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State / Public Universities are vastly overrated. They don't provide a better education generally than Community Colleges. When you have classes regularly 30-40+ folks in a large lecture session, you have very little chance to interact with your teacher and everything is generalized / non-individualized. At least in most CC's I have seen student loads are far less and its more personalized. It also helps to choose a CC that has a good program for your major. For instance my Mother received her RN degree going to one of the best RN programs in the State which was @ a CC. She makes just as much as someone who spent 10-15x more for the same education. When you go to State / Public Universities you pay a lot for advertising / sports programs / lots of other superfluous activities that have nothing to do with an education in the first place.
If you are fine paying for those things, so be it, but don't act like a State Universitiy education is that much superior or superior at all to CC education.
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Government backed student loans are the problem with education. Schools sit on their asses and raise prices every year and nobody cares because everyone gets a loan for the money. When you buy a school review book the cost isn't even a listed factor in the comparison. It wasn't that long ago people could work for 2 months in the summer and pay for school with no debt. Now people graduate with a sociology degree, have no hope of getting a job, and have a 200k mortgage and no house. Is the quality of education better today to justify that cost? I would argue that my dad's graduating high school class would test better then college grads today. How about technology and economies of scale? The price of education should be going down......... it isn't tho. Tuition hike after tuition hike, year after year. Politicians buy you off with stupid shit like student loans because they know the repercussions of their actions won't be realized until long after they have made a milli or 2 selling their influence and they are long gone and that we collectively are too stupid and greedy to say no to something that sounds free.
If the government stopped backing student loans, no bank would loan you money to take humanities and social sciences because you have no hope of ever paying the money back at the current price. Schools would be forced to actually educate people at a decent price because all of a sudden their clients would care about the costs and they would have no students. Instead of hiring teacher after teacher and paying them ridiculous amounts of money to do basically nothing so that they can have the best teacher to student ratio (that's what the review books rate schools on now btw) they would get lean, mean and efficient or go out of business.
Everything the government touches turns to shit. Education, health care, social security all disasters where the price goes up and the quality goes down. Contrast that to cell phones or plasma tvs or anything else the government doesn't have it's short term focused grubby little fingers in. The price goes down and the quality goes up.
Personally I regret the time I spent getting an english ba. Seriously I could just say I had one on my resume it wouldn't make a difference. I work in finance and I taught myself from books. If you aren't going to become an engineer or a doctor or a lawyer.... don't go it's not worth 200k in debt. Just start working and building your skill set because trust me that soc degree is worthless.
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On April 18 2012 14:49 Panzamelano wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 14:31 S_SienZ wrote:On April 18 2012 14:23 Panzamelano wrote:
okay so i have a big issue understanding how this works.
So from what i get Community college and Public universities apparently are worthless in the USA.
Now my question is... are they really that bad? and im not asking if they are of the same quality of the biggest private universities or something but... is it really worth it to pay those extra 100k dollars when that extra quality doesnt really end up being a big deal because lets face it... the people that are smart and want to thriump will do it witouth the need of a big and fancy private university but my question is about the average student... who spends most of the time on the campus on the internet/partying/doing everything but studying, is it worth it for them? or are community college´s and public universities really that bad.
(just to give some insight here in colombia the best universities are the public universities and only those who REALLY want to study actually end up finishing a carrer in those so it ends up being a thing of Smart+wanting to triumph = really really cheap higher education , and spoiled little brat = a quite expensive carreer on a private university). People who intend to do all that should really stay away from student loans and colleges in general if they can't afford it. Don't party away moolah when it isn't yours. Ofcourse they should stay away from student loans and colleges in general... but they dont and sadly its only the minority of those who go to a university that actually spend their time studying and working towards a good future whit a stable job because lets face it... most people dont like studying so they give the bare minimum to get trough because they expect that the degree magically will get them from a lazy student who barely passes his classes to a freaking millionare earning a ton of cash as soon as they finish the university.
Then it's their problem isn't it? I don't see why the law should be the solution for people's stupidity.
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On April 18 2012 14:50 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 14:38 slytown wrote:
Signed. Other smart countries already have free public higher-education. I am one of those recent grads who is sitting on a good degree with nowhere to go. Every place I apply that I'm qualified for there are 200 other applicants. Underemployment for 21-29 year olds is still in the low twenty percents. Either everyone needs to be pushed to seek higher education by public funding or we have to completely change how employers hire/train. The better solution would be both solutions; This petition could be the step in one of those directions. Where did you go to college, what was your degree, and what was your GPA? As long as you performed decently and went to a good school there's no reason you shouldn't have a job, unless you did something like be an English or History major. Every single one of my friends that got above a 3.3 GPA, had internships while in college, and actively sought out jobs while still an undergrad found good jobs, at least paying ~40k. I don't have a single friend (who I at least talk to regularly) that hasn't been able to find a job. Every place you apply there's over 200 other applicants, but if your credentials are better than theirs because you tried harder in college, you'll get the job. The people suffering now are those with sub 3.3 GPAs that didn't study hard enough or didn't actively job search during their senior year. Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 14:49 Panzamelano wrote:On April 18 2012 14:31 S_SienZ wrote:On April 18 2012 14:23 Panzamelano wrote:
okay so i have a big issue understanding how this works.
