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On April 24 2012 01:43 phar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 00:06 Stratos_speAr wrote:On April 23 2012 09:37 FabledIntegral wrote:On April 23 2012 09:22 Lightwip wrote:On April 23 2012 07:25 phar wrote:
I do not understand why people pay $30~$40k a year for Uni and major in fields where there are no jobs. Because no one has perfect foresight. While there are plenty of people who indeed can't predict the market, etc. Its hard to feel bad for the jobless history major that took out loans. That segment at least. I mean its true that it used to just be that a degree qualified you for things, but at the same time you're building a near zero safety net with it. You're at the bottom of the food chain of bachelors degree holders. The whole thing about your staple liberal arts degree being the majority of the unemployed is a myth. Read earlier in the thread. By the way, history majors have some very high employment rates coming out of college. Are we reading the same statistics? >50% of liberal arts degree holders (undergrad) < age 25 have no jobs.
It's not just liberal arts, it's the sciences as well. It's a widely known fact that degrees in Biology/Chemistry/Psychology/Physics (if you want to do physics and not quantitative finance) are essentially useless unless you want to be stuck in dead-end, $18/hour jobs with no benefits. A quick google search will show thousands of students with these degrees being stuck in dead end jobs because the companies that used to hire these graduates no longer exist or have severely curtailed their R&D departments.
Basically, the only degrees worth anything are professional degrees (almost always >100k in debt though) and business degrees. That's it. Literally every single other degree is worthless and setting you up for failure.
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On April 24 2012 20:44 0mar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 01:43 phar wrote:On April 24 2012 00:06 Stratos_speAr wrote:On April 23 2012 09:37 FabledIntegral wrote:On April 23 2012 09:22 Lightwip wrote:On April 23 2012 07:25 phar wrote:
I do not understand why people pay $30~$40k a year for Uni and major in fields where there are no jobs. Because no one has perfect foresight. While there are plenty of people who indeed can't predict the market, etc. Its hard to feel bad for the jobless history major that took out loans. That segment at least. I mean its true that it used to just be that a degree qualified you for things, but at the same time you're building a near zero safety net with it. You're at the bottom of the food chain of bachelors degree holders. The whole thing about your staple liberal arts degree being the majority of the unemployed is a myth. Read earlier in the thread. By the way, history majors have some very high employment rates coming out of college. Are we reading the same statistics? >50% of liberal arts degree holders (undergrad) < age 25 have no jobs. It's not just liberal arts, it's the sciences as well. It's a widely known fact that degrees in Biology/Chemistry/Psychology/Physics (if you want to do physics and not quantitative finance) are essentially useless unless you want to be stuck in dead-end, $18/hour jobs with no benefits. A quick google search will show thousands of students with these degrees being stuck in dead end jobs because the companies that used to hire these graduates no longer exist or have severely curtailed their R&D departments. Basically, the only degrees worth anything are professional degrees (almost always >100k in debt though) and business degrees. That's it. Literally every single other degree is worthless and setting you up for failure.
Not true. There are lots of degrees that are in demand. It's just folks never look at current demands and projected demand (take it with a grain of salt, but it's better than not looking at all) over the next four years. I would almost always recommend people to go down a route that provides another person value...which means really find a job that will always be in want or demand. Some examples would be pretty much most medical degrees, almost all vocational / technical AS / BS / Certificates / etc., Engineering, Math / Accounting, etc.
If you want to pursue cultural and art degrees afterwards fine, do so, but don't expect to make a living with degrees that provide nearly no value to others. That's just setting yourself up to be royally screwed. People need to have some common sense.
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^Agree I would also like to add that many liberal arts degrees aren't exactly dead end, but they require you start at pretty much the bottom. Many companies just want college-level grads over high school and through gaining experience by working you can form a career. My sister had a degree in sociology and was doing clerical work for low pay but she learned the ropes of a salesman of advanced machinery and is now making as much as an engineer would. This is just an example, but work experience can affect careers just as much as degrees.
