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On April 18 2012 11:58 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 11:56 Millitron wrote:
The real student loan problem is that not all degrees have opportunities for employment, so the people who took those degrees are stuck in thousands of dollars in debt, and are only qualified to work at McDonald's.
I don't mean to sound mean here, but what could they possibly expect when they signed up for some liberal art major? In all seriousness, what job can someone get with a degree in something like Shakespearean Drama or Classical Scuplture? I don't see many places hiring playwrights or sculptors these days.
I'm aware that this isn't the whole problem, and plenty of people with practical degrees get stuck too, but that can be solved by bigger and more frequent scholarships, without needing outlandish laws. Read a few pages back. That isn't even close to the real problem. I'll just quote it. Show nested quote +According to the National Center for Education Statistics, humanities majors account for about 12 percent of recent graduates, and art history majors are so rare they’re lost in the noise. They account for less than 0.2 percent of working adults with college degrees, a number that is probably about right for recent graduates, too. Yet somehow art history has become the go-to example for people bemoaning the state of higher education.
A longtime acquaintance perfectly captured the dominant Internet memes in an e-mail he sent me after my last column, which was on rising tuitions. “Many people that go to college lack the smarts and/or the tenacity to benefit in any real sense,” he wrote. “Many of these people would be much better off becoming plumbers -- including financially. (No shame in that, who’re you gonna call when your pipes freeze in the middle of the night? An M.A. in Italian art?)”
While government subsidies may indeed distort the choice to go to college in the first place, it’s simply not the case that students are blissfully ignoring the job market in choosing majors. Contrary to what critics imagine, most Americans in fact go to college for what they believe to be “skill-based education.”
A quarter of them study business, by far the most popular field, and 16 percent major in one of the so-called Stem (science, technology, engineering and math) fields. Throw in economics, and you have nearly half of all graduates studying the only subjects such contemptuous pundits recognize as respectable.
The rest, however, aren’t sitting around discussing Aristotle and Foucault.
Most are studying things that sound like job preparation, including all sorts of subjects related to health and education. Even the degree with the highest rate of unemployment -- architecture, whose 13.9 percent jobless rate reflects the current construction bust -- is a pre-professional major.
Diversity of Jobs
The students who come out of school without jobs aren’t, for the most part, starry-eyed liberal arts majors but rather people who thought a degree in business, graphic design or nursing was a practical, job-oriented credential. Even the latest target of Internet mockery, a young woman the New York Times recently described as studying for a master’s in communication with hopes of doing public relations for a nonprofit, is in what she perceives as a job-training program.
The higher-education system does have real problems, including rising tuition prices that may not pay off in higher earnings. But those problems won’t be solved by assuming that if American students would just stop studying stupid subjects like philosophy and art history and buckle down and major in petroleum engineering (the highest-paid major), the economy would flourish and everyone would have lucrative careers. Funny side note: Philosophy/history majors end up with some of the highest employment rates after graduation.
Right, the problem is people are taking on loans way larger than they should be and then when they come out of college and see 30k-100k in dead they wring their hands and go "wtf where did all this come from?
It's not even a jab at poor people or anything, I honestly think this is more prevalent among middle class people who simply don't bother to plan or to think about their future and it's not only ignorant but inexcusable. Most poor people know they're not going to be able to afford it anyways so they don't apply.
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On April 18 2012 09:20 sc2superfan101 wrote:
i dont like it. no one forgave my parents student loans that they spent years working off, so why does anyone else deserve it? balderdash.
I don't like this Abraham Lincoln guy. My parents were slaves to the white men and they never got freed. Now why should I be emancipated? Balderdash.
I really hope my rhetoric is understood here so I don't get banned for promoting slavery or something O_o
On topic: I think this is really cool. As a student, this sounds really nice because it guarantees that I will only be in debt for ten years. I plan to become a high school teacher, so I will be paying off loans for many more than ten years I expect.
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On April 18 2012 12:05 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 11:58 Stratos_speAr wrote:On April 18 2012 11:56 Millitron wrote:
The real student loan problem is that not all degrees have opportunities for employment, so the people who took those degrees are stuck in thousands of dollars in debt, and are only qualified to work at McDonald's.
