my bachelor's in CS. I already have a couple jobs lined up for after I graduate that will pay quite well. I expect to be able to pay off all my loans within the first couple years.
IMO, the problem is people spending exorbitant sums of money on degrees in areas that are relatively worthless to society. There is a huge demand for engineers, so go get an engineering degree. You have no right to complain about student loans when you paid 30k a year at a private school getting a degree in Latin. We don't bail out people who waste all their money investing in some shitty startup, why should we bail out people who waste on their money on a useless degree?
Getting a job in engineering would make many, many people incredibly miserable. It's a pretty dreadful 9 to 5 job, really.
I think a 9 to 5 job in engineering is better than being a barista at starbucks (or something equivalent), which is what happens to many people with useless degrees. I know a girl who got a degree in international relations at a private school. She spent a huge amount of money there and is now in a lot of debt, and she can't find a job anywhere that actually uses the degree she earned.
Well if she looked harder for a semi-decent job, she could get something in her field. It may not lead to a lot of money, but it wouldn't be Starbucks. Her fault.
You are right, though. Some people just are not cut out for or are not interested in STEM majors. However, it's a bit silly to pay the same for your degree as someone in a STEM field since they will usually make so much more. Since education is basically teaching you how to contribute to society, I think the degrees should be valued accordingly. People that receive degrees that have lower associated salary should pay less for their education, IMO. I don't think that's feasible though =/.
I really don't think this is the purpose of education at all, but we've somehow transformed education into this contest of how to better benefit the state.
Pretty much. The fact that education is all about getting a job is one of our great failures.
Again, education is not about getting a job. You don't have to pay for education. Like I said, you can just walk into any university and sit in on the classes and nobody will bat an eye. You are paying for the degree. You are paying for formal recognition that you completed a certain set of classes. There's no need for formal recognition for anything, except to prove to other people (employers) that you are at least semi-capable of learning things in a particular subject area.
the bold part is just completely incorrect. You definitely cannot just show up to any respectable university/college and sit in a class. You'll get your ass booted out so fast your head would spin.
Education:
Originally $17,500 USD of school debt. Would of cost me another $5,000 to finish degree. Don't ask me how or why, because I don't know either.
Four years of college. Two community (paid cash). Two University (loans). No degree. Three to four classes away from BA in Biological Sciences. Soft science, but better than liberal arts degree. HA!
Current debt: $10,000. One year after decision to quit school. By this time next year I should have no debt what so ever. Will be 100% debt free. How? Work. Any job you can find. There are jobs out there shut the fuck up. There are jobs out there shut the fuck up. Not jobs you will like. Not jobs that are easy. Not desk jobs. But there are jobs out there. You'll get dirty, you'll get sweaty, you'll hate life, but there's a job out there. Plenty of them. Take what you can get. Beggars can't be choosers.
My parents repeatedly told me hundreds of times that the interest would eat me. It has. And that they are willing to pay my entire debt. I said no. To this day they tell me that they are willing to pay it off. I say, no. My debt, my decision, my problem. They are not wealthy, but have savings. The debt, like this forgiveness law as many have stated before me will not magically make the debt disappear. Someone will pay it for you in one way or another.
Yes it sucks. And people basically pray on students and make them feel entrapped to go to college and get a degree. Ultimately it was your decision and your decision alone. I'm against the law. And not just because I'm almost out of debt and for me it would seem "unfair" that people will get off for free while I paid my way out. It's not that; it's because the amount of people that would take advantage of this would be massive. If they won't be held responsible for their actions now. What's to stop them from doing this again with a car or a house?
Your decisions. Just like it is the decision of a girl I know to be $100,000 in student debt and buy a brand new $26,000 car. While I've been riding a bicycle for almost a year now.
You'll find a way to make it work. In one way or another. In one shitty job or another. Those who are in debt. You'll work your way up and get out eventually little by little. Not from one day to the next like this law offers, but little by little. If you don't you'll learn nothing and just have another piece of paper - this one having fancy wording saying loan forgiveness.
It's an incredibly simple concept that there are NOT jobs out there for everyone. It's not like every unemployed person is sitting on his ass not looking for a job. Just because you were able to find one doesn't mean everyone can.