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On April 24 2012 22:08 xavra41 wrote:
^Agree I would also like to add that many liberal arts degrees aren't exactly dead end, but they require you start at pretty much the bottom. Many companies just want college-level grads over high school and through gaining experience by working you can form a career. My sister had a degree in sociology and was doing clerical work for low pay but she learned the ropes of a salesman of advanced machinery and is now making as much as an engineer would. This is just an example, but work experience can affect careers just as much as degrees.
How did the Sociology degree prepare her for doing clerical work ? My guess is that any high school grad could have done the exact same thing, and thus it's not much of an argument that her degree isn't useless. If the company required 'a college degree', then wouldn't she have been better off if her degree prepared her for 'something' ?
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On April 25 2012 01:14 Kaitlin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 22:08 xavra41 wrote:
^Agree I would also like to add that many liberal arts degrees aren't exactly dead end, but they require you start at pretty much the bottom. Many companies just want college-level grads over high school and through gaining experience by working you can form a career. My sister had a degree in sociology and was doing clerical work for low pay but she learned the ropes of a salesman of advanced machinery and is now making as much as an engineer would. This is just an example, but work experience can affect careers just as much as degrees. How did the Sociology degree prepare her for doing clerical work ? My guess is that any high school grad could have done the exact same thing, and thus it's not much of an argument that her degree isn't useless. If the company required 'a college degree', then wouldn't she have been better off if her degree prepared her for 'something' ?
Many companies won't even consider you for bottom-rung work unless you have a college degree. College grads are likely to be hard-working and intelligent (college ain't easy, although some colleges aren't hard either) and less likely to be flighty (many grads have a huge student debt, which means they're unlikely to just get bored and quit). Not a guarantee, just a broad generalization of the sort that HR workers are forced to make every day.
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On April 24 2012 20:44 0mar wrote:Basically, the only degrees worth anything are professional degrees (almost always >100k in debt though) and business degrees. That's it. Literally every single other degree is worthless and setting you up for failure.
An engineering degree from any big public state school gets you like a 98% chance of getting a job, and costs like <$40k.
I do not understand the perception that you have to pay >$25k/year for Uni, it makes no sense.
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On April 25 2012 01:37 phar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 20:44 0mar wrote:Basically, the only degrees worth anything are professional degrees (almost always >100k in debt though) and business degrees. That's it. Literally every single other degree is worthless and setting you up for failure. An engineering degree from any big public state school gets you like a 98% chance of getting a job, and costs like <$40k. I do not understand the perception that you have to pay >$25k/year for Uni, it makes no sense.
Engineering degrees are professional degrees.
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On April 25 2012 01:37 phar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 20:44 0mar wrote:Basically, the only degrees worth anything are professional degrees (almost always >100k in debt though) and business degrees. That's it. Literally every single other degree is worthless and setting you up for failure. An engineering degree from any big public state school gets you like a 98% chance of getting a job, and costs like <$40k. I do not understand the perception that you have to pay >$25k/year for Uni, it makes no sense.
Some crazy people think that maybe, just maybe, they can somehow make a living without living in front of a computer 50 hours a week. Most of them are wrong.
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On April 24 2012 20:44 0mar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 01:43 phar wrote:On April 24 2012 00:06 Stratos_speAr wrote:On April 23 2012 09:37 FabledIntegral wrote:On April 23 2012 09:22 Lightwip wrote:On April 23 2012 07:25 phar wrote:
I do not understand why people pay $30~$40k a year for Uni and major in fields where there are no jobs. Because no one has perfect foresight. While there are plenty of people who indeed can't predict the market, etc. Its hard to feel bad for the jobless history major that took out loans. That segment at least. I mean its true that it used to just be that a degree qualified you for things, but at the same time you're building a near zero safety net with it. You're at the bottom of the food chain of bachelors degree holders. The whole thing about your staple liberal arts degree being the majority of the unemployed is a myth. Read earlier in the thread. By the way, history majors have some very high employment rates coming out of college. Are we reading the same statistics? >50% of liberal arts degree holders (undergrad) < age 25 have no jobs. It's not just liberal arts, it's the sciences as well. It's a widely known fact that degrees in Biology/Chemistry/Psychology/Physics (if you want to do physics and not quantitative finance) are essentially useless unless you want to be stuck in dead-end, $18/hour jobs with no benefits. A quick google search will show thousands of students with these degrees being stuck in dead end jobs because the companies that used to hire these graduates no longer exist or have severely curtailed their R&D departments. Basically, the only degrees worth anything are professional degrees (almost always >100k in debt though) and business degrees. That's it. Literally every single other degree is worthless and setting you up for failure.
