|
Russian Federation3631 Posts
On April 18 2012 11:06 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 10:16 IgnE wrote:
Except that you can't discharge your student loans through bankruptcy in the United States thanks George Bush and his financial industry lobbyists. You are stuck with them for life.
Ordinarily loans are an investment, and as such, a risk. Lenders risk the money on people they think can pay them. They take a risk just as much as the borrower does. The lender risks the capital, and the borrower risks having to go into bankruptcy. That's capitalism. But when the borrower can't even declare bankruptcy, it becomes free money for the lender, who is encouraged to loan as much money to as many people as possible.
So when 2008 happens, and the finance industry fucks over everyone, the borrowers, who were promised nothing but growth and jobs for anyone who got educated at college, are left holding the bag, while the lenders still get to collect all the free money they offered.
All of the conservative/libertarians here need to get a grip and come back to reality. Student default hurts everyone and the lenders are just as culpable, if not more culpable than some naive college students who were just doing what everyone else told them to do. Please note that the following is an example of what many people have said so far in this thread, with added racism and slut-shaming. BUT I DON'T WANT MY HARD EARNED TAXED MONEY FROM CRUSHING PIG ANUSES WITH MY BARE HANDS FOR THE LAST 40 YEARS TO GO TO SOME LAZY (BLACK) SORORITY (SLUT) WHO IS TOO LAZY TO GET A JOB AND WORK HARD FOR A LIVING RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE! Why the racism and slut shaming you ask? Because these kinds of posts are moronic drivel based on the same bad assumptions which dominate this thread. For example: Racism! + Show Spoiler +I DON'T WANT MY HARD EARN... GOING TO WELFARE BECAUSE IT'S ALL GOING TO GO TO BLACK PEOPLE WHO SIT AROUND DRINKING ALL DAY AND NOT GETTING A DAMN JOB!
Problems: This statement assumes that black people are the majority of welfare recipients. This statement assumes that the majority of black people on welfare are not looking for a job and are partying hard!
For example: Slut-shaming! + Show Spoiler +I DON'T WANT MY... GOING TO FREE CONTRACEPTION FOR SLUTS SO THEY CAN HAVE SEX WITHOUT CONSEQUENCES!
Problems: Women who use hormone pills are all apparently sluts... OK... This statement also assumes that making birth control pills more accessible is likely to lessen the risk of unwanted pregnancies (which I have always assumed is the intended meaning of 'consequences' in these types of discussions, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). That assumption is probably correct. This leads me to wonder what is wrong with our government, and this heinous idea that might prevent unwanted pregnancies.
For example: This topic + Show Spoiler +I DON'T WANT MY... TO GO TO SOME DEGENERATE LIBERAL HIPPIE WHO GOT A DEGREE IN THEATRE AND DIDN'T FIND A JOB! THAT HIPPIE SHOULD HAVE GONE TO COMMUNITY COLLEGE WITH THE REST OF THE POOR PEOPLE! THOSE HIPPIES SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE RESPONSIBLE! INSTEAD OF DRINKING AND PARTYING ALL THE TIME THEY SHOULD HAVE HAD A PART TIME JOB!
Problems:
Assuming that the majority of people with large student loans are financially irresponsible.
Assuming that people with large student loans don't have a job and aren't currently making payments.
Assuming that every field of study is available at a community college level or at a state college/within reasonable commute from a parent's house where they could live for free.
Assuming that the people who drink and party their asses off in college are the ones in financial trouble.
Assuming that the burden of financial responsibility lies on the person who takes out a loan. This is usually followed up by some statement about a "free market". This is probably one of the dumbest and most aggravating things in this thread.
The responsibility for a loan in a free market lies between both the lender and the recipient.
The responsibility for a student loan rests entirely on the student, because unlike traditional loans, the student cannot file for bankruptcy. This means that there is zero culpability to the lender for giving out loans.
Here is a dramatic post along the same lines as many in this thread, only this time it blames the lender instead of the recipient:
35 years old, never had a job? $40,000 in debt? Living off welfare? Well here's your loan for $80,000! Thank you for coming to Sallie Mae!
TL;DR: Morons believe the typical Republocrat bullshit, spout about paying taxes to vermin who live off of handouts, while Sallie Mae sits back and makes a cool trillion while laughing at this whole discussion, university costs go up, and the poor get poorer (and dumber thank god, otherwise they wouldn't be as easy to control). Also apologies for the slightly offtopic post, I originally only meant to use the first two as brief examples but I ended up collecting my thoughts on two other topics.
So I hate women and black people because I'm against policies that will result in accelerating unviable tuition increases? This makes a lot of sense, I rate your comment an S+.
Wait, what? Your analogies are too complex for a simpleminded Republocrat bullshitter like me.
Can't pay off $150k in loans that you spent to get a law degree delivering pizzas, no matter how much you save and scrimp.
Isn't this is a commentary about how getting a law education makes little economic sense in some cases?
|
On April 18 2012 11:10 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 11:04 BuGzlToOnl wrote:On April 18 2012 10:55 Stratos_speAr wrote:On April 18 2012 10:51 Xanbatou wrote:On April 18 2012 10:43 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2012 10:39 shinosai wrote:On April 18 2012 10:36 Xanbatou wrote:On April 18 2012 10:27 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2012 10:24 Elegance wrote:On April 18 2012 10:21 Djzapz wrote:
[quote]
Getting a job in engineering would make many, many people incredibly miserable. It's a pretty dreadful 9 to 5 job, really. And because having a dreadful 9 to 5 job is well.... dreadful, you would choose a useless degree over it and waste a shit ton of money and probably end up unemployed? God yes, I'd probably be happier with 30k from a social sciences degree with a decent job than 50-60k from an engineering degree designing stuff according to sometimes ridiculous and unnecessary standards and codes. For some people it's awesome, for others it isn't. I'm getting my masters in political sciences and I'll end up with the same salary as someone with an engineering bachelor (which takes 2 years less to get). Worth it. Would've been worth it even if I made less. Engineering -_- ugh On April 18 2012 10:26 Xanbatou wrote:On April 18 2012 10:21 Djzapz wrote:
[quote]
Getting a job in engineering would make many, many people incredibly miserable. It's a pretty dreadful 9 to 5 job, really. I think a 9 to 5 job in engineering is better than being a barista at starbucks (or something equivalent), which is what happens to many people with useless degrees. I know a girl who got a degree in international relations at a private school. She spent a huge amount of money there and is now in a lot of debt, and she can't find a job anywhere that actually uses the degree she earned. Well if she looked harder for a semi-decent job, she could get something in her field. It may not lead to a lot of money, but it wouldn't be Starbucks. Her fault. You are right, though. Some people just are not cut out for or are not interested in STEM majors. However, it's a bit silly to pay the same for your degree as someone in a STEM field since they will usually make so much more. Since education is basically teaching you how to contribute to society, I think the degrees should be valued accordingly. People that receive degrees that have lower associated salary should pay less for their education, IMO. I don't think that's feasible though =/. I really don't think this is the purpose of education at all, but we've somehow transformed education into this contest of how to better benefit the state. Pretty much. The fact that education is all about getting a job is one of our great failures. Again, education is not about getting a job. You don't have to pay for education. Like I said, you can just walk into any university and sit in on the classes and nobody will bat an eye. You are paying for the degree. You are paying for formal recognition that you completed a certain set of classes. There's no need for formal recognition for anything, except to prove to other people (employers) that you are at least semi-capable of learning things in a particular subject area. the bold part is just completely incorrect. You definitely cannot just show up to any respectable university/college and sit in a class. You'll get your ass booted out so fast your head would spin. Education:
Originally $17,500 USD of school debt. Would of cost me another $5,000 to finish degree. Don't ask me how or why, because I don't know either.
Four years of college. Two community (paid cash). Two University (loans). No degree. Three to four classes away from BA in Biological Sciences. Soft science, but better than liberal arts degree. HA!
Current debt: $10,000. One year after decision to quit school. By this time next year I should have no debt what so ever. Will be 100% debt free. How? Work. Any job you can find. There are jobs out there shut the fuck up. There are jobs out there shut the fuck up. Not jobs you will like. Not jobs that are easy. Not desk jobs. But there are jobs out there. You'll get dirty, you'll get sweaty, you'll hate life, but there's a job out there. Plenty of them. Take what you can get. Beggars can't be choosers.
