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On April 18 2012 14:13 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 14:10 TheAngryZergling wrote:On April 18 2012 14:04 Battleaxe wrote:On April 18 2012 13:37 kuzyk wrote:
the decisions some people make to take out loans are just amazing. compare these 2 choices.
the 1st is the classic college experience living at a private school for 4 years,
tuition + room and board 36,320 per year, so a total of $145280
the other option is 2 years of community college and living at home
tuition and living at home 2,900 per year, so $5800
final 2 years at public university, and assume you need to stay on campus because of distance
tuition + room and board 17,600 per year, $35200
final total $41000
why wouldn't you choose option 2? you saved yourself 100k. Are you aware of anyone actually doing option 2 successfully? Also, your example is comparing a private university to a public university, your argument holds even less water. Why not adjust your numbers to use the same school in 2 vs 4 years? Yes. My younger brother went to a local community college, got a low end engineering job right away out of an internship started during his final semester. Guess what, after he was a proven commodity to his company they immediately sent him back to get more education on their dime because he had proved his value. EZ PZ. community college is almost never a bad choice, if you get good grades and transfer and maintain a solid gpa, it really doesnt matter if you went for a full 4 years to a uni.
i agree with that, i made a huge mistake going to a university for 2 years, i didn't know that i would end up deciding against the major i was going for, huge waste of money.
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On April 18 2012 13:48 Mordanis wrote:
I've wanted to post this for a few months now, but never really had the time for it. Anyways, last semester I was a freshman at the University of Arizona, majoring in Physics and Astronomy (basically the same thing for undergrad). Anyways, I was in charge of paying for my own way, and so I had about $3k in student loans for just the one semester. I was a fucking awful student, spent most of my time watching and playing SC2, and basically doing everything except for school-work. I fooled myself into thinking that I would pass all of my classes, but I just am not capable of passing 5 very difficult classes without putting in some work. I failed 3 classes, and during Christmas break, I told my parents that I wouldn't be able to return to University for the spring semester. Now I am enrolled in 3 classes at a community college and I'm working 20 hours a week at Pizza Hut. While this may not be the most ideal way to get into a field like Astronomy, I'm sure as hell going to have a shit-ton less debt than anyone else I know who's going straight through a 4 year institution. I'll also only be delayed by 6 months (in all likelihood), and I'll have real-world experience.
The purpose of this anecdote is not to prove that anyone going to a 4 year institution is an idiot, it is simply to say that it is not for everyone. When I was in High School, all of my teachers and friends talked about Community Colleges as the place for people who failed their way through high school. What I actually see is more driven people, who are more likely to get a good job than the people who party their way to a Pottery degree at some 4 year university. Hell, I have a couple of family friends who work in the recycling industry, and they both say that someone who knows their shit is infinitely more likely to get a job with them than someone who has a degree. From what I hear, programming is even more severe with that trend. In short, there are alternatives to University, even for those who want an "Academic" career. If you go to a 4-year University, you should know that you will have to get a fairly good job to pay for the first two years that could be accomplished at community college for 1/5 the price.
I'm curious how exactly one "pays their own way" at the University of Arizona and only has $3k debt in one semester?Estimated University of Arizona Cost
According to this link, the cost of tuition would run you ~$4500 along per semester, assuming you're living with your parents/commuting and incurring no other expenses (since you didn't mention a job while at U of A). Based on that, I'll assume you either had money saved to cover the other $1500 or you're math is really bad.
The purpose of this anecdote is not to prove that anyone going to a community college is an idiot, it's simply to say that not everyone can handle a 4 year college. People who think college is just for partying and fucking around, dont make it (see above). People who think college is just for studying, probably make it but from my experience have trouble finding a job because that's all they did was bury their noses in a book and have no clue how to handle an interview or other people in a working environment.
One of things that made me work the hardest in college was knowing I was the one fronting the bill. My parents made that abundantly clear before I even graduated high school, so knowing doing shitty in school would be a waste of money was never in the cards. I even failed a couple classes, dropped another here and there, and thanks to summer sessions I still managed to get out in 4 years, granted with some greater incurred cost.
