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On April 25 2012 05:33 Kaitlin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 05:10 Voltaire wrote:On April 25 2012 05:05 0mar wrote:On April 25 2012 04:44 Voltaire wrote:On April 24 2012 20:44 0mar wrote:On April 24 2012 01:43 phar wrote:On April 24 2012 00:06 Stratos_speAr wrote:On April 23 2012 09:37 FabledIntegral wrote:On April 23 2012 09:22 Lightwip wrote:On April 23 2012 07:25 phar wrote:
I do not understand why people pay $30~$40k a year for Uni and major in fields where there are no jobs. Because no one has perfect foresight. While there are plenty of people who indeed can't predict the market, etc. Its hard to feel bad for the jobless history major that took out loans. That segment at least. I mean its true that it used to just be that a degree qualified you for things, but at the same time you're building a near zero safety net with it. You're at the bottom of the food chain of bachelors degree holders. The whole thing about your staple liberal arts degree being the majority of the unemployed is a myth. Read earlier in the thread. By the way, history majors have some very high employment rates coming out of college. Are we reading the same statistics? >50% of liberal arts degree holders (undergrad) < age 25 have no jobs. It's not just liberal arts, it's the sciences as well. It's a widely known fact that degrees in Biology/Chemistry/Psychology/Physics (if you want to do physics and not quantitative finance) are essentially useless unless you want to be stuck in dead-end, $18/hour jobs with no benefits. A quick google search will show thousands of students with these degrees being stuck in dead end jobs because the companies that used to hire these graduates no longer exist or have severely curtailed their R&D departments. Basically, the only degrees worth anything are professional degrees (almost always >100k in debt though) and business degrees. That's it. Literally every single other degree is worthless and setting you up for failure. This is totally, totally wrong. The fields you mentioned, like biology and psychology, often require graduate degrees to land the good jobs. But that doesn't mean that majoring in one of those subjects will cause you to be stuck in a "$18/hour job." You can do a lot with a bachelors in biology, but if you're planning on doing like, pharmaceutical research or something most bio majors seem to want to go into, you're probably going to need a Masters or even PhD. In some fields, though, going to graduate school is virtually useless, unless you're just trying to rebrand yourself with a much better school. If you need graduate training for jobs, then your BS is useless because without graduate training, you are stuck in a dead-end job or no job at all. You don't need graduate training for "jobs" though, just CERTAIN jobs. For instance, the FBI hires people of all majors, with a starting salary of something like $60k not counting full health benefits, etc. These jobs aren't that hard to get, either (unless you have a criminal record of course), because the FBI has a bit of a social stigma. That's just one example of a job opportunity you could easily get with a bio, crim, or psych major. First, you are completely wrong in thinking that a job at the FBI is not hard to get. Second, the fact that they are less strict in their requirement for a particular degree type has more to do with the fact that they hire "people", then train them to do the job. This is also the situation with certain large investment banks mentioned earlier in the thread. They have their own extended training program which teaches what is necessary for the job, These employers are a very small minority. Most jobs are with small business, or even larger business, but without a training program of several months in place, they expect you to know how to do the job coming in. Therefore, non-job related degrees are basically next to worthless. Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 01:51 Pillage wrote:On April 25 2012 01:46 0mar wrote:On April 25 2012 01:37 phar wrote:On April 24 2012 20:44 0mar wrote:Basically, the only degrees worth anything are professional degrees (almost always >100k in debt though) and business degrees. That's it. Literally every single other degree is worthless and setting you up for failure. An engineering degree from any big public state school gets you like a 98% chance of getting a job, and costs like <$40k. I do not understand the perception that you have to pay >$25k/year for Uni, it makes no sense. Engineering degrees are professional degrees. Honestly though, what constitutes a professional degree? I've never heard that term used. One might think of 'professional degrees' as one that leads to a career where some certification is required. Medicine, law, accounting, actuarial, engineering, nursing, etc. I'm not of the opinion that 'business' is a professional degree, only certain business degrees would be, IMO. When I was in college, there was a 'general business' major, which was a little bit of everything, but prepared you for nothing type of business degree. Business degrees in marketing and management, imo, fall short of 'professional degrees' in my eyes.
What I said about the FBI was just based off what I heard from a family friend who has worked there ~15 years. He told me the hardest part about getting hired was passing the background check, but he might have been exaggerating.
Anyways, I don't think your major is as important as you make it out to be. Hardly anyone uses anything they learned in college in their day-to-day work, honestly. I think landing a good job upon graduation is a lot more dependent on having relevant internships and your ability to prove that you are a capable worker than anything else. The thing is, most college students have no idea what employers are actually looking for.
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On April 25 2012 07:24 Voltaire wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 05:33 Kaitlin wrote:On April 25 2012 05:10 Voltaire wrote:On April 25 2012 05:05 0mar wrote:On April 25 2012 04:44 Voltaire wrote:On April 24 2012 20:44 0mar wrote:On April 24 2012 01:43 phar wrote:On April 24 2012 00:06 Stratos_speAr wrote:On April 23 2012 09:37 FabledIntegral wrote:On April 23 2012 09:22 Lightwip wrote:
[quote]
Because no one has perfect foresight. While there are plenty of people who indeed can't predict the market, etc. Its hard to feel bad for the jobless history major that took out loans. That segment at least. I mean its true that it used to just be that a degree qualified you for things, but at the same time you're building a near zero safety net with it. You're at the bottom of the food chain of bachelors degree holders. The whole thing about your staple liberal arts degree being the majority of the unemployed is a myth. Read earlier in the thread. By the way, history majors have some very high employment rates coming out of college. Are we reading the same statistics? >50% of liberal arts degree holders (undergrad) < age 25 have no jobs. It's not just liberal arts, it's the sciences as well. It's a widely known fact that degrees in Biology/Chemistry/Psychology/Physics (if you want to do physics and not quantitative finance) are essentially useless unless you want to be stuck in dead-end, $18/hour jobs with no benefits. A quick google search will show thousands of students with these degrees being stuck in dead end jobs because the companies that used to hire these graduates no longer exist or have severely curtailed their R&D departments. Basically, the only degrees worth anything are professional degrees (almost always >100k in debt though) and business degrees. That's it. Literally every single other degree is worthless and setting you up for failure. This is totally, totally wrong. The fields you mentioned, like biology and psychology, often require graduate degrees to land the good jobs. But that doesn't mean that majoring in one of those subjects will cause you to be stuck in a "$18/hour job." You can do a lot with a bachelors in biology, but if you're planning on doing like, pharmaceutical research or something most bio majors seem to want to go into, you're probably going to need a Masters or even PhD. In some fields, though, going to graduate school is virtually useless, unless you're just trying to rebrand yourself with a much better school. If you need graduate training for jobs, then your BS is useless because without