My parents repeatedly told me hundreds of times that the interest would eat me. It has. And that they are willing to pay my entire debt. I said no. To this day they tell me that they are willing to pay it off. I say, no. My debt, my decision, my problem. They are not wealthy, but have savings. The debt, like this forgiveness law as many have stated before me will not magically make the debt disappear. Someone will pay it for you in one way or another.
Yes it sucks. And people basically pray on students and make them feel entrapped to go to college and get a degree. Ultimately it was your decision and your decision alone. I'm against the law. And not just because I'm almost out of debt and for me it would seem "unfair" that people will get off for free while I paid my way out. It's not that; it's because the amount of people that would take advantage of this would be massive. If they won't be held responsible for their actions now. What's to stop them from doing this again with a car or a house?
Your decisions. Just like it is the decision of a girl I know to be $100,000 in student debt and buy a brand new $26,000 car. While I've been riding a bicycle for almost a year now.
You'll find a way to make it work. In one way or another. In one shitty job or another. Those who are in debt. You'll work your way up and get out eventually little by little. Not from one day to the next like this law offers, but little by little. If you don't you'll learn nothing and just have another piece of paper - this one having fancy wording saying loan forgiveness. It's an incredibly simple concept that there are NOT jobs out there for everyone. It's not like every unemployed person is sitting on his ass not looking for a job. Just because you were able to find one doesn't mean everyone can. There are jobs out there for everyone. I've have always been able to find a job. Open any newspaper, you'll find companies looking for people to hire. Be it factory, warehouse, field work, pizza delivery anything there are jobs. If you would say there are no jobs that I like or that I can use my degree in than I would agree with you. But menial, meaningless jobs that give you no self worth and you hate. There everywhere. We should all strive to work at jobs meaningless jobs that give you no self worth and engender only bitterness and anger. Can't pay off $150k in loans that you spent to get a law degree delivering pizzas, no matter how much you save and scrimp.
No you can't. That's why you only deliver pizza's for 30 hours while you work in a factory or warehouse for another 40-50. Sacrifice social life and luxuries like internet, tv, and house phone and you'll be on your way there.
|
On April 18 2012 11:14 BuGzlToOnl wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 11:10 IgnE wrote:On April 18 2012 11:04 BuGzlToOnl wrote:On April 18 2012 10:55 Stratos_speAr wrote:On April 18 2012 10:51 Xanbatou wrote:On April 18 2012 10:43 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2012 10:39 shinosai wrote:On April 18 2012 10:36 Xanbatou wrote:On April 18 2012 10:27 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2012 10:24 Elegance wrote:
[quote]
And because having a dreadful 9 to 5 job is well.... dreadful, you would choose a useless degree over it and waste a shit ton of money and probably end up unemployed? God yes, I'd probably be happier with 30k from a social sciences degree with a decent job than 50-60k from an engineering degree designing stuff according to sometimes ridiculous and unnecessary standards and codes. For some people it's awesome, for others it isn't. I'm getting my masters in political sciences and I'll end up with the same salary as someone with an engineering bachelor (which takes 2 years less to get). Worth it. Would've been worth it even if I made less. Engineering -_- ugh On April 18 2012 10:26 Xanbatou wrote:
[quote]
I think a 9 to 5 job in engineering is better than being a barista at starbucks (or something equivalent), which is what happens to many people with useless degrees. I know a girl who got a degree in international relations at a private school. She spent a huge amount of money there and is now in a lot of debt, and she can't find a job anywhere that actually uses the degree she earned. Well if she looked harder for a semi-decent job, she could get something in her field. It may not lead to a lot of money, but it wouldn't be Starbucks. Her fault. You are right, though. Some people just are not cut out for or are not interested in STEM majors. However, it's a bit silly to pay the same for your degree as someone in a STEM field since they will usually make so much more. Since education is basically teaching you how to contribute to society, I think the degrees should be valued accordingly. People that receive degrees that have lower associated salary should pay less for their education, IMO. I don't think that's feasible though =/. I really don't think this is the purpose of education at all, but we've somehow transformed education into this contest of how to better benefit the state. Pretty much. The fact that education is all about getting a job is one of our great failures. Again, education is not about getting a job. You don't have to pay for education. Like I said, you can just walk into any university and sit in on the classes and nobody will bat an eye. You are paying for the degree. You are paying for formal recognition that you completed a certain set of classes. There's no need for formal recognition for anything, except to prove to other people (employers) that you are at least semi-capable of learning things in a particular subject area. the bold part is just completely incorrect. You definitely cannot just show up to any respectable university/college and sit in a class. You'll get your ass booted out so fast your head would spin. Education:
Originally $17,500 USD of school debt. Would of cost me another $5,000 to finish degree. Don't ask me how or why, because I don't know either.
Four years of college. Two community (paid cash). Two University (loans). No degree. Three to four classes away from BA in Biological Sciences. Soft science, but better than liberal arts degree. HA!
Current debt: $10,000. One year after decision to quit school. By this time next year I should have no debt what so ever. Will be 100% debt free. How? Work. Any job you can find. There are jobs out there shut the fuck up. There are jobs out there shut the fuck up. Not jobs you will like. Not jobs that are easy. Not desk jobs. But there are jobs out there. You'll get dirty, you'll get sweaty, you'll hate life, but there's a job out there. Plenty of them. Take what you can get. Beggars can't be choosers.
My parents repeatedly told me hundreds of times that the interest would eat me. It has. And that they are willing to pay my entire debt. I said no. To this day they tell me that they are willing to pay it off. I say, no. My debt, my decision, my problem. They are not wealthy, but have savings. The debt, like this forgiveness law as many have stated before me will not magically make the debt disappear. Someone will pay it for you in one way or another.
Yes it sucks. And people basically pray on students and make them feel entrapped to go to college and get a degree. Ultimately it was your decision and your decision alone. I'm against the law. And not just because I'm almost out of debt and for me it would seem "unfair" that people will get off for free while I paid my way out. It's not that; it's because the amount of people that would take advantage of this would be massive. If they won't be held responsible for their actions now. What's to stop them from doing this again with a car or a house?
Your decisions. Just like it is the decision of a girl I know to be $100,000 in student debt and buy a brand new $26,000 car. While I've been riding a bicycle for almost a year now.
You'll find a way to make it work. In one way or another. In one shitty job or another. Those who are in debt. You'll work your way up and get out eventually little by little. Not from one day to the next like this law offers, but little by little. If you don't you'll learn nothing and just have another piece of paper - this one having fancy wording saying loan forgiveness. It's an incredibly simple concept that there are NOT jobs out there for everyone. It's not like every unemployed person is sitting on his ass not looking for a job. Just because you were able to find one doesn't mean everyone can. There are jobs out there for everyone. I've have always been able to find a job. Open any newspaper, you'll find companies looking for people to hire. Be it factory, warehouse, field work, pizza delivery anything there are jobs. If you would say there are no jobs that I like or that I can use my degree in than I would agree with you. But menial, meaningless jobs that give you no self worth and you hate. There everywhere. We should all strive to work at jobs meaningless jobs that give you no self worth and engender only bitterness and anger. Can't pay off $150k in loans that you spent to get a law degree delivering pizzas, no matter how much you save and scrimp. No you can't. That's why you only deliver pizza's for 30 hours while you work in a factory or warehouse for another 40-50. Sacrifice social life and luxuries like internet, tv, and house phone and you'll be on your way there.
Then when I die at 80 with all my bills paid off, and a life of hard scrabble toil and endless suffering behind me, I can go to heaven right?
|
As a starting student next year, I appreciate what Obama's trying to do, but I don't like this law. You can't just let people off the hook on things like this; it sets a bad example thats just going to make them lax and start overspending.
I know I will have debt, but my parents and I chosen a college and a plan that I will be able to afford once I get out of college. Too many people completely overestimate things or aren't informed enough and it's frankly ridiculous. (And I'm speaking of some of my own friends/classmates here.)
