EPTStudent Loan Forgiveness Act - Page 12
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fish ()(
United States72 Posts
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Wegandi
United States2455 Posts
On April 18 2012 09:30 Whitewing wrote: Our goal as a society should be to make education as accessible as possible for everyone, not harder. There has to be a better way to do it than making loans harder to obtain -_-. Yes, it's called decreasing the price of the service. In order to do that you have to get rid of Government loans, and guaranteed loans. You also need to make student debt (loans) servicable through bankruptcy like every other loan. Ending subsidies to Universities would help also, as well as loosening / ending the stringent licensure and permit regime. You want to make services accessible? Reduce the prices (Hint: that doesn't mean price/wage controls FYI). | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On April 18 2012 09:25 Candadar wrote: Ah, here's a nice little infograph on the state of current student loans. Warning, it's pretty large. + Show Spoiler + I feel really stupid for coming to university when lectures are online for free. Though I wouldn't get that piece of paper and I'd probably never self study :p | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On April 18 2012 13:18 Wegandi wrote: Yes, it's called decreasing the price of the service. In order to do that you have to get rid of Government loans, and guaranteed loans. You also need to make student debt (loans) servicable through bankruptcy like every other loan. Ending subsidies to Universities would help also, as well as loosening / ending the stringent licensure and permit regime. You want to make services accessible? Reduce the prices (Hint: that doesn't mean price/wage controls FYI). your post just made me think of something. if the government forgives all of the student loans without penalty then its kind of committing a fraud on the financial industry unless they are required to disclose it. these individuals should have pretty shitty credit scores if they are basically defaulting on such a huge loan. the financial industry needs to know about it. if i were a bank, i wouldnt want to give a loan to someone who couldnt pay back their student loans. | ||
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DystopiaX
United States16236 Posts
On April 18 2012 13:14 fish ()( wrote: Don't like it those in the past have found a way to pay for college, why can't we? Tuition fees were also much less (even adjusted for inflation) in the past. Not exactly the same situation. | ||
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babylon
8765 Posts
On April 18 2012 13:14 fish ()( wrote: Don't like it those in the past have found a way to pay for college, why can't we? a.) Tuition is much more expensive these days. In the last year alone, my school increased cost of attendance by $7k, no joke. It increased the year before that, but the exact figure escapes me. (Luckily, it more than compensated by giving me a bigger fin. aid package even though my parents' income also went up. In my home state also, a state-wide, four-year scholarship got cut significantly when they raised the minimum GPA required for scholarship renewal.) b.) We're in an economic downturn. USA, 2012. | ||
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lOvOlUNiMEDiA
United States643 Posts
On April 18 2012 13:18 Wegandi wrote: Yes, it's called decreasing the price of the service. In order to do that you have to get rid of Government loans, and guaranteed loans. You also need to make student debt (loans) servicable through bankruptcy like every other loan. Ending subsidies to Universities would help also, as well as loosening / ending the stringent licensure and permit regime. You want to make services accessible? Reduce the prices (Hint: that doesn't mean price/wage controls FYI). Yes! Agreed! | ||
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Leporello
United States2845 Posts
On April 18 2012 13:25 DystopiaX wrote: Tuition fees were also much less (even adjusted for inflation) in the past. Not exactly the same situation. Not only that, but culture treated college differently. It was accepted that a large number of people would find applicable skills outside of college, and still gain decent employment. Over the past few decades, college has become a defacto "requirement" for anyone to make an even semi-livable wage. We've turned colleges into our entire society's litmus test. As a result, tuition has obviously been raised, and more people are going through college than the job market has demand for... Lot of reasons to support bills like the one proposed in the OP. The people against this bill seem to argue semantically or very rhetorically. "Oh, my parents didn't need this." None of that matters --- the ONLY thing that should matter is if the bill would have a positive effect on society TODAY. Look at it with pragmatism, not ideology. | ||
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kuzyk
United States19 Posts
the 1st is the classic college experience living at a private school for 4 years, tuition + room and board 36,320 per year, so a total of $145280 the other option is 2 years of community college and living at home tuition and living at home 2,900 per year, so $5800 final 2 years at public university, and assume you need to stay on campus because of distance tuition + room and board 17,600 per year, $35200 final total $41000 why wouldn't you choose option 2? you saved yourself 100k. | ||
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polysciguy
United States488 Posts
On April 18 2012 13:14 fish ()( wrote: Don't like it those in the past have found a way to pay for college, why can't we? 1 it was cheaper then 2 it wasn't required in order to get a job that gave you a living wage back then. | ||
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TheAngryZergling
United States387 Posts
On April 18 2012 13:38 polysciguy wrote: 1 it was cheaper then 2 it wasn't required in order to get a job that gave you a living wage back then. Your second point is a terrible myth. | ||
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TheAngryZergling
United States387 Posts
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