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okay so i have a big issue understanding how this works.
So from what i get Community college and Public universities apparently are worthless in the USA.
Now my question is... are they really that bad? and im not asking if they are of the same quality of the biggest private universities or something but... is it really worth it to pay those extra 100k dollars when that extra quality doesnt really end up being a big deal because lets face it... the people that are smart and want to thriump will do it witouth the need of a big and fancy private university but my question is about the average student... who spends most of the time on the campus on the internet/partying/doing everything but studying, is it worth it for them? or are community college´s and public universities really that bad.
(just to give some insight here in colombia the best universities are the public universities and only those who REALLY want to study actually end up finishing a carrer in those so it ends up being a thing of Smart+wanting to triumph = really really cheap higher education , and spoiled little brat = a quite expensive carreer on a private university).
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On April 18 2012 14:20 Battleaxe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 13:48 Mordanis wrote:
I've wanted to post this for a few months now, but never really had the time for it. Anyways, last semester I was a freshman at the University of Arizona, majoring in Physics and Astronomy (basically the same thing for undergrad). Anyways, I was in charge of paying for my own way, and so I had about $3k in student loans for just the one semester. I was a fucking awful student, spent most of my time watching and playing SC2, and basically doing everything except for school-work. I fooled myself into thinking that I would pass all of my classes, but I just am not capable of passing 5 very difficult classes without putting in some work. I failed 3 classes, and during Christmas break, I told my parents that I wouldn't be able to return to University for the spring semester. Now I am enrolled in 3 classes at a community college and I'm working 20 hours a week at Pizza Hut. While this may not be the most ideal way to get into a field like Astronomy, I'm sure as hell going to have a shit-ton less debt than anyone else I know who's going straight through a 4 year institution. I'll also only be delayed by 6 months (in all likelihood), and I'll have real-world experience.
The purpose of this anecdote is not to prove that anyone going to a 4 year institution is an idiot, it is simply to say that it is not for everyone. When I was in High School, all of my teachers and friends talked about Community Colleges as the place for people who failed their way through high school. What I actually see is more driven people, who are more likely to get a good job than the people who party their way to a Pottery degree at some 4 year university. Hell, I have a couple of family friends who work in the recycling industry, and they both say that someone who knows their shit is infinitely more likely to get a job with them than someone who has a degree. From what I hear, programming is even more severe with that trend. In short, there are alternatives to University, even for those who want an "Academic" career. If you go to a 4-year University, you should know that you will have to get a fairly good job to pay for the first two years that could be accomplished at community college for 1/5 the price. I'm curious how exactly one "pays their own way" at the University of Arizona and only has $3k debt in one semester? Estimated University of Arizona CostAccording to this link, the cost of tuition would run you ~$4500 along per semester, assuming you're living with your parents/commuting and incurring no other expenses (since you didn't mention a job while at U of A). Based on that, I'll assume you either had money saved to cover the other $1500 or you're math is really bad. The purpose of this anecdote is not to prove that anyone going to a community college is an idiot, it's simply to say that not everyone can handle a 4 year college. People who think college is just for partying and fucking around, dont make it (see above). People who think college is just for studying, probably make it but from my experience have trouble finding a job because that's all they did was bury their noses in a book and have no clue how to handle an interview or other people in a working environment. One of things that made me work the hardest in college was knowing I was the one fronting the bill. My parents made that abundantly clear before I even graduated high school, so knowing doing shitty in school would be a waste of money was never in the cards. I even failed a couple classes, dropped another here and there, and thanks to summer sessions I still managed to get out in 4 years, granted with some greater incurred cost.
It was a weird thing where my parents paid for my food and room and board, IDK what else. Regardless, I am already getting some company mailing me telling me to start paying on my 3 thousand dollar loan.
Edit: Yeah, in retrospect, that statement was slightly misleading. In my defense, I was paying 2/3 of my way, and the food + dorm thing was only for the first year.
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On April 18 2012 14:23 Panzamelano wrote:
okay so i have a big issue understanding how this works.
So from what i get Community college and Public universities apparently are worthless in the USA.
