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Shooting of Trayvon Martin - Page 76

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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP.

If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post.
TheRabidDeer
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States3806 Posts
December 04 2012 00:15 GMT
#1501
On December 04 2012 08:50 dAPhREAk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 08:49 Sufficiency wrote:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/03/justice/george-zimmerman-photo/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

I really don't see Zimmerman losing the case now.

wow, you are fast. I was just about to post it.

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

Why in hell did it take them 9 months to release this photo?
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-04 01:09:53
December 04 2012 00:18 GMT
#1502
On December 04 2012 09:15 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 08:50 dAPhREAk wrote:
On December 04 2012 08:49 Sufficiency wrote:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/03/justice/george-zimmerman-photo/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

I really don't see Zimmerman losing the case now.

wow, you are fast. I was just about to post it.

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

Why in hell did it take them 9 months to release this photo?

i was pondering the same thing. whether zimmerman is guilty or not, does it not bother people that the prosecution was sitting on this photo (and refusing to give it to defense counsel) while the media was basically saying that there is no evidence of injuries to zimmerman? its absurd. so much gamesmanship makes people distrust prosecutors. its the duke lacrosse case all over again.

oh, and to answer your question, they probably didnt release it because it hurts their case. but thats just me speculating.

edit: correction, they produced a black and white photo, but not the color photo.
ClanRH.TV
Profile Joined July 2010
United States462 Posts
December 04 2012 00:25 GMT
#1503
Instead of the title "Blood new photo released of Trayvon martins killer," they could have said "New Photo's of George Martin Released." Guilty until proven innocent.
"Don't take life too seriously because you'll never get out alive."
Zealotdriver
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1557 Posts
December 04 2012 00:28 GMT
#1504
It's unclear to me how this photo changes anything. I thought we knew Zimmerman sustained some injuries from fighting with Martin. We don't know and will never know which of the two initiated violence.
Turn off the radio
discomatt
Profile Joined March 2012
113 Posts
December 04 2012 00:31 GMT
#1505
On December 04 2012 09:25 ClanRH.TV wrote:
Instead of the title "Blood new photo released of Trayvon martins killer," they could have said "New Photo's of George Martin Released." Guilty until proven innocent.


Well, he did kill Martin. The legal battle is whether or not it was murder.
Sub40APM
Profile Joined August 2010
6336 Posts
December 04 2012 00:32 GMT
#1506
On December 04 2012 09:11 docvoc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 09:04 Sub40APM wrote:
On December 04 2012 08:49 Sufficiency wrote:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/03/justice/george-zimmerman-photo/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

I really don't see Zimmerman losing the case now.

Why is that? Zimmerman stalked Martin, then assaulted him, then when Martin in self defense took the upper hand Zimmerman shot him. A murderer doesnt get of because his victim managed to get in some good hits before being killed.

Unless you haven't been following it for a while now, the Martin case refused to accept that Martin fought back and said that Zimmerman was a liar. They can't change their case now because that would show not just weakness but would also show that they were lying earlier. He didn't stalk Martin in any way as the case has panned out. Zimmerman can't lose because the public now sees that not only did he not stalk Martin, he used lethal force in a case where Martin did attack Zimmerman in a way that injured him. Not only that, but Zimmerman was in a position of power and made the decision to end the fight after Martin initiated. Zimmerman really can't lose at this point.

Glad to see another legal eagle on TL.
jdseemoreglass
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States3773 Posts
December 04 2012 00:35 GMT
#1507
On December 04 2012 09:28 Zealotdriver wrote:
It's unclear to me how this photo changes anything. I thought we knew Zimmerman sustained some injuries from fighting with Martin. We don't know and will never know which of the two initiated violence.

You'd be surprised how many people here were even denying that he sustained any injuries. But if you want to talk about the case, it would definitely have an impact on a jury to see this sort of thing.
"If you want this forum to be full of half-baked philosophy discussions between pompous faggots like yourself forever, stay the course captain vanilla" - FakeSteve[TPR], 2006
Alay
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States660 Posts
December 04 2012 00:49 GMT
#1508
On December 04 2012 09:28 Zealotdriver wrote:
It's unclear to me how this photo changes anything. I thought we knew Zimmerman sustained some injuries from fighting with Martin. We don't know and will never know which of the two initiated violence.