The purpose of this anecdote is not to prove that anyone going to a 4 year institution is an idiot, it is simply to say that it is not for everyone. When I was in High School, all of my teachers and friends talked about Community Colleges as the place for people who failed their way through high school. What I actually see is more driven people, who are more likely to get a good job than the people who party their way to a Pottery degree at some 4 year university. Hell, I have a couple of family friends who work in the recycling industry, and they both say that someone who knows their shit is infinitely more likely to get a job with them than someone who has a degree. From what I hear, programming is even more severe with that trend. In short, there are alternatives to University, even for those who want an "Academic" career. If you go to a 4-year University, you should know that you will have to get a fairly good job to pay for the first two years that could be accomplished at community college for 1/5 the price. | ||
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Wegandi
United States2455 Posts
On April 18 2012 13:46 TheAngryZergling wrote: please no no no no. college are becoming a joke. This only helps those too incompetent or lazy to not be able to pay off their loans. Not everyone HAS to go spend 4-5 years providing little to no contribution to society during the prime of their lives. Damn near anyone who actually spends that time learning will no doubt be able to pay off the loans they accrue. Your second point is a terrible myth. Actually he is right. Unless you consider that 90% of the US in 1960 were below the poverty line, which I would love to see your try and prove that proposition. http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/p20-550.pdf Check the graph on the second page. You didn't even need a HS diploma to be able to make a living in those days because the licensing and permit regime as well as the Corporate State wasn't as prevalent. You could learn a skill and make a decent wage without having to have a piece of paper that cost you 10 years wages. | ||
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TheAngryZergling
United States387 Posts
On April 18 2012 13:53 Wegandi wrote: Actually he is right. Unless you consider that 90% of the US in 1960 were below the poverty line, which I would love to see your try and prove that proposition. http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/p20-550.pdf Check the graph on the second page. You didn't even need a HS diploma to be able to make a living in those days because the licensing and permit regime as well as the Corporate State wasn't as prevalent. You could learn a skill and make a decent wage without having to have a piece of paper that cost you 10 years wages. There is a world of difference between being helpful and being required. | ||
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Battleaxe
United States843 Posts
On April 18 2012 13:37 kuzyk wrote: the decisions some people make to take out loans are just amazing. compare these 2 choices. the 1st is the classic college experience living at a private school for 4 years, tuition + room and board 36,320 per year, so a total of $145280 the other option is 2 years of community college and living at home tuition and living at home 2,900 per year, so $5800 final 2 years at public university, and assume you need to stay on campus because of distance tuition + room and board 17,600 per year, $35200 final total $41000 why wouldn't you choose option 2? you saved yourself 100k. Are you aware of anyone actually doing option 2 successfully? Also, your example is comparing a private university to a public university, your argument holds even less water. Why not adjust your numbers to use the same school in 2 vs 4 years? the 1st is the classic college experience living at a private school for 4 years, tuition + room and board 36,320 per year, so a total of $145280 the other option is 2 years of community college and living at home tuition and living at home 2,900 per year, so $5800 final 2 years at private university, and assume you need to stay on campus because of distance tuition + room and board 36,320 per year, $72640 final total $78440 difference of: $66840, not 100k Going back to my above point, many students that transfer from community college don't get credit for most of the classes they take during that time to actually count toward anything, especially if you're undeclared in community college. This is going to incur even most cost for having to make up the credit. I would love it if I could just give up my responsibilities and get a free education that someone had to pay for under the current system, but the fact is someone paid for it and I can't just back out of that commitment. As for welcome to America 2012, I found a job in one month, in my area, that was temp to hire, and ended up being hired. If that didn't work out, I had a multitude of other listings I found just by using monster.com and careerbuilder.com ffs. Now I know geography comes into play but as I mentioned, I was able to find many opportunities within a 20 mile radius. | ||
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biology]major
United States2253 Posts
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TheAngryZergling
United States387 Posts
On April 18 2012 14:04 Battleaxe wrote: Are you aware of anyone actually doing option 2 successfully? Also, your example is comparing a private university to a public university, your argument holds even less water. Why not adjust your numbers to use the same school in 2 vs 4 years? Yes. My younger brother went to a local community college, got a low end engineering job right away out of an internship started during his final semester. Guess what, after he was a proven commodity to his company they immediately sent him back to get more education on their dime because he had proved his value. EZ PZ. | ||
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biology]major
United States2253 Posts
On April 18 2012 14:10 TheAngryZergling wrote: Yes. My younger brother went to a local community college, got a low end engineering job right away out of an internship started during his final semester. Guess what, after he was a proven commodity to his company they immediately sent him back to get more education on their dime because he had proved his value. EZ PZ. community college is almost never a bad choice, if you get good grades and transfer and maintain a solid gpa, it really doesnt matter if you went for a full 4 years to a uni. | ||
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Warlock40
601 Posts
On April 18 2012 09:20 sc2superfan101 wrote: i dont like it. no one forgave my parents student loans that they spent years working off, so why does anyone else deserve it? balderdash. Assuming your parents had public education, they probably paid 1/10 of what students pay today. | ||
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