Now my question is... are they really that bad? and im not asking if they are of the same quality of the biggest private universities or something but... is it really worth it to pay those extra 100k dollars when that extra quality doesnt really end up being a big deal because lets face it... the people that are smart and want to thriump will do it witouth the need of a big and fancy private university but my question is about the average student... who spends most of the time on the campus on the internet/partying/doing everything but studying, is it worth it for them? or are community college´s and public universities really that bad.
(just to give some insight here in colombia the best universities are the public universities and only those who REALLY want to study actually end up finishing a carrer in those so it ends up being a thing of Smart+wanting to triumph = really really cheap higher education , and spoiled little brat = a quite expensive carreer on a private university).
No, they're not that bad, where bad-ness is evaluated in terms of ability to allow you to be considered for a job that provides a financially comfortable life. While it doesn't hold true for every field obviously any public college can put you in a position to earn $100K salary within 10 years of being in the field.
Going to a community colleges probably increases the time to 100K/yr by 5 years and likely necessitates a return trip to a 4 yr college to get a BS (on your dime or another's).
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i dont like it. no one forgave my parents student loans that they spent years working off, so why does anyone else deserve it? balderdash.
Ah yes, the old "I can't have a lollipop so why should anyone else have a lollipop" argument. My parents also struggled with student loans and finally paid them off. Why wouldn't I want them to have had the opportunity to be more economically independent? Between me being born unexpectedly and their crushing debt, they almost got divorced several times. If they could have had an easier option, that would have been wonderful. Not saying that this bill is necessarily the right way to do things (how about tackling the enormous growth rate of tuition at public universities!), just saying your logic in infantile.
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On April 18 2012 09:20 sc2superfan101 wrote:
i dont like it. no one forgave my parents student loans that they spent years working off, so why does anyone else deserve it? balderdash.
what so your saying since your parents got screwed that everyone else after them should too? a bit spiteful that is
i think its a start... but imo i think they need to get go after why education costs so damn much to begin with.
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On April 18 2012 14:23 Panzamelano wrote:
okay so i have a big issue understanding how this works.
So from what i get Community college and Public universities apparently are worthless in the USA.
Now my question is... are they really that bad? and im not asking if they are of the same quality of the biggest private universities or something but... is it really worth it to pay those extra 100k dollars when that extra quality doesnt really end up being a big deal because lets face it... the people that are smart and want to thriump will do it witouth the need of a big and fancy private university but my question is about the average student... who spends most of the time on the campus on the internet/partying/doing everything but studying, is it worth it for them? or are community college´s and public universities really that bad.
(just to give some insight here in colombia the best universities are the public universities and only those who REALLY want to study actually end up finishing a carrer in those so it ends up being a thing of Smart+wanting to triumph = really really cheap higher education , and spoiled little brat = a quite expensive carreer on a private university).
People who intend to do all that should really stay away from student loans and colleges in general if they can't afford it.
Don't party away moolah when it isn't yours.
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On April 18 2012 14:16 polysciguy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 14:13 biology]major wrote:On April 18 2012 14:10 TheAngryZergling wrote:On April 18 2012 14:04 Battleaxe wrote:On April 18 2012 13:37 kuzyk wrote:
the decisions some people make to take out loans are just amazing. compare these 2 choices.
the 1st is the classic college experience living at a private school for 4 years,
tuition + room and board 36,320 per year, so a total of $145280
the other option is 2 years of community college and living at home
tuition and living at home 2,900 per year, so $5800
final 2 years at public university, and assume you need to stay on campus because of distance
tuition + room and board 17,600 per year, $35200
final total $41000
why wouldn't you choose option 2? you saved yourself 100k. Are you aware of anyone actually doing option 2 successfully? Also, your example is comparing a private university to a public university, your argument holds even less water. Why not adjust your numbers to use the same school in 2 vs 4 years? Yes. My younger brother went to a local community college, got a low end engineering job right away out of an internship started during his final semester. Guess what, after he was a proven commodity to his company they immediately sent him back to get more education on their dime because he had proved his value. EZ PZ. community college is almost never a bad choice, if you get good grades and transfer and maintain a solid gpa, it really doesnt matter if you went for a full 4 years to a uni. i agree with that, i made a huge mistake going to a university for 2 years, i didn't know that i would end up deciding against the major i was going for, huge waste of money.