graduate training, you are stuck in a dead-end job or no job at all. You don't need graduate training for "jobs" though, just CERTAIN jobs. For instance, the FBI hires people of all majors, with a starting salary of something like $60k not counting full health benefits, etc. These jobs aren't that hard to get, either (unless you have a criminal record of course), because the FBI has a bit of a social stigma. That's just one example of a job opportunity you could easily get with a bio, crim, or psych major. First, you are completely wrong in thinking that a job at the FBI is not hard to get. Second, the fact that they are less strict in their requirement for a particular degree type has more to do with the fact that they hire "people", then train them to do the job. This is also the situation with certain large investment banks mentioned earlier in the thread. They have their own extended training program which teaches what is necessary for the job, These employers are a very small minority. Most jobs are with small business, or even larger business, but without a training program of several months in place, they expect you to know how to do the job coming in. Therefore, non-job related degrees are basically next to worthless. On April 25 2012 01:51 Pillage wrote:On April 25 2012 01:46 0mar wrote:On April 25 2012 01:37 phar wrote:On April 24 2012 20:44 0mar wrote:Basically, the only degrees worth anything are professional degrees (almost always >100k in debt though) and business degrees. That's it. Literally every single other degree is worthless and setting you up for failure. An engineering degree from any big public state school gets you like a 98% chance of getting a job, and costs like <$40k. I do not understand the perception that you have to pay >$25k/year for Uni, it makes no sense. Engineering degrees are professional degrees. Honestly though, what constitutes a professional degree? I've never heard that term used. One might think of 'professional degrees' as one that leads to a career where some certification is required. Medicine, law, accounting, actuarial, engineering, nursing, etc. I'm not of the opinion that 'business' is a professional degree, only certain business degrees would be, IMO. When I was in college, there was a 'general business' major, which was a little bit of everything, but prepared you for nothing type of business degree. Business degrees in marketing and management, imo, fall short of 'professional degrees' in my eyes. What I said about the FBI was just based off what I heard from a family friend who has worked there ~15 years. He told me the hardest part about getting hired was passing the background check, but he might have been exaggerating. Anyways, I don't think your major is as important as you make it out to be. Hardly anyone uses anything they learned in college in their day-to-day work, honestly. I think landing a good job upon graduation is a lot more dependent on having relevant internships and your ability to prove that you are a capable worker than anything else. The thing is, most college students have no idea what employers are actually looking for.
I'm assuming you have not yet graduated college. I bolded the part where you are just flat out wrong. The problem now is that people are figuring out the true value of their degrees and those degrees which provide general "critical thinking skills" in analyzing English prose are worth far less than degrees that provide "critical thinking skills" while applying technical knowledge. That's why the general consensus is that jobs with technical applicability fare better in the job market e.g. engineering, math, statistics, some business degrees (not marketing or management) etc...
For example, I'm an accounting major and I've needed to know the basics of ACCT 101 debits and credits and the accounting cycle before I can even begin to function in the accounting world. If you can't do debits and credits for double journal entry book keeping, there is nowhere for you to go because you can't get to the critical thinking aspect and application of your analysis if you don't understand the problem.
Also, you said
The thing is, most college students have no idea what employers are actually looking for.
Quite frankly I think college students know what employers are looking for: experience. We just can't get the needed experience without relevant jobs and the relevant jobs we apply to require experience that you would get by doing the job. It's a vicious catch 22 due to the fact that overqualified employees who have been downsized are desperately competing for the entry level jobs that used to go to college grads. In turn, college grads are taking the non-skill jobs that are left and not getting any pertinent work experience upon graduation.
Also, fun fact: Internships did not used to be a necessity for a job, but now they are and employers are taking advantage of the free labor we can provide for "school credit". I'm not blasting all internships, only unpaid internships. It's getting to the point where college students are expected to work for free to get "experience" that we so direly need to put on our resume. How is set-up any different than exploitation? More and more grads are getting locked into a permanent subservient working position because of these increased and often unattainable expectations for "entry level" career jobs. I say unattainable because most college kids cannot get 2-3 years of relevant working experience while in college. Some do, most can't because of the catch 22.
Edit: here's an interesting read: http://www.youthandwork.ca/2011/09/generation-free-are-universities.html
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This bill won't pass lol.
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On April 25 2012 09:30 Sox wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 07:24 Voltaire wrote:On April 25 2012 05:33 Kaitlin wrote:On April 25 2012 05:10 Voltaire wrote:On April 25 2012 05:05 0mar wrote:On April 25 2012 04:44 Voltaire wrote:On April 24 2012 20:44 0mar wrote:On April 24 2012 01:43 phar wrote:On April 24 2012 00:06 Stratos_speAr wrote:On April 23 2012 09:37 FabledIntegral wrote:
[quote]
While there are plenty of people who indeed can't predict the market, etc. Its hard to feel bad for the jobless history major that took out loans. That segment at least. I mean its true that it used to just be that a degree qualified you for things, but at the same time you're building a near zero safety net with it. You're at the bottom of the food chain of bachelors degree holders. The whole thing about your staple liberal arts degree being the majority of the unemployed is a myth. Read earlier in the thread. By the way, history majors have some very high employment rates coming out of college. Are we reading the same statistics? >50% of liberal arts degree holders (undergrad) < age 25 have no jobs. It's not just liberal arts, it's the sciences as well. It's a widely known fact that degrees in Biology/Chemistry/Psychology/Physics (if you want to do physics and not quantitative finance) are essentially useless unless you want to be stuck in dead-end, $18/hour jobs with no benefits. A quick google search will show thousands of students with these degrees being stuck in dead end jobs because the companies that used to hire these graduates no longer exist or have severely curtailed their R&D departments. Basically, the only degrees worth anything are professional degrees (almost always >100k in debt though) and business degrees. That's it. Literally every single other degree is worthless and setting you up for failure. This is totally, totally wrong. The fields you mentioned, like biology and psychology, often require graduate degrees to land the good jobs. But that doesn't mean that majoring in one of those subjects will cause you to be stuck in a "$18/hour job." You can do a lot with a bachelors in biology, but if you're planning on doing like, pharmaceutical research or something most bio majors seem to want to go into, you're probably going to need a Masters or even PhD. In some fields, though, going to graduate school is virtually useless, unless you're just trying to rebrand yourself with a much better school. If you need graduate training for jobs, then your BS is useless because without graduate training, you are stuck in a dead-end job or no job at all. You don't need graduate training for "jobs" though, just CERTAIN jobs. For instance, the FBI hires people of all majors, with a starting