I don't mean to sound mean here, but what could they possibly expect when they signed up for some liberal art major? In all seriousness, what job can someone get with a degree in something like Shakespearean Drama or Classical Scuplture? I don't see many places hiring playwrights or sculptors these days.
I'm aware that this isn't the whole problem, and plenty of people with practical degrees get stuck too, but that can be solved by bigger and more frequent scholarships, without needing outlandish laws. Read a few pages back. That isn't even close to the real problem. I'll just quote it. According to the National Center for Education Statistics, humanities majors account for about 12 percent of recent graduates, and art history majors are so rare they’re lost in the noise. They account for less than 0.2 percent of working adults with college degrees, a number that is probably about right for recent graduates, too. Yet somehow art history has become the go-to example for people bemoaning the state of higher education.
A longtime acquaintance perfectly captured the dominant Internet memes in an e-mail he sent me after my last column, which was on rising tuitions. “Many people that go to college lack the smarts and/or the tenacity to benefit in any real sense,” he wrote. “Many of these people would be much better off becoming plumbers -- including financially. (No shame in that, who’re you gonna call when your pipes freeze in the middle of the night? An M.A. in Italian art?)”
While government subsidies may indeed distort the choice to go to college in the first place, it’s simply not the case that students are blissfully ignoring the job market in choosing majors. Contrary to what critics imagine, most Americans in fact go to college for what they believe to be “skill-based education.”
A quarter of them study business, by far the most popular field, and 16 percent major in one of the so-called Stem (science, technology, engineering and math) fields. Throw in economics, and you have nearly half of all graduates studying the only subjects such contemptuous pundits recognize as respectable.
The rest, however, aren’t sitting around discussing Aristotle and Foucault.
Most are studying things that sound like job preparation, including all sorts of subjects related to health and education. Even the degree with the highest rate of unemployment -- architecture, whose 13.9 percent jobless rate reflects the current construction bust -- is a pre-professional major.
Diversity of Jobs
The students who come out of school without jobs aren’t, for the most part, starry-eyed liberal arts majors but rather people who thought a degree in business, graphic design or nursing was a practical, job-oriented credential. Even the latest target of Internet mockery, a young woman the New York Times recently described as studying for a master’s in communication with hopes of doing public relations for a nonprofit, is in what she perceives as a job-training program.
The higher-education system does have real problems, including rising tuition prices that may not pay off in higher earnings. But those problems won’t be solved by assuming that if American students would just stop studying stupid subjects like philosophy and art history and buckle down and major in petroleum engineering (the highest-paid major), the economy would flourish and everyone would have lucrative careers. Funny side note: Philosophy/history majors end up with some of the highest employment rates after graduation. Right, the problem is people are taking on loans way larger than they should be and then when they come out of college and see 30k-100k in dead they wring their hands and go "wtf where did all this come from? It's not even a jab at poor people or anything, I honestly think this is more prevalent among middle class people who simply don't bother to plan or to think about their future and it's not only ignorant but inexcusable. Most poor people know they're not going to be able to afford it anyways so they don't apply.
Who is giving them money? People who will get paid regardless.
But you are right. Totally inexcusable for people to take out loans when everyone around them is telling them that that's the best way for them to get ahead in life, and everyone ahead of them is having a great time in college and seemingly doing ok when they graduate.
Fast forward to 2009 and the jobs are gone, unemployment is skyrocketing. But the middle class people should have foreseen that.
At least the lenders are still going to get their money.
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On April 18 2012 09:20 sc2superfan101 wrote:
i dont like it. no one forgave my parents student loans that they spent years working off, so why does anyone else deserve it? balderdash.
Because many died from cancer already, if they discover the cure, they shouldnt use it because of those that already died of cancer?
You should be happy for the ones that will be beneficiated with that.
Its like when ppl buy a game and 2 years later, the price goes on offer for $5 and then they complain how they paid the full price of the item
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I wonder what the mindset of becoming a millionaire is doing here. Why does everyone want a job that makes you 6 digits? After working and saving money for 5 years I'll be attending a college for a degree that will cost me 15k. I'll be able to pay it all up front. Normally the most money ill be able to make with the degree will be around 50 to 60k a year, but it's perfectly acceptable to me and I'll be living a life i love. Are most of these college loans taken with the thought of "I must attend a good 4 year college to get a decent job" or "I gotta attend a good 4 year college to get my degree to get rich"?