You're talking about an engineering degree, which if I'm not mistaken is a profession that has been identified in recent years as an area where US students are not performing as well, so it wouldn't surprise me a company would send a valuable employee to get more education. My point was more so that the example figures given were biased to make community college look more appealing, when in fact the difference is much less compared to the figures of that poster.
I personally don't know many (if anyone) who has successfully made the transition from community college to university and actually gotten out in 2 years with a bachelor's, of course it happens. Tell someone that it doesn't matter if they went to a community college when they get beat out for a job because they didn't seem qualified enough compared to another recent grad who came out a 4 year university. As much as people don't want to hear it, if you have 2 canidates competing for a job and the only major difference is a community college vs university, the university candidate will win out unless the company is looking to the pay the person less. The fact of the matter is I make more money at my job doing the exact same thing as coworkers who have been there several years longer then I simply because I have a 4 year college degree.
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On April 18 2012 14:27 Mordanis wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 14:20 Battleaxe wrote:On April 18 2012 13:48 Mordanis wrote:
I've wanted to post this for a few months now, but never really had the time for it. Anyways, last semester I was a freshman at the University of Arizona, majoring in Physics and Astronomy (basically the same thing for undergrad). Anyways, I was in charge of paying for my own way, and so I had about $3k in student loans for just the one semester. I was a fucking awful student, spent most of my time watching and playing SC2, and basically doing everything except for school-work. I fooled myself into thinking that I would pass all of my classes, but I just am not capable of passing 5 very difficult classes without putting in some work. I failed 3 classes, and during Christmas break, I told my parents that I wouldn't be able to return to University for the spring semester. Now I am enrolled in 3 classes at a community college and I'm working 20 hours a week at Pizza Hut. While this may not be the most ideal way to get into a field like Astronomy, I'm sure as hell going to have a shit-ton less debt than anyone else I know who's going straight through a 4 year institution. I'll also only be delayed by 6 months (in all likelihood), and I'll have real-world experience.
The purpose of this anecdote is not to prove that anyone going to a 4 year institution is an idiot, it is simply to say that it is not for everyone. When I was in High School, all of my teachers and friends talked about Community Colleges as the place for people who failed their way through high school. What I actually see is more driven people, who are more likely to get a good job than the people who party their way to a Pottery degree at some 4 year university. Hell, I have a couple of family friends who work in the recycling industry, and they both say that someone who knows their shit is infinitely more likely to get a job with them than someone who has a degree. From what I hear, programming is even more severe with that trend. In short, there are alternatives to University, even for those who want an "Academic" career. If you go to a 4-year University, you should know that you will have to get a fairly good job to pay for the first two years that could be accomplished at community college for 1/5 the price. I'm curious how exactly one "pays their own way" at the University of Arizona and only has $3k debt in one semester? Estimated University of Arizona CostAccording to this link, the cost of tuition would run you ~$4500 along per semester, assuming you're living with your parents/commuting and incurring no other expenses (since you didn't mention a job while at U of A). Based on that, I'll assume you either had money saved to cover the other $1500 or you're math is really bad. The purpose of this anecdote is not to prove that anyone going to a community college is an idiot, it's simply to say that not everyone can handle a 4 year college. People who think college is just for partying and fucking around, dont make it (see above). People who think college is just for studying, probably make it but from my experience have trouble finding a job because that's all they did was bury their noses in a book and have no clue how to handle an interview or other people in a working environment. One of things that made me work the hardest in college was knowing I was the one fronting the bill. My parents made that abundantly clear before I even graduated high school, so knowing doing shitty in school would be a waste of money was never in the cards. I even failed a couple classes, dropped another here and there, and thanks to summer sessions I still managed to get out in 4 years, granted with some greater incurred cost. It was a weird thing where my parents paid for my food and room and board, IDK what else. Regardless, I am already getting some company mailing me telling me to start paying on my 3 thousand dollar loan. Edit: Yeah, in retrospect, that statement was slightly misleading. In my defense, I was paying 2/3 of my way, and the food + dorm thing was only for the first year.