salary of something like $60k not counting full health benefits, etc. These jobs aren't that hard to get, either (unless you have a criminal record of course), because the FBI has a bit of a social stigma. That's just one example of a job opportunity you could easily get with a bio, crim, or psych major. First, you are completely wrong in thinking that a job at the FBI is not hard to get. Second, the fact that they are less strict in their requirement for a particular degree type has more to do with the fact that they hire "people", then train them to do the job. This is also the situation with certain large investment banks mentioned earlier in the thread. They have their own extended training program which teaches what is necessary for the job, These employers are a very small minority. Most jobs are with small business, or even larger business, but without a training program of several months in place, they expect you to know how to do the job coming in. Therefore, non-job related degrees are basically next to worthless. On April 25 2012 01:51 Pillage wrote:On April 25 2012 01:46 0mar wrote:On April 25 2012 01:37 phar wrote:On April 24 2012 20:44 0mar wrote:Basically, the only degrees worth anything are professional degrees (almost always >100k in debt though) and business degrees. That's it. Literally every single other degree is worthless and setting you up for failure. An engineering degree from any big public state school gets you like a 98% chance of getting a job, and costs like <$40k. I do not understand the perception that you have to pay >$25k/year for Uni, it makes no sense. Engineering degrees are professional degrees. Honestly though, what constitutes a professional degree? I've never heard that term used. One might think of 'professional degrees' as one that leads to a career where some certification is required. Medicine, law, accounting, actuarial, engineering, nursing, etc. I'm not of the opinion that 'business' is a professional degree, only certain business degrees would be, IMO. When I was in college, there was a 'general business' major, which was a little bit of everything, but prepared you for nothing type of business degree. Business degrees in marketing and management, imo, fall short of 'professional degrees' in my eyes. What I said about the FBI was just based off what I heard from a family friend who has worked there ~15 years. He told me the hardest part about getting hired was passing the background check, but he might have been exaggerating. Anyways, I don't think your major is as important as you make it out to be. Hardly anyone uses anything they learned in college in their day-to-day work, honestly. I think landing a good job upon graduation is a lot more dependent on having relevant internships and your ability to prove that you are a capable worker than anything else. The thing is, most college students have no idea what employers are actually looking for. I'm assuming you have not yet graduated college. I bolded the part where you are just flat out wrong. The problem now is that people are figuring out the true value of their degrees and those degrees which provide general "critical thinking skills" in analyzing English prose are worth far less than degrees that provide "critical thinking skills" while applying technical knowledge. That's why the general consensus is that jobs with technical applicability fare better in the job market e.g. engineering, math, statistics, some business degrees (not marketing or management) etc... For example, I'm an accounting major and I've needed to know the basics of ACCT 101 debits and credits and the accounting cycle before I can even begin to function in the accounting world. If you can't do debits and credits for double journal entry book keeping, there is nowhere for you to go because you can't get to the critical thinking aspect and application of your analysis if you don't understand the problem. Also, you said Show nested quote + The thing is, most college students have no idea what employers are actually looking for. Quite frankly I think college students know what employers are looking for: experience. We just can't get the needed experience without relevant jobs and the relevant jobs we apply to require experience that you would get by doing the job. It's a vicious catch 22 due to the fact that overqualified employees who have been downsized are desperately competing for the entry level jobs that used to go to college grads. In turn, college grads are taking the non-skill jobs that are left and not getting any pertinent work experience upon graduation. Also, fun fact: Internships did not used to be a necessity for a job, but now they are and employers are taking advantage of the free labor we can provide for "school credit". I'm not blasting all internships, only unpaid internships. It's getting to the point where college students are expected to work for free to get "experience" that we so direly need to put on our resume. How is set-up any different than exploitation? More and more grads are getting locked into a permanent subservient working position because of these increased and often unattainable expectations for "entry level" career jobs. I say unattainable because most college kids cannot get 2-3 years of relevant working experience while in college. Some do, most can't because of the catch 22. Edit: here's an interesting read: http://www.youthandwork.ca/2011/09/generation-free-are-universities.html
Most unpaid internships are only like 2-3 months and aren't full time though, so it's not that bad. It's not unreasonable at all to have an internship and part time job at the same time ... there are also plenty of paid internships out there.
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Why do people say that going to college lowers the value of a college degree? I get the idea behind it, but most people from college do not even graduate. This means that it really does not lower the value of a college degree. Sure, going to college counts, but staying in college is what makes you earn a degree.
I just don't understand. Someone like to clarify?
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On April 25 2012 11:17 Housemd wrote:
Why do people say that going to college lowers the value of a college degree? I get the idea behind it, but most people from college do not even graduate. This means that it really does not lower the value of a college degree. Sure, going to college counts, but staying in college is what makes you earn a degree.
I just don't understand. Someone like to clarify?
Apparently you don't, because this is blatantly false. The graduation rate for college students is very high.
Edit: To enlighten, it lowers the value of a college degree because the supply of college graduates increases while the demand stays the same or even decreases. Meanwhile, the supply of non-graduates or technical/vocational graduates becomes lower, so these are more highly desired. Source: common fucking sense.
At least now your belief that it is hard to graduate from college now makes sense in light of your lack of knowledge of, like, middle-school level economics.
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On April 25 2012 11:22 politik wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 11:17 Housemd wrote:
Why do people say that going to college lowers the value of a college degree? I get the idea behind it, but most people from college do not even graduate. This means that it really does not lower the value of a college degree. Sure, going to college counts, but staying in college is what makes you earn a degree.
I just don't understand. Someone like to clarify? Apparently you don't, because this is blatantly false. The graduation rate for college students is very high. Edit: To enlighten, it lowers the value of a college degree because the supply of college graduates increases while the demand stays the same or even decreases. Meanwhile, the supply of non-graduates or technical/vocational graduates becomes lower, so these are more highly desired. Source: common fucking sense. At least now your belief that it is hard to graduate from college now makes sense in light of your lack of knowledge of, like, middle-school level economics.
Oops. I made a wrong turn in assuming that the graduation rates from colleges is very low. If I had known better by getting more facts (which I now have because of you), I would of been able to apply my "middle-school level economics".
Thanks for the answer.