So from what i get Community college and Public universities apparently are worthless in the USA.
Now my question is... are they really that bad? and im not asking if they are of the same quality of the biggest private universities or something but... is it really worth it to pay those extra 100k dollars when that extra quality doesnt really end up being a big deal because lets face it... the people that are smart and want to thriump will do it witouth the need of a big and fancy private university but my question is about the average student... who spends most of the time on the campus on the internet/partying/doing everything but studying, is it worth it for them? or are community college´s and public universities really that bad.
(just to give some insight here in colombia the best universities are the public universities and only those who REALLY want to study actually end up finishing a carrer in those so it ends up being a thing of Smart+wanting to triumph = really really cheap higher education , and spoiled little brat = a quite expensive carreer on a private university). People who intend to do all that should really stay away from student loans and colleges in general if they can't afford it. Don't party away moolah when it isn't yours. Ofcourse they should stay away from student loans and colleges in general... but they dont and sadly its only the minority of those who go to a university that actually spend their time studying and working towards a good future whit a stable job because lets face it... most people dont like studying so they give the bare minimum to get trough because they expect that the degree magically will get them from a lazy student who barely passes his classes to a freaking millionare earning a ton of cash as soon as they finish the university. On April 18 2012 14:30 TheAngryZergling wrote:
No, they're not that bad, where bad-ness is evaluated in terms of ability to allow you to be considered for a job that provides a financially comfortable life. While it doesn't hold true for every field obviously any public college can put you in a position to earn $100K salary within 10 years of being in the field.
Going to a community colleges probably increases the time to 100K/yr by 5 years and likely necessitates a return trip to a 4 yr college to get a BS (on your dime or another's). okay so going to a community college is the hard and slow way thats fine. but if public universities are fine and (according to the numbers that Kuzyk gave) are so cheap in comparission... why is everyone getting into these MASSIVE 100k+ debts?. is it sheer lack of knowledge?, Peer pressure? , or what is it?. People that end up with 100k+ in debt are fucking retarded.
or went to a top of the line school...... i know a lot of people with 100k debt that i will wager are a lot smarter then you my friend.... generalizing is bad
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On April 18 2012 14:53 Takkara wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 14:30 TheAngryZergling wrote:On April 18 2012 14:23 Panzamelano wrote:
okay so i have a big issue understanding how this works.
So from what i get Community college and Public universities apparently are worthless in the USA.
Now my question is... are they really that bad? and im not asking if they are of the same quality of the biggest private universities or something but... is it really worth it to pay those extra 100k dollars when that extra quality doesnt really end up being a big deal because lets face it... the people that are smart and want to thriump will do it witouth the need of a big and fancy private university but my question is about the average student... who spends most of the time on the campus on the internet/partying/doing everything but studying, is it worth it for them? or are community college´s and public universities really that bad.
(just to give some insight here in colombia the best universities are the public universities and only those who REALLY want to study actually end up finishing a carrer in those so it ends up being a thing of Smart+wanting to triumph = really really cheap higher education , and spoiled little brat = a quite expensive carreer on a private university). No, they're not that bad, where bad-ness is evaluated in terms of ability to allow you to be considered for a job that provides a financially comfortable life. While it doesn't hold true for every field obviously any public college can put you in a position to earn $100K salary within 10 years of being in the field. Going to a community colleges probably increases the time to 100K/yr by 5 years and likely necessitates a return trip to a 4 yr college to get a BS (on your dime or another's). Just so you know, if you HOUSEHOLD makes 100K/yr, it is in the top 15-20% of all households in the US. Not individual salary, household salary. It's not common for people that attend college to be making > 100K in any reasonable amount of time. As you said though, some fields it is more common. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States) According to this there are approximately 40 or so jobs in the US for which the average salary is over 100K. Most of them are professional (law/medicine) or are engineering based. (http://www.myplan.com/careers/top-ten/highest-paying.php)
I completely agree that it isn't common for a household to make $100K/yr because most people aren't very good employees (for a laundry list of possible reasons many of which I can't entirely place at the feet of those individuals). I just said that it can put you in the driver's seat to achieve such an income.