Issues with money are all pretty sad to be honest =( and I can understand both sides of the argument.
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On April 18 2012 12:03 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 12:01 Drowsy wrote:On April 18 2012 11:18 acerockolla wrote:On April 18 2012 11:10 IgnE wrote:On April 18 2012 11:04 BuGzlToOnl wrote:On April 18 2012 10:55 Stratos_speAr wrote:On April 18 2012 10:51 Xanbatou wrote:On April 18 2012 10:43 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2012 10:39 shinosai wrote:On April 18 2012 10:36 Xanbatou wrote:
[quote]
You are right, though. Some people just are not cut out for or are not interested in STEM majors. However, it's a bit silly to pay the same for your degree as someone in a STEM field since they will usually make so much more. Since education is basically teaching you how to contribute to society, I think the degrees should be valued accordingly. People that receive degrees that have lower associated salary should pay less for their education, IMO. I don't think that's feasible though =/.
I really don't think this is the purpose of education at all, but we've somehow transformed education into this contest of how to better benefit the state. Pretty much. The fact that education is all about getting a job is one of our great failures. Again, education is not about getting a job. You don't have to pay for education. Like I said, you can just walk into any university and sit in on the classes and nobody will bat an eye. You are paying for the degree. You are paying for formal recognition that you completed a certain set of classes. There's no need for formal recognition for anything, except to prove to other people (employers) that you are at least semi-capable of learning things in a particular subject area. the bold part is just completely incorrect. You definitely cannot just show up to any respectable university/college and sit in a class. You'll get your ass booted out so fast your head would spin. Education:
Originally $17,500 USD of school debt. Would of cost me another $5,000 to finish degree. Don't ask me how or why, because I don't know either.
Four years of college. Two community (paid cash). Two University (loans). No degree. Three to four classes away from BA in Biological Sciences. Soft science, but better than liberal arts degree. HA!
Current debt: $10,000. One year after decision to quit school. By this time next year I should have no debt what so ever. Will be 100% debt free. How? Work. Any job you can find. There are jobs out there shut the fuck up. There are jobs out there shut the fuck up. Not jobs you will like. Not jobs that are easy. Not desk jobs. But there are jobs out there. You'll get dirty, you'll get sweaty, you'll hate life, but there's a job out there. Plenty of them. Take what you can get. Beggars can't be choosers.
My parents repeatedly told me hundreds of times that the interest would eat me. It has. And that they are willing to pay my entire debt. I said no. To this day they tell me that they are willing to pay it off. I say, no. My debt, my decision, my problem. They are not wealthy, but have savings. The debt, like this forgiveness law as many have stated before me will not magically make the debt disappear. Someone will pay it for you in one way or another.
Yes it sucks. And people basically pray on students and make them feel entrapped to go to college and get a degree. Ultimately it was your decision and your decision alone. I'm against the law. And not just because I'm almost out of debt and for me it would seem "unfair" that people will get off for free while I paid my way out. It's not that; it's because the amount of people that would take advantage of this would be massive. If they won't be held responsible for their actions now. What's to stop them from doing this again with a car or a house?
Your decisions. Just like it is the decision of a girl I know to be $100,000 in student debt and buy a brand new $26,000 car. While I've been riding a bicycle for almost a year now.
