EPTStudent Loan Forgiveness Act - Page 15
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Daimai
Sweden762 Posts
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politik
409 Posts
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nennx
United States310 Posts
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TheGeneralTheoryOf
235 Posts
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TheGeneralTheoryOf
235 Posts
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Silidons
United States2813 Posts
maybe i'm lucky that both my parents have no degree and make good money...i'm following that same route my father took (real estate) and i dropped out of college because i only liked mathematics and did not want a job in mathematics. was in the class before differential, and math was pretty much the only class i had to spend >1hr on per week. all the history, biology, etc classes were so damn easy and many people would get C's and B's on them while they were 100% memorization...anyone who gets a degree in something simple doesn't deserve to make good money in my opinion. On April 18 2012 15:38 TheGeneralTheoryOf wrote: Universities are already quasi public institutions. Nationalizing anything is always a bad idea. lol well then get out of america beacuse there are many many things that are nationalized. like for example when right wingers love to call obama a socialist, when in fact america has had so many socialist institutions for years it's uncanny | ||
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Smat
United States301 Posts
On April 18 2012 15:30 Panzamelano wrote: Thats quite interesting... i thought they had a system like the one used here wich forces a cap on the price of public universities under the simple argument of "public universities are there to offer education everyone can afford not just those in the high end of the economic ladder" and to top it off the price is lower depending on your family´s income so everyone can afford it. Hahaha, ya not really. It depends where you live of course. My state is in rediculous debt so the universities don't get very good support from the government. But ya the best public universities tend to be only slightly cheaper than private colleges. It also depends on whether or not you are attending a school in the state you live in. Most universities have instate tuition which is significantly cheaper than out of state tuition. Private colleges, however, are more keen on giving out financial aid that isn't just pure loans. Attending my university from out of state (or out of country) would be about as expensive as the most expensive private universities. | ||
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TheGeneralTheoryOf
235 Posts
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politik
409 Posts
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TheAngryZergling
United States387 Posts
On April 18 2012 15:37 politik wrote: But seriously. In today's age of "everyone has to go to college", the ONLY way to accomplish this is by nationalizing the whole system. This stops the rampant profiteering, and gives an additional incentive to attent college. Plus, since almost everyone goes to college anyway, almost no one can complain that their tax money is being wasted on others. Too bad this isn't a viable option. That would sure be swell ... assuming those extra bodies you are keeping out of the workforce return to make correspondingly better contributions to society. On April 18 2012 15:46 politik wrote: But without nationalizing you get an exponential increase in tuition as enrollment and thus demand rises. Then the only way to solve the problem is by having less people go to university in the first place which I don't think is a compromise that should be made. At this rate it will become a point where only the very rich can afford university, then it just becomes a cycle of the rich become richer. what are your reasons for thinking that isn't acceptable? | ||
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politik
409 Posts
Edit: Ideally the only difference would be that instead of leaving college with cripping debt, the debt would be replaced with increased taxes throughout their lifetime. Of course, at least in America, the effects would be far from ideal. | ||
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TheGeneralTheoryOf
235 Posts
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On April 18 2012 14:53 Meta wrote: I have $120,000 in student loan debt, (a four year engineering degree from a public, state-funded university). About $30,000 is federal. And I didn't fuck around either, I graduated on time with a 3.47 GPA and recommendations from advisers to put on job applications. So last year I applied for about 75 entry level engineering jobs and internships, and NEVER heard ANYTHING from one of them. Since I needed to start payments on my loans so quickly after graduation, I decided to teach English in Korea because it's a guaranteed salary and SC is awesome. Right now I make about $20,000 per year to feed myself and my wife AND make payments on those loans. If my mom hadn't cosigned my loans, I would just change my name and stay in Korea for the rest of my life. Fuck the system. If the government does something about it, great. Because right now, college education in America is totally fucked, not worth it at all. That's what I'm telling all my younger cousins. Don't fucking do it in America. It's a waste. Community college is another story all together. If I wasn't so pressured by my family to get the best education possible regardless of results, and had decent knowledge of the job market four years in advance, I would have absolutely gone with community. The real problem is forcing 16-17 year olds to make a decision that has the equivalent repercussions of taking out a