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On April 25 2012 09:30 Sox wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 07:24 Voltaire wrote:On April 25 2012 05:33 Kaitlin wrote:On April 25 2012 05:10 Voltaire wrote:On April 25 2012 05:05 0mar wrote:On April 25 2012 04:44 Voltaire wrote:On April 24 2012 20:44 0mar wrote:On April 24 2012 01:43 phar wrote:On April 24 2012 00:06 Stratos_speAr wrote:On April 23 2012 09:37 FabledIntegral wrote:
[quote]
While there are plenty of people who indeed can't predict the market, etc. Its hard to feel bad for the jobless history major that took out loans. That segment at least. I mean its true that it used to just be that a degree qualified you for things, but at the same time you're building a near zero safety net with it. You're at the bottom of the food chain of bachelors degree holders. The whole thing about your staple liberal arts degree being the majority of the unemployed is a myth. Read earlier in the thread. By the way, history majors have some very high employment rates coming out of college. Are we reading the same statistics? >50% of liberal arts degree holders (undergrad) < age 25 have no jobs. It's not just liberal arts, it's the sciences as well. It's a widely known fact that degrees in Biology/Chemistry/Psychology/Physics (if you want to do physics and not quantitative finance) are essentially useless unless you want to be stuck in dead-end, $18/hour jobs with no benefits. A quick google search will show thousands of students with these degrees being stuck in dead end jobs because the companies that used to hire these graduates no longer exist or have severely curtailed their R&D departments. Basically, the only degrees worth anything are professional degrees (almost always >100k in debt though) and business degrees. That's it. Literally every single other degree is worthless and setting you up for failure. This is totally, totally wrong. The fields you mentioned, like biology and psychology, often require graduate degrees to land the good jobs. But that doesn't mean that majoring in one of those subjects will cause you to be stuck in a "$18/hour job." You can do a lot with a bachelors in biology, but if you're planning on doing like, pharmaceutical research or something most bio majors seem to want to go into, you're probably going to need a Masters or even PhD. In some fields, though, going to graduate school is virtually useless, unless you're just trying to rebrand yourself with a much better school. If you need graduate training for jobs, then your BS is useless because without graduate training, you are stuck in a dead-end job or no job at all. You don't need graduate training for "jobs" though, just CERTAIN jobs. For instance, the FBI hires people of all majors, with a starting salary of something like $60k not counting full health benefits, etc. These jobs aren't that hard to get, either (unless you have a criminal record of course), because the FBI has a bit of a social stigma. That's just one example of a job opportunity you could easily get with a bio, crim, or psych major. First, you are completely wrong in thinking that a job at the FBI is not hard to get. Second, the fact that they are less strict in their requirement for a particular degree type has more to do with the fact that they hire "people", then train them to do the job. This is also the situation with certain large investment banks mentioned earlier in the thread. They have their own extended training program which teaches what is necessary for the job, These employers are a very small minority. Most jobs are with small business, or even larger business, but without a training program of several months in place, they expect you to know how to do the job coming in. Therefore, non-job related degrees are basically next to worthless. On April 25 2012 01:51 Pillage wrote:On April 25 2012 01:46 0mar wrote:On April 25 2012 01:37 phar wrote:On April 24 2012 20:44 0mar wrote:Basically, the only degrees worth anything are professional degrees (almost always >100k in debt though) and business degrees. That's it. Literally every single other degree is worthless and setting you up for failure. An engineering degree from any big public state school gets you like a 98% chance of getting a job, and costs like <$40k. I do not understand the perception that you have to pay >$25k/year for Uni, it makes no sense. Engineering degrees are professional degrees. Honestly though, what constitutes a professional degree? I've never heard that term used. One might think of 'professional degrees' as one that leads to a career where some certification is required. Medicine, law, accounting, actuarial, engineering, nursing, etc. I'm not of the opinion that 'business' is a professional degree, only certain business degrees would be, IMO. When I was in college, there was a 'general business' major, which was a little bit of everything, but prepared you for nothing type of business degree. Business degrees in marketing and management, imo, fall short of 'professional degrees' in my eyes. What I said about the FBI was just based off what I heard from a family friend who has worked there ~15 years. He told me the hardest part about getting hired was passing the background check, but he might have been exaggerating. Anyways, I don't think your major is as important as you make it out to be. Hardly anyone uses anything they learned in college in their day-to-day work, honestly. I think landing a good job upon graduation is a lot more dependent on having relevant internships and your ability to prove that you are a capable worker than anything else. The thing is, most college students have no idea what employers are actually looking for. I'm assuming you have not yet graduated college. I bolded the part where you are just flat out wrong. The problem now is that people are figuring out the true value of their degrees and those degrees which provide general "critical thinking skills" in analyzing English prose are worth far less than degrees that provide "critical thinking skills" while applying technical knowledge. That's why the general consensus is that jobs with technical applicability fare better in the job market e.g. engineering, math, statistics, some business degrees (not marketing or management) etc... For example, I'm an accounting major and I've needed to know the basics of ACCT 101 debits and credits and the accounting cycle before I can even begin to function in the accounting world. If you can't do debits and credits for double journal entry book keeping, there is nowhere for you to go because you can't get to the critical thinking aspect and application of your analysis if you don't understand the problem. Also, you said Show nested quote + The thing is, most college students have no idea what employers are actually looking for. Quite frankly I think college students know what employers are looking for: experience. We just can't get the needed experience without relevant jobs and the relevant jobs we apply to require experience that you would get by doing the job. It's a vicious catch 22 due to the fact that overqualified employees who have been downsized are desperately competing for the entry level jobs that used to go to college grads. In turn, college grads are taking the non-skill jobs that are left and not getting any pertinent work experience upon graduation. Also, fun fact: Internships did not used to be a necessity for a job, but now they are and employers are taking advantage of the free labor we can provide for "school credit". I'm not blasting all internships, only unpaid internships. It's getting to the point where college students are expected to work for free to get "experience" that we so direly need to put on our resume. How is set-up any different than exploitation? More and more grads are getting locked into a permanent subservient working position because of these increased and often unattainable expectations for "entry level" career jobs. I say unattainable because most college kids cannot get 2-3 years of relevant working experience while in college. Some do, most can't because of the catch 22. Edit: here's an interesting read: http://www.youthandwork.ca/2011/09/generation-free-are-universities.html
There are some majors that are basically "professional" majors. Someone was just talking about this on the other page. These majors provide a skill set for a very particular job, which is usually only filled by people who took that major. Accounting, architecture, and engineering are all examples of these. Most people who major in mechanical engineering become mechanical engineers, most people who major in architecture become architects, etc. These majors are not all that popular, though. Most people end up in a field not related to their major. There is statistical data to back this up. Not everyone, but most.
I'm not here to say getting a job is easy. I'm just defending majors that are too often thrown under the bus, like English and Biology. These majors can open up all sorts of opportunities if you let them.
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Sorry, I don't know why I decided to be such a dick. Just try not to say things after only thinking them through half-assedly. This is a lesson I need to remember more often too.
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On April 25 2012 11:36 Voltaire wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 09:30 Sox wrote:On April 25 2012 07:24 Voltaire wrote:On April 25 2012 05:33 Kaitlin wrote:On April 25 2012 05:10 Voltaire wrote:On April 25 2012 05:05 0mar wrote:On April 25 2012 04:44 Voltaire wrote:On April 24 2012 20:44 0mar wrote:On April 24 2012 01:43 phar wrote:On April 24 2012 00:06 Stratos_speAr wrote:
[quote]
The whole thing about your staple liberal arts degree being the majority of the unemployed is a myth. Read earlier in the thread.