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On April 18 2012 14:43 Takkara wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 12:02 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 18 2012 11:54 Stratos_speAr wrote:On April 18 2012 11:50 Asol wrote:
Quick question here from a swede:
Don't you want the American people to become.. well more educated? In Sweden you're pretty much fucked without a degree, and well.. I'm sure some people don't enjoy studying or school for several reasons, but don't you want to get an education? I'd happily pay for everyone to have a education, that way I believe that we humans will evolve. The more people who have an education the smarter the population is. I'm not saying that you are stupid or anything if you don't have a degree (don't take it this way, not all). but isn't generally a educated population a better population? Surely they can make more informed and simply smarter decisions than a un-educated population? Unfortunately, a large portion of the American population is either 1) too selfish and self-centered to think this way or 2) too foolish to think long-term like this. i'll happily pay for your education if you pay for my education. oh, wait, this bill says that because i can afford to pay for my education that nobody is going to help me. so, the government denied me financial aid when i applied for school, i had to work through school and because i made good choices and kept my debt manageable, i now am being denied government aid again. You've spouted this sort of stuff off a lot in this thread and I just don't think you're thinking about what you're saying. Whether or not you have children, you pay for other people's kids to go to public school. Even if you do well in life, you pay for people on welfare. Even if you sacrifice to put food on your table, you still pay for people's food stamps. Even if you don't drive, you pay for the roads that others do drive on. The list goes on and on and on and on and on. Why must everything be quid pro quo? Why must the fact that other people have suffered under the weight of a truly broken system (college tuition) mean that future people must also suffer? Why should we stunt programs intended to help fix a problem simply because some people will not benefit from it? Now, you can disagree with this approach, and that's fine. Like some people have said, it seems as though it would have an explosive effect on college prices even worse than we have now because whatever schools charge, the government would pay off after 10 years, supposedly. There are serious holes and questions for this law. However, so many people are simply ignoring that this is a problem and that's truly puzzling to me. Look at this site for some basic figures (http://www.finaid.org/savings/tuition-inflation.phtml) Show nested quote +On average, tuition tends to increase about 8% per year. An 8% college inflation rate means that the cost of college doubles every nine years. For a baby born today, this means that college costs will be more than three times current rates when the child matriculates in college. It's just not sustainable. It's not really the poor that suffer, they get need based scholarships at nearly all colleges. It's not the rich that suffer, because they have the money to pay. It's a HUGE cross-section of the middle who are deemed "too well off" for grants and scholarships and instead shoulder immense burdens of debt. The greatest gift my parents ever gave me was to pay for my college to spare me from potentially 80-100k of student loan debt. I wonder if I'll be able to afford to do the same for my children. On average the price of tuition goes up 1.5x-2x the rate of inflation. Something has to be done to lower the rising costs of education. Perhaps this loan forgiveness bill is not the right approach, but people that are acting as though there is no problem are simply wrong. Likewise, people saying that we shouldn't do anything unless everyone (past and present) benefit from it are just being obstinate. So much of what we do and what we pay for and what we support are for those that need it most who may not be ourselves. Education makes people's lives better. It should be more affordable. Perhaps not mostly free like this bill would make it, but it should be more affordable than it is now.
oh, i am thinking about what im saying. paying off student debt is a huge mistake. people need to take more responsibility for their own decisions, and stop relying on the government to bail them out.
the fact that this recent bill has come out (in an election year along with the buffet rule) just reinforces my belief that the government is pandering for votes rather than trying to fix the economy. i am sick of these band-aid measures, and forcing the blame on the rich.
also, what the hell is up with these extremes? so, you got an education, the economy tanks and now you cant pay your student debt. well, how about the government defers payment until the economy improves? how about the government drops the interest rate, or drops the payment to an incredibly small amount? why the hell do they jump to "we'll just pay/write it off?" its pandering for votes; its not good economic policy.
finally, this is never going to pass; just like the buffet rule. so, congratulations lawmakers. you just wasted more taxpayer money and time on bullshit. if our country was run like a business, they would be fired.
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On April 18 2012 15:02 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 14:49 Panzamelano wrote:On April 18 2012 14:31 S_SienZ wrote:On April 18 2012 14:23 Panzamelano wrote:
okay so i have a big issue understanding how this works.
So from what i get Community college and Public universities apparently are worthless in the USA.
Now my question is... are they really that bad? and im not asking if they are of the same quality of the biggest private universities or something but... is it really worth it to pay those extra 100k dollars when that extra quality doesnt really end up being a big deal because lets face it... the people that are smart and want to thriump will do it witouth the need of a big and fancy private university but my question is about the average student... who spends most of the time on the campus on the internet/partying/doing everything but studying, is it worth it for them? or are community college´s and public universities really that bad.
(just to give some insight here in colombia the best universities are the public universities and only those who REALLY want to study actually end up finishing a carrer in those so it ends up being a thing of Smart+wanting to triumph = really really cheap higher education , and spoiled little brat = a quite expensive carreer on a private university). People who intend to do all that should really stay away from student loans and colleges in general if they can't afford it. Don't party away moolah when it isn't yours. Ofcourse they should stay away from student loans and colleges in general... but they dont and sadly its only the minority of those who go to a university that actually spend their time studying and working towards a good future whit a stable job because lets face it... most people dont like studying so they give the bare minimum to get trough because they expect that the degree magically will get them from a lazy student who barely passes his classes to a freaking millionare earning a ton of cash as soon as they finish the university. Then it's their problem isn't it? I don't see why the law should be the solution for people's stupidity.
yes it is their problem im not arguing about that.
what im triying to get at its why is it that those people keep getting into those debts, why is higher education so expensive in the USA , and why they dont choose the cheaper options.
