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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP.
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On July 14 2013 15:06 Deathmanbob wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 14:58 Iceman331 wrote:
I haven't really been following the trial, but I am really, really disturbed by all the vitriol being thrown at Zimmerman right now. The man was acquitted, why does the general public refuse to believe he was actually innocent? Disturbing to say the least... OJ was acquitted as well, people feel that sometimes the judicial system fucks up. While i don't really care that he was found innocent (from all i heard about the law of "stand your ground" he was) I just think the whole stand your ground law is weird
Which part of the Stand Your Ground that is relevant to this case do you think is weird?
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On July 14 2013 15:00 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 14:58 Iceman331 wrote:
I haven't really been following the trial, but I am really, really disturbed by all the vitriol being thrown at Zimmerman right now. The man was acquitted, why does the general public refuse to believe he was actually innocent? Disturbing to say the least... most people made up their mind before the trial so the trial doesnt matter much.
That's a very good way to look at it. What you said is very accurate, and it's kind of sad.
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On July 14 2013 15:09 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 15:06 Deathmanbob wrote:On July 14 2013 14:58 Iceman331 wrote:
I haven't really been following the trial, but I am really, really disturbed by all the vitriol being thrown at Zimmerman right now. The man was acquitted, why does the general public refuse to believe he was actually innocent? Disturbing to say the least... OJ was acquitted as well, people feel that sometimes the judicial system fucks up. While i don't really care that he was found innocent (from all i heard about the law of "stand your ground" he was) I just think the whole stand your ground law is weird Which part of the Stand Your Ground that is relevant to this case do you think is weird?
The defense didn't even use the Stand Your Ground law. They just argued regular self-defense.
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On July 14 2013 15:09 czylu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 14:50 Judicator wrote:On July 14 2013 14:42 ShadowDrgn wrote:On July 14 2013 14:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
The American Media has one goal and one goal only, too keep Americans preoccupied from actual issues. That's a bit conspiracy theory-ish. The media's goal is ratings, and things like race wars make for good ratings. Actual issues are complex, difficult to understand, and usually unconnected from people's day-to-day lives, therefore they don't garner high ratings. As a result, the media panders to the lowest common denominator of easy-to-digest, inflammatory stories that appeal to the largest numbers of people. If some people get hurt along the way because the news is fanning the flames, that's just business as usual for them. To be honest, StealthBlue was pretty on point. The relevant discussion was the responsible use of firearms, but due to the recent school shooting, the public grew "tired" of hearing about that discussion. So to keep people watching, the media effectively obscured a more relevant discussion with a completely pointless race angle. Instead of having another discussion on public policy, we get something pretty worthless. this is a discussion on public policy AND race(specifically racial profiling). Race is definitely a part of this case in terms of the national discussion. Even though Zimmerman is not a racist, he had no reason to follow an innocent black kid, and no reason to assume that this black guy was THAT black guy(common racist fallacy that many americans fall victim to). Every black person in the country has connected w/ this case b/c of their own experiences w/ racial profiling. And now that it has this has gone on the national stage and the killer is set free, they feel disconnected w/ the American justice system, even though Zimmerman was rightfully acquitted. And racial profiling does still exist in this country(see the LAPD as perfect example).
Sure he did. He was in the neighborhood watch and thought he looked suspicious. As far as I know there's no evidence that race was a factor in that judgement call.
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On July 14 2013 14:42 ShadowDrgn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 14:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
The American Media has one goal and one goal only, too keep Americans preoccupied from actual issues. That's a bit conspiracy theory-ish. The media's goal is ratings, and things like race wars make for good ratings. Actual issues are complex, difficult to understand, and usually unconnected from people's day-to-day lives, therefore they don't garner high ratings. As a result, the media panders to the lowest common denominator of easy-to-digest, inflammatory stories that appeal to the largest numbers of people. If some people get hurt along the way because the news is fanning the flames, that's just business as usual for them.
I second this. If most Americans were interested is serious issues, PBS, Al-Jazeera, and Vice would be way more popular than Fox, CNN, and MSNBC.