Don't take stupid loans; if you have to take 80k in loans to go to a college, it's not the college for youand you need to downgrade. Yeah it sucks but you will only do yourself and others a favor.
|
On April 18 2012 11:10 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 11:04 BuGzlToOnl wrote:On April 18 2012 10:55 Stratos_speAr wrote:On April 18 2012 10:51 Xanbatou wrote:On April 18 2012 10:43 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2012 10:39 shinosai wrote:On April 18 2012 10:36 Xanbatou wrote:On April 18 2012 10:27 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2012 10:24 Elegance wrote:On April 18 2012 10:21 Djzapz wrote:
[quote]
Getting a job in engineering would make many, many people incredibly miserable. It's a pretty dreadful 9 to 5 job, really. And because having a dreadful 9 to 5 job is well.... dreadful, you would choose a useless degree over it and waste a shit ton of money and probably end up unemployed? God yes, I'd probably be happier with 30k from a social sciences degree with a decent job than 50-60k from an engineering degree designing stuff according to sometimes ridiculous and unnecessary standards and codes. For some people it's awesome, for others it isn't. I'm getting my masters in political sciences and I'll end up with the same salary as someone with an engineering bachelor (which takes 2 years less to get). Worth it. Would've been worth it even if I made less. Engineering -_- ugh On April 18 2012 10:26 Xanbatou wrote:On April 18 2012 10:21 Djzapz wrote:
[quote]
Getting a job in engineering would make many, many people incredibly miserable. It's a pretty dreadful 9 to 5 job, really. I think a 9 to 5 job in engineering is better than being a barista at starbucks (or something equivalent), which is what happens to many people with useless degrees. I know a girl who got a degree in international relations at a private school. She spent a huge amount of money there and is now in a lot of debt, and she can't find a job anywhere that actually uses the degree she earned. Well if she looked harder for a semi-decent job, she could get something in her field. It may not lead to a lot of money, but it wouldn't be Starbucks. Her fault. You are right, though. Some people just are not cut out for or are not interested in STEM majors. However, it's a bit silly to pay the same for your degree as someone in a STEM field since they will usually make so much more. Since education is basically teaching you how to contribute to society, I think the degrees should be valued accordingly. People that receive degrees that have lower associated salary should pay less for their education, IMO. I don't think that's feasible though =/. I really don't think this is the purpose of education at all, but we've somehow transformed education into this contest of how to better benefit the state. Pretty much. The fact that education is all about getting a job is one of our great failures. Again, education is not about getting a job. You don't have to pay for education. Like I said, you can just walk into any university and sit in on the classes and nobody will bat an eye. You are paying for the degree. You are paying for formal recognition that you completed a certain set of classes. There's no need for formal recognition for anything, except to prove to other people (employers) that you are at least semi-capable of learning things in a particular subject area. the bold part is just completely incorrect. You definitely cannot just show up to any respectable university/college and sit in a class. You'll get your ass booted out so fast your head would spin. Education:
Originally $17,500 USD of school debt. Would of cost me another $5,000 to finish degree. Don't ask me how or why, because I don't know either.
Four years of college. Two community (paid cash). Two University (loans). No degree. Three to four classes away from BA in Biological Sciences. Soft science, but better than liberal arts degree. HA!
Current debt: $10,000. One year after decision to quit school. By this time next year I should have no debt what so ever. Will be 100% debt free. How? Work. Any job you can find. There are jobs out there shut the fuck up. There are jobs out there shut the fuck up. Not jobs you will like. Not jobs that are easy. Not desk jobs. But there are jobs out there. You'll get dirty, you'll get sweaty, you'll hate life, but there's a job out there. Plenty of them. Take what you can get. Beggars can't be choosers.
My parents repeatedly told me hundreds of times that the interest would eat me. It has. And that they are willing to pay my entire debt. I said no. To this day they tell me that they are willing to pay it off. I say, no. My debt, my decision, my problem. They are not wealthy, but have savings. The debt, like this forgiveness law as many have stated before me will not magically make the debt disappear. Someone will pay it for you in one way or another.
Yes it sucks. And people basically pray on students and make them feel entrapped to go to college and get a degree. Ultimately it was your decision and your decision alone. I'm against the law. And not just because I'm almost out of debt and for me it would seem "unfair" that people will get off for free while I paid my way out. It's not that; it's because the amount of people that would take advantage of this would be massive. If they won't be held responsible for their actions now. What's to stop them from doing this again with a car or a house?
Your decisions. Just like it is the decision of a girl I know to be $100,000 in student debt and buy a brand new $26,000 car. While I've been riding a bicycle for almost a year now.
You'll find a way to make it work. In one way or another. In one shitty job or another. Those who are in debt. You'll work your way up and get out eventually little by little. Not from one day to the next like this law offers, but little by little. If you don't you'll learn nothing and just have another piece of paper - this one having fancy wording saying loan forgiveness. It's an incredibly simple concept that there are NOT jobs out there for everyone. It's not like every unemployed person is sitting on his ass not looking for a job. Just because you were able to find one doesn't mean everyone can. There are jobs out there for everyone. I've have always been able to find a job. Open any newspaper, you'll find companies looking for people to hire. Be it factory, warehouse, field work, pizza delivery anything there are jobs. If you would say there are no jobs that I like or that I can use my degree in than I would agree with you. But menial, meaningless jobs that give you no self worth and you hate. There everywhere. We should all strive to work at jobs meaningless jobs that give you no self worth and engender only bitterness and anger. Can't pay off $150k in loans that you spent to get a law degree delivering pizzas, no matter how much you save and scrimp.
Sadly, this is a price you pay for being stupid. There are consequences for things in the real world. Would you do relentless research before buying a house or car worth over $100k? I sure would. Research would tell you that law degrees are mostly for suckers in that they generally get you low paying jobs with long hours. Unless you're going to a top tier school or know someone, it is a horrible investment. I'm speaking from experience here. I thought long and hard about it. I decided not to go to law school for these very reasons. Even today at the school I go to, everyone wants to go to law school. I always want to burst their bubble, but I know they won't listen. I guess the real problem could be said that law schools should stop propagating the myth, but if people jump relatively blindly into debt... whose fault is that?
|
On April 18 2012 11:10 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 11:04 BuGzlToOnl wrote:On April 18 2012 10:55 Stratos_speAr wrote:On April 18 2012 10:51 Xanbatou wrote:On April 18 2012 10:43 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2012 10:39 shinosai wrote:On April 18 2012 10:36 Xanbatou wrote:On April 18 2012 10:27 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2012 10:24 Elegance wrote:On April 18 2012 10:21 Djzapz wrote:
[quote]
Getting a job in engineering would make many, many people incredibly miserable. It's a pretty dreadful 9 to 5 job, really. And because having a dreadful 9 to 5 job is well.... dreadful, you would choose a useless degree over it and waste a shit ton of money and probably end up unemployed? God yes, I'd probably be happier with 30k from a social sciences degree with a decent job than 50-60k from an engineering degree designing stuff according to sometimes ridiculous and unnecessary standards and codes. For some people it's awesome, for others it isn't. I'm getting my masters in political sciences and I'll end up with the same salary as someone with an engineering bachelor (which takes 2 years less to get). Worth it. Would've been worth it even if I made less. Engineering -_- ugh On April 18 2012 10:26 Xanbatou wrote:On April 18 2012 10:21 Djzapz wrote:
[quote]
Getting a job in engineering would make many, many people incredibly miserable. It's a pretty dreadful 9 to 5 job, really. I think a 9 to 5 job in engineering is better than being a barista at starbucks (or something equivalent), which is what happens to many people with useless degrees. I know a girl who got a degree in international relations at a private school. She spent a huge amount of money there and is now in a lot of debt, and she can't find a job anywhere that actually uses the degree she earned. Well if she looked harder for a semi-decent job, she could get something in her field. It may not lead to a lot of money, but it wouldn't be Starbucks. Her fault. You are right, though. Some people just are not cut out for or are not interested in STEM majors. However, it's a bit silly to pay the same for your degree as someone in a STEM field since they will usually make so much more. Since education is basically teaching you how to contribute to society, I think the degrees should be valued accordingly. People that receive degrees that have lower associated salary should pay less for their education, IMO. I don't think that's feasible though =/. I really don't think this is the purpose of education at all, but we've somehow transformed education into this contest of how to better benefit the state. Pretty much. The fact that education is all about getting a job is one of our great failures. Again, education is not about getting a job. You don't have to pay for education. Like I said, you can just walk into any university and sit in on the classes and nobody will bat an eye. You are paying for the degree. You are paying for formal recognition that you completed a certain set of classes. There's no need for formal recognition for anything, except to prove to other people (employers) that you are at least semi-capable of learning things in a particular subject area. the bold part is just completely incorrect. You definitely cannot just show up to any respectable university/college and sit in a class. You'll get your ass booted out so fast your head would spin. Education:
Originally $17,500 USD of school debt. Would of cost me another $5,000 to finish degree. Don't ask me how or why, because I don't know either.