Again, part of the problem of the education system. Everyone thinks you HAVE to have a degree to get a job, when right now it does nothing, except bloat the system, and end up devaluing the degree itself. If everyone has a degree, everyone might as well not have it as well. So instead you get people who just party it up, because they shouldn't be there anyways, bloat the wallets of the universities themselves to pad the salaries of presidents/chancellors, and sports teams, etc, while simultaneously putting the entire american demographic of young adults into monstrous debt that they have NO WAY of paying themselves out of because there simply aren't enough jobs out there for these people who were sold a LIE from the day they got into high school.
Except that you do need a degree to get the vast, vast majority of respectable jobs that have room for advancement in them (unless you are going to become the next Bill Gates, but if everyone did that it would completely defeat the purpose - that's not a practical answer to the problem). If less people had the degree, the value of it goes up and there will be no reason to hire someone who doesn't have the degree over someone that does. If everyone DOES have the degree, the value goes down, but employers still say, "Why the hell don't you have a bachelor's?" and you don't get the job.
No matter which way you go, in this day in age, unless you're going into a technical field or flipping burgers/doing retail, you need a bachelor's.
On April 18 2012 10:53 BuGzlToOnl wrote: Education:
Originally $17,500 USD of school debt. Would of cost me another $5,000 to finish degree. Don't ask me how or why, because I don't know either.
Four years of college. Two community (paid cash). Two University (loans). No degree. Three to four classes away from BA in Biological Sciences. Soft science, but better than liberal arts degree. HA!
Current debt: $10,000. One year after decision to quit school. By this time next year I should have no debt what so ever. Will be 100% debt free. How? Work. Any job you can find. There are jobs out there shut the fuck up. There are jobs out there shut the fuck up. Not jobs you will like. Not jobs that are easy. Not desk jobs. But there are jobs out there. You'll get dirty, you'll get sweaty, you'll hate life, but there's a job out there. Plenty of them. Take what you can get. Beggars can't be choosers.
My parents repeatedly told me hundreds of times that the interest would eat me. It has. And that they are willing to pay my entire debt. I said no. To this day they tell me that they are willing to pay it off. I say, no. My debt, my decision, my problem. They are not wealthy, but have savings. The debt, like this forgiveness law as many have stated before me will not magically make the debt disappear. Someone will pay it for you in one way or another.
Yes it sucks. And people basically pray on students and make them feel entrapped to go to college and get a degree. Ultimately it was your decision and your decision alone. I'm against the law. And not just because I'm almost out of debt and for me it would seem "unfair" that people will get off for free while I paid my way out. It's not that; it's because the amount of people that would take advantage of this would be massive. If they won't be held responsible for their actions now. What's to stop them from doing this again with a car or a house?
Your decisions. Just like it is the decision of a girl I know to be $100,000 in student debt and buy a brand new $26,000 car. While I've been riding a bicycle for almost a year now.
You'll find a way to make it work. In one way or another. In one shitty job or another. Those who are in debt. You'll work your way up and get out eventually little by little. Not from one day to the next like this law offers, but little by little. If you don't you'll learn nothing and just have another piece of paper - this one having fancy wording saying loan forgiveness.
On April 18 2012 10:19 Xanbatou wrote: There is a student debt problem? I wasn't aware of it. I have a student loan for about 25k and I'm almost finished with my bachelor's in CS. I already have a couple jobs lined up for after I graduate that will pay quite well. I expect to be able to pay off all my loans within the first couple years.
IMO, the problem is people spending exorbitant sums of money on degrees in areas that are relatively worthless to society. There is a huge demand for engineers, so go get an engineering degree. You have no right to complain about student loans when you paid 30k a year at a private school getting a degree in Latin. We don't bail out people who waste all their money investing in some shitty startup, why should we bail out people who waste on their money on a useless degree?
Getting a job in engineering would make many, many people incredibly miserable. It's a pretty dreadful 9 to 5 job, really.
And because having a dreadful 9 to 5 job is well.... dreadful, you would choose a useless degree over it and waste a shit ton of money and probably end up unemployed?
God yes, I'd probably be happier with 30k from a social sciences degree with a decent job than 50-60k from an engineering degree designing stuff according to sometimes ridiculous and unnecessary standards and codes.