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On April 18 2012 14:50 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 14:38 slytown wrote:
Signed. Other smart countries already have free public higher-education. I am one of those recent grads who is sitting on a good degree with nowhere to go. Every place I apply that I'm qualified for there are 200 other applicants. Underemployment for 21-29 year olds is still in the low twenty percents. Either everyone needs to be pushed to seek higher education by public funding or we have to completely change how employers hire/train. The better solution would be both solutions; This petition could be the step in one of those directions. Where did you go to college, what was your degree, and what was your GPA? As long as you performed decently and went to a good school there's no reason you shouldn't have a job, unless you did something like be an English or History major. Every single one of my friends that got above a 3.3 GPA, had internships while in college, and actively sought out jobs while still an undergrad found good jobs, at least paying ~40k. I don't have a single friend (who I at least talk to regularly) that hasn't been able to find a job. Every place you apply there's over 200 other applicants, but if your credentials are better than theirs because you tried harder in college, you'll get the job. The people suffering now are those with sub 3.3 GPAs that didn't study hard enough or didn't actively job search during their senior year. Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 14:49 Panzamelano wrote:On April 18 2012 14:31 S_SienZ wrote:On April 18 2012 14:23 Panzamelano wrote:
okay so i have a big issue understanding how this works.
So from what i get Community college and Public universities apparently are worthless in the USA.
Now my question is... are they really that bad? and im not asking if they are of the same quality of the biggest private universities or something but... is it really worth it to pay those extra 100k dollars when that extra quality doesnt really end up being a big deal because lets face it... the people that are smart and want to thriump will do it witouth the need of a big and fancy private university but my question is about the average student... who spends most of the time on the campus on the internet/partying/doing everything but studying, is it worth it for them? or are community college´s and public universities really that bad.
(just to give some insight here in colombia the best universities are the public universities and only those who REALLY want to study actually end up finishing a carrer in those so it ends up being a thing of Smart+wanting to triumph = really really cheap higher education , and spoiled little brat = a quite expensive carreer on a private university). People who intend to do all that should really stay away from student loans and colleges in general if they can't afford it. Don't party away moolah when it isn't yours. Ofcourse they should stay away from student loans and colleges in general... but they dont and sadly its only the minority of those who go to a university that actually spend their time studying and working towards a good future whit a stable job because lets face it... most people dont like studying so they give the bare minimum to get trough because they expect that the degree magically will get them from a lazy student who barely passes his classes to a freaking millionare earning a ton of cash as soon as they finish the university. On April 18 2012 14:30 TheAngryZergling wrote:
No, they're not that bad, where bad-ness is evaluated in terms of ability to allow you to be considered for a job that provides a financially comfortable life. While it doesn't hold true for every field obviously any public college can put you in a position to earn $100K salary within 10 years of being in the field.
Going to a community colleges probably increases the time to 100K/yr by 5 years and likely necessitates a return trip to a 4 yr college to get a BS (on your dime or another's). okay so going to a community college is the hard and slow way thats fine. but if public universities are fine and (according to the numbers that Kuzyk gave) are so cheap in comparission... why is everyone getting into these MASSIVE 100k+ debts?. is it sheer lack of knowledge?, Peer pressure? , or what is it?. People that end up with 100k+ in debt are fucking retarded.
i had about 100k in debt. its an investment and it has paid huge dividends for me.
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On April 18 2012 15:01 Wegandi wrote:
State / Public Universities are vastly overrated. They don't provide a better education generally than Community Colleges. When you have classes regularly 30-40+ folks in a large lecture session, you have very little chance to interact with your teacher and everything is generalized / non-individualized. At least in most CC's I have seen student loads are far less and its more personalized. It also helps to choose a CC that has a good program for your major. For instance my Mother received her RN degree going to one of the best RN programs in the State which was @ a CC. She makes just as much as someone who spent 10-15x more for the same education. When you go to State / Public Universities you pay a lot for advertising / sports programs / lots of other superfluous activities that have nothing to do with an education in the first place.
If you are fine paying for those things, so be it, but don't act like a State Universitiy education is that much superior or superior at all to CC education.
http://trends.collegeboard.org/education_pays/report_findings/indicator/2#f2
As of about 2008, on average, people with Bachelor's Degrees earn approximately 34% more in their lifetime than the holders of Associate's Degrees.
Of course there are exceptions. Some very notable rich people in this country were dropouts. Some people with high school educations have started very successful businesses. Some with high school degrees or associate's degrees have climbed up the economic ladder very successfully. They are exceptions and outliers and not the rule. There is not room for everyone to share that same experience.