You'll find a way to make it work. In one way or another. In one shitty job or another. Those who are in debt. You'll work your way up and get out eventually little by little. Not from one day to the next like this law offers, but little by little. If you don't you'll learn nothing and just have another piece of paper - this one having fancy wording saying loan forgiveness. It's an incredibly simple concept that there are NOT jobs out there for everyone. It's not like every unemployed person is sitting on his ass not looking for a job. Just because you were able to find one doesn't mean everyone can. There are jobs out there for everyone. I've have always been able to find a job. Open any newspaper, you'll find companies looking for people to hire. Be it factory, warehouse, field work, pizza delivery anything there are jobs. If you would say there are no jobs that I like or that I can use my degree in than I would agree with you. But menial, meaningless jobs that give you no self worth and you hate. There everywhere. We should all strive to work at jobs meaningless jobs that give you no self worth and engender only bitterness and anger. Can't pay off $150k in loans that you spent to get a law degree delivering pizzas, no matter how much you save and scrimp. Sadly, this is a price you pay for being stupid. There are consequences for things in the real world. Would you do relentless research before buying a house or car worth over $100k? I sure would. Research would tell you that law degrees are mostly for suckers in that they generally get you low paying jobs with long hours. Unless you're going to a top tier school or know someone, it is a horrible investment. I'm speaking from experience here. I thought long and hard about it. I decided not to go to law school for these very reasons. Even today at the school I go to, everyone wants to go to law school. I always want to burst their bubble, but I know they won't listen. I guess the real problem could be said that law schools should stop propagating the myth, but if people jump relatively blindly into debt... whose fault is that? I think ultimately expecting people to simply wise up is a poor one when there's been a decades long push for everyone to attend college that won't easily be reversed. What ultimately needs to happen is that student loans need to become far less available and accessible to students. I think some active discrimination needs to happen as well; your ability to procure loans ought to be based directly off your prospects of actually graduating and finding employment in your field of study. So the communications major in the fraternity with a 2.2 gpa simply doesn't have the same access to the same loans a kid in a nursing program with a 3.8 does. Right now I bet you could make the argument that those of lesser academic merit/employment marketability are actually more likely to take out loans because they're less likely to get merit based financial aid. I really doubt you could, and that's fairly insulting to make that suggestion. Also, I find it highly disturbing that we want to just discriminate against what people want to do with their lives. What kind of society would we have if we only encouraged people to be scientists/business people? Do you really want to tell me that our culture doesn't need arts/humanities/social sciences?
of course we need arts/humanities/social sciences. Do we need them as badly as scientists/medical practitioners/engineers? Hell no. Do those arts/humanities folks need specific instruction from highly trained professionals with graduate degrees to the same extent as the scientists? Of course not. Is it worth creating a debt crisis so that they are able to receive that instruction? I would argue no.
When you give out a loan in any other capacity, discriminating based on what will be done with that money is EXACTLY WHAT YOU DO to determine whether or not it will be a profitable loan. Denying a loan that will go toward a half-assed education in a largely extraneous field isn't discriminatory or mean-spirited; it seems entirely rational. Besides, its not as if the liberal arts buildings across America will simply close their doors; it would just be a lot more difficult to coast by and get an "easy" degree in college with borrowed money.
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On April 18 2012 11:51 UmiNotsuki wrote:
This is a terrible, TERRIBLE idea. I say this as a student expecting to carry hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt when I graduate.
This will be a HUGE (HUUUUUUUUUUGE) blow to the income banks make from student loans. This fucks with the economy and would likely result in either HUGE increases in interest rates across all loans to make up for the loss, or the lack of offering student loans in the first place (which in turn would cause the government to force them to offer them which would in turn force the first issue, which would in turn cause the government to mandate lower interest rates which would in turn drive banks out of business which would in turn ruin jobs and make it so NO ONE can afford to go to college which would in turn make private universities go bankrupt which would in turn force government subsidy of public university... you know what, you get the picture, go read Atlas Shrugged if you want the whole story.)
Bad plan.
sarcasm? or just not going to a good school? banks no longer make money of school loans... that stopped 2 years ago? im not sure when Obama signed that bill but now its just the gov that makes the cash. Also how is graduating students not being drowned in debt a good thing? a debt forgiveness program is a great idea, i really like the part where the public service clause is cut in half; all you have to do is give back by teaching for 5 years and the debt is forgiven!
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Terrible idea. America will have ten million philosophers and sociologists and no one to do actual jobs that contribute to society.
And no. If no one will even pay you to use the skills you've learned, those skills are not useful to society.
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On April 18 2012 12:10 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 12:05 1Eris1 wrote:On April 18 2012 11:58 Stratos_speAr wrote:On April 18 2012 11:56 Millitron wrote:
The real student loan problem is that not all degrees have opportunities for employment, so the people who took those degrees are stuck in thousands of dollars in debt, and are only qualified to work at McDonald's.
I don't mean to sound mean here, but what could they possibly expect when they signed up for some liberal art major? In all seriousness, what job can someone get with a degree in something like Shakespearean Drama or Classical Scuplture? I don't see many places hiring playwrights or sculptors these days.