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On July 14 2013 15:03 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 14:48 Beachman wrote:On July 14 2013 14:39 Sufficiency wrote:On July 14 2013 11:46 dotHead wrote:
I'm waiting on the NRA to make a statement saying, "If Treyvon Martin would have had a gun that night, he would be alive today". If Zimmerman did not have a gun that night, he would have sustained heavy, possibly permanent, injuries. If Zimmerman had stayed in his vehicle that night, none of this would have happened and both of them would be living their lives to the fullest. Yes but according to him, Martin was "suspicious". There are ample of evidence which supports this. He felt obligated, as a volunteer watchman, to do something. I am not sure what exactly he did, it could have been a "hey what are you doing here?". There is nothing wrong with that.
This is true, but as a Neighborhood Watch member, your responsibility is to report, be additional eyes and ears for law enforcement. You're not supposed to approach or attempt to arrest the "suspicious" character, that is why we have police officers.
I kinda wish this didn't receive as much national attention as it did, because Zimmerman is going to have a hard life due to peoples opinions.
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cant believe he got not guilty ... i just cant believe it
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On July 14 2013 15:29 Beachman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 15:03 Sufficiency wrote:On July 14 2013 14:48 Beachman wrote:On July 14 2013 14:39 Sufficiency wrote:On July 14 2013 11:46 dotHead wrote:
I'm waiting on the NRA to make a statement saying, "If Treyvon Martin would have had a gun that night, he would be alive today". If Zimmerman did not have a gun that night, he would have sustained heavy, possibly permanent, injuries. If Zimmerman had stayed in his vehicle that night, none of this would have happened and both of them would be living their lives to the fullest. Yes but according to him, Martin was "suspicious". There are ample of evidence which supports this. He felt obligated, as a volunteer watchman, to do something. I am not sure what exactly he did, it could have been a "hey what are you doing here?". There is nothing wrong with that. This is true, but as a Neighborhood Watch member, your responsibility is to report, be additional eyes and ears for law enforcement. You're not supposed to approach or attempt to arrest the "suspicious" character, that is why we have police officers. I kinda wish this didn't receive as much national attention as it did, because Zimmerman is going to have a hard life due to peoples opinions.
You are assuming things. He certainly did not "arrest" Martin. He probably tried to talk to him, in which Martin perceived to be something else.
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On July 14 2013 15:20 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 15:09 czylu wrote:On July 14 2013 14:50 Judicator wrote:On July 14 2013 14:42 ShadowDrgn wrote:On July 14 2013 14:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
The American Media has one goal and one goal only, too keep Americans preoccupied from actual issues. That's a bit conspiracy theory-ish. The media's goal is ratings, and things like race wars make for good ratings. Actual issues are complex, difficult to understand, and usually unconnected from people's day-to-day lives, therefore they don't garner high ratings. As a result, the media panders to the lowest common denominator of easy-to-digest, inflammatory stories that appeal to the largest numbers of people. If some people get hurt along the way because the news is fanning the flames, that's just business as usual for them. To be honest, StealthBlue was pretty on point. The relevant discussion was the responsible use of firearms, but due to the recent school shooting, the public grew "tired" of hearing about that discussion. So to keep people watching, the media effectively obscured a more relevant discussion with a completely pointless race angle. Instead of having another discussion on public policy, we get something pretty worthless. this is a discussion on public policy AND race(specifically racial profiling). Race is definitely a part of this case in terms of the national discussion. Even though Zimmerman is not a racist, he had no reason to follow an innocent black kid, and no reason to assume that this black guy was THAT black guy(common racist fallacy that many americans fall victim to). Every black person in the country has connected w/ this case b/c of their own experiences w/ racial profiling. And now that it has this has gone on the national stage and the killer is set free, they feel disconnected w/ the American justice system, even though Zimmerman was rightfully acquitted. And racial profiling does still exist in this country(see the LAPD as perfect example). Sure he did. He was in the neighborhood watch and thought he looked suspicious. As far as I know there's no evidence that race was a factor in that judgement call.
So what were the factors that made him "suspicious" then?
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On July 14 2013 15:32 Drake wrote:
cant believe he got not guilty ... i just cant believe it
...why not? (dare i ask)
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What a great day. Justice and logic won over hypocrisy.
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On July 14 2013 15:32 Drake wrote:
cant believe he got not guilty ... i just cant believe it
What part of it can you not believe?
Do you really think he's guilty of 2nd degree murder?
Or do you think he deserves jail time?
those are 2 very different thing.