mortgage How is that possible? Despite the fact you're supposed to get internships both your sophmore/junior year, I know plenty of engineers that got a TON of jobs/offers with GPAs ranging between 2.9-3.3. I don't think any had a 3.47 GPA. I mean I would say you should follow up with the applications, but even if you didn't, as long as you went to shit like career fairs and talked to recruiters you should have gotten SOMETHING. Although still, taking $120,000 is so excessive I feel. Did you not have a job whatsoever during college? You should be able to make easily 10k per year to cut some costs (that's what I did). Especially work full time during the summer. But yeah, unfortunate you were pressured by your family, as for people that are going to go soley on student loans, CC is almost always the better option. Does your wife not make money as well to support the family..? =[. I recall thinking if I didn't get a job I'd to the teach English in Korea program as well though. You make about $20k per year, but cost of living is a lot lower in SK and also they pay for your rent... so it's kinda deceiving. | ||
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furymonkey
New Zealand1587 Posts
On April 18 2012 15:37 nennx wrote: Big part of the problem is that people expect you to have some kind of degree no matter what field you are going into. Its hard to get started in your career (a real one) without a degree. Sometimes its important to have a degree, other times its just a piece of paper that shows very little. a real career...? What define real? If you're hardworking, active, you can make as much money doing tradecraft than average if not more. I get the feeling that people view tertiary education as a fastlane to high paying jobs, which is false, since it only open you up for more choice. Since tertiary education is widely accessible thanks to student loan, most sees themself with a chance, when infact you still have to work hard to come out at the top, and by top it isn't mean just good grades, but be active doing all those shit people suggested. | ||
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TheAngryZergling
United States387 Posts
On April 18 2012 14:53 Meta wrote: I have $120,000 in student loan debt, (a four year engineering degree from a public, state-funded university). About $30,000 is federal. And I didn't fuck around either, I graduated on time with a 3.47 GPA and recommendations from advisers to put on job applications. So last year I applied for about 75 entry level engineering jobs and internships, and NEVER heard ANYTHING from one of them. Since I needed to start payments on my loans so quickly after graduation, I decided to teach English in Korea because it's a guaranteed salary and SC is awesome. 75 is not a lot. That is 1 a day for 2.5 months. Once you have you get used to the process of customizing your cover letters and looking up specifics of the company and position you are applying for that is a max of 4 hours work. That you didn't hear back from any while having an above average GPA indicates either your resume & cover letters didn't represent you as well as they should; a common problem. Thats why most (all?) universities have offices that help you craft such things (though you can always get helped by a doofus whose suggestions are inappropriate in which case seek help from others for the matter). Another factor could have been location. If you apply primarily to places around the university producing a bunch of engineers or around your hometown which simply may not have a ton of engineering jobs then thats also going to hurt your chances. On April 18 2012 14:53 Meta wrote: The real problem is forcing 16-17 year olds to make a decision that has the equivalent repercussions of taking out a mortgage I'd argue "the real problem" is that societal expectations for kids stays soooooo low for so long that they too often aren't able to shoulder the weight of such decisions and so don't even know how to go about making such choices. | ||
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TheGeneralTheoryOf
235 Posts
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NEOtheONE
United States2233 Posts
Education is grossly overcharged. It is utterly preposterous what we have to pay on average here in America. Expenses, Tuition Fee & Living Costs US Universities fall under two major categories: public (state supported), and private (independent) institutions. International students’ tuition expenses at state schools are based on nonresident costs, which are still usually less expensive than those of private universities. It’s important to note that the cost of a program in a US school does not necessarily affect its quality. A brief idea can be got from the following table: University Type Average Tuition Fees (annual in U.S. Dollars) Private Institutions (High Cost) $ 25,000 Private Institutions (Low Cost) $ 15,000 State Institutions (High Cost) $ 20,000 State Institutions (Low Cost) $ 10,000 The tuition fee is different for different universities and varies widely with courses. It can vary from as low as $ 5000 a year for state universities to as much as $ 30000 per annum for some private universities. For more specific details, please contact the universities. Living Expenses The approximate annual living expenses are about $10,000, which includes accommodation as well as other daily expenses. However, the expenses are different for different people depending on the lifestyles and this is just a rough idea. The main expenses can be split up as: Rent $ 400 per month (you can live alone with that amount in a place like Auburn or share an apartment with 6 people in NY) Groceries $ 100 per month Utilities $ 100 per month Phone $ 100 per month Sundry $ 200 per month So, about $1000 per month is a good estimation. Most people can survive with $700-$1000 a month. The key here is to share apartments/houses so that you save on the utilities, fixed charge portion of phone and to some extent on groceries. source: http://www.infozee.com/usa/expenses.htm For myself, I went to a private institution and lived there. So tuition +room +board was approximately $29,000 per year. I received a scholarship for $8500 per year and a grant of $4500 per year. The other $16,000 per year came in the form of loans split between my parents and myself. Tack on 3 years of graduate school for my Masters degree in Counseling and I am looking at $60,000 that I personally owe (before interest). I am greatly in favor of the idea of not having to pay back the full $60,000 plus interest over a 10-15 year period (which makes the $60,000 turn into more like $90,000-100,000). In addition to that debt, I have to obtain and maintain my license to practice counseling, which there are two levels of and I have to pay someone to supervise me 1 hour per week (which could cost anywhere from $40 to $140 per week) while I accumulate 1900 hours of counseling work (that's about 2 years working full time so 104 weeks ish minimum) to obtain the second level of licensure so I can work with people who have insurance. So it's fair for me to shell out all this money just to help people, but it's ignorant to ask the government to make paying it back a little more reasonable? I call bullshit. /End Rant | ||
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TheAngryZergling
United States387 Posts
On April 18 2012 16:42 NEOtheONE wrote: Commence Rant/ Education is grossly overcharged. It is utterly preposterous what we have to pay on average here in America. source: http://www.infozee.com/usa/expenses.htm I don't think its fair to include living expenses with the cost of education. People who don't go to college have to pay that too. On April 18 2012 16:42 NEOtheONE wrote: So it's fair for me to shell out all this money just to help people, but it's ignorant to ask the government to make paying it back a little more reasonable? I call bullshit. /End Rant Except that you don't shell out money to help people. You shell out money so that you can get paid while helping people (which also benefits you in non-monetary ways. Though I do honestly have sympathy for the generally high cost (relative to reimbursement) of jobs which "help people". | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On April 18 2012 16:42 NEOtheONE wrote: Commence Rant/ Education is grossly overcharged. It is utterly preposterous what we have to pay on average here in America. source: http://www.infozee.com/usa/expenses.htm For myself, I went to a private institution and lived there. So tuition +room +board was approximately $29,000 per year. I received a scholarship for $8500 per year and a grant of $4500 per year. The other $16,000 per year came in the form of loans split between my parents and myself. Tack on 3 years of graduate school for my Masters degree in Counseling and I am looking at $60,000 that I personally owe (before interest). I am greatly in favor of the idea of not having to pay back the full $60,000 plus interest over a 10-15 year period (which makes the $60,000 turn into more like $90,000-100,000). In addition to that debt, I have to obtain and maintain my license to practice counseling, which there are two levels of and I have to pay someone to supervise me 1 hour per week (which could cost anywhere from $40 to $140 per week) while I accumulate 1900 hours of counseling work (that's about 2 years working full time so 104 weeks ish minimum) to obtain the second level of licensure so I can work with people who have insurance. So it's fair for me to shell out all this money just to help people, but it's ignorant to ask the government to make paying it back a little more reasonable? I call bullshit. /End Rant Isn't it your fault you went to get your masters before getting a job first? | ||
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feanor1
United States1899 Posts
On April 18 2012 16:42 NEOtheONE wrote: Commence Rant/ Education is grossly overcharged. It is utterly preposterous what we have to pay on average here in America. source: http://www.infozee.com/usa/expenses.htm For myself, I went to a private institution and lived there. So tuition +room +board was approximately $29,000 per year. I received a scholarship for $8500 per year and a grant of $4500 per year. The other $16,000 per year came in the form of loans split between my parents and myself. Tack on 3 years of graduate school for my Masters degree in Counseling and I am looking at $60,000 that I personally owe (before interest). I am greatly in favor of the idea of not having to pay back the full $60,000 plus interest over a 10-15 year period (which makes the $60,000 turn into more like $90,000-100,000). In addition to that debt, I have to obtain and maintain my license to practice counseling, which there are two levels of and I have to pay someone to supervise me 1 hour per week (which could cost anywhere from $40 to $140 per week) while I accumulate 1900 hours of counseling work (that's about 2 years working full time so 104 weeks ish minimum) to obtain the second level of licensure so I can work with people who have insurance. So it's fair for me to shell out all this money just to help people, but it's ignorant to ask the government to make paying it back a little more reasonable? I call bullshit. /End Rant Your not shelling out all this money to help people.....That would be volunteering your time. Your shelling out all this money to work in a field that you want to. Isn't it your fault you went to get your masters before getting a job first? Yes and many jobs require two years of supervised experience before you can obtain a full license. | ||
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