I'm aware that this isn't the whole problem, and plenty of people with practical degrees get stuck too, but that can be solved by bigger and more frequent scholarships, without needing outlandish laws. Read a few pages back. That isn't even close to the real problem. I'll just quote it. According to the National Center for Education Statistics, humanities majors account for about 12 percent of recent graduates, and art history majors are so rare they’re lost in the noise. They account for less than 0.2 percent of working adults with college degrees, a number that is probably about right for recent graduates, too. Yet somehow art history has become the go-to example for people bemoaning the state of higher education.
A longtime acquaintance perfectly captured the dominant Internet memes in an e-mail he sent me after my last column, which was on rising tuitions. “Many people that go to college lack the smarts and/or the tenacity to benefit in any real sense,” he wrote. “Many of these people would be much better off becoming plumbers -- including financially. (No shame in that, who’re you gonna call when your pipes freeze in the middle of the night? An M.A. in Italian art?)”
While government subsidies may indeed distort the choice to go to college in the first place, it’s simply not the case that students are blissfully ignoring the job market in choosing majors. Contrary to what critics imagine, most Americans in fact go to college for what they believe to be “skill-based education.”
A quarter of them study business, by far the most popular field, and 16 percent major in one of the so-called Stem (science, technology, engineering and math) fields. Throw in economics, and you have nearly half of all graduates studying the only subjects such contemptuous pundits recognize as respectable.
The rest, however, aren’t sitting around discussing Aristotle and Foucault.
Most are studying things that sound like job preparation, including all sorts of subjects related to health and education. Even the degree with the highest rate of unemployment -- architecture, whose 13.9 percent jobless rate reflects the current construction bust -- is a pre-professional major.
Diversity of Jobs
The students who come out of school without jobs aren’t, for the most part, starry-eyed liberal arts majors but rather people who thought a degree in business, graphic design or nursing was a practical, job-oriented credential. Even the latest target of Internet mockery, a young woman the New York Times recently described as studying for a master’s in communication with hopes of doing public relations for a nonprofit, is in what she perceives as a job-training program.
The higher-education system does have real problems, including rising tuition prices that may not pay off in higher earnings. But those problems won’t be solved by assuming that if American students would just stop studying stupid subjects like philosophy and art history and buckle down and major in petroleum engineering (the highest-paid major), the economy would flourish and everyone would have lucrative careers. Funny side note: Philosophy/history majors end up with some of the highest employment rates after graduation. Right, the problem is people are taking on loans way larger than they should be and then when they come out of college and see 30k-100k in dead they wring their hands and go "wtf where did all this come from? It's not even a jab at poor people or anything, I honestly think this is more prevalent among middle class people who simply don't bother to plan or to think about their future and it's not only ignorant but inexcusable. Most poor people know they're not going to be able to afford it anyways so they don't apply. Who is giving them money? People who will get paid regardless. But you are right. Totally inexcusable for people to take out loans when everyone around them is telling them that that's the best way for them to get ahead in life, and everyone ahead of them is having a great time in college and seemingly doing ok when they graduate. Fast forward to 2009 and the jobs are gone, unemployment is skyrocketing. But the middle class people should have foreseen that. At least the lenders are still going to get their money.
There's nothing wrong with taking out loans, you just have to be reasonable about it. No one is saying "go put yourself massively in debt" and it's ridiculous to think that just because someone says something you should do it. That's one of the hugest problems with America (both liberals and conservatives), most of the time people just listen to ramblings and do exactly what they say without doing their own research.
And no, I'm not saying they should have foreseen it; I'm saying they shouldn't have been reckless. My parents lost a lot of money in the 2007-8 crash and now I'm not going to anywhere near the college of my choice, but oh well. Actions have consequences and some people need to realize that. Political and economic apathy in this country is absolutely retarded and it's never going to go away if we keep propping it up.
You do realize the "lender" in this case is the Federal Government right? And you do realize how deep in debt it is right now? But sure, just keep piling it on. Wonder how we'll all do when it suffers
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Russian Federation3631 Posts
Also, I find it highly disturbing that we want to just discriminate against what people want to do with their lives.
There's a lot of areas in which society discriminates against "what certain people want to do with their lives."
I hardly see how "not financially enabling" X behavior translates to "discriminating against" X behavior, at least not if you want to make the term "discriminating against" meaningful at all.