Blame it on prosecution for trying to get him charged on second degree murder.
On July 14 2013 15:38 ZapRoffo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 15:20 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2013 15:09 czylu wrote:On July 14 2013 14:50 Judicator wrote:On July 14 2013 14:42 ShadowDrgn wrote:On July 14 2013 14:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
The American Media has one goal and one goal only, too keep Americans preoccupied from actual issues. That's a bit conspiracy theory-ish. The media's goal is ratings, and things like race wars make for good ratings. Actual issues are complex, difficult to understand, and usually unconnected from people's day-to-day lives, therefore they don't garner high ratings. As a result, the media panders to the lowest common denominator of easy-to-digest, inflammatory stories that appeal to the largest numbers of people. If some people get hurt along the way because the news is fanning the flames, that's just business as usual for them. To be honest, StealthBlue was pretty on point. The relevant discussion was the responsible use of firearms, but due to the recent school shooting, the public grew "tired" of hearing about that discussion. So to keep people watching, the media effectively obscured a more relevant discussion with a completely pointless race angle. Instead of having another discussion on public policy, we get something pretty worthless. this is a discussion on public policy AND race(specifically racial profiling). Race is definitely a part of this case in terms of the national discussion. Even though Zimmerman is not a racist, he had no reason to follow an innocent black kid, and no reason to assume that this black guy was THAT black guy(common racist fallacy that many americans fall victim to). Every black person in the country has connected w/ this case b/c of their own experiences w/ racial profiling. And now that it has this has gone on the national stage and the killer is set free, they feel disconnected w/ the American justice system, even though Zimmerman was rightfully acquitted. And racial profiling does still exist in this country(see the LAPD as perfect example). Sure he did. He was in the neighborhood watch and thought he looked suspicious. As far as I know there's no evidence that race was a factor in that judgement call. So what were the factors that made him "suspicious" then?
Kid in a hoody that you don't recognize walking around in a neighborhood that's been hit 8 times in a year.
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Just got off work, gotta say, I wish this were the end of it but we'll see what the morning brings.
I have a bad feeling about the potential for some "civil unrest". Glad I live rural.
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Prosecution did a very poor job.
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On July 14 2013 15:38 ZapRoffo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 15:20 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2013 15:09 czylu wrote:On July 14 2013 14:50 Judicator wrote:On July 14 2013 14:42 ShadowDrgn wrote:On July 14 2013 14:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
The American Media has one goal and one goal only, too keep Americans preoccupied from actual issues. That's a bit conspiracy theory-ish. The media's goal is ratings, and things like race wars make for good ratings. Actual issues are complex, difficult to understand, and usually unconnected from people's day-to-day lives, therefore they don't garner high ratings. As a result, the media panders to the lowest common denominator of easy-to-digest, inflammatory stories that appeal to the largest numbers of people. If some people get hurt along the way because the news is fanning the flames, that's just business as usual for them. To be honest, StealthBlue was pretty on point. The relevant discussion was the responsible use of firearms, but due to the recent school shooting, the public grew "tired" of hearing about that discussion. So to keep people watching, the media effectively obscured a more relevant discussion with a completely pointless race angle. Instead of having another discussion on public policy, we get something pretty worthless. this is a discussion on public policy AND race(specifically racial profiling). Race is definitely a part of this case in terms of the national discussion. Even though Zimmerman is not a racist, he had no reason to follow an innocent black kid, and no reason to assume that this black guy was THAT black guy(common racist fallacy that many americans fall victim to). Every black person in the country has connected w/ this case b/c of their own experiences w/ racial profiling. And now that it has this has gone on the national stage and the killer is set free, they feel disconnected w/ the American justice system, even though Zimmerman was rightfully acquitted. And racial profiling does still exist in this country(see the LAPD as perfect example). Sure he did. He was in the neighborhood watch and thought he looked suspicious. As far as I know there's no evidence that race was a factor in that judgement call. So what were the factors that made him "suspicious" then?
Walking around close to houses with his hood up, in the rain, in a neighborhood that had recently been targeted with burglary.
I'd say that's at least passable suspicious behavior.
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On July 14 2013 15:40 Fission wrote:
Prosecution did a very poor job.
Would be the understatement of the year.