Four years of college. Two community (paid cash). Two University (loans). No degree. Three to four classes away from BA in Biological Sciences. Soft science, but better than liberal arts degree. HA!
Current debt: $10,000. One year after decision to quit school. By this time next year I should have no debt what so ever. Will be 100% debt free. How? Work. Any job you can find. There are jobs out there shut the fuck up. There are jobs out there shut the fuck up. Not jobs you will like. Not jobs that are easy. Not desk jobs. But there are jobs out there. You'll get dirty, you'll get sweaty, you'll hate life, but there's a job out there. Plenty of them. Take what you can get. Beggars can't be choosers.
My parents repeatedly told me hundreds of times that the interest would eat me. It has. And that they are willing to pay my entire debt. I said no. To this day they tell me that they are willing to pay it off. I say, no. My debt, my decision, my problem. They are not wealthy, but have savings. The debt, like this forgiveness law as many have stated before me will not magically make the debt disappear. Someone will pay it for you in one way or another.
Yes it sucks. And people basically pray on students and make them feel entrapped to go to college and get a degree. Ultimately it was your decision and your decision alone. I'm against the law. And not just because I'm almost out of debt and for me it would seem "unfair" that people will get off for free while I paid my way out. It's not that; it's because the amount of people that would take advantage of this would be massive. If they won't be held responsible for their actions now. What's to stop them from doing this again with a car or a house?
Your decisions. Just like it is the decision of a girl I know to be $100,000 in student debt and buy a brand new $26,000 car. While I've been riding a bicycle for almost a year now.
You'll find a way to make it work. In one way or another. In one shitty job or another. Those who are in debt. You'll work your way up and get out eventually little by little. Not from one day to the next like this law offers, but little by little. If you don't you'll learn nothing and just have another piece of paper - this one having fancy wording saying loan forgiveness. It's an incredibly simple concept that there are NOT jobs out there for everyone. It's not like every unemployed person is sitting on his ass not looking for a job. Just because you were able to find one doesn't mean everyone can. There are jobs out there for everyone. I've have always been able to find a job. Open any newspaper, you'll find companies looking for people to hire. Be it factory, warehouse, field work, pizza delivery anything there are jobs. If you would say there are no jobs that I like or that I can use my degree in than I would agree with you. But menial, meaningless jobs that give you no self worth and you hate. There everywhere. We should all strive to work at meaningless jobs that give you no self worth and engender only bitterness and anger. Can't pay off $150k in loans that you spent to get a law degree delivering pizzas, no matter how much you save and scrimp.
Maybe getting that 150k law degree wasn't the best idea in the first place, and looking into the job market before deciding your major would've been a much cheaper solution. I doubt a job market would shift so drastically in 4 years with so many people getting it.
edit: TT guy above me beat me to it. in a better response
|
On April 18 2012 10:06 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 10:04 FabledIntegral wrote:
How about you don't take loans if you can't pay them off? Ppl use student loans for tons of shit besides school... I tooksome extra out to party ... why the fuck should it be forgiven i know so many people who did this... "Dude my plan worked out perfectly! I got my student loan just in time for Bonnarroo like I planned! We are gonna get soooo fucked up bro! I'm not worried about paying for school or paying the loan back, I got a job and I'll have a better one when I gotta pay the school and pay the loan back it'll be fine..."
Yeah, at least I only did it with a few thousand (for the partying). I know some who racked up tens of thousands. Didn't do shit. However, I took out those loans with full intention to pay them.
On April 18 2012 11:18 Ricemagical wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 11:10 IgnE wrote:On April 18 2012 11:04 BuGzlToOnl wrote:On April 18 2012 10:55 Stratos_speAr wrote:On April 18 2012 10:51 Xanbatou wrote:On April 18 2012 10:43 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2012 10:39 shinosai wrote:On April 18 2012 10:36 Xanbatou wrote:On April 18 2012 10:27 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2012 10:24 Elegance wrote:
[quote]
And because having a dreadful 9 to 5 job is well.... dreadful, you would choose a useless degree over it and waste a shit ton of money and probably end up unemployed? God yes, I'd probably be happier with 30k from a social sciences degree with a decent job than 50-60k from an engineering degree designing stuff according to sometimes ridiculous and unnecessary standards and codes. For some people it's awesome, for others it isn't. I'm getting my masters in political sciences and I'll end up with the same salary as someone with an engineering bachelor (which takes 2 years less to get). Worth it. Would've been worth it even if I made less. Engineering -_- ugh On April 18 2012 10:26 Xanbatou wrote:
[quote]
I think a 9 to 5 job in engineering is better than being a barista at starbucks (or something equivalent), which is what happens to many people with useless degrees. I know a girl who got a degree in international relations at a private school. She spent a huge amount of money there and is now in a lot of debt, and she can't find a job anywhere that actually uses the degree she earned. Well if she looked harder for a semi-decent job, she could get something in her field. It may not lead to a lot of money, but it wouldn't be Starbucks. Her fault. You are right, though. Some people just are not cut out for or are not interested in STEM majors. However, it's a bit silly to pay the same for your degree as someone in a STEM field since they will usually make so much more. Since education is basically teaching you how to contribute to society, I think the degrees should be valued accordingly. People that receive degrees that have lower associated salary should pay less for their education, IMO. I don't think that's feasible though =/. I really don't think this is the purpose of education at all, but we've somehow transformed education into this contest of how to better benefit the state. Pretty much. The fact that education is all about getting a job is one of our great failures. Again, education is not about getting a job. You don't have to pay for education. Like I said, you can just walk into any university and sit in on the classes and nobody will bat an eye. You are paying for the degree. You are paying for formal recognition that you completed a certain set of classes. There's no need for formal recognition for anything, except to prove to other people (employers) that you are at least semi-capable of learning things in a particular subject area. the bold part is just completely incorrect. You definitely cannot just show up to any respectable university/college and sit in a class. You'll get your ass booted out so fast your head would spin. Education:
Originally $17,500 USD of school debt. Would of cost me another $5,000 to finish degree. Don't ask me how or why, because I don't know either.
Four years of college. Two community (paid cash). Two University (loans). No degree. Three to four classes away from BA in Biological Sciences. Soft science, but better than liberal arts degree. HA!
Current debt: $10,000. One year after decision to quit school. By this time next year I should have no debt what so ever. Will be 100% debt free. How? Work. Any job you can find. There are jobs out there shut the fuck up. There are jobs out there shut the fuck up. Not jobs you will like. Not jobs that are easy. Not desk jobs. But there are jobs out there. You'll get dirty, you'll get sweaty, you'll hate life, but there's a job out there. Plenty of them. Take what you can get. Beggars can't be choosers.
My parents repeatedly told me hundreds of times that the interest would eat me. It has. And that they are willing to pay my entire debt. I said no. To this day they tell me that they are willing to pay it off. I say, no. My debt, my decision, my problem. They are not wealthy, but have savings. The debt, like this forgiveness law as many have stated before me will not magically make the debt disappear. Someone will pay it for you in one way or another.
Yes it sucks. And people basically pray on students and make them feel entrapped to go to college and get a degree. Ultimately it was your decision and your decision alone. I'm against the law. And not just because I'm almost out of debt and for me it would seem "unfair" that people will get off for free while I paid my way out. It's not that; it's because the amount of people that would take advantage of this would be massive. If they won't be held responsible for their actions now. What's to stop them from doing this again with a car or a house?