Understandable, actually figuring out your monetary while still in school is a fucking nightmare, so I totally understand. Just wanted to try and clear some things up for people who may peruse the thread later. <3 GL with school though
EDIT: bah double post, I'm going away now >.<
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Signed. Other smart countries already have free public higher-education. I am one of those recent grads who is sitting on a good degree with nowhere to go. Every place I apply that I'm qualified for there are 200 other applicants. Underemployment for 21-29 year olds is still in the low twenty percents. Either everyone needs to be pushed to seek higher education by public funding or we have to completely change how employers hire/train. The better solution would be both solutions; This petition could be the step in one of those directions.
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On April 18 2012 14:31 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 14:23 Panzamelano wrote:
okay so i have a big issue understanding how this works.
So from what i get Community college and Public universities apparently are worthless in the USA.
Now my question is... are they really that bad? and im not asking if they are of the same quality of the biggest private universities or something but... is it really worth it to pay those extra 100k dollars when that extra quality doesnt really end up being a big deal because lets face it... the people that are smart and want to thriump will do it witouth the need of a big and fancy private university but my question is about the average student... who spends most of the time on the campus on the internet/partying/doing everything but studying, is it worth it for them? or are community college´s and public universities really that bad.
(just to give some insight here in colombia the best universities are the public universities and only those who REALLY want to study actually end up finishing a carrer in those so it ends up being a thing of Smart+wanting to triumph = really really cheap higher education , and spoiled little brat = a quite expensive carreer on a private university). People who intend to do all that should really stay away from student loans and colleges in general if they can't afford it. Don't party away moolah when it isn't yours.
Thats the vast majority of the reason why I'm so against the delaying/forgiving of student debts. Putting it that far in the future is an enabler for kids whose primary purpose for going to college is enjoy a relatively independent, short term consequence free environment. They are valuable assets to society in the prime of their lives that could be doing other jobs while not setting themselves up for financial burden or creating it for others. They can still party 3-5 days a week with just about any job that doesn't require more than a GED.
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On April 18 2012 12:02 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 11:54 Stratos_speAr wrote:On April 18 2012 11:50 Asol wrote:
Quick question here from a swede:
Don't you want the American people to become.. well more educated? In Sweden you're pretty much fucked without a degree, and well.. I'm sure some people don't enjoy studying or school for several reasons, but don't you want to get an education? I'd happily pay for everyone to have a education, that way I believe that we humans will evolve. The more people who have an education the smarter the population is. I'm not saying that you are stupid or anything if you don't have a degree (don't take it this way, not all). but isn't generally a educated population a better population? Surely they can make more informed and simply smarter decisions than a un-educated population? Unfortunately, a large portion of the American population is either 1) too selfish and self-centered to think this way or 2) too foolish to think long-term like this. i'll happily pay for your education if you pay for my education. oh, wait, this bill says that because i can afford to pay for my education that nobody is going to help me. so, the government denied me financial aid when i applied for school, i had to work through school and because i made good choices and kept my debt manageable, i now am being denied government aid again.
You've spouted this sort of stuff off a lot in this thread and I just don't think you're thinking about what you're saying.
Whether or not you have children, you pay for other people's kids to go to public school.
Even if you do well in life, you pay for people on welfare.
Even if you sacrifice to put food on your table, you still pay for people's food stamps.
Even if you don't drive, you pay for the roads that others do drive on.
The list goes on and on and on and on and on. Why must everything be quid pro quo? Why must the fact that other people have suffered under the weight of a truly broken system (college tuition) mean that future people must also suffer? Why should we stunt programs intended to help fix a problem simply because some people will not benefit from it?
Now, you can disagree with this approach, and that's fine. Like some people have said, it seems as though it would have an explosive effect on college prices even worse than we have now because whatever schools charge, the government would pay off after 10 years, supposedly. There are serious holes and questions for this law.