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On July 14 2013 15:42 ConGee wrote:Would be the understatement of the year.
The prosecution simply didn't have enough evidence for 2nd degree manslaughter.
The lack of evidence isn't prosecutions fault.
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On July 14 2013 15:43 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 15:42 ConGee wrote:On July 14 2013 15:40 Fission wrote:
Prosecution did a very poor job. Would be the understatement of the year. The prosecution simply didn't have enough evidence for 2nd degree manslaughter. The lack of evidence isn't prosecutions fault.
Pursuing a case with a clear lack of evidence is their fault.
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On July 14 2013 15:37 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 15:29 Beachman wrote:On July 14 2013 15:03 Sufficiency wrote:On July 14 2013 14:48 Beachman wrote:On July 14 2013 14:39 Sufficiency wrote:On July 14 2013 11:46 dotHead wrote:
I'm waiting on the NRA to make a statement saying, "If Treyvon Martin would have had a gun that night, he would be alive today". If Zimmerman did not have a gun that night, he would have sustained heavy, possibly permanent, injuries. If Zimmerman had stayed in his vehicle that night, none of this would have happened and both of them would be living their lives to the fullest. Yes but according to him, Martin was "suspicious". There are ample of evidence which supports this. He felt obligated, as a volunteer watchman, to do something. I am not sure what exactly he did, it could have been a "hey what are you doing here?". There is nothing wrong with that. This is true, but as a Neighborhood Watch member, your responsibility is to report, be additional eyes and ears for law enforcement. You're not supposed to approach or attempt to arrest the "suspicious" character, that is why we have police officers. I kinda wish this didn't receive as much national attention as it did, because Zimmerman is going to have a hard life due to peoples opinions. You are assuming things. He certainly did not "arrest" Martin. He probably tried to talk to him, in which Martin perceived to be something else.
I'm sorry but did you listen to the tape of when Zimmerman called the non-emergency line? I'm also not assuming when it comes to the neighborhood watch. From their handbook and website,
"Always remember that your responsibility is to report crime. Do not take any risks to prevent a crime or try to make an arrest. The responsibility for apprehending criminals belongs to the police/sheriff."
Neighborhood Watch participants act as additional eyes and ears for law enforcement.
They do not take the law into their own hands.
http://www.nnwi.org/
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On July 14 2013 15:41 Kimaker wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 15:38 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 14 2013 15:20 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2013 15:09 czylu wrote:On July 14 2013 14:50 Judicator wrote:On July 14 2013 14:42 ShadowDrgn wrote:On July 14 2013 14:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
The American Media has one goal and one goal only, too keep Americans preoccupied from actual issues. That's a bit conspiracy theory-ish. The media's goal is ratings, and things like race wars make for good ratings. Actual issues are complex, difficult to understand, and usually unconnected from people's day-to-day lives, therefore they don't garner high ratings. As a result, the media panders to the lowest common denominator of easy-to-digest, inflammatory stories that appeal to the largest numbers of people. If some people get hurt along the way because the news is fanning the flames, that's just business as usual for them. To be honest, StealthBlue was pretty on point. The relevant discussion was the responsible use of firearms, but due to the recent school shooting, the public grew "tired" of hearing about that discussion. So to keep people watching, the media effectively obscured a more relevant discussion with a completely pointless race angle. Instead of having another discussion on public policy, we get something pretty worthless. this is a discussion on public policy AND race(specifically racial profiling). Race is definitely a part of this case in terms of the national discussion. Even though Zimmerman is not a racist, he had no reason to follow an innocent black kid, and no reason to assume that this black guy was THAT black guy(common racist fallacy that many americans fall victim to). Every black person in the country has connected w/ this case b/c of their own experiences w/ racial profiling. And now that it has this has gone on the national stage and the killer is set free, they feel disconnected w/ the American justice system, even though Zimmerman was rightfully acquitted. And racial profiling does still exist in this country(see the LAPD as perfect example). Sure he did. He was in the neighborhood watch and thought he looked suspicious. As far as I know there's no evidence that race was a factor in that judgement call. So what were the factors that made him "suspicious" then? Walking around close to houses with his hood up, in the rain, in a neighborhood that had recently been targeted with burglary. I'd say that's at least passable suspicious behavior.
OMG it's raining and someone is wearing a hood. That's so suspicious