Your decisions. Just like it is the decision of a girl I know to be $100,000 in student debt and buy a brand new $26,000 car. While I've been riding a bicycle for almost a year now.
You'll find a way to make it work. In one way or another. In one shitty job or another. Those who are in debt. You'll work your way up and get out eventually little by little. Not from one day to the next like this law offers, but little by little. If you don't you'll learn nothing and just have another piece of paper - this one having fancy wording saying loan forgiveness. It's an incredibly simple concept that there are NOT jobs out there for everyone. It's not like every unemployed person is sitting on his ass not looking for a job. Just because you were able to find one doesn't mean everyone can. There are jobs out there for everyone. I've have always been able to find a job. Open any newspaper, you'll find companies looking for people to hire. Be it factory, warehouse, field work, pizza delivery anything there are jobs. If you would say there are no jobs that I like or that I can use my degree in than I would agree with you. But menial, meaningless jobs that give you no self worth and you hate. There everywhere. We should all strive to work at meaningless jobs that give you no self worth and engender only bitterness and anger. Can't pay off $150k in loans that you spent to get a law degree delivering pizzas, no matter how much you save and scrimp. Maybe getting that 150k law degree wasn't the best idea in the first place, and looking into the job market before deciding your major would've been a much cheaper solution. I doubt a job market would shift so drastically in 4 years with so many people getting it. edit: TT guy above me beat me to it. in a better response
The rate at which you have to pay back student loans in the States is dependent on your income at your work. Thus someone who's making $60k out of college their first year is going to be paying nearly 10x someone who is unemployed out of college. I know this because my roommate is making ~$60k in his first year out of college, while his gf is unemployed. They took out same type of loans, and calculated how soon they have to pay off, etc.
|
On April 18 2012 11:07 Bigtony wrote:Show nested quote +
It's an incredibly simple concept that there are NOT jobs out there for everyone. It's not like every unemployed person is sitting on his ass not looking for a job. Just because you were able to find one doesn't mean everyone can.
There are many many many jobs available right now. Just not the jobs they want in the place they want or in the field they want. There are a lot of jobs out there.
No, there are not a lot of jobs out there, and it's a load of conservative bull to actually believe this. Not only that, even in regions where there ARE a lot of meaningless, crappy jobs in fields people don't want, people don't want these jobs because they don't end up being worth the work, not because people just don't like the job.
As a starting student next year, I appreciate what Obama's trying to do, but I don't like this law. You can't just let people off the hook on things like this; it sets a bad example thats just going to make them lax and start overspending.
I know I will have debt, but my parents and I chosen a college and a plan that I will be able to afford once I get out of college. Too many people completely overestimate things or aren't informed enough and it's frankly ridiculous. (And I'm speaking of some of my own friends/classmates here.)
Don't take stupid loans; if you have to take 80k in loans to go to a college, it's not the college and you need to downgrade. Yeah it sucks but you only do yourself and others a favor
Hey guys, poor people will obviously never be able to become leading intellectuals in any field, so they just shouldn't ever bother going to anything put a cheap community college because they can't really offer that much to society or their loved ones.
|
This would just create that many much problems. For example the Nasdaq bubble was predictable from Austrian economists, the housing bubble was predictable by Austrian economics and this student loan forgiveness act will just create another instant boom, but when the bust comes it will be 10x worse.
So good intentions aside, this act is incredibly stupid. I can see this representative just playing politics and increasing his chances of election.
The government is there to enforce contracts, not to destroy them. And what about all the people that worked or saved to go to college, what about those that payed off their debts? This bill is really unfair to people who actually used their brains before instantly getting loans to go to college.
I just think people should listen to Austrian economists who've been right for over 100 years on every crisis in the Western world and not listen to socialists or Keynesian economists who've been wrong on just about everything!
|
On April 18 2012 11:18 Ricemagical wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 11:10 IgnE wrote:On April 18 2012 11:04 BuGzlToOnl wrote:On April 18 2012 10:55 Stratos_speAr wrote:On April 18 2012 10:51 Xanbatou wrote:On April 18 2012 10:43 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2012 10:39 shinosai wrote:On April 18 2012 10:36 Xanbatou wrote:On April 18 2012 10:27 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2012 10:24 Elegance wrote:
[quote]
And because having a dreadful 9 to 5 job is well.... dreadful, you would choose a useless degree over it and waste a shit ton of money and probably end up unemployed? God yes, I'd probably be happier with 30k from a social sciences degree with a decent job than 50-60k from an engineering degree designing stuff according to sometimes ridiculous and unnecessary standards and codes. For some people it's awesome, for others it isn't. I'm getting my masters in political sciences and I'll end up with the same salary as someone with an engineering bachelor (which takes 2 years less to get). Worth it. Would've been worth it even if I made less. Engineering -_- ugh On April 18 2012 10:26 Xanbatou wrote:
[quote]
I think a 9 to 5 job in engineering is better than being a barista at starbucks (or something equivalent), which is what happens to many people with useless degrees. I know a girl who got a degree in international relations at a private school. She spent a huge amount of money there and is now in a lot of debt, and she can't find a job anywhere that actually uses the degree she earned. Well if she looked harder for a semi-decent job, she could get something in her field. It may not lead to a lot of money, but it wouldn't be Starbucks. Her fault. You are right, though. Some people just are not cut out for or are not interested in STEM majors. However, it's a bit silly to pay the same for your degree as someone in a STEM field since they will usually make so much more. Since education is basically teaching you how to contribute to society, I think the degrees should be valued accordingly. People that receive degrees that have lower associated salary should pay less for their education, IMO. I don't think that's feasible though =/. I really don't think this is the purpose of education at all, but we've somehow transformed education into this contest of how to better benefit the state. Pretty much. The fact that education is all about getting a job is one of our great failures. Again, education is not about getting a job. You don't have to pay for education. Like I said, you can just walk into any university and sit in on the classes and nobody will bat an eye. You are paying for the degree. You are paying for formal recognition that you completed a certain set of classes. There's no need for formal recognition for anything, except to prove to other people (employers) that you are at least semi-capable of learning things in a particular subject area. the bold part is just completely incorrect. You definitely cannot just show up to any respectable university/college and sit in a class. You'll get your ass booted out so fast your head would spin. Education:
Originally $17,500 USD of school debt. Would of cost me another $5,000 to finish degree. Don't ask me how or why, because I don't know either.
Four years of college. Two community (paid cash). Two University (loans). No degree. Three to four classes away from BA in Biological Sciences. Soft science, but better than liberal arts degree. HA!
Current debt: $10,000. One year after decision to quit school. By this time next year I should have no debt what so ever. Will be 100% debt free. How? Work. Any job you can find. There are jobs out there shut the fuck up. There are jobs out there shut the fuck up. Not jobs you will like. Not jobs that are easy. Not desk jobs. But there are jobs out there. You'll get dirty, you'll get sweaty, you'll hate life, but there's a job out there. Plenty of them. Take what you can get. Beggars can't be choosers.
My parents repeatedly told me hundreds of times that the interest would eat me. It has. And that they are willing to pay my entire debt. I said no. To this day they tell me that they are willing to pay it off. I say, no. My debt, my decision, my problem. They are not wealthy, but have savings. The debt, like this forgiveness law as many have stated before me will not magically make the debt disappear. Someone will pay it for you in one way or another.
Yes it sucks. And people basically pray on students and make them feel entrapped to go to college and get a degree. Ultimately it was your decision and your decision alone. I'm against the law. And not just because I'm almost out of debt and for me it would seem "unfair" that people will get off for free while I paid my way out. It's not that; it's because the amount of people that would take advantage of this would be massive. If they won't be held responsible for their actions now. What's to stop them from doing this again with a car or a house?
Your decisions. Just like it is the decision of a girl I know to be $100,000 in student debt and buy a brand new $26,000 car. While I've been riding a bicycle for almost a year now.