By the way, history majors have some very high employment rates coming out of college. Are we reading the same statistics? >50% of liberal arts degree holders (undergrad) < age 25 have no jobs. It's not just liberal arts, it's the sciences as well. It's a widely known fact that degrees in Biology/Chemistry/Psychology/Physics (if you want to do physics and not quantitative finance) are essentially useless unless you want to be stuck in dead-end, $18/hour jobs with no benefits. A quick google search will show thousands of students with these degrees being stuck in dead end jobs because the companies that used to hire these graduates no longer exist or have severely curtailed their R&D departments. Basically, the only degrees worth anything are professional degrees (almost always >100k in debt though) and business degrees. That's it. Literally every single other degree is worthless and setting you up for failure. This is totally, totally wrong. The fields you mentioned, like biology and psychology, often require graduate degrees to land the good jobs. But that doesn't mean that majoring in one of those subjects will cause you to be stuck in a "$18/hour job." You can do a lot with a bachelors in biology, but if you're planning on doing like, pharmaceutical research or something most bio majors seem to want to go into, you're probably going to need a Masters or even PhD. In some fields, though, going to graduate school is virtually useless, unless you're just trying to rebrand yourself with a much better school. If you need graduate training for jobs, then your BS is useless because without graduate training, you are stuck in a dead-end job or no job at all. You don't need graduate training for "jobs" though, just CERTAIN jobs. For instance, the FBI hires people of all majors, with a starting salary of something like $60k not counting full health benefits, etc. These jobs aren't that hard to get, either (unless you have a criminal record of course), because the FBI has a bit of a social stigma. That's just one example of a job opportunity you could easily get with a bio, crim, or psych major. First, you are completely wrong in thinking that a job at the FBI is not hard to get. Second, the fact that they are less strict in their requirement for a particular degree type has more to do with the fact that they hire "people", then train them to do the job. This is also the situation with certain large investment banks mentioned earlier in the thread. They have their own extended training program which teaches what is necessary for the job, These employers are a very small minority. Most jobs are with small business, or even larger business, but without a training program of several months in place, they expect you to know how to do the job coming in. Therefore, non-job related degrees are basically next to worthless. On April 25 2012 01:51 Pillage wrote:On April 25 2012 01:46 0mar wrote:On April 25 2012 01:37 phar wrote:On April 24 2012 20:44 0mar wrote:Basically, the only degrees worth anything are professional degrees (almost always >100k in debt though) and business degrees. That's it. Literally every single other degree is worthless and setting you up for failure. An engineering degree from any big public state school gets you like a 98% chance of getting a job, and costs like <$40k. I do not understand the perception that you have to pay >$25k/year for Uni, it makes no sense. Engineering degrees are professional degrees. Honestly though, what constitutes a professional degree? I've never heard that term used. One might think of 'professional degrees' as one that leads to a career where some certification is required. Medicine, law, accounting, actuarial, engineering, nursing, etc. I'm not of the opinion that 'business' is a professional degree, only certain business degrees would be, IMO. When I was in college, there was a 'general business' major, which was a little bit of everything, but prepared you for nothing type of business degree. Business degrees in marketing and management, imo, fall short of 'professional degrees' in my eyes. What I said about the FBI was just based off what I heard from a family friend who has worked there ~15 years. He told me the hardest part about getting hired was passing the background check, but he might have been exaggerating. Anyways, I don't think your major is as important as you make it out to be. Hardly anyone uses anything they learned in college in their day-to-day work, honestly. I think landing a good job upon graduation is a lot more dependent on having relevant internships and your ability to prove that you are a capable worker than anything else. The thing is, most college students have no idea what employers are actually looking for. I'm assuming you have not yet graduated college. I bolded the part where you are just flat out wrong. The problem now is that people are figuring out the true value of their degrees and those degrees which provide general "critical thinking skills" in analyzing English prose are worth far less than degrees that provide "critical thinking skills" while applying technical knowledge. That's why the general consensus is that jobs with technical applicability fare better in the job market e.g. engineering, math, statistics, some business degrees (not marketing or management) etc... For example, I'm an accounting major and I've needed to know the basics of ACCT 101 debits and credits and the accounting cycle before I can even begin to function in the accounting world. If you can't do debits and credits for double journal entry book keeping, there is nowhere for you to go because you can't get to the critical thinking aspect and application of your analysis if you don't understand the problem. Also, you said The thing is, most college students have no idea what employers are actually looking for. Quite frankly I think college students know what employers are looking for: experience. We just can't get the needed experience without relevant jobs and the relevant jobs we apply to require experience that you would get by doing the job. It's a vicious catch 22 due to the fact that overqualified employees who have been downsized are desperately competing for the entry level jobs that used to go to college grads. In turn, college grads are taking the non-skill jobs that are left and not getting any pertinent work experience upon graduation. Also, fun fact: Internships did not used to be a necessity for a job, but now they are and employers are taking advantage of the free labor we can provide for "school credit". I'm not blasting all internships, only unpaid internships. It's getting to the point where college students are expected to work for free to get "experience" that we so direly need to put on our resume. How is set-up any different than exploitation? More and more grads are getting locked into a permanent subservient working position because of these increased and often unattainable expectations for "entry level" career jobs. I say unattainable because most college kids cannot get 2-3 years of relevant working experience while in college. Some do, most can't because of the catch 22. Edit: here's an interesting read: http://www.youthandwork.ca/2011/09/generation-free-are-universities.html There are some majors that are basically "professional" majors. Someone was just talking about this on the other page. These majors provide a skill set for a very particular job, which is usually only filled by people who took that major. Accounting, architecture, and engineering are all examples of these. Most people who major in mechanical engineering become mechanical engineers, most people who major in architecture become architects, etc. These majors are not all that popular, though. Most people end up in a field not related to their major. There is statistical data to back this up. Not everyone, but most. I'm not here to say getting a job is easy. I'm just defending majors that are too often thrown under the bus, like English and Biology. These majors can open up all sorts of opportunities if you let them.
My point in short is: the majors being thrown under the bus are being thrown under the bus for a reason. The opportunities that you claim open up from undergrad English or Biology is quickly evaporating in the job market as employers can be extremely picky, especially when they get 32.6 applications per job posting (http://timesfreepress.com/news/2012/apr/22/positions-wanted/). An undergraduate degree in English or Biology doesn't have much muster when there are graduate level educated candidates jockeying for the same jobs undergrads are. The only real opportunities these majors give you now is the chance to continue studying in that field aka graduate school so that you can beat out the undergrads when you apply for relevant jobs. Or ending up in a irrelevant field like retail or the service industry which is where the majority of grads are going to right now.
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On April 25 2012 04:25 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 04:13 Sox wrote:On April 25 2012 02:58 mmagic wrote:
The amount of money you have to pay for a COLLEGE is HUGE !!!