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Nobody cares what your gpa was in school. Work experience is worth a a thousand times what a degree is (with certain exceptions). You just need to say you have one because every single person on earth does and they'll throw your resume away without reading it. I hire people. Trust me. I take a guy with work experience over a guy fresh out of school 10 out of 10 times.
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On April 18 2012 15:09 Takkara wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 15:01 Wegandi wrote:
State / Public Universities are vastly overrated. They don't provide a better education generally than Community Colleges. When you have classes regularly 30-40+ folks in a large lecture session, you have very little chance to interact with your teacher and everything is generalized / non-individualized. At least in most CC's I have seen student loads are far less and its more personalized. It also helps to choose a CC that has a good program for your major. For instance my Mother received her RN degree going to one of the best RN programs in the State which was @ a CC. She makes just as much as someone who spent 10-15x more for the same education. When you go to State / Public Universities you pay a lot for advertising / sports programs / lots of other superfluous activities that have nothing to do with an education in the first place.
If you are fine paying for those things, so be it, but don't act like a State Universitiy education is that much superior or superior at all to CC education. http://trends.collegeboard.org/education_pays/report_findings/indicator/2#f2As of about 2008, on average, people with Bachelor's Degrees earn approximately 34% more in their lifetime than the holders of Associate's Degrees. Of course there are exceptions. Some very notable rich people in this country were dropouts. Some people with high school educations have started very successful businesses. Some with high school degrees or associate's degrees have climbed up the economic ladder very successfully. They are exceptions and outliers and not the rule. There is not room for everyone to share that same experience.
What are you talking about. Most CC's offer Bachelor's Degrees.
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On April 18 2012 15:17 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 15:09 Takkara wrote:On April 18 2012 15:01 Wegandi wrote:
State / Public Universities are vastly overrated. They don't provide a better education generally than Community Colleges. When you have classes regularly 30-40+ folks in a large lecture session, you have very little chance to interact with your teacher and everything is generalized / non-individualized. At least in most CC's I have seen student loads are far less and its more personalized. It also helps to choose a CC that has a good program for your major. For instance my Mother received her RN degree going to one of the best RN programs in the State which was @ a CC. She makes just as much as someone who spent 10-15x more for the same education. When you go to State / Public Universities you pay a lot for advertising / sports programs / lots of other superfluous activities that have nothing to do with an education in the first place.
If you are fine paying for those things, so be it, but don't act like a State Universitiy education is that much superior or superior at all to CC education. http://trends.collegeboard.org/education_pays/report_findings/indicator/2#f2As of about 2008, on average, people with Bachelor's Degrees earn approximately 34% more in their lifetime than the holders of Associate's Degrees. Of course there are exceptions. Some very notable rich people in this country were dropouts. Some people with high school educations have started very successful businesses. Some with high school degrees or associate's degrees have climbed up the economic ladder very successfully. They are exceptions and outliers and not the rule. There is not room for everyone to share that same experience. What are you talking about. Most CC's offer Bachelor's Degrees.
in what state? in CA not a single CC offers a bachelors....
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On April 18 2012 15:18 Deathmanbob wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 15:17 Wegandi wrote:On April 18 2012 15:09 Takkara wrote:On April 18 2012 15:01 Wegandi wrote:
State / Public Universities are vastly overrated. They don't provide a better education generally than Community Colleges. When you have classes regularly 30-40+ folks in a large lecture session, you have very little chance to interact with your teacher and everything is generalized / non-individualized. At least in most CC's I have seen student loads are far less and its more personalized. It also helps to choose a CC that has a good program for your major. For instance my Mother received her RN degree going to one of the best RN programs in the State which was @ a CC. She makes just as much as someone who spent 10-15x more for the same education. When you go to State / Public Universities you pay a lot for advertising / sports programs / lots of other superfluous activities that have nothing to do with an education in the first place.
If you are fine paying for those things, so be it, but don't act like a State Universitiy education is that much superior or superior at all to CC education. http://trends.collegeboard.org/education_pays/report_findings/indicator/2#f2As of about 2008, on average, people with Bachelor's Degrees earn approximately 34% more in their lifetime than the holders of Associate's Degrees. Of course there are exceptions. Some very notable rich people in this country were dropouts. Some people with high school educations have started very successful businesses. Some with high school degrees or associate's degrees have climbed up the economic ladder very successfully. They are exceptions and outliers and not the rule. There is not room for everyone to share that same experience. What are you talking about. Most CC's offer Bachelor's Degrees. in what state? in CA not a single CC offers a bachelors....
You cannot get a BA from a CC.