You'll find a way to make it work. In one way or another. In one shitty job or another. Those who are in debt. You'll work your way up and get out eventually little by little. Not from one day to the next like this law offers, but little by little. If you don't you'll learn nothing and just have another piece of paper - this one having fancy wording saying loan forgiveness. It's an incredibly simple concept that there are NOT jobs out there for everyone. It's not like every unemployed person is sitting on his ass not looking for a job. Just because you were able to find one doesn't mean everyone can. There are jobs out there for everyone. I've have always been able to find a job. Open any newspaper, you'll find companies looking for people to hire. Be it factory, warehouse, field work, pizza delivery anything there are jobs. If you would say there are no jobs that I like or that I can use my degree in than I would agree with you. But menial, meaningless jobs that give you no self worth and you hate. There everywhere. We should all strive to work at meaningless jobs that give you no self worth and engender only bitterness and anger. Can't pay off $150k in loans that you spent to get a law degree delivering pizzas, no matter how much you save and scrimp. Maybe getting that 150k law degree wasn't the best idea in the first place, and looking into the job market before deciding your major would've been a much cheaper solution. I doubt a job market would shift so drastically in 4 years with so many people getting it. edit: TT guy above me beat me to it.
Then you are an idiot because it went from assured job at $160k to no job in one year. At a top 5 law school.
|
Holy shit, rofl.
It's getting old reading all the "consequences to the real world" posts. The system is broken, period.
|
On April 18 2012 11:19 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 11:07 Bigtony wrote:
It's an incredibly simple concept that there are NOT jobs out there for everyone. It's not like every unemployed person is sitting on his ass not looking for a job. Just because you were able to find one doesn't mean everyone can.
There are many many many jobs available right now. Just not the jobs they want in the place they want or in the field they want. There are a lot of jobs out there. No, there are not a lot of jobs out there, and it's a load of conservative bull to actually believe this. Not only that, even in regions where there ARE a lot of meaningless, crappy jobs in fields people don't want, people don't want these jobs because they don't end up being worth the work, not because people just don't like the job.
Not "being worth the work" is exactly like saying they don't want to do the job because they don't like it. If they really wanted a job they WOULD work for a given amount of money.
|
On April 18 2012 11:16 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 11:14 BuGzlToOnl wrote:On April 18 2012 11:10 IgnE wrote:On April 18 2012 11:04 BuGzlToOnl wrote:On April 18 2012 10:55 Stratos_speAr wrote:On April 18 2012 10:51 Xanbatou wrote:On April 18 2012 10:43 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2012 10:39 shinosai wrote:On April 18 2012 10:36 Xanbatou wrote:On April 18 2012 10:27 Djzapz wrote:
[quote]
God yes, I'd probably be happier with 30k from a social sciences degree with a decent job than 50-60k from an engineering degree designing stuff according to sometimes ridiculous and unnecessary standards and codes.
For some people it's awesome, for others it isn't. I'm getting my masters in political sciences and I'll end up with the same salary as someone with an engineering bachelor (which takes 2 years less to get). Worth it. Would've been worth it even if I made less.
Engineering -_- ugh
[quote]
Well if she looked harder for a semi-decent job, she could get something in her field. It may not lead to a lot of money, but it wouldn't be Starbucks. Her fault. You are right, though. Some people just are not cut out for or are not interested in STEM majors. However, it's a bit silly to pay the same for your degree as someone in a STEM field since they will usually make so much more. Since education is basically teaching you how to contribute to society, I think the degrees should be valued accordingly. People that receive degrees that have lower associated salary should pay less for their education, IMO. I don't think that's feasible though =/. I really don't think this is the purpose of education at all, but we've somehow transformed education into this contest of how to better benefit the state. Pretty much. The fact that education is all about getting a job is one of our great failures. Again, education is not about getting a job. You don't have to pay for education. Like I said, you can just walk into any university and sit in on the classes and nobody will bat an eye. You are paying for the degree. You are paying for formal recognition that you completed a certain set of classes. There's no need for formal recognition for anything, except to prove to other people (employers) that you are at least semi-capable of learning things in a particular subject area. the bold part is just completely incorrect. You definitely cannot just show up to any respectable university/college and sit in a class. You'll get your ass booted out so fast your head would spin. Education:
Originally $17,500 USD of school debt. Would of cost me another $5,000 to finish degree. Don't ask me how or why, because I don't know either.
Four years of college. Two community (paid cash). Two University (loans). No degree. Three to four classes away from BA in Biological Sciences. Soft science, but better than liberal arts degree. HA!
Current debt: $10,000. One year after decision to quit school. By this time next year I should have no debt what so ever. Will be 100% debt free. How? Work. Any job you can find. There are jobs out there shut the fuck up. There are jobs out there shut the fuck up. Not jobs you will like. Not jobs that are easy. Not desk jobs. But there are jobs out there. You'll get dirty, you'll get sweaty, you'll hate life, but there's a job out there. Plenty of them. Take what you can get. Beggars can't be choosers.
My parents repeatedly told me hundreds of times that the interest would eat me. It has. And that they are willing to pay my entire debt. I said no. To this day they tell me that they are willing to pay it off. I say, no. My debt, my decision, my problem. They are not wealthy, but have savings. The debt, like this forgiveness law as many have stated before me will not magically make the debt disappear. Someone will pay it for you in one way or another.
Yes it sucks. And people basically pray on students and make them feel entrapped to go to college and get a degree. Ultimately it was your decision and your decision alone. I'm against the law. And not just because I'm almost out of debt and for me it would seem "unfair" that people will get off for free while I paid my way out. It's not that; it's because the amount of people that would take advantage of this would be massive. If they won't be held responsible for their actions now. What's to stop them from doing this again with a car or a house?
Your decisions. Just like it is the decision of a girl I know to be $100,000 in student debt and buy a brand new $26,000 car. While I've been riding a bicycle for almost a year now.
You'll find a way to make it work. In one way or another. In one shitty job or another. Those who are in debt. You'll work your way up and get out eventually little by little. Not from one day to the next like this law offers, but little by little. If you don't you'll learn nothing and just have another piece of paper - this one having fancy wording saying loan forgiveness. It's an incredibly simple concept that there are NOT jobs out there for everyone. It's not like every unemployed person is sitting on his ass not looking for a job. Just because you were able to find one doesn't mean everyone can. There are jobs out there for everyone. I've have always been able to find a job. Open any newspaper, you'll find companies looking for people to hire. Be it factory, warehouse, field work, pizza delivery anything there are jobs. If you would say there are no jobs that I like or that I can use my degree in than I would agree with you. But menial, meaningless jobs that give you no self worth and you hate. There everywhere. We should all strive to work at jobs meaningless jobs that give you no self worth and engender only bitterness and anger. Can't pay off $150k in loans that you spent to get a law degree delivering pizzas, no matter how much you save and scrimp. No you can't. That's why you only deliver pizza's for 30 hours while you work in a factory or warehouse for another 40-50. Sacrifice social life and luxuries like internet, tv, and house phone and you'll be on your way there. Then when I die at 80 with all my bills paid off, and a life of hard scrabble toil and endless suffering behind me, I can go to heaven right?
You exaggerating way too much.
I would say about 25-30 years of working you'll pay off your loans. Assuming your 22 when your graduated college with a BA. You'll be 47 at the earliest. Assuming you applied yourself to at least one job and got promoted over the past 25-30 years you'll definitively pay off your loans a lot faster.