Most uneducated post I have seen on this website in a long time.
I have a degree in chemistry and I make well over $18/ hour. I'm salaried with good benefits performing quality controll on many products, some of which Im betting you have in your house right now. There's a little thing called the FDA that makes our positions mandatory and pretty permanent. Do you even work in the real world or are you still a student? I hope you're still a student so that we can chalk this up to ignorance rather than just flat-out stupidity.
Back on topic, there is no reason to forgive student loans. You know what you are borrowing before you sign you name. This bill would make the easy train even easier, I swear that people just dont want to be responsible for anything these days....
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On April 25 2012 01:46 0mar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 01:37 phar wrote:On April 24 2012 20:44 0mar wrote:Basically, the only degrees worth anything are professional degrees (almost always >100k in debt though) and business degrees. That's it. Literally every single other degree is worthless and setting you up for failure. An engineering degree from any big public state school gets you like a 98% chance of getting a job, and costs like <$40k. I do not understand the perception that you have to pay >$25k/year for Uni, it makes no sense. Engineering degrees are professional degrees.
Honestly though, what constitutes a professional degree? I've never heard that term used.
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On April 25 2012 01:51 Pillage wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 01:46 0mar wrote:On April 25 2012 01:37 phar wrote:On April 24 2012 20:44 0mar wrote:Basically, the only degrees worth anything are professional degrees (almost always >100k in debt though) and business degrees. That's it. Literally every single other degree is worthless and setting you up for failure. An engineering degree from any big public state school gets you like a 98% chance of getting a job, and costs like <$40k. I do not understand the perception that you have to pay >$25k/year for Uni, it makes no sense. Engineering degrees are professional degrees. Honestly though, what constitutes a professional degree? I've never heard that term used.
i always thought it was med/law/business
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On April 25 2012 01:37 phar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 20:44 0mar wrote:Basically, the only degrees worth anything are professional degrees (almost always >100k in debt though) and business degrees. That's it. Literally every single other degree is worthless and setting you up for failure. An engineering degree from any big public state school gets you like a 98% chance of getting a job, and costs like <$40k. I do not understand the perception that you have to pay >$25k/year for Uni, it makes no sense.
Well, I think it's a bit more than you're making it seem to be. Tuition is say 12k per year, so you're looking at around 48k now assuming tuition isn't going to increase, which it will. If you need to cover books as well say another 1k per year, or 4k total. All the stupid fucking fees that come out of university probably accumulate another $500 per year, not to mention that many universities mandate you have health insurance or you cannot attend, which is around $1,300 per year (heavily subsidized by the school to be so cheap for the coverage you get). 12k + 1k + .5k + 1.3k = 14,800. I always like to assume rent, food, and car issues are covered by working a part time job during the school year and full time during summer. So we're looking at about 15,000 per year, or 60,000 for a four year education. At least in California UC schools, that's how it works, heavily generalized. Of course, that's if you go the public education route and not the JC route.
Assuming compounding interest that begins the moment you take out each payment because you don't qualify for subsidized loans, an annual interest rate of 6.8%, a quarterly schedule where you don't attend summer, four years of attendance, and taking out loans each quarter before they start, you'd have
N = 12, I/Y = 2.667, PMT = 5,000 and thus around $68,075 of loans when you graduate with $8,075 of it being interest. Someone feel free to correct me if I did that wrong, but not in any corporate finance courses this quarter.
The numbers are slightly off as well since you don't take out each $5,000 payment on Jan 1, May 1, and Sept 1, but it should be close enough....
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dunno about the US, but a simple BSc (bachelor of science) will never land you an industry related job in chemistry/physics or whatever in toronto. it's just not possible. i know one guy that got a food inspection gig at the government with a bachelors a couple years ago, but since then they upped the requirements to a postgrad degree in microbiology or related field. so if he quit and reapplied to the same job, he would not qualify.
most of the people i know that graduated with only a BSc just switched careers, switched programs or are enrolled in a professional school.