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On April 18 2012 15:18 Deathmanbob wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 15:17 Wegandi wrote:On April 18 2012 15:09 Takkara wrote:On April 18 2012 15:01 Wegandi wrote:
State / Public Universities are vastly overrated. They don't provide a better education generally than Community Colleges. When you have classes regularly 30-40+ folks in a large lecture session, you have very little chance to interact with your teacher and everything is generalized / non-individualized. At least in most CC's I have seen student loads are far less and its more personalized. It also helps to choose a CC that has a good program for your major. For instance my Mother received her RN degree going to one of the best RN programs in the State which was @ a CC. She makes just as much as someone who spent 10-15x more for the same education. When you go to State / Public Universities you pay a lot for advertising / sports programs / lots of other superfluous activities that have nothing to do with an education in the first place.
If you are fine paying for those things, so be it, but don't act like a State Universitiy education is that much superior or superior at all to CC education. http://trends.collegeboard.org/education_pays/report_findings/indicator/2#f2As of about 2008, on average, people with Bachelor's Degrees earn approximately 34% more in their lifetime than the holders of Associate's Degrees. Of course there are exceptions. Some very notable rich people in this country were dropouts. Some people with high school educations have started very successful businesses. Some with high school degrees or associate's degrees have climbed up the economic ladder very successfully. They are exceptions and outliers and not the rule. There is not room for everyone to share that same experience. What are you talking about. Most CC's offer Bachelor's Degrees. in what state? in CA not a single CC offers a bachelors....
Florida.
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On April 18 2012 14:49 Panzamelano wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 14:31 S_SienZ wrote:On April 18 2012 14:23 Panzamelano wrote:
okay so i have a big issue understanding how this works.
So from what i get Community college and Public universities apparently are worthless in the USA.
Now my question is... are they really that bad? and im not asking if they are of the same quality of the biggest private universities or something but... is it really worth it to pay those extra 100k dollars when that extra quality doesnt really end up being a big deal because lets face it... the people that are smart and want to thriump will do it witouth the need of a big and fancy private university but my question is about the average student... who spends most of the time on the campus on the internet/partying/doing everything but studying, is it worth it for them? or are community college´s and public universities really that bad.
(just to give some insight here in colombia the best universities are the public universities and only those who REALLY want to study actually end up finishing a carrer in those so it ends up being a thing of Smart+wanting to triumph = really really cheap higher education , and spoiled little brat = a quite expensive carreer on a private university). People who intend to do all that should really stay away from student loans and colleges in general if they can't afford it. Don't party away moolah when it isn't yours. Ofcourse they should stay away from student loans and colleges in general... but they dont and sadly its only the minority of those who go to a university that actually spend their time studying and working towards a good future whit a stable job because lets face it... most people dont like studying so they give the bare minimum to get trough because they expect that the degree magically will get them from a lazy student who barely passes his classes to a freaking millionare earning a ton of cash as soon as they finish the university. Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 14:30 TheAngryZergling wrote:
No, they're not that bad, where bad-ness is evaluated in terms of ability to allow you to be considered for a job that provides a financially comfortable life. While it doesn't hold true for every field obviously any public college can put you in a position to earn $100K salary within 10 years of being in the field.
Going to a community colleges probably increases the time to 100K/yr by 5 years and likely necessitates a return trip to a 4 yr college to get a BS (on your dime or another's). okay so going to a community college is the hard and slow way thats fine. but if public universities are fine and (according to the numbers that Kuzyk gave) are so cheap in comparission... why is everyone getting into these MASSIVE 100k+ debts?. is it sheer lack of knowledge?, Peer pressure? , or what is it?.
You might be getting community colleges confused with public universities. The US has many public universities that are leaders in the world of "insert tons of research stuff" and provide amazing education. Public universities are extremely diverse in terms of how much they cost and the quality of education one can get at them.
For example I go to a public university that ranks much higher than the majority of private universities in the US (of course rankings are mostly bullshit). In my state I could have saved thousands of dollars by going to the other public universities, but they are all less well known, less prestigious, and have less resources do to less funding. I could have also saved money by going to some of the private universities around here.
So while community colleges are extremely cheap in comparism to the other forms of higher education, public universities are very diverse, some being cheaper than others. You might end up at one where the overall cost is like 5-10k a year, or you could end up at one like mine which costs around 30k a year. So that is how people go into massive debt attending public universities.
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On April 18 2012 09:20 sc2superfan101 wrote:
i dont like it. no one forgave my parents student loans that they spent years working off, so why does anyone else deserve it? balderdash.
Buuhuu I didn't get a cookie, noone else should get a cookie. What is this, kindergarden? Really, this is a GREAT idea, would be great in all countries, it really gives some incentive to do something for your country, especially the teaching/firefighting thing.
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The student loan dept is a huge problem BUT.... there is a large portion of people in that group that accrued dept because of stupidity. Many of whom borrowed to get very weak degrees. If a bill like this was to happen, I would like it to specify which degrees will have this bill applied to like engineering. I still don't know if that is even good enough for me to be for it. How the fuck are they forgiving these loans? Are they bailing them out with money from the Fed or just acting like the money was never borrowed if they abide by the bill. Just fucking cut our spending and free up the market. We do not need a big government taking care of us, let the people solve our problems. The government is just fucking us up the arse more and more every year. It is obvious the government fails every time they try to bail people out or spend money to take care of people. Social security? Obama care anybody??? Anyways.... I do not think this is a good idea right now.