If no one will even pay you to use the skills you've learned, those skills are not useful to society.
I'm sure internet commenter of renown Stratos_Spear knows a lot more about the intrinsic worth of professions than society's employers.
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On April 18 2012 12:20 politik wrote:
And no. If no one will even pay you to use the skills you've learned, those skills are not useful to society profitable for major corporations.
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On April 18 2012 12:14 beatitudes wrote:
I wonder what the mindset of becoming a millionaire is doing here. Why does everyone want a job that makes you 6 digits? After working and saving money for 5 years I'll be attending a college for a degree that will cost me 15k. I'll be able to pay it all up front. Normally the most money ill be able to make with the degree will be around 50 to 60k a year, but it's perfectly acceptable to me and I'll be living a life i love. Are most of these college loans taken with the thought of "I must attend a good 4 year college to get a decent job" or "I gotta attend a good 4 year college to get my degree to get rich"?
Issues with money are all pretty sad to be honest =( and I can understand both sides of the argument.
What you are hinting towards is definitely part of the issue. People are reaching beyond their capabilities. There are many causes for this, but the fact is that many people have inflated senses of self worth. We all wanted to be something amazing like a fighter pilot or rock star as a kid, but eventually we come to the realization of what we are actually capable of. There's too much "you can be anything you want to be" passed around. We also celebrate everyone going to college, even when it's obvious to everyone else it's a fruitless endeavor for the person. Every issue in the world could be solved by a parents tough love, which seems to be disappearing.
I joined the military out of high school, mainly because my parents used a bit of tough love on me by not obtaining an easily obtainable scholarship. It was get some job I didn't want to do, or give the military a chance. I gave the military a chance, gained a ton of experience. Now that I appreciate school, I am one semester away from my BA with a 3.99 GPA. The degree coupled with my experience gaurantees a six figure job in the DC area. If I wasn't given a bit of tough love, I would have undoubtedly taken out school loans straight out of high school and floundered in college. I wouldn't have graduated and I would be loaded with debt.
Since we all know you can't expect parents to do their job, the government must step in. This bill is obviously not the solution, but I guess it's good that it's drumming up a lot of discussion and bringing attention to the fact that the system is indeed broken.
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On April 18 2012 11:51 UmiNotsuki wrote:
This is a terrible, TERRIBLE idea. I say this as a student expecting to carry hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt when I graduate.
This will be a HUGE (HUUUUUUUUUUGE) blow to the income banks make from student loans. This fucks with the economy and would likely result in either HUGE increases in interest rates across all loans to make up for the loss, or the lack of offering student loans in the first place (which in turn would cause the government to force them to offer them which would in turn force the first issue, which would in turn cause the government to mandate lower interest rates which would in turn drive banks out of business which would in turn ruin jobs and make it so NO ONE can afford to go to college which would in turn make private universities go bankrupt which would in turn force government subsidy of public university... you know what, you get the picture, go read Atlas Shrugged if you want the whole story.)
Bad plan.
ooooorrrr the government elects NOT to force the institutions to offer student loans. Then student loan availability becomes greatly diminished. Colleges experience dramatically falling enrollment and are forced to downsize their outrageous budgets and rectify their bureaucratic habits. People who aren't a good fit for college stop attending from being unable to attain funding, and the total student loan debt in America has become much smaller, back under control, and no longer growing at outrageous and unsustainable rates.
Just food for thought.
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On April 18 2012 12:20 politik wrote:
Terrible idea. America will have ten million philosophers and sociologists and no one to do actual jobs that contribute to society.
And no. If no one will even pay you to use the skills you've learned, those skills are not useful to society.
you sir.... oh sir i don't know how to respond to you.... first off those skills are very useful to society, just because you dont see them every day does not mean things are not useful. Secondly someone posted early in this thread that only 14% of all college graduates have a liberal arts degree, over 50% of graduates have a business / STEM degree, not all of these people get jobs and many of them have huge amounts of debt. This idea that if education was free(or had no consequences for a low paying major) everyone would just get a shitty education is bullshit, not everyone can do a 9-5 job where they crunch numbers and contribute nothing to the world. If you ask me the people who are useless in society are the people who sit in a cubical and can be replaced at a moments notice with someone else who can do the same thing they did in the exact same way.