It's doable. Not the way you'll want to do it, but doable none the less.
|
On April 18 2012 11:18 acerockolla wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 11:10 IgnE wrote:On April 18 2012 11:04 BuGzlToOnl wrote:On April 18 2012 10:55 Stratos_speAr wrote:On April 18 2012 10:51 Xanbatou wrote:On April 18 2012 10:43 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2012 10:39 shinosai wrote:On April 18 2012 10:36 Xanbatou wrote:On April 18 2012 10:27 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2012 10:24 Elegance wrote:
[quote]
And because having a dreadful 9 to 5 job is well.... dreadful, you would choose a useless degree over it and waste a shit ton of money and probably end up unemployed? God yes, I'd probably be happier with 30k from a social sciences degree with a decent job than 50-60k from an engineering degree designing stuff according to sometimes ridiculous and unnecessary standards and codes. For some people it's awesome, for others it isn't. I'm getting my masters in political sciences and I'll end up with the same salary as someone with an engineering bachelor (which takes 2 years less to get). Worth it. Would've been worth it even if I made less. Engineering -_- ugh On April 18 2012 10:26 Xanbatou wrote:
[quote]
I think a 9 to 5 job in engineering is better than being a barista at starbucks (or something equivalent), which is what happens to many people with useless degrees. I know a girl who got a degree in international relations at a private school. She spent a huge amount of money there and is now in a lot of debt, and she can't find a job anywhere that actually uses the degree she earned. Well if she looked harder for a semi-decent job, she could get something in her field. It may not lead to a lot of money, but it wouldn't be Starbucks. Her fault. You are right, though. Some people just are not cut out for or are not interested in STEM majors. However, it's a bit silly to pay the same for your degree as someone in a STEM field since they will usually make so much more. Since education is basically teaching you how to contribute to society, I think the degrees should be valued accordingly. People that receive degrees that have lower associated salary should pay less for their education, IMO. I don't think that's feasible though =/. I really don't think this is the purpose of education at all, but we've somehow transformed education into this contest of how to better benefit the state. Pretty much. The fact that education is all about getting a job is one of our great failures. Again, education is not about getting a job. You don't have to pay for education. Like I said, you can just walk into any university and sit in on the classes and nobody will bat an eye. You are paying for the degree. You are paying for formal recognition that you completed a certain set of classes. There's no need for formal recognition for anything, except to prove to other people (employers) that you are at least semi-capable of learning things in a particular subject area. the bold part is just completely incorrect. You definitely cannot just show up to any respectable university/college and sit in a class. You'll get your ass booted out so fast your head would spin. Education:
Originally $17,500 USD of school debt. Would of cost me another $5,000 to finish degree. Don't ask me how or why, because I don't know either.
Four years of college. Two community (paid cash). Two University (loans). No degree. Three to four classes away from BA in Biological Sciences. Soft science, but better than liberal arts degree. HA!
Current debt: $10,000. One year after decision to quit school. By this time next year I should have no debt what so ever. Will be 100% debt free. How? Work. Any job you can find. There are jobs out there shut the fuck up. There are jobs out there shut the fuck up. Not jobs you will like. Not jobs that are easy. Not desk jobs. But there are jobs out there. You'll get dirty, you'll get sweaty, you'll hate life, but there's a job out there. Plenty of them. Take what you can get. Beggars can't be choosers.
My parents repeatedly told me hundreds of times that the interest would eat me. It has. And that they are willing to pay my entire debt. I said no. To this day they tell me that they are willing to pay it off. I say, no. My debt, my decision, my problem. They are not wealthy, but have savings. The debt, like this forgiveness law as many have stated before me will not magically make the debt disappear. Someone will pay it for you in one way or another.
Yes it sucks. And people basically pray on students and make them feel entrapped to go to college and get a degree. Ultimately it was your decision and your decision alone. I'm against the law. And not just because I'm almost out of debt and for me it would seem "unfair" that people will get off for free while I paid my way out. It's not that; it's because the amount of people that would take advantage of this would be massive. If they won't be held responsible for their actions now. What's to stop them from doing this again with a car or a house?
Your decisions. Just like it is the decision of a girl I know to be $100,000 in student debt and buy a brand new $26,000 car. While I've been riding a bicycle for almost a year now.
You'll find a way to make it work. In one way or another. In one shitty job or another. Those who are in debt. You'll work your way up and get out eventually little by little. Not from one day to the next like this law offers, but little by little. If you don't you'll learn nothing and just have another piece of paper - this one having fancy wording saying loan forgiveness. It's an incredibly simple concept that there are NOT jobs out there for everyone. It's not like every unemployed person is sitting on his ass not looking for a job. Just because you were able to find one doesn't mean everyone can. There are jobs out there for everyone. I've have always been able to find a job. Open any newspaper, you'll find companies looking for people to hire. Be it factory, warehouse, field work, pizza delivery anything there are jobs. If you would say there are no jobs that I like or that I can use my degree in than I would agree with you. But menial, meaningless jobs that give you no self worth and you hate. There everywhere. We should all strive to work at jobs meaningless jobs that give you no self worth and engender only bitterness and anger. Can't pay off $150k in loans that you spent to get a law degree delivering pizzas, no matter how much you save and scrimp. Sadly, this is a price you pay for being stupid. There are consequences for things in the real world. Would you do relentless research before buying a house or car worth over $100k? I sure would. Research would tell you that law degrees are mostly for suckers in that they generally get you low paying jobs with long hours. Unless you're going to a top tier school or know someone, it is a horrible investment. I'm speaking from experience here. I thought long and hard about it. I decided not to go to law school for these very reasons. Even today at the school I go to, everyone wants to go to law school. I always want to burst their bubble, but I know they won't listen. I guess the real problem could be said that law schools should stop propagating the myth, but if people jump relatively blindly into debt... whose fault is that?
The problem is that the consequences are batshit insane. Give me a valid argument for student loans having these kinds of default consequences.
Not "being worth the work" is exactly like saying they don't want to do the job because they don't like it. If they really wanted a job they WOULD work for a given amount of money.
Wrong. Not being worth the work means that the pay isn't enough to cover the costs of commuting/living close enough to the job, health costs, raising children, taking care of other dependents, etc. etc. etc. There are endless complications to this that spoiled brats in this thread that have never really struggled economically just do not understand.
I'm not even arguing for this bill specifically, but for the love of God something needs to be done about the absolutely horrific educational system we have here.
|
On April 18 2012 11:20 TheMatrix wrote:
This would just create that many much problems. For example the Nasdaq bubble was predictable from Austrian economists, the housing bubble was predictable by Austrian economics and this student loan forgiveness act will just create another instant boom, but when the bust comes it will be 10x worse.
So good intentions aside, this act is incredibly stupid. I can see this representative just playing politics and increasing his chances of election.
The government is there to enforce contracts, not to destroy them. And what about all the people that worked or saved to go to college, what about those that payed off their debts? This bill is really unfair to people who actually used their brains before instantly getting loans to go to college.
What are you talking about? We are already in a bubble and it's about to burst. Summer of 2012 is 3 years after the 2009 graduates who couldn't find jobs because of the 2008 collapse but still had $25k in loans they have to pay off. You get 36 months to defer payment of your loans because of unemployment. The bubble is going to burst very soon when a bunch of students default on their loans.
This bill is a way to deflate the bubble and correct for predatory lending practices and a corrupt educational industry.
|
Please, please God, I don't ask for much. Please find it in your heart to pass this beautiful, wonderful, amazing bill. Please.
|
On April 18 2012 11:24 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 11:20 TheMatrix wrote:
This would just create that many much problems. For example the Nasdaq bubble was predictable from Austrian economists, the housing bubble was predictable by Austrian economics and this student loan forgiveness act will just create another instant boom, but when the bust comes it will be 10x worse.
So good intentions aside, this act is incredibly stupid. I can see this representative just playing politics and increasing his chances of election.
The government is there to enforce contracts, not to destroy them. And what about all the people that worked or saved to go to college, what about those that payed off their debts? This bill is really unfair to people who actually used their brains before instantly getting loans to go to college. What are you talking about? We are already in a bubble and it's about to burst. Summer of 2012 is 3 years after the 2009 graduates who couldn't find jobs because of the 2008 collapse but still had $25k in loans they have to pay off. You get 36 months to defer payment of your loans because of unemployment. The bubble is going to burst very soon when a bunch of students default on their loans. This bill is a way to deflate the bubble and correct for predatory lending practices and a corrupt educational industry.
That's the worse part. It's going to be much worse extremely soon because a lot of students that are graduating have much MUCH more than 25K in loans now, while not being able to find jobs.
|
On April 18 2012 11:19 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 11:07 Bigtony wrote:
It's an incredibly simple concept that there are NOT jobs out there for everyone. It's not like every unemployed person is sitting on his ass not looking for a job. Just because you were able to find one doesn't mean everyone can.