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On April 18 2012 15:22 Smat wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 14:49 Panzamelano wrote:On April 18 2012 14:31 S_SienZ wrote:On April 18 2012 14:23 Panzamelano wrote:
okay so i have a big issue understanding how this works.
So from what i get Community college and Public universities apparently are worthless in the USA.
Now my question is... are they really that bad? and im not asking if they are of the same quality of the biggest private universities or something but... is it really worth it to pay those extra 100k dollars when that extra quality doesnt really end up being a big deal because lets face it... the people that are smart and want to thriump will do it witouth the need of a big and fancy private university but my question is about the average student... who spends most of the time on the campus on the internet/partying/doing everything but studying, is it worth it for them? or are community college´s and public universities really that bad.
(just to give some insight here in colombia the best universities are the public universities and only those who REALLY want to study actually end up finishing a carrer in those so it ends up being a thing of Smart+wanting to triumph = really really cheap higher education , and spoiled little brat = a quite expensive carreer on a private university). People who intend to do all that should really stay away from student loans and colleges in general if they can't afford it. Don't party away moolah when it isn't yours. Ofcourse they should stay away from student loans and colleges in general... but they dont and sadly its only the minority of those who go to a university that actually spend their time studying and working towards a good future whit a stable job because lets face it... most people dont like studying so they give the bare minimum to get trough because they expect that the degree magically will get them from a lazy student who barely passes his classes to a freaking millionare earning a ton of cash as soon as they finish the university. On April 18 2012 14:30 TheAngryZergling wrote:
No, they're not that bad, where bad-ness is evaluated in terms of ability to allow you to be considered for a job that provides a financially comfortable life. While it doesn't hold true for every field obviously any public college can put you in a position to earn $100K salary within 10 years of being in the field.
Going to a community colleges probably increases the time to 100K/yr by 5 years and likely necessitates a return trip to a 4 yr college to get a BS (on your dime or another's). okay so going to a community college is the hard and slow way thats fine. but if public universities are fine and (according to the numbers that Kuzyk gave) are so cheap in comparission... why is everyone getting into these MASSIVE 100k+ debts?. is it sheer lack of knowledge?, Peer pressure? , or what is it?. You might be getting community colleges confused with public universities. The US has many public universities that are leaders in the world of "insert tons of research stuff" and provide amazing education. Public universities are extremely diverse in terms of how much they cost and the quality of education one can get at them. For example I go to a public university that ranks much higher than the majority of private universities in the US (of course rankings are mostly bullshit). In my state I could have saved thousands of dollars by going to the other public universities, but they are all less well known, less prestigious, and have less resources do to less funding. I could have also saved money by going to some of the private universities around here. So while community colleges are extremely cheap in comparism to the other forms of higher education, public universities are very diverse, some being cheaper than others. You might end up at one where the overall cost is like 5-10k a year, or you could end up at one like mine which costs around 30k a year. So that is how people go into massive debt attending public universities.
Due*
Lot of good that prestigious college is doing you...
Sorry, couldn't help myself, just teasing.
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On April 18 2012 15:22 Smat wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 14:49 Panzamelano wrote:On April 18 2012 14:31 S_SienZ wrote:On April 18 2012 14:23 Panzamelano wrote:
okay so i have a big issue understanding how this works.
So from what i get Community college and Public universities apparently are worthless in the USA.
Now my question is... are they really that bad? and im not asking if they are of the same quality of the biggest private universities or something but... is it really worth it to pay those extra 100k dollars when that extra quality doesnt really end up being a big deal because lets face it... the people that are smart and want to thriump will do it witouth the need of a big and fancy private university but my question is about the average student... who spends most of the time on the campus on the internet/partying/doing everything but studying, is it worth it for them? or are community college´s and public universities really that bad.
(just to give some insight here in colombia the best universities are the public universities and only those who REALLY want to study actually end up finishing a carrer in those so it ends up being a thing of Smart+wanting to triumph = really really cheap higher education , and spoiled little brat = a quite expensive carreer on a private university). People who intend to do all that should really stay away from student loans and colleges in general if they can't afford it. Don't party away moolah when it isn't yours. Ofcourse they should stay away from student loans and colleges in general... but they dont and sadly its only the minority of those who go to a university that actually spend their time studying and working towards a good future whit a stable job because lets face it... most people dont like studying so they give the bare minimum to get trough because they expect that the degree magically will get them from a lazy student who barely passes his classes to a freaking millionare earning a ton of cash as soon as they finish the university. On April 18 2012 14:30 TheAngryZergling wrote:
No, they're not that bad, where bad-ness is evaluated in terms of ability to allow you to be considered for a job that provides a financially comfortable life. While it doesn't hold true for every field obviously any public college can put you in a position to earn $100K salary within 10 years of being in the field.