For some people it's awesome, for others it isn't. I'm getting my masters in political sciences and I'll end up with the same salary as someone with an engineering bachelor (which takes 2 years less to get). Worth it. Would've been worth it even if I made less.
Engineering -_- ugh
On April 18 2012 10:26 Xanbatou wrote:
On April 18 2012 10:21 Djzapz wrote:
On April 18 2012 10:19 Xanbatou wrote: There is a student debt problem? I wasn't aware of it. I have a student loan for about 25k and I'm almost finished with my bachelor's in CS. I already have a couple jobs lined up for after I graduate that will pay quite well. I expect to be able to pay off all my loans within the first couple years.
IMO, the problem is people spending exorbitant sums of money on degrees in areas that are relatively worthless to society. There is a huge demand for engineers, so go get an engineering degree. You have no right to complain about student loans when you paid 30k a year at a private school getting a degree in Latin. We don't bail out people who waste all their money investing in some shitty startup, why should we bail out people who waste on their money on a useless degree?
Getting a job in engineering would make many, many people incredibly miserable. It's a pretty dreadful 9 to 5 job, really.
I think a 9 to 5 job in engineering is better than being a barista at starbucks (or something equivalent), which is what happens to many people with useless degrees. I know a girl who got a degree in international relations at a private school. She spent a huge amount of money there and is now in a lot of debt, and she can't find a job anywhere that actually uses the degree she earned.
Well if she looked harder for a semi-decent job, she could get something in her field. It may not lead to a lot of money, but it wouldn't be Starbucks. Her fault.
You are right, though. Some people just are not cut out for or are not interested in STEM majors. However, it's a bit silly to pay the same for your degree as someone in a STEM field since they will usually make so much more. Since education is basically teaching you how to contribute to society, I think the degrees should be valued accordingly. People that receive degrees that have lower associated salary should pay less for their education, IMO. I don't think that's feasible though =/.
I really don't think this is the purpose of education at all, but we've somehow transformed education into this contest of how to better benefit the state.
Pretty much. The fact that education is all about getting a job is one of our great failures.
Again, education is not about getting a job. You don't have to pay for education. Like I said, you can just walk into any university and sit in on the classes and nobody will bat an eye. You are paying for the degree. You are paying for formal recognition that you completed a certain set of classes. There's no need for formal recognition for anything, except to prove to other people (employers) that you are at least semi-capable of learning things in a particular subject area.
the bold part is just completely incorrect. You definitely cannot just show up to any respectable university/college and sit in a class. You'll get your ass booted out so fast your head would spin.
Originally $17,500 USD of school debt. Would of cost me another $5,000 to finish degree. Don't ask me how or why, because I don't know either.
Four years of college. Two community (paid cash). Two University (loans). No degree. Three to four classes away from BA in Biological Sciences. Soft science, but better than liberal arts degree. HA!
Current debt: $10,000. One year after decision to quit school. By this time next year I should have no debt what so ever. Will be 100% debt free. How? Work. Any job you can find. There are jobs out there shut the fuck up. There are jobs out there shut the fuck up. Not jobs you will like. Not jobs that are easy. Not desk jobs. But there are jobs out there. You'll get dirty, you'll get sweaty, you'll hate life, but there's a job out there. Plenty of them. Take what you can get. Beggars can't be choosers.
My parents repeatedly told me hundreds of times that the interest would eat me. It has. And that they are willing to pay my entire debt. I said no. To this day they tell me that they are willing to pay it off. I say, no. My debt, my decision, my problem. They are not wealthy, but have savings. The debt, like this forgiveness law as many have stated before me will not magically make the debt disappear. Someone will pay it for you in one way or another.
Yes it sucks. And people basically pray on students and make them feel entrapped to go to college and get a degree. Ultimately it was your decision and your decision alone. I'm against the law. And not just because I'm almost out of debt and for me it would seem "unfair" that people will get off for free while I paid my way out. It's not that; it's because the amount of people that would take advantage of this would be massive. If they won't be held responsible for their actions now. What's to stop them from doing this again with a car or a house?
Your decisions. Just like it is the decision of a girl I know to be $100,000 in student debt and buy a brand new $26,000 car. While I've been riding a bicycle for almost a year now.