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The amount of money you have to pay for a COLLEGE is HUGE !!!
Why not learn a foreigen language and go and make the college in another country where you will pay about nothing compared to USA. There are lots of countries where the grass is greener like ROMANIA. You look for places where the diploma is recongnized and the quality of education can be better and way more cheaper. Plus you will feel like a boss with the amount of money you take with you from USA.
With 400$ a month you could eat the whole time only in restaurants or if you cook with 150$. Rent 250$ a studio. Charges 70$ a month. The payed university is about 1000$ a year. That is (150+250+70)*12 + 1000$ = 6640$ a year and for 4 years = 6640*4 = 26560$. This will be the cost if you don't work at all the whole time and you know how to cook for your self. If you also work you will get about 400$ a month so you will gain like 400*12*4 = 19200$ year and substracting from 26560$ you whole education will only cost you 7360$
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On April 25 2012 02:58 mmagic wrote:
The amount of money you have to pay for a COLLEGE is HUGE !!!
Why not learn a foreigen language and go and make the college in another country where you will pay about nothing compared to USA. There are lots of countries where the grass is greener like ROMANIA. You look for places where the diploma is recongnized and the quality of education can be better and way more cheaper. Plus you will feel like a boss with the amount of money you take with you from USA.
With 400$ a month you could eat the whole time only in restaurants or if you cook with 150$. Rent 250$ a studio. Charges 70$ a month. The payed university is about 1000$ a year. That is (150+250+70)*12 + 1000$ = 6640$ a year and for 4 years = 6640*4 = 26560$. This will be the cost if you don't work at all the whole time and you know how to cook for your self. If you also work you will get about 400$ a month so you will gain like 400*12*4 = 19200$ year and substracting from 26560$ you whole education will only cost you 7360$
I'm glad to see that you can do numerical exercises, but how about considering non-monetary costs and travel costs. Your assumptions are too thin and don't paint the real picture. You assume a U.S. student would willingly fly out to Romania, but you need to remember that the U.S. student probably has family he/she will want to visit several times a year. On top of that, I don't know how many people would value a Romania degree in relationship with its cost savings. My guess is that if it's not recognized in the local area, it's not going to carry much value. Why would an U.S. employer consider a Romania degree candidate for which he/she knows nothing about when he/she could hire a local state school candidate and know with greater certainty what kind of employee he/she is hiring.
Much a degree's value comes from society's deemed value of the university itself. This societal value accumulates over time and rises and falls as its graduates succeed or fail among other things.
That being said, all top colleges are either in the United States/Canada, or Western Europe and maybe China/S.Korea. Romania never comes to mind, nor does many Eastern European countries. And if you're one of the majority of students not attending a top college, you strive for the "best" you can or what you can afford (hopefully both).
http://www.usnews.com/education/worlds-best-universities-rankings/top-400-universities-in-the-world
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On April 25 2012 04:13 Sox wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 02:58 mmagic wrote:
The amount of money you have to pay for a COLLEGE is HUGE !!!
Why not learn a foreigen language and go and make the college in another country where you will pay about nothing compared to USA. There are lots of countries where the grass is greener like ROMANIA. You look for places where the diploma is recongnized and the quality of education can be better and way more cheaper. Plus you will feel like a boss with the amount of money you take with you from USA.