Why not learn a foreigen language and go and make the college in another country where you will pay about nothing compared to USA. There are lots of countries where the grass is greener like ROMANIA. You look for places where the diploma is recongnized and the quality of education can be better and way more cheaper. Plus you will feel like a boss with the amount of money you take with you from USA.
With 400$ a month you could eat the whole time only in restaurants or if you cook with 150$. Rent 250$ a studio. Charges 70$ a month. The payed university is about 1000$ a year. That is (150+250+70)*12 + 1000$ = 6640$ a year and for 4 years = 6640*4 = 26560$. This will be the cost if you don't work at all the whole time and you know how to cook for your self. If you also work you will get about 400$ a month so you will gain like 400*12*4 = 19200$ year and substracting from 26560$ you whole education will only cost you 7360$
I'm glad to see that you can do numerical exercises, but how about considering non-monetary costs and travel costs. Your assumptions are too thin and don't paint the real picture. You assume a U.S. student would willingly fly out to Romania, but you need to remember that the U.S. student probably has family he/she will want to visit several times a year. On top of that, I don't know how many people would value a Romania degree in relationship with its cost savings. My guess is that if it's not recognized in the local area, it's not going to carry much value. Why would an U.S. employer consider a Romania degree candidate for which he/she knows nothing about when he/she could hire a local state school candidate and know with greater certainty what kind of employee he/she is hiring. Much a degree's value comes from society's deemed value of the university itself. This societal value accumulates over time and rises and falls as its graduates succeed or fail among other things. That being said, all top colleges are either in the United States/Canada, or Western Europe and maybe China/S.Korea. Romania never comes to mind, nor does many Eastern European countries. And if you're one of the majority of students not attending a top college, you strive for the "best" you can or what you can afford (hopefully both). http://www.usnews.com/education/worlds-best-universities-rankings/top-400-universities-in-the-world As this person said, the actual quality of education isn't really as important as the name of the university and the prestige that comes along with it, not to mention unless it's a top foreign school, I'm fairly sure national schools are preferred. The quality of education is fucking terrible at many of the classes I've attended, with professors who are only there to do research and don't know how to teach themselves. But we're ranked infinitely higher than a junior college, where the quality of education is significantly better a lot of the time. Which is why I'm so incredibly glad we have the guaranteed transfer system, so students can guarantee transfer from a JC (junior college costing a few hundred per semester) to a UC (University of California) as long as they maintain a certain GPA and take certain classes. It's truly a system that works and significantly helps the financially struggling with getting an identical degree, and potentially even a better education, than someone who attends a four year from the start.
The University diploma is important only for the first job in the desired field, for the second job they will ask you what did you do at your previous job and what did you learn there and soo on for your entire career, they will always ask you of your previous jobs. So to get the starting job, you finish the university in a country where the cost of schooling and living is cheap, friendly people, beautifull women, no terrorism danger. Then you return in US because you have chitisenship and get hired in the desired field because you have the diploma, you just accept any salary they give you just to kick in you field of interest. For the future knowing a new language will help you fill positions at companies having relations with that country.
I never said that is easy to move to another country, you have to take life in your own hands and not wait for parents to help you and pay your schooling. As for what you can do with a diploma from Romania, you can work for Microsoft as developer for a wooping 10.000$ a month like a cousin of mine does. And I have many university coleagues which work in the whole word France, Germany for 4.000€ a month and they left Romania beacuse they pay in Romania is small and the grass is greener in other countries. But that cousin is very smart and also my coleagues so I thing that if you are smart and just need a diploma then that is a good alternative. Don't know about China, India, Brazil where the cost of living will also be cheap, you should check.
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Why can't they just pay back the debt like normal people? Maybe if they're struggling to pay it off, they shouldn't have gotten a crap GPA which makes them unattractive to employers!
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On April 25 2012 17:38 arbitrageur wrote:
Why can't they just pay back the debt like normal people? Maybe if they're struggling to pay it off, they shouldn't have gotten a crap GPA which makes them unattractive to employers!
Strawman, tribalism, good show!
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On April 25 2012 17:38 arbitrageur wrote:
Why can't they just pay back the debt like normal people? Maybe if they're struggling to pay it off, they shouldn't have gotten a crap GPA which makes them unattractive to employers!
Employers don't even care about GPA. I've never once been asked about my GPA nor prove that I went to college.
GPA really only matters for graduate/professional school, not employment.
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On April 25 2012 17:31 mmagic wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 04:25 FabledIntegral wrote:On April 25 2012 04:13 Sox wrote:On April 25 2012 02:58 mmagic wrote:
The amount of money you have to pay for a COLLEGE is HUGE !!!
Why not learn a foreigen language and go and make the college in another country where you will pay about nothing compared to USA. There are lots of countries where the grass is greener like ROMANIA. You look for places where the diploma is recongnized and the quality of education can be better and way more cheaper. Plus you will feel like a boss with the amount of money you take with you from USA.
With 400$ a month you could eat the whole time only in restaurants or if you cook with 150$. Rent 250$ a studio. Charges 70$ a month. The payed university is about 1000$ a year. That is (150+250+70)*12 + 1000$ = 6640$ a year and for 4 years = 6640*4 = 26560$. This will be the cost if you don't work at all the whole time and you know how to cook for your self. If you also work you will get about 400$ a month so you will gain like 400*12*4 = 19200$ year and substracting from 26560$ you whole education will only cost you 7360$
I'm glad to see that you can do numerical exercises, but how about considering non-monetary costs and travel costs. Your assumptions are too thin and don't paint the real picture. You assume a U.S. student would willingly fly out to Romania, but you need to remember that the U.S. student probably has family he/she will want to visit several times a year. On top of that, I don't know how many people would value a Romania degree in relationship with its cost savings. My guess is that if it's not recognized in the local area, it's not going to carry much value. Why would an U.S. employer consider a Romania degree candidate for which he/she knows nothing about when he/she could hire a local state school candidate and know with greater certainty what kind of employee he/she is hiring. Much a degree's value comes from society's deemed value of the university itself. This societal value accumulates over time and rises and falls as its graduates succeed or fail among other things. That being said, all top colleges are either in the United States/Canada, or Western Europe and maybe China/S.Korea. Romania never comes to mind, nor does many Eastern European countries. And if you're one of the majority of students not attending a top college, you strive for the "best" you can or what you can afford (hopefully both). http://www.usnews.com/education/worlds-best-universities-rankings/top-400-universities-in-the-world As this person said, the actual quality of education isn't really as important as the name of the university and the prestige that comes along with it, not to mention unless it's a top foreign school, I'm fairly sure national schools are preferred. The quality of education is fucking terrible at many of the classes I've attended, with professors who are only there to do research and don't know how to teach themselves. But we're ranked infinitely higher than a junior college, where the quality of education is significantly better a lot of the time. Which is why I'm so incredibly glad we have the guaranteed transfer system, so students can guarantee transfer from a JC (junior college costing a few hundred per semester) to a UC (University of California) as long as they maintain a certain GPA and take certain classes. It's truly a system that works and significantly helps the financially struggling with getting an identical degree, and potentially even a better education, than someone who attends a four year from the start. The University diploma is important only for the first job in the desired field, for the second job they will ask you what did you do at your previous job and what did you learn there and soo on for your entire career, they will always ask you of your previous jobs. So to get the starting job, you finish the university in a country where the cost of schooling and living is cheap, friendly people, beautifull women, no terrorism danger. Then you return in US because you have chitisenship and get hired in the desired field because you have the diploma, you just accept any salary they give you just to kick in you field of interest. For the future knowing a new language will help you fill positions at companies having relations with that country. I never said that is easy to move to another country, you have to take life in your own hands and not wait for parents to help you and pay your schooling. As for what you can do with a diploma from Romania, you can work for Microsoft as developer for a wooping 10.000$ a month like a cousin of mine does. And I have many university coleagues which work in the whole word France, Germany for 4.000€ a month and they left Romania beacuse they pay in Romania is small and the grass is greener in other countries. But that cousin is very smart and also my coleagues so I thing that if you are smart and just need a diploma then that is a good alternative. Don't know about China, India, Brazil where the cost of living will also be cheap, you should check.