You'll find a way to make it work. In one way or another. In one shitty job or another. Those who are in debt. You'll work your way up and get out eventually little by little. Not from one day to the next like this law offers, but little by little. If you don't you'll learn nothing and just have another piece of paper - this one having fancy wording saying loan forgiveness.
It's an incredibly simple concept that there are NOT jobs out there for everyone. It's not like every unemployed person is sitting on his ass not looking for a job. Just because you were able to find one doesn't mean everyone can.
There are jobs out there for everyone. I've have always been able to find a job. Open any newspaper, you'll find companies looking for people to hire. Be it factory, warehouse, field work, pizza delivery anything there are jobs.
If you would say there are no jobs that I like or that I can use my degree in than I would agree with you. But menial, meaningless jobs that give you no self worth and you hate. There everywhere.
On April 18 2012 09:20 sc2superfan101 wrote: i dont like it. no one forgave my parents student loans that they spent years working off, so why does anyone else deserve it? balderdash.
On April 18 2012 10:16 IgnE wrote: Except that you can't discharge your student loans through bankruptcy in the United States thanks George Bush and his financial industry lobbyists. You are stuck with them for life.
Ordinarily loans are an investment, and as such, a risk. Lenders risk the money on people they think can pay them. They take a risk just as much as the borrower does. The lender risks the capital, and the borrower risks having to go into bankruptcy. That's capitalism. But when the borrower can't even declare bankruptcy, it becomes free money for the lender, who is encouraged to loan as much money to as many people as possible.
So when 2008 happens, and the finance industry fucks over everyone, the borrowers, who were promised nothing but growth and jobs for anyone who got educated at college, are left holding the bag, while the lenders still get to collect all the free money they offered.
All of the conservative/libertarians here need to get a grip and come back to reality. Student default hurts everyone and the lenders are just as culpable, if not more culpable than some naive college students who were just doing what everyone else told them to do.
Please note that the following is an example of what many people have said so far in this thread, with added racism and slut-shaming. BUT I DON'T WANT MY HARD EARNED TAXED MONEY FROM CRUSHING PIG ANUSES WITH MY BARE HANDS FOR THE LAST 40 YEARS TO GO TO SOME LAZY (BLACK) SORORITY (SLUT) WHO IS TOO LAZY TO GET A JOB AND WORK HARD FOR A LIVING RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE! Why the racism and slut shaming you ask? Because these kinds of posts are moronic drivel based on the same bad assumptions which dominate this thread. For example: Racism! + Show Spoiler +
I DON'T WANT MY HARD EARN... GOING TO WELFARE BECAUSE IT'S ALL GOING TO GO TO BLACK PEOPLE WHO SIT AROUND DRINKING ALL DAY AND NOT GETTING A DAMN JOB! Problems: This statement assumes that black people are the majority of welfare recipients. This statement assumes that the majority of black people on welfare are not looking for a job and are partying hard!
I DON'T WANT MY... GOING TO FREE CONTRACEPTION FOR SLUTS SO THEY CAN HAVE SEX WITHOUT CONSEQUENCES! Problems: Women who use hormone pills are all apparently sluts... OK... This statement also assumes that making birth control pills more accessible is likely to lessen the risk of unwanted pregnancies (which I have always assumed is the intended meaning of 'consequences' in these types of discussions, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). That assumption is probably correct. This leads me to wonder what is wrong with our government, and this heinous idea that might prevent unwanted pregnancies.
I DON'T WANT MY... TO GO TO SOME DEGENERATE LIBERAL HIPPIE WHO GOT A DEGREE IN THEATRE AND DIDN'T FIND A JOB! THAT HIPPIE SHOULD HAVE GONE TO COMMUNITY COLLEGE WITH THE REST OF THE POOR PEOPLE! THOSE HIPPIES SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE RESPONSIBLE! INSTEAD OF DRINKING AND PARTYING ALL THE TIME THEY SHOULD HAVE HAD A PART TIME JOB! Problems: Assuming that the majority of people with large student loans are financially irresponsible. Assuming that people with large student loans don't have a job and aren't currently making payments. Assuming that every field of study is available at a community college level or at a state college/within reasonable commute from a parent's house where they could live for free. Assuming that the people who drink and party their asses off in college are the ones in financial trouble. Assuming that the burden of financial responsibility lies on the person who takes out a loan. This is usually followed up by some statement about a "free market". This is probably one of the dumbest and most aggravating things in this thread.