With 400$ a month you could eat the whole time only in restaurants or if you cook with 150$. Rent 250$ a studio. Charges 70$ a month. The payed university is about 1000$ a year. That is (150+250+70)*12 + 1000$ = 6640$ a year and for 4 years = 6640*4 = 26560$. This will be the cost if you don't work at all the whole time and you know how to cook for your self. If you also work you will get about 400$ a month so you will gain like 400*12*4 = 19200$ year and substracting from 26560$ you whole education will only cost you 7360$
I'm glad to see that you can do numerical exercises, but how about considering non-monetary costs and travel costs. Your assumptions are too thin and don't paint the real picture. You assume a U.S. student would willingly fly out to Romania, but you need to remember that the U.S. student probably has family he/she will want to visit several times a year. On top of that, I don't know how many people would value a Romania degree in relationship with its cost savings. My guess is that if it's not recognized in the local area, it's not going to carry much value. Why would an U.S. employer consider a Romania degree candidate for which he/she knows nothing about when he/she could hire a local state school candidate and know with greater certainty what kind of employee he/she is hiring. Much a degree's value comes from society's deemed value of the university itself. This societal value accumulates over time and rises and falls as its graduates succeed or fail among other things. That being said, all top colleges are either in the United States/Canada, or Western Europe and maybe China/S.Korea. Romania never comes to mind, nor does many Eastern European countries. And if you're one of the majority of students not attending a top college, you strive for the "best" you can or what you can afford (hopefully both). http://www.usnews.com/education/worlds-best-universities-rankings/top-400-universities-in-the-world
As this person said, the actual quality of education isn't really as important as the name of the university and the prestige that comes along with it, not to mention unless it's a top foreign school, I'm fairly sure national schools are preferred.
The quality of education is fucking terrible at many of the classes I've attended, with professors who are only there to do research and don't know how to teach themselves. But we're ranked infinitely higher than a junior college, where the quality of education is significantly better a lot of the time. Which is why I'm so incredibly glad we have the guaranteed transfer system, so students can guarantee transfer from a JC (junior college costing a few hundred per semester) to a UC (University of California) as long as they maintain a certain GPA and take certain classes. It's truly a system that works and significantly helps the financially struggling with getting an identical degree, and potentially even a better education, than someone who attends a four year from the start.
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On April 24 2012 20:44 0mar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 01:43 phar wrote:On April 24 2012 00:06 Stratos_speAr wrote:On April 23 2012 09:37 FabledIntegral wrote:On April 23 2012 09:22 Lightwip wrote:On April 23 2012 07:25 phar wrote:
I do not understand why people pay $30~$40k a year for Uni and major in fields where there are no jobs. Because no one has perfect foresight. While there are plenty of people who indeed can't predict the market, etc. Its hard to feel bad for the jobless history major that took out loans. That segment at least. I mean its true that it used to just be that a degree qualified you for things, but at the same time you're building a near zero safety net with it. You're at the bottom of the food chain of bachelors degree holders. The whole thing about your staple liberal arts degree being the majority of the unemployed is a myth. Read earlier in the thread. By the way, history majors have some very high employment rates coming out of college. Are we reading the same statistics? >50% of liberal arts degree holders (undergrad) < age 25 have no jobs. It's not just liberal arts, it's the sciences as well. It's a widely known fact that degrees in Biology/Chemistry/Psychology/Physics (if you want to do physics and not quantitative finance) are essentially useless unless you want to be stuck in dead-end, $18/hour jobs with no benefits. A quick google search will show thousands of students with these degrees being stuck in dead end jobs because the companies that used to hire these graduates no longer exist or have severely curtailed their R&D departments. Basically, the only degrees worth anything are professional degrees (almost always >100k in debt though) and business degrees. That's it. Literally every single other degree is worthless and setting you up for failure.
This is totally, totally wrong. The fields you mentioned, like biology and psychology, often require graduate degrees to land the good jobs. But that doesn't mean that majoring in one of those subjects will cause you to be stuck in a "$18/hour job." You can do a lot with a bachelors in biology, but if you're planning on doing like, pharmaceutical research or something most bio majors seem to want to go into, you're probably going to need a Masters or even PhD.
In some fields, though, going to graduate school is virtually useless, unless you're just trying to rebrand yourself with a much better school.