I believe it's because the prosecution was making their case on that Martin never fought back.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
December 04 2012 01:14 GMT
#1509
On December 04 2012 09:49 Alay wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 09:28 Zealotdriver wrote:
It's unclear to me how this photo changes anything. I thought we knew Zimmerman sustained some injuries from fighting with Martin. We don't know and will never know which of the two initiated violence.


I believe it's because the prosecution was making their case on that Martin never fought back.


Because for the longest time the media portrayed Martin as the victim and Zimmerman as the aggressor.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
GrapeApe
Profile Joined March 2011
1053 Posts
December 04 2012 01:19 GMT
#1510
So, I haven't been keeping up but has this case shifted directions from the "omg hang Zimmerman" to "okay, this might have been self defense/not so cut and dry after all?"
GOIMBA.com <--- eSports betting :)
ClanRH.TV
Profile Joined July 2010
United States462 Posts
December 04 2012 01:21 GMT
#1511
On December 04 2012 09:31 discomatt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 09:25 ClanRH.TV wrote:
Instead of the title "Blood new photo released of Trayvon martins killer," they could have said "New Photo's of George Martin Released." Guilty until proven innocent.


Well, he did kill Martin. The legal battle is whether or not it was murder.


I think you know what I was saying and I shouldn't have to explain my purpose. However, just in case you don't, the way the sentence is structured and phrased clearly sheds negative light on Zimmerman. You don't call someone who was in fear for their life and acted in self-defense (not that this is necessarily the case here...I just don't know) a killer. The statement is biased and that's all there is to it.
"Don't take life too seriously because you'll never get out alive."
ClanRH.TV
Profile Joined July 2010
United States462 Posts
December 04 2012 01:22 GMT
#1512
On December 04 2012 10:19 GrapeApe wrote:
So, I haven't been keeping up but has this case shifted directions from the "omg hang Zimmerman" to "okay, this might have been self defense/not so cut and dry after all?"


Depends on who you ask and what news station they've been watching. It's pathetic how media does that.
"Don't take life too seriously because you'll never get out alive."
Brett
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Australia3820 Posts
December 04 2012 01:30 GMT
#1513
I see this shit nearly every day in my job. Evidence that is quite possibly exculpatory excluded from briefs of evidence during discovery and only surfacing when defence learns of its existence (often through sheer luck or accident) or otherwise requests disclosure.

The prosecution have a duty to disclose and present all material evidence and witnesses in a case, not just the material or persons who will assist their position. Their duty is higher than simply prosecuting an accused. Disgusts me.
BluePanther
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2776 Posts
December 04 2012 01:44 GMT
#1514
On December 04 2012 08:59 dAPhREAk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 08:55 Sufficiency wrote:
On December 04 2012 08:50 dAPhREAk wrote:
On December 04 2012 08:49 Sufficiency wrote:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/03/justice/george-zimmerman-photo/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

I really don't see Zimmerman losing the case now.

wow, you are fast. I was just about to post it.

[image loading]


I think the case is basically fucked lol. I don't see how they can sustain the murder charge against him.

its certainly damaging evidence against the prosecution, but if zimmerman accosted trayvon, trayvon hit zimmerman and then zimmerman shot trayvon, zimmerman can still end up in prison for manslaughter/murder. however, the problem is proving any of it. few "eye" witnesses, and if i recall correctly, most of them favored zimmerman. zimmerman may not even need to take the stand in his own defense (self defense puts the burden on prosecution in florida).


the standard is reasonable doubt. the prosecution MUST DISPROVE SELF DEFENSE beyond a reasonable doubt.

Without a witness, any halfway decent trial lawyer should win. I know I could win this one.
Kaitlin
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2958 Posts
December 04 2012 01:57 GMT
#1515
On December 04 2012 10:30 Brett wrote:
I see this shit nearly every day in my job. Evidence that is quite possibly exculpatory excluded from briefs of evidence during discovery and only surfacing when defence learns of its existence (often through sheer luck or accident) or otherwise requests disclosure.

The prosecution have a duty to disclose and present all material evidence and witnesses in a case, not just the material or persons who will assist their position. Their duty is higher than simply prosecuting an accused. Disgusts me.