The responsibility for a loan in a free market lies between both the lender and the recipient. The responsibility for a student loan rests entirely on the student, because unlike traditional loans, the student cannot file for bankruptcy. This means that there is zero culpability to the lender for giving out loans.
Here is a dramatic post along the same lines as many in this thread, only this time it blames the lender instead of the recipient: 35 years old, never had a job? $40,000 in debt? Living off welfare? Well here's your loan for $80,000! Thank you for coming to Sallie Mae!
TL;DR: Morons believe the typical Republocrat bullshit, spout about paying taxes to vermin who live off of handouts, while Sallie Mae sits back and makes a cool trillion while laughing at this whole discussion, university costs go up, and the poor get poorer (and dumber thank god, otherwise they wouldn't be as easy to control).
Also apologies for the slightly offtopic post, I originally only meant to use the first two as brief examples but I ended up collecting my thoughts on two other topics.
User was warned for this post (for referring to people as 'morons').
It's an incredibly simple concept that there are NOT jobs out there for everyone. It's not like every unemployed person is sitting on his ass not looking for a job. Just because you were able to find one doesn't mean everyone can.
There are many many many jobs available right now. Just not the jobs they want in the place they want or in the field they want. There are a lot of jobs out there.
I paid for all my schooling by working nights, no government aid came my way and I sure as hell don't want my taxes going to people who could do the same. The US college system is a fucking scam to begin with but if you're going to play their game you better be able to cover your own loses.
On April 18 2012 10:19 Xanbatou wrote: There is a student debt problem? I wasn't aware of it. I have a student loan for about 25k and I'm almost finished with my bachelor's in CS. I already have a couple jobs lined up for after I graduate that will pay quite well. I expect to be able to pay off all my loans within the first couple years.
IMO, the problem is people spending exorbitant sums of money on degrees in areas that are relatively worthless to society. There is a huge demand for engineers, so go get an engineering degree. You have no right to complain about student loans when you paid 30k a year at a private school getting a degree in Latin. We don't bail out people who waste all their money investing in some shitty startup, why should we bail out people who waste on their money on a useless degree?
Getting a job in engineering would make many, many people incredibly miserable. It's a pretty dreadful 9 to 5 job, really.
And because having a dreadful 9 to 5 job is well.... dreadful, you would choose a useless degree over it and waste a shit ton of money and probably end up unemployed?
God yes, I'd probably be happier with 30k from a social sciences degree with a decent job than 50-60k from an engineering degree designing stuff according to sometimes ridiculous and unnecessary standards and codes.
For some people it's awesome, for others it isn't. I'm getting my masters in political sciences and I'll end up with the same salary as someone with an engineering bachelor (which takes 2 years less to get). Worth it. Would've been worth it even if I made less.
Engineering -_- ugh
On April 18 2012 10:26 Xanbatou wrote:
On April 18 2012 10:21 Djzapz wrote:
On April 18 2012 10:19 Xanbatou wrote: There is a student debt problem? I wasn't aware of it. I have a student loan for about 25k and I'm almost finished with my bachelor's in CS. I already have a couple jobs lined up for after I graduate that will pay quite well. I expect to be able to pay off all my loans within the first couple years.
IMO, the problem is people spending exorbitant sums of money on degrees in areas that are relatively worthless to society. There is a huge demand for engineers, so go get an engineering degree. You have no right to complain about student loans when you paid 30k a year at a private school getting a degree in Latin. We don't bail out people who waste all their money investing in some shitty startup, why should we bail out people who waste on their money on a useless degree?
Getting a job in engineering would make many, many people incredibly miserable. It's a pretty dreadful 9 to 5 job, really.
I think a 9 to 5 job in engineering is better than being a barista at starbucks (or something equivalent), which is what happens to many people with useless degrees. I know a girl who got a degree in international relations at a private school. She spent a huge amount of money there and is now in a lot of debt, and she can't find a job anywhere that actually uses the degree she earned.
Well if she looked harder for a semi-decent job, she could get something in her field. It may not lead to a lot of money, but it wouldn't be Starbucks. Her fault.