Going to a community colleges probably increases the time to 100K/yr by 5 years and likely necessitates a return trip to a 4 yr college to get a BS (on your dime or another's). okay so going to a community college is the hard and slow way thats fine. but if public universities are fine and (according to the numbers that Kuzyk gave) are so cheap in comparission... why is everyone getting into these MASSIVE 100k+ debts?. is it sheer lack of knowledge?, Peer pressure? , or what is it?. You might be getting community colleges confused with public universities. The US has many public universities that are leaders in the world of "insert tons of research stuff" and provide amazing education. Public universities are extremely diverse in terms of how much they cost and the quality of education one can get at them. For example I go to a public university that ranks much higher than the majority of private universities in the US (of course rankings are mostly bullshit). In my state I could have saved thousands of dollars by going to the other public universities, but they are all less well known, less prestigious, and have less resources do to less funding. I could have also saved money by going to some of the private universities around here. So while community colleges are extremely cheap in comparism to the other forms of higher education, public universities are very diverse, some being cheaper than others. You might end up at one where the overall cost is like 5-10k a year, or you could end up at one like mine which costs around 30k a year. So that is how people go into massive debt attending public universities.
Thats quite interesting...
i thought they had a system like the one used here wich forces a cap on the price of public universities under the simple argument of "public universities are there to offer education everyone can afford not just those in the high end of the economic ladder" and to top it off the price is lower depending on your family´s income so everyone can afford it.
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On April 18 2012 15:30 politik wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 15:22 Smat wrote:On April 18 2012 14:49 Panzamelano wrote:On April 18 2012 14:31 S_SienZ wrote:On April 18 2012 14:23 Panzamelano wrote:
okay so i have a big issue understanding how this works.
So from what i get Community college and Public universities apparently are worthless in the USA.
Now my question is... are they really that bad? and im not asking if they are of the same quality of the biggest private universities or something but... is it really worth it to pay those extra 100k dollars when that extra quality doesnt really end up being a big deal because lets face it... the people that are smart and want to thriump will do it witouth the need of a big and fancy private university but my question is about the average student... who spends most of the time on the campus on the internet/partying/doing everything but studying, is it worth it for them? or are community college´s and public universities really that bad.
(just to give some insight here in colombia the best universities are the public universities and only those who REALLY want to study actually end up finishing a carrer in those so it ends up being a thing of Smart+wanting to triumph = really really cheap higher education , and spoiled little brat = a quite expensive carreer on a private university). People who intend to do all that should really stay away from student loans and colleges in general if they can't afford it. Don't party away moolah when it isn't yours. Ofcourse they should stay away from student loans and colleges in general... but they dont and sadly its only the minority of those who go to a university that actually spend their time studying and working towards a good future whit a stable job because lets face it... most people dont like studying so they give the bare minimum to get trough because they expect that the degree magically will get them from a lazy student who barely passes his classes to a freaking millionare earning a ton of cash as soon as they finish the university. On April 18 2012 14:30 TheAngryZergling wrote:
No, they're not that bad, where bad-ness is evaluated in terms of ability to allow you to be considered for a job that provides a financially comfortable life. While it doesn't hold true for every field obviously any public college can put you in a position to earn $100K salary within 10 years of being in the field.
Going to a community colleges probably increases the time to 100K/yr by 5 years and likely necessitates a return trip to a 4 yr college to get a BS (on your dime or another's). okay so going to a community college is the hard and slow way thats fine. but if public universities are fine and (according to the numbers that Kuzyk gave) are so cheap in comparission... why is everyone getting into these MASSIVE 100k+ debts?. is it sheer lack of knowledge?, Peer pressure? , or what is it?. You might be getting community colleges confused with public universities. The US has many public universities that are leaders in the world of "insert tons of research stuff" and provide amazing education. Public universities are extremely diverse in terms of how much they cost and the quality of education one can get at them. For example I go to a public university that ranks much higher than the majority of private universities in the US (of course rankings are mostly bullshit). In my state I could have saved thousands of dollars by going to the other public universities, but they are all less well known, less prestigious, and have less resources do to less funding. I could have also saved money by going to some of the private universities around here. So while community colleges are extremely cheap in comparism to the other forms of higher education, public universities are very diverse, some being cheaper than others. You might end up at one where the overall cost is like 5-10k a year, or you could end up at one like mine which costs around 30k a year. So that is how people go into massive debt attending public universities. Due* Lot of good that prestigious college is doing you... Sorry, couldn't help myself, just teasing.
Well by prestigious i meant like nationally known. I'm honestly not trying to be elitist, but you have better name recognition going to a flagship than a directional college. Just like how someone who went to harvard would get more looks from employers than I would lol.
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EPT