It doesn't work like that whatsoever.
First, many employers are still asking about university beyond your first job, although first job is definitely when it counts. However, if you plan on switching anytime soon after getting it, university is still completely relevant.
Have you not read the thread itself? How in the world are you going to get that initial job, when it's already been stated people with degrees in the U.S. can't get hired in their desired field? Friendly people, beautiful women, and no terrorism danger are all borderline retarded arguments as well. Accept any salary? Wtf? Employers don't want you if you switch around between jobs. If you get hired for $25,000 per year, what makes you think you can transfer to a $50,000 salary in your next job? You can't.
So much terrible advice...
On April 25 2012 20:12 0mar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 17:38 arbitrageur wrote:
Why can't they just pay back the debt like normal people? Maybe if they're struggling to pay it off, they shouldn't have gotten a crap GPA which makes them unattractive to employers! Employers don't even care about GPA. I've never once been asked about my GPA nor prove that I went to college. GPA really only matters for graduate/professional school, not employment.
100% false. Every single interview I've attended thus far has had a minimum GPA requirement. Over 60% of the 2,500 jobs on the UCI career board have minimum GPA requirements that the system won't even LET you apply for if you don't have the GPA. If you're in a business major, GPA is EVERYTHING for almost EVERY job out there. It's cool you were able to find a job with an employer that didn't care, but name me a single major business, or in fact any business in the Fortune 500 that doesn't give a shit about GPA.
I know at my school, EMC, Google, Microsoft, Deloitte Consulting, Deloitte & Touch (accounting), KPMG, Ernst & Young, BDO, McGladdery, PwC, Experian, Liberty Mutual, Hitachi, Wells Fargo, Ford Motor Credit, all have minimum GPAs of at LEAST 3.0, many with 3.3 or 3.5.
EMC might be the only exception since it's a firm that hires almost exclusively engineers, but even then GPA is highly relevant. Give me a break, many you get hired at a super small company, or lucked out with a larger one, but that doesn't mean that's the general rule. I even only listed these companies because they were some of the bigger ones I went to the career fairs for and talked to recruiters about, except EMC/Google/Microsoft, which were 3 my roommate had interviews with.
I was explicitly told by my employer that the main reason I got the job over competition was that I had a 3.8 GPA. Also, any decent employer AFTER you get hired will perform a background check on you. Which means they'll verify you went to college... honestly...
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On April 25 2012 20:12 0mar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 17:38 arbitrageur wrote:
Why can't they just pay back the debt like normal people? Maybe if they're struggling to pay it off, they shouldn't have gotten a crap GPA which makes them unattractive to employers! Employers don't even care about GPA. I've never once been asked about my GPA nor prove that I went to college. GPA really only matters for graduate/professional school, not employment.
bullshit, this has to be a very specific example or a low demanding occupation, i've given transcripts following job interviews for positions that required a high GPA of any new grads coming in. Hell, I've been out of school for four years and the last job I applied to still had my GPA on the resume.
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On April 26 2012 01:53 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 17:31 mmagic wrote:On April 25 2012 04:25 FabledIntegral wrote:On April 25 2012 04:13 Sox wrote:On April 25 2012 02:58 mmagic wrote:
The amount of money you have to pay for a COLLEGE is HUGE !!!
Why not learn a foreigen language and go and make the college in another country where you will pay about nothing compared to USA. There are lots of countries where the grass is greener like ROMANIA. You look for places where the diploma is recongnized and the quality of education can be better and way more cheaper. Plus you will feel like a boss with the amount of money you take with you from USA.