There are many many many jobs available right now. Just not the jobs they want in the place they want or in the field they want. There are a lot of jobs out there. No, there are not a lot of jobs out there, and it's a load of conservative bull to actually believe this. Not only that, even in regions where there ARE a lot of meaningless, crappy jobs in fields people don't want, people don't want these jobs because they don't end up being worth the work, not because people just don't like the job. Show nested quote +As a starting student next year, I appreciate what Obama's trying to do, but I don't like this law. You can't just let people off the hook on things like this; it sets a bad example thats just going to make them lax and start overspending.
I know I will have debt, but my parents and I chosen a college and a plan that I will be able to afford once I get out of college. Too many people completely overestimate things or aren't informed enough and it's frankly ridiculous. (And I'm speaking of some of my own friends/classmates here.)
Don't take stupid loans; if you have to take 80k in loans to go to a college, it's not the college and you need to downgrade. Yeah it sucks but you only do yourself and others a favor Hey guys, poor people will obviously never be able to become leading intellectuals in any field, so they just shouldn't ever bother going to anything put a cheap community college because they can't really offer that much to society or their loved ones.
Well, it's SUPER easy to get interviews. Just getting the job is what's hard. What's sad to say is the vast majority of students who graduate didn't even get an interview for a single job that pays $40k+, because they still didn't know what they wanted to do, or didn't apply to enough places. If you haven't gotten any interviews for jobs, it's your fault.
I went to a middle-of-the-road/above average ranked university, didn't have a single internship, and have gotten plenty of interviews throughout the year. Big companies such as Deloitte Consulting, Hitachi, Experian, Liberty Mutual, Top 4 accounting firms + all other accountants, banks, etc. all come to career fairs and all interview a TON of people. I remember Hitachi at my school interviewed like 50+ ish students for their first round (I was one of them). Didn't get the job, but I kept going til finally found one.
That is, as long as you have a decent GPA. Major cutoffs I've seen are 3.0, 3.2, 3.3, and 3.5. If you're below that line, unless you're an engineer, you're fault. And these places take all majors, know a crim major for example who got hired as a consultant for Deloitte and started at 70k+ his first year.
|
On April 18 2012 11:22 BuGzlToOnl wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 11:16 IgnE wrote:On April 18 2012 11:14 BuGzlToOnl wrote:On April 18 2012 11:10 IgnE wrote:On April 18 2012 11:04 BuGzlToOnl wrote:On April 18 2012 10:55 Stratos_speAr wrote:On April 18 2012 10:51 Xanbatou wrote:On April 18 2012 10:43 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2012 10:39 shinosai wrote:On April 18 2012 10:36 Xanbatou wrote:
[quote]
You are right, though. Some people just are not cut out for or are not interested in STEM majors. However, it's a bit silly to pay the same for your degree as someone in a STEM field since they will usually make so much more. Since education is basically teaching you how to contribute to society, I think the degrees should be valued accordingly. People that receive degrees that have lower associated salary should pay less for their education, IMO. I don't think that's feasible though =/.
I really don't think this is the purpose of education at all, but we've somehow transformed education into this contest of how to better benefit the state. Pretty much. The fact that education is all about getting a job is one of our great failures. Again, education is not about getting a job. You don't have to pay for education. Like I said, you can just walk into any university and sit in on the classes and nobody will bat an eye. You are paying for the degree. You are paying for formal recognition that you completed a certain set of classes. There's no need for formal recognition for anything, except to prove to other people (employers) that you are at least semi-capable of learning things in a particular subject area. the bold part is just completely incorrect. You definitely cannot just show up to any respectable university/college and sit in a class. You'll get your ass booted out so fast your head would spin. Education:
Originally $17,500 USD of school debt. Would of cost me another $5,000 to finish degree. Don't ask me how or why, because I don't know either.
Four years of college. Two community (paid cash). Two University (loans). No degree. Three to four classes away from BA in Biological Sciences. Soft science, but better than liberal arts degree. HA!
Current debt: $10,000. One year after decision to quit school. By this time next year I should have no debt what so ever. Will be 100% debt free. How? Work. Any job you can find. There are jobs out there shut the fuck up. There are jobs out there shut the fuck up. Not jobs you will like. Not jobs that are easy. Not desk jobs. But there are jobs out there. You'll get dirty, you'll get sweaty, you'll hate life, but there's a job out there. Plenty of them. Take what you can get. Beggars can't be choosers.
My parents repeatedly told me hundreds of times that the interest would eat me. It has. And that they are willing to pay my entire debt. I said no. To this day they tell me that they are willing to pay it off. I say, no. My debt, my decision, my problem. They are not wealthy, but have savings. The debt, like this forgiveness law as many have stated before me will not magically make the debt disappear. Someone will pay it for you in one way or another.
Yes it sucks. And people basically pray on students and make them feel entrapped to go to college and get a degree. Ultimately it was your decision and your decision alone. I'm against the law. And not just because I'm almost out of debt and for me it would seem "unfair" that people will get off for free while I paid my way out. It's not that; it's because the amount of people that would take advantage of this would be massive. If they won't be held responsible for their actions now. What's to stop them from doing this again with a car or a house?
Your decisions. Just like it is the decision of a girl I know to be $100,000 in student debt and buy a brand new $26,000 car. While I've been riding a bicycle for almost a year now.
You'll find a way to make it work. In one way or another. In one shitty job or another. Those who are in debt. You'll work your way up and get out eventually little by little. Not from one day to the next like this law offers, but little by little. If you don't you'll learn nothing and just have another piece of paper - this one having fancy wording saying loan forgiveness. It's an incredibly simple concept that there are NOT jobs out there for everyone. It's not like every unemployed person is sitting on his ass not looking for a job. Just because you were able to find one doesn't mean everyone can. There are jobs out there for everyone. I've have always been able to find a job. Open any newspaper, you'll find companies looking for people to hire. Be it factory, warehouse, field work, pizza delivery anything there are jobs. If you would say there are no jobs that I like or that I can use my degree in than I would agree with you. But menial, meaningless jobs that give you no self worth and you hate. There everywhere. We should all strive to work at jobs meaningless jobs that give you no self worth and engender only bitterness and anger. Can't pay off $150k in loans that you spent to get a law degree delivering pizzas, no matter how much you save and scrimp. No you can't. That's why you only deliver pizza's for 30 hours while you work in a factory or warehouse for another 40-50. Sacrifice social life and luxuries like internet, tv, and house phone and you'll be on your way there. Then when I die at 80 with all my bills paid off, and a life of hard scrabble toil and endless suffering behind me, I can go to heaven right? You exaggerating way too much. I would say about 25-30 years of working you'll pay off your loans. Assuming your 22 when your graduated college with a BA. You'll be 47 at the earliest. Assuming you applied yourself to at least one job and got promoted over the past 25-30 years you'll definitively pay off your loans a lot faster. It's doable. Not the way you'll want to do it, but doable none the less.
I don't think you realize that these "promotions" you are talking about in the manual labor jobs don't exist anymore. Thanks to globalization, Americans will never again make living wages doing menial labor and "hard jobs" that no one supposedly wants to do. The only people who make living wages now are the baby boomers who have been grandfathered in, that is if they weren't just laid off as more and more manufacturing jobs go over to China, India, Brazil, and the rest of the world.
But I guess everyone who says there are jobs out there is content to live on third world wages in sweat shops if that is all that's available.
|
On April 18 2012 09:20 sc2superfan101 wrote:
i dont like it. no one forgave my parents student loans that they spent years working off, so why does anyone else deserve it? balderdash.
Tuition costs and the cost of attending university have skyrocketed several hundred percent since your parents' time. Spending 10% of your income for 10 years is probably still well beyond what they paid after inflation is controlled for. The total student loan debt in America is comparable to the total credit card debt, and 4 year degrees are only growing less and less useful.
I thank the lord every day that I only graduated with 7k in loan debt from attending a relatively inexpensive institution, living in impoverished circumstances, taking a few classes at community college during summers, and getting a few scholarships my last 2 years. I was totally unable to find a job after graduating and even now find myself in a field where a college degree is near worthless (I'm a personal trainer). I would just be so god damn fucked if I had like 30k+ debt like a lot of friends I know.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