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On April 18 2012 12:27 Drowsy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 11:51 UmiNotsuki wrote:
This is a terrible, TERRIBLE idea. I say this as a student expecting to carry hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt when I graduate.
This will be a HUGE (HUUUUUUUUUUGE) blow to the income banks make from student loans. This fucks with the economy and would likely result in either HUGE increases in interest rates across all loans to make up for the loss, or the lack of offering student loans in the first place (which in turn would cause the government to force them to offer them which would in turn force the first issue, which would in turn cause the government to mandate lower interest rates which would in turn drive banks out of business which would in turn ruin jobs and make it so NO ONE can afford to go to college which would in turn make private universities go bankrupt which would in turn force government subsidy of public university... you know what, you get the picture, go read Atlas Shrugged if you want the whole story.)
Bad plan. ooooorrrr the government elects NOT to force the institutions to offer student loans. Then student loan availability becomes greatly diminished. Colleges experience dramatically falling enrollment and are forced to downsize their outrageous budgets and rectify their bureaucratic habits. People who aren't a good fit for college stop attending from being unable to attain funding, and the total student loan debt in America has become much smaller, back under control, and no longer growing at outrageous and unsustainable rates. Just food for thought.
this also leads to a largely uneducated working class..... we have that before and it didnt turn out to well for the working class
just food for thought
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I honestly think it's a bad idea.
Some people will attend an expensive school (~$40-50k / year) for 4 to 5 years to get a liberal arts degree which will net them a job that will only pay $30-40kish / year. After 10 years of paying 10% of their discretionary income (roughly 10-15k), they will get their entire loans paid off at my (and other taxpayer's) expense.
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On April 18 2012 12:28 Deathmanbob wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 12:27 Drowsy wrote:On April 18 2012 11:51 UmiNotsuki wrote:
This is a terrible, TERRIBLE idea. I say this as a student expecting to carry hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt when I graduate.
This will be a HUGE (HUUUUUUUUUUGE) blow to the income banks make from student loans. This fucks with the economy and would likely result in either HUGE increases in interest rates across all loans to make up for the loss, or the lack of offering student loans in the first place (which in turn would cause the government to force them to offer them which would in turn force the first issue, which would in turn cause the government to mandate lower interest rates which would in turn drive banks out of business which would in turn ruin jobs and make it so NO ONE can afford to go to college which would in turn make private universities go bankrupt which would in turn force government subsidy of public university... you know what, you get the picture, go read Atlas Shrugged if you want the whole story.)
Bad plan. ooooorrrr the government elects NOT to force the institutions to offer student loans. Then student loan availability becomes greatly diminished. Colleges experience dramatically falling enrollment and are forced to downsize their outrageous budgets and rectify their bureaucratic habits. People who aren't a good fit for college stop attending from being unable to attain funding, and the total student loan debt in America has become much smaller, back under control, and no longer growing at outrageous and unsustainable rates. Just food for thought. this also leads to a largely uneducated working class..... we have that before and it didnt turn out to well for the working class just food for thought
Is that so bad though? Many working class people go and get 4 years of university education then go straight back to working class jobs. (I consider myself in this group)
Is the education for its own sake absent improved job prospects really worth the opportunity costs and money? From personal experience I would argue no, but I guess philosophically I can see the flip side.
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From a selfless stand point I'll say this isn't the best idea, I simply see too many people everyday that should not be in college at all, but have rich parents that force them there just to sit and be an "english major" or something so they can talk about their awesome college student at their Sunday outings. On the other hand, I can look at it from the selfish fact that I'm graduating in half a month with a bio degree and wouldn't mind some debt taken away :p
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On April 18 2012 12:20 politik wrote:
Terrible idea. America will have ten million philosophers and sociologists and no one to do actual jobs that contribute to society.
And no. If no one will even pay you to use the skills you've learned, those skills are not useful to society.
Obviously contribution to society is directly proportional to amount earned. I guess sports stars offer far more to society than police officers, firefighters, and teachers (combined).
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I want smaller government, but man this is enticing. I've paid for school in cash until this semester. Due to an increase in tuition I needed to take a loan of 2.5k to cover spring and summer 
If they lowered tuition back to what I paid in 2007-2009 then I'd be able to afford it without loans.
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EPT