You are right, though. Some people just are not cut out for or are not interested in STEM majors. However, it's a bit silly to pay the same for your degree as someone in a STEM field since they will usually make so much more. Since education is basically teaching you how to contribute to society, I think the degrees should be valued accordingly. People that receive degrees that have lower associated salary should pay less for their education, IMO. I don't think that's feasible though =/.
I really don't think this is the purpose of education at all, but we've somehow transformed education into this contest of how to better benefit the state.
Pretty much. The fact that education is all about getting a job is one of our great failures.
Again, education is not about getting a job. You don't have to pay for education. Like I said, you can just walk into any university and sit in on the classes and nobody will bat an eye. You are paying for the degree. You are paying for formal recognition that you completed a certain set of classes. There's no need for formal recognition for anything, except to prove to other people (employers) that you are at least semi-capable of learning things in a particular subject area.
the bold part is just completely incorrect. You definitely cannot just show up to any respectable university/college and sit in a class. You'll get your ass booted out so fast your head would spin.
Education:
Originally $17,500 USD of school debt. Would of cost me another $5,000 to finish degree. Don't ask me how or why, because I don't know either.
Four years of college. Two community (paid cash). Two University (loans). No degree. Three to four classes away from BA in Biological Sciences. Soft science, but better than liberal arts degree. HA!
Current debt: $10,000. One year after decision to quit school. By this time next year I should have no debt what so ever. Will be 100% debt free. How? Work. Any job you can find. There are jobs out there shut the fuck up. There are jobs out there shut the fuck up. Not jobs you will like. Not jobs that are easy. Not desk jobs. But there are jobs out there. You'll get dirty, you'll get sweaty, you'll hate life, but there's a job out there. Plenty of them. Take what you can get. Beggars can't be choosers.
My parents repeatedly told me hundreds of times that the interest would eat me. It has. And that they are willing to pay my entire debt. I said no. To this day they tell me that they are willing to pay it off. I say, no. My debt, my decision, my problem. They are not wealthy, but have savings. The debt, like this forgiveness law as many have stated before me will not magically make the debt disappear. Someone will pay it for you in one way or another.
Yes it sucks. And people basically pray on students and make them feel entrapped to go to college and get a degree. Ultimately it was your decision and your decision alone. I'm against the law. And not just because I'm almost out of debt and for me it would seem "unfair" that people will get off for free while I paid my way out. It's not that; it's because the amount of people that would take advantage of this would be massive. If they won't be held responsible for their actions now. What's to stop them from doing this again with a car or a house?
Your decisions. Just like it is the decision of a girl I know to be $100,000 in student debt and buy a brand new $26,000 car. While I've been riding a bicycle for almost a year now.
You'll find a way to make it work. In one way or another. In one shitty job or another. Those who are in debt. You'll work your way up and get out eventually little by little. Not from one day to the next like this law offers, but little by little. If you don't you'll learn nothing and just have another piece of paper - this one having fancy wording saying loan forgiveness.
It's an incredibly simple concept that there are NOT jobs out there for everyone. It's not like every unemployed person is sitting on his ass not looking for a job. Just because you were able to find one doesn't mean everyone can.
There are jobs out there for everyone. I've have always been able to find a job. Open any newspaper, you'll find companies looking for people to hire. Be it factory, warehouse, field work, pizza delivery anything there are jobs.
If you would say there are no jobs that I like or that I can use my degree in than I would agree with you. But menial, meaningless jobs that give you no self worth and you hate. There everywhere.
We should all strive to work at meaningless jobs that give you no self worth and engender only bitterness and anger.
Can't pay off $150k in loans that you spent to get a law degree delivering pizzas, no matter how much you save and scrimp.
It's an incredibly simple concept that there are NOT jobs out there for everyone. It's not like every unemployed person is sitting on his ass not looking for a job. Just because you were able to find one doesn't mean everyone can.
There are many many many jobs available right now. Just not the jobs they want in the place they want or in the field they want. There are a lot of jobs out there.
Eh, I spent about 6 months applying to every company in the surrounding area and only one company replied (walmart). I did get the job but when they hired me they turned down 3 other people. Depends on where you live, and I just don't buy the idea that everyone who is unemployed is simply lazy or unwilling to work a bad job.
EPT