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On April 25 2012 04:44 Voltaire wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 20:44 0mar wrote:On April 24 2012 01:43 phar wrote:On April 24 2012 00:06 Stratos_speAr wrote:On April 23 2012 09:37 FabledIntegral wrote:On April 23 2012 09:22 Lightwip wrote:On April 23 2012 07:25 phar wrote:
I do not understand why people pay $30~$40k a year for Uni and major in fields where there are no jobs. Because no one has perfect foresight. While there are plenty of people who indeed can't predict the market, etc. Its hard to feel bad for the jobless history major that took out loans. That segment at least. I mean its true that it used to just be that a degree qualified you for things, but at the same time you're building a near zero safety net with it. You're at the bottom of the food chain of bachelors degree holders. The whole thing about your staple liberal arts degree being the majority of the unemployed is a myth. Read earlier in the thread. By the way, history majors have some very high employment rates coming out of college. Are we reading the same statistics? >50% of liberal arts degree holders (undergrad) < age 25 have no jobs. It's not just liberal arts, it's the sciences as well. It's a widely known fact that degrees in Biology/Chemistry/Psychology/Physics (if you want to do physics and not quantitative finance) are essentially useless unless you want to be stuck in dead-end, $18/hour jobs with no benefits. A quick google search will show thousands of students with these degrees being stuck in dead end jobs because the companies that used to hire these graduates no longer exist or have severely curtailed their R&D departments. Basically, the only degrees worth anything are professional degrees (almost always >100k in debt though) and business degrees. That's it. Literally every single other degree is worthless and setting you up for failure. This is totally, totally wrong. The fields you mentioned, like biology and psychology, often require graduate degrees to land the good jobs. But that doesn't mean that majoring in one of those subjects will cause you to be stuck in a "$18/hour job." You can do a lot with a bachelors in biology, but if you're planning on doing like, pharmaceutical research or something most bio majors seem to want to go into, you're probably going to need a Masters or even PhD. In some fields, though, going to graduate school is virtually useless, unless you're just trying to rebrand yourself with a much better school.
If you need graduate training for jobs, then your BS is useless because without graduate training, you are stuck in a dead-end job or no job at all.
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On April 25 2012 05:05 0mar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 04:44 Voltaire wrote:On April 24 2012 20:44 0mar wrote:On April 24 2012 01:43 phar wrote:On April 24 2012 00:06 Stratos_speAr wrote:On April 23 2012 09:37 FabledIntegral wrote:On April 23 2012 09:22 Lightwip wrote:On April 23 2012 07:25 phar wrote:
I do not understand why people pay $30~$40k a year for Uni and major in fields where there are no jobs. Because no one has perfect foresight. While there are plenty of people who indeed can't predict the market, etc. Its hard to feel bad for the jobless history major that took out loans. That segment at least. I mean its true that it used to just be that a degree qualified you for things, but at the same time you're building a near zero safety net with it. You're at the bottom of the food chain of bachelors degree holders. The whole thing about your staple liberal arts degree being the majority of the unemployed is a myth. Read earlier in the thread. By the way, history majors have some very high employment rates coming out of college. Are we reading the same statistics? >50% of liberal arts degree holders (undergrad) < age 25 have no jobs. It's not just liberal arts, it's the sciences as well. It's a widely known fact that degrees in Biology/Chemistry/Psychology/Physics (if you want to do physics and not quantitative finance) are essentially useless unless you want to be stuck in dead-end, $18/hour jobs with no benefits. A quick google search will show thousands of students with these degrees being stuck in dead end jobs because the companies that used to hire these graduates no longer exist or have severely curtailed their R&D departments. Basically, the only degrees worth anything are professional degrees (almost always >100k in debt though) and business degrees. That's it. Literally every single other degree is worthless and setting you up for failure. This is totally, totally wrong. The fields you mentioned, like biology and psychology, often require graduate degrees to land the good jobs. But that doesn't mean that majoring in one of those subjects will cause you to be stuck in a "$18/hour job." You can do a lot with a bachelors in biology, but if you're planning on doing like, pharmaceutical research or something most bio majors seem to want to go into, you're probably going to need a Masters or even PhD. In some fields, though, going to graduate school is virtually useless, unless you're just trying to rebrand yourself with a much better school. If you need graduate training for jobs, then your BS is useless because without graduate training, you are stuck in a dead-end job or no job at all.
You don't need graduate training for "jobs" though, just CERTAIN jobs. For instance, the FBI hires people of all majors, with a starting salary of something like $60k not counting full health benefits, etc. These jobs aren't that hard to get, either (unless you have a criminal record of course), because the FBI has a bit of a social stigma. That's just one example of a job opportunity you could easily get with a bio, crim, or psych major.