Worse than that, but here in the U.S., it's required by law that the prosecution turn over exculpatory evidence (Brady material) to the defense. To not do so is game over. In reality, prosecutors break the law all the fucking time.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18825 Posts
December 04 2012 02:02 GMT
#1516
On December 04 2012 10:30 Brett wrote:
I see this shit nearly every day in my job. Evidence that is quite possibly exculpatory excluded from briefs of evidence during discovery and only surfacing when defence learns of its existence (often through sheer luck or accident) or otherwise requests disclosure.

The prosecution have a duty to disclose and present all material evidence and witnesses in a case, not just the material or persons who will assist their position. Their duty is higher than simply prosecuting an accused. Disgusts me.

See, this sort of thing worries me, as the government and judicial infrastructure of Florida has a terrible track record, and who can even say the truth of all this with Floridian DA's and police in control of evidence. I'll admit that I think Zimmerman ought to be found guilty of manslaughter, provided current public evidence, but I kind of want the prosecution to have their face smashed in the mud in the hopes that someone takes a closer look at what is actually going on in states like Florida. The incompetence is appalling.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
December 04 2012 02:03 GMT
#1517
On December 04 2012 10:30 Brett wrote:
I see this shit nearly every day in my job. Evidence that is quite possibly exculpatory excluded from briefs of evidence during discovery and only surfacing when defence learns of its existence (often through sheer luck or accident) or otherwise requests disclosure.

The prosecution have a duty to disclose and present all material evidence and witnesses in a case, not just the material or persons who will assist their position. Their duty is higher than simply prosecuting an accused. Disgusts me.


Pretty sure Zimmerman's attorneys knew about it but it just took this long to get it released.

"So... after you were taken to the police station, did the police take photos of your injuries?"

"Yes"

Viola.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
BluePanther
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2776 Posts
December 04 2012 03:25 GMT
#1518
On December 04 2012 11:03 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 10:30 Brett wrote:
I see this shit nearly every day in my job. Evidence that is quite possibly exculpatory excluded from briefs of evidence during discovery and only surfacing when defence learns of its existence (often through sheer luck or accident) or otherwise requests disclosure.

The prosecution have a duty to disclose and present all material evidence and witnesses in a case, not just the material or persons who will assist their position. Their duty is higher than simply prosecuting an accused. Disgusts me.


Pretty sure Zimmerman's attorneys knew about it but it just took this long to get it released.

"So... after you were taken to the police station, did the police take photos of your injuries?"

"Yes"

Viola.


from the link:

The state had previously provided a black-and-white copy of the image, the attorneys wrote on the website. "This high resolution digital file was finally provided to the defense on October 29."


So yeah, the attorneys knew it existed for a long time now. They got the color version about a month ago.
stevelouise
Profile Joined December 2012
Canada9 Posts
December 04 2012 11:29 GMT
#1519
On December 04 2012 10:19 GrapeApe wrote:
So, I haven't been keeping up but has this case shifted directions from the "omg hang Zimmerman" to "okay, this might have been self defense/not so cut and dry after all?"

It was very obvious from the start that Zimmerman was innocent. The narrative of some blood crazed neighborhood watchman out to murder innocent upstanding black children with great futures ahead of them for no reason other than his purely evil racist nature simply didn't make sense.

Narratives like that only make sense in the deluded mind of left wing liberals who have been indoctrinated from birth to have a strong faith based belief in Black victimhood.

There was, from the day after the shooting, a witness saying he saw Zimmerman being pummeled as he screamed for help. Just like that didn't sway the social justice crusaders, this new image will not either. They are extremely deluded and vicious people who are motivated by hatred and emotion, rather than logic and the available facts of the case.

Funny how there is nary a peep out of them when Blacks kill other Blacks. They only pretend to care about Black deaths when it can be shoehorned into their fantasy world of Blacks being poor oppressed victims at the hands of evil White devils.

http://i.imgur.com/tIVG8.jpg
stevelouise
Profile Joined December 2012
Canada9 Posts
December 04 2012 11:34 GMT
#1520
For a good laugh go back and read the first TL Trayvon thread which was locked after the tide started turning against the raving hordes of social justice crusaders:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322664

I wonder: do leftists ever get sick of being wrong? When they are so consistently wrong and time and time again embarrass themselves when they jump on politically correct bandwagons (Duke lacrosse rape hoax comes to mind), you would expect them to reassess the beliefs they hold so dear.
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