However, so many people are simply ignoring that this is a problem and that's truly puzzling to me. Look at this site for some basic figures (http://www.finaid.org/savings/tuition-inflation.phtml)
On average, tuition tends to increase about 8% per year. An 8% college inflation rate means that the cost of college doubles every nine years. For a baby born today, this means that college costs will be more than three times current rates when the child matriculates in college.
It's just not sustainable. It's not really the poor that suffer, they get need based scholarships at nearly all colleges. It's not the rich that suffer, because they have the money to pay. It's a HUGE cross-section of the middle who are deemed "too well off" for grants and scholarships and instead shoulder immense burdens of debt. The greatest gift my parents ever gave me was to pay for my college to spare me from potentially 80-100k of student loan debt. I wonder if I'll be able to afford to do the same for my children.
On average the price of tuition goes up 1.5x-2x the rate of inflation. Something has to be done to lower the rising costs of education. Perhaps this loan forgiveness bill is not the right approach, but people that are acting as though there is no problem are simply wrong. Likewise, people saying that we shouldn't do anything unless everyone (past and present) benefit from it are just being obstinate. So much of what we do and what we pay for and what we support are for those that need it most who may not be ourselves. Education makes people's lives better. It should be more affordable. Perhaps not mostly free like this bill would make it, but it should be more affordable than it is now.
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On April 18 2012 14:31 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 14:23 Panzamelano wrote:
okay so i have a big issue understanding how this works.
So from what i get Community college and Public universities apparently are worthless in the USA.
Now my question is... are they really that bad? and im not asking if they are of the same quality of the biggest private universities or something but... is it really worth it to pay those extra 100k dollars when that extra quality doesnt really end up being a big deal because lets face it... the people that are smart and want to thriump will do it witouth the need of a big and fancy private university but my question is about the average student... who spends most of the time on the campus on the internet/partying/doing everything but studying, is it worth it for them? or are community college´s and public universities really that bad.
(just to give some insight here in colombia the best universities are the public universities and only those who REALLY want to study actually end up finishing a carrer in those so it ends up being a thing of Smart+wanting to triumph = really really cheap higher education , and spoiled little brat = a quite expensive carreer on a private university). People who intend to do all that should really stay away from student loans and colleges in general if they can't afford it. Don't party away moolah when it isn't yours.
Ofcourse they should stay away from student loans and colleges in general... but they dont and sadly its only the minority of those who go to a university that actually spend their time studying and working towards a good future whit a stable job because lets face it... most people dont like studying so they give the bare minimum to get trough because they expect that the degree magically will get them from a lazy student who barely passes his classes to a freaking millionare earning a ton of cash as soon as they finish the university.
On April 18 2012 14:30 TheAngryZergling wrote:
No, they're not that bad, where bad-ness is evaluated in terms of ability to allow you to be considered for a job that provides a financially comfortable life. While it doesn't hold true for every field obviously any public college can put you in a position to earn $100K salary within 10 years of being in the field.
Going to a community colleges probably increases the time to 100K/yr by 5 years and likely necessitates a return trip to a 4 yr college to get a BS (on your dime or another's).
okay so going to a community college is the hard and slow way thats fine.
but if public universities are fine and (according to the numbers that Kuzyk gave) are so cheap in comparission... why is everyone getting into these MASSIVE 100k+ debts?.
is it sheer lack of knowledge?, Peer pressure? , or what is it?.
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On April 18 2012 14:38 slytown wrote:
Signed. Other smart countries already have free public higher-education. I am one of those recent grads who is sitting on a good degree with nowhere to go. Every place I apply that I'm qualified for there are 200 other applicants. Underemployment for 21-29 year olds is still in the low twenty percents. Either everyone needs to be pushed to seek higher education by public funding or we have to completely change how employers hire/train. The better solution would be both solutions; This petition could be the step in one of those directions.
Where did you go to college, what was your degree, and what was your GPA? As long as you performed decently and went to a good school there's no reason you shouldn't have a job, unless you did something like be an English or History major. Every single one of my friends that got above a 3.3 GPA, had internships while in college, and actively sought out jobs while still an undergrad found good jobs, at least paying ~40k. I don't have a single friend (who I at least talk to regularly) that hasn't been able to find a job.