With 400$ a month you could eat the whole time only in restaurants or if you cook with 150$. Rent 250$ a studio. Charges 70$ a month. The payed university is about 1000$ a year. That is (150+250+70)*12 + 1000$ = 6640$ a year and for 4 years = 6640*4 = 26560$. This will be the cost if you don't work at all the whole time and you know how to cook for your self. If you also work you will get about 400$ a month so you will gain like 400*12*4 = 19200$ year and substracting from 26560$ you whole education will only cost you 7360$
I'm glad to see that you can do numerical exercises, but how about considering non-monetary costs and travel costs. Your assumptions are too thin and don't paint the real picture. You assume a U.S. student would willingly fly out to Romania, but you need to remember that the U.S. student probably has family he/she will want to visit several times a year. On top of that, I don't know how many people would value a Romania degree in relationship with its cost savings. My guess is that if it's not recognized in the local area, it's not going to carry much value. Why would an U.S. employer consider a Romania degree candidate for which he/she knows nothing about when he/she could hire a local state school candidate and know with greater certainty what kind of employee he/she is hiring. Much a degree's value comes from society's deemed value of the university itself. This societal value accumulates over time and rises and falls as its graduates succeed or fail among other things. That being said, all top colleges are either in the United States/Canada, or Western Europe and maybe China/S.Korea. Romania never comes to mind, nor does many Eastern European countries. And if you're one of the majority of students not attending a top college, you strive for the "best" you can or what you can afford (hopefully both). http://www.usnews.com/education/worlds-best-universities-rankings/top-400-universities-in-the-world As this person said, the actual quality of education isn't really as important as the name of the university and the prestige that comes along with it, not to mention unless it's a top foreign school, I'm fairly sure national schools are preferred. The quality of education is fucking terrible at many of the classes I've attended, with professors who are only there to do research and don't know how to teach themselves. But we're ranked infinitely higher than a junior college, where the quality of education is significantly better a lot of the time. Which is why I'm so incredibly glad we have the guaranteed transfer system, so students can guarantee transfer from a JC (junior college costing a few hundred per semester) to a UC (University of California) as long as they maintain a certain GPA and take certain classes. It's truly a system that works and significantly helps the financially struggling with getting an identical degree, and potentially even a better education, than someone who attends a four year from the start. The University diploma is important only for the first job in the desired field, for the second job they will ask you what did you do at your previous job and what did you learn there and soo on for your entire career, they will always ask you of your previous jobs. So to get the starting job, you finish the university in a country where the cost of schooling and living is cheap, friendly people, beautifull women, no terrorism danger. Then you return in US because you have chitisenship and get hired in the desired field because you have the diploma, you just accept any salary they give you just to kick in you field of interest. For the future knowing a new language will help you fill positions at companies having relations with that country. I never said that is easy to move to another country, you have to take life in your own hands and not wait for parents to help you and pay your schooling. As for what you can do with a diploma from Romania, you can work for Microsoft as developer for a wooping 10.000$ a month like a cousin of mine does. And I have many university coleagues which work in the whole word France, Germany for 4.000€ a month and they left Romania beacuse they pay in Romania is small and the grass is greener in other countries. But that cousin is very smart and also my coleagues so I thing that if you are smart and just need a diploma then that is a good alternative. Don't know about China, India, Brazil where the cost of living will also be cheap, you should check. It doesn't work like that whatsoever. First, many employers are still asking about university beyond your first job, although first job is definitely when it counts. However, if you plan on switching anytime soon after getting it, university is still completely relevant. Have you not read the thread itself? How in the world are you going to get that initial job, when it's already been stated people with degrees in the U.S. can't get hired in their desired field? Friendly people, beautiful women, and no terrorism danger are all borderline retarded arguments as well. Accept any salary? Wtf? Employers don't want you if you switch around between jobs. If you get hired for $25,000 per year, what makes you think you can transfer to a $50,000 salary in your next job? You can't. So much terrible advice... Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 20:12 0mar wrote:On April 25 2012 17:38 arbitrageur wrote:
Why can't they just pay back the debt like normal people? Maybe if they're struggling to pay it off, they shouldn't have gotten a crap GPA which makes them unattractive to employers! Employers don't even care about GPA. I've never once been asked about my GPA nor prove that I went to college. GPA really only matters for graduate/professional school, not employment. 100% false. Every single interview I've attended thus far has had a minimum GPA requirement. Over 60% of the 2,500 jobs on the UCI career board have minimum GPA requirements that the system won't even LET you apply for if you don't have the GPA. If you're in a business major, GPA is EVERYTHING for almost EVERY job out there. It's cool you were able to find a job with an employer that didn't care, but name me a single major business, or in fact any business in the Fortune 500 that doesn't give a shit about GPA. I know at my school, EMC, Google, Microsoft, Deloitte Consulting, Deloitte & Touch (accounting), KPMG, Ernst & Young, BDO, McGladdery, PwC, Experian, Liberty Mutual, Hitachi, Wells Fargo, Ford Motor Credit, all have minimum GPAs of at LEAST 3.0, many with 3.3 or 3.5. EMC might be the only exception since it's a firm that hires almost exclusively engineers, but even then GPA is highly relevant. Give me a break, many you get hired at a super small company, or lucked out with a larger one, but that doesn't mean that's the general rule. I even only listed these companies because they were some of the bigger ones I went to the career fairs for and talked to recruiters about, except EMC/Google/Microsoft, which were 3 my roommate had interviews with. I was explicitly told by my employer that the main reason I got the job over competition was that I had a 3.8 GPA. Also, any decent employer AFTER you get hired will perform a background check on you. Which means they'll verify you went to college... honestly...
I was going to ride the guys' ass about the GPA comment too, but you hit the nail on the head. I'm quoting for emphasis and adding that Big4 won't even look at your application unless a) you meet their minimum GPA or if your GPA is low b) you have TONS of relevant business world experience. Most GPA cutoffs are 3.3-3.5. Some are 3.0. Anyhow, as I said, I'm not going to repeat what's quoted too much.
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Do "I like it" in that I want my student loan debt forgiven? Hell yes I do. Do I think it is sound economic policy? I don't know, but probably not.
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Obama would veto Republican student loan bill, says White House
The pitched political battle over student loans isn't going away. On Friday, the White House threatened to veto a bill to keep interest rates on a popular kind of loan from doubling come July 1 because the Republican-crafted legislation pays for it by tapping a special fund in President Barack Obama's landmark health care law. The House ignored the veto threat and passed the bill anyway on Friday, with a 215-195 vote.
Obama criss-crossed the country this week in support of legislation that would keep more money in the pockets of cash-strapped college students. Republicans initially resisted the idea, but Mitt Romney quickly moved to neutralize the issue as a political weapon by embracing it in principle. House Republicans adapted by finding a clever "pay-for" solution to defray the cost of the legislation (lower interest rates = lower payments = lower revenue for the government). They chose the Prevention and Public Health Fund included in what all sides have now agreed to call "Obamacare," which Republicans have vowed to repeal.
"The Administration strongly supports serious, bipartisan efforts to prevent interest rates from doubling for over 7 million college students in the coming year," Obama's Office of Management and Budget said in a "statement of administration policy," the formal mechanism for announcing where the president stands on legislation.
"Unfortunately, rather than finding common ground on a way to pay for this critical policy, H.R. 4628 includes an attempt to repeal the Prevention and Public Health Fund, created to help prevent disease, detect it early, and manage conditions before they become severe," OMB said, warning that "women, in particular" would suffer. "This is a politically-motivated proposal and not the serious response that the problem facing America's college students deserves. If the President is presented with H.R. 4628, his senior advisors would recommend that he veto the bill," it said.
Republican House Speaker John Boehner's office pounced. "The president is so desperate to fake a fight that he's willing to veto a bill to help students over a slush fund that he advocated cutting in his own budget. It's as simple as this: Republicans are acting to help college students and the president is now getting in the way," said Boehner spokesman Brendan Buck.
Obama's budget, unveiled earlier this year, calls for tapping into the same fund to cover other programs. The Senate's Democratic majority, which will likely kill the Republican bill, has proposed covering the nearly $6 billion tab for the student loan proposal by raising taxes on wealthy Americans.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/obama-veto-republican-student-loan-bill-says-white-160233278.html
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On April 25 2012 09:33 fox77 wrote:
This bill won't pass lol.
Not designed to. It's designed to rile up the 20-30 base in outrage when the Republican party shoots it down.
Say what you want, but the Democrats no how to run a fucking campaign.
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EPT