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On April 25 2012 05:10 Voltaire wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 05:05 0mar wrote:On April 25 2012 04:44 Voltaire wrote:On April 24 2012 20:44 0mar wrote:On April 24 2012 01:43 phar wrote:On April 24 2012 00:06 Stratos_speAr wrote:On April 23 2012 09:37 FabledIntegral wrote:On April 23 2012 09:22 Lightwip wrote:On April 23 2012 07:25 phar wrote:
I do not understand why people pay $30~$40k a year for Uni and major in fields where there are no jobs. Because no one has perfect foresight. While there are plenty of people who indeed can't predict the market, etc. Its hard to feel bad for the jobless history major that took out loans. That segment at least. I mean its true that it used to just be that a degree qualified you for things, but at the same time you're building a near zero safety net with it. You're at the bottom of the food chain of bachelors degree holders. The whole thing about your staple liberal arts degree being the majority of the unemployed is a myth. Read earlier in the thread. By the way, history majors have some very high employment rates coming out of college. Are we reading the same statistics? >50% of liberal arts degree holders (undergrad) < age 25 have no jobs. It's not just liberal arts, it's the sciences as well. It's a widely known fact that degrees in Biology/Chemistry/Psychology/Physics (if you want to do physics and not quantitative finance) are essentially useless unless you want to be stuck in dead-end, $18/hour jobs with no benefits. A quick google search will show thousands of students with these degrees being stuck in dead end jobs because the companies that used to hire these graduates no longer exist or have severely curtailed their R&D departments. Basically, the only degrees worth anything are professional degrees (almost always >100k in debt though) and business degrees. That's it. Literally every single other degree is worthless and setting you up for failure. This is totally, totally wrong. The fields you mentioned, like biology and psychology, often require graduate degrees to land the good jobs. But that doesn't mean that majoring in one of those subjects will cause you to be stuck in a "$18/hour job." You can do a lot with a bachelors in biology, but if you're planning on doing like, pharmaceutical research or something most bio majors seem to want to go into, you're probably going to need a Masters or even PhD. In some fields, though, going to graduate school is virtually useless, unless you're just trying to rebrand yourself with a much better school. If you need graduate training for jobs, then your BS is useless because without graduate training, you are stuck in a dead-end job or no job at all. You don't need graduate training for "jobs" though, just CERTAIN jobs. For instance, the FBI hires people of all majors, with a starting salary of something like $60k not counting full health benefits, etc. These jobs aren't that hard to get, either (unless you have a criminal record of course), because the FBI has a bit of a social stigma. That's just one example of a job opportunity you could easily get with a bio, crim, or psych major.
First, you are completely wrong in thinking that a job at the FBI is not hard to get. Second, the fact that they are less strict in their requirement for a particular degree type has more to do with the fact that they hire "people", then train them to do the job. This is also the situation with certain large investment banks mentioned earlier in the thread. They have their own extended training program which teaches what is necessary for the job, These employers are a very small minority. Most jobs are with small business, or even larger business, but without a training program of several months in place, they expect you to know how to do the job coming in. Therefore, non-job related degrees are basically next to worthless.
On April 25 2012 01:51 Pillage wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 01:46 0mar wrote:On April 25 2012 01:37 phar wrote:On April 24 2012 20:44 0mar wrote:Basically, the only degrees worth anything are professional degrees (almost always >100k in debt though) and business degrees. That's it. Literally every single other degree is worthless and setting you up for failure. An engineering degree from any big public state school gets you like a 98% chance of getting a job, and costs like <$40k. I do not understand the perception that you have to pay >$25k/year for Uni, it makes no sense. Engineering degrees are professional degrees. Honestly though, what constitutes a professional degree? I've never heard that term used.
One might think of 'professional degrees' as one that leads to a career where some certification is required. Medicine, law, accounting, actuarial, engineering, nursing, etc. I'm not of the opinion that 'business' is a professional degree, only certain business degrees would be, IMO. When I was in college, there was a 'general business' major, which was a little bit of everything, but prepared you for nothing type of business degree. Business degrees in marketing and management, imo, fall short of 'professional degrees' in my eyes.
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