Every place you apply there's over 200 other applicants, but if your credentials are better than theirs because you tried harder in college, you'll get the job. The people suffering now are those with sub 3.3 GPAs that didn't study hard enough or didn't actively job search during their senior year.
On April 18 2012 14:49 Panzamelano wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 14:31 S_SienZ wrote:On April 18 2012 14:23 Panzamelano wrote:
okay so i have a big issue understanding how this works.
So from what i get Community college and Public universities apparently are worthless in the USA.
Now my question is... are they really that bad? and im not asking if they are of the same quality of the biggest private universities or something but... is it really worth it to pay those extra 100k dollars when that extra quality doesnt really end up being a big deal because lets face it... the people that are smart and want to thriump will do it witouth the need of a big and fancy private university but my question is about the average student... who spends most of the time on the campus on the internet/partying/doing everything but studying, is it worth it for them? or are community college´s and public universities really that bad.
(just to give some insight here in colombia the best universities are the public universities and only those who REALLY want to study actually end up finishing a carrer in those so it ends up being a thing of Smart+wanting to triumph = really really cheap higher education , and spoiled little brat = a quite expensive carreer on a private university). People who intend to do all that should really stay away from student loans and colleges in general if they can't afford it. Don't party away moolah when it isn't yours. Ofcourse they should stay away from student loans and colleges in general... but they dont and sadly its only the minority of those who go to a university that actually spend their time studying and working towards a good future whit a stable job because lets face it... most people dont like studying so they give the bare minimum to get trough because they expect that the degree magically will get them from a lazy student who barely passes his classes to a freaking millionare earning a ton of cash as soon as they finish the university. Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 14:30 TheAngryZergling wrote:
No, they're not that bad, where bad-ness is evaluated in terms of ability to allow you to be considered for a job that provides a financially comfortable life. While it doesn't hold true for every field obviously any public college can put you in a position to earn $100K salary within 10 years of being in the field.
Going to a community colleges probably increases the time to 100K/yr by 5 years and likely necessitates a return trip to a 4 yr college to get a BS (on your dime or another's). okay so going to a community college is the hard and slow way thats fine. but if public universities are fine and (according to the numbers that Kuzyk gave) are so cheap in comparission... why is everyone getting into these MASSIVE 100k+ debts?. is it sheer lack of knowledge?, Peer pressure? , or what is it?.
People that end up with 100k+ in debt are fucking retarded.
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On April 18 2012 14:16 polysciguy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 14:13 biology]major wrote:On April 18 2012 14:10 TheAngryZergling wrote:On April 18 2012 14:04 Battleaxe wrote:On April 18 2012 13:37 kuzyk wrote:
the decisions some people make to take out loans are just amazing. compare these 2 choices.
the 1st is the classic college experience living at a private school for 4 years,
tuition + room and board 36,320 per year, so a total of $145280
the other option is 2 years of community college and living at home
tuition and living at home 2,900 per year, so $5800
final 2 years at public university, and assume you need to stay on campus because of distance
tuition + room and board 17,600 per year, $35200
final total $41000
why wouldn't you choose option 2? you saved yourself 100k. Are you aware of anyone actually doing option 2 successfully? Also, your example is comparing a private university to a public university, your argument holds even less water. Why not adjust your numbers to use the same school in 2 vs 4 years? Yes. My younger brother went to a local community college, got a low end engineering job right away out of an internship started during his final semester. Guess what, after he was a proven commodity to his company they immediately sent him back to get more education on their dime because he had proved his value. EZ PZ. community college is almost never a bad choice, if you get good grades and transfer and maintain a solid gpa, it really doesnt matter if you went for a full 4 years to a uni. i agree with that, i made a huge mistake going to a university for 2 years, i didn't know that i would end up deciding against the major i was going for, huge waste of money.
our ids are our majors (im assuming ur polisci) haha :p
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I have $120,000 in student loan debt, (a four year engineering degree from a public, state-funded university). About $30,000 is federal. And I didn't fuck around either, I graduated on time with a 3.47 GPA and recommendations from advisers to put on job applications. So last year I applied for about 75 entry level engineering jobs and internships, and NEVER heard ANYTHING from one of them. Since I needed to start payments on my loans so quickly after graduation, I decided to teach English in Korea because it's a guaranteed salary and SC is awesome.
Right now I make about $20,000 per year to feed myself and my wife AND make payments on those loans.
If my mom hadn't cosigned my loans, I would just change my name and stay in Korea for the rest of my life. Fuck the system. If the government does something about it, great. Because right now, college education in America is totally fucked, not worth it at all. That's what I'm telling all my younger cousins. Don't fucking do it in America. It's a waste.
Community college is another story all together. If I wasn't so pressured by my family to get the best education possible regardless of results, and had decent knowledge of the job market four years in advance, I would have absolutely gone with community. The real problem is forcing 16-17 year olds to make a decision that has the equivalent repercussions of taking out a mortgage
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On April 18 2012 14:30 TheAngryZergling wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 14:23 Panzamelano wrote:
okay so i have a big issue understanding how this works.
So from what i get Community college and Public universities apparently are worthless in the USA.
Now my question is... are they really that bad? and im not asking if they are of the same quality of the biggest private universities or something but... is it really worth it to pay those extra 100k dollars when that extra quality doesnt really end up being a big deal because lets face it... the people that are smart and want to thriump will do it witouth the need of a big and fancy private university but my question is about the average student... who spends most of the time on the campus on the internet/partying/doing everything but studying, is it worth it for them? or are community college´s and public universities really that bad.
(just to give some insight here in colombia the best universities are the public universities and only those who REALLY want to study actually end up finishing a carrer in those so it ends up being a thing of Smart+wanting to triumph = really really cheap higher education , and spoiled little brat = a quite expensive carreer on a private university). No, they're not that bad, where bad-ness is evaluated in terms of ability to allow you to be considered for a job that provides a financially comfortable life. While it doesn't hold true for every field obviously any public college can put you in a position to earn $100K salary within 10 years of being in the field. Going to a community colleges probably increases the time to 100K/yr by 5 years and likely necessitates a return trip to a 4 yr college to get a BS (on your dime or another's).
Just so you know, if you HOUSEHOLD makes 100K/yr, it is in the top 15-20% of all households in the US. Not individual salary, household salary. It's not common for people that attend college to be making > 100K in any reasonable amount of time. As you said though, some fields it is more common. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States)
According to this there are approximately 40 or so jobs in the US for which the average salary is over 100K. Most of them are professional (law/medicine) or are engineering based. (http://www.myplan.com/careers/top-ten/highest-paying.php)
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On April 18 2012 14:50 FabledIntegral wrote:
People that end up with 100k+ in debt are fucking retarded.
Or are in law school. (Including the good ones)
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On April 18 2012 14:49 Panzamelano wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 14:30 TheAngryZergling wrote:
No, they're not that bad, where bad-ness is evaluated in terms of ability to allow you to be considered for a job that provides a financially comfortable life. While it doesn't hold true for every field obviously any public college can put you in a position to earn $100K salary within 10 years of being in the field.
Going to a community colleges probably increases the time to 100K/yr by 5 years and likely necessitates a return trip to a 4 yr college to get a BS (on your dime or another's). okay so going to a community college is the hard and slow way thats fine. but if public universities are fine and (according to the numbers that Kuzyk gave) are so cheap in comparission... why is everyone getting into these MASSIVE 100k+ debts?. is it sheer lack of knowledge?, Peer pressure? , or what is it?.
Yeah, I think those 2 reasons are large contributors for such colossal debt.
I know a lot of kids take out much larger loans than they need/needed because "hey I'll pay it off when I have a job and meanwhile I'll purchase smart phones, large TVs, a car, $100+/month in alcohol etc" They then feel life is unfair when everything doesn't go precisely according to their life plan (if they think ahead at all) and they don't get an amazing job straight out of school and live in the shadow of a school loan that could have been much more manageable if they had lived according to anything resembling their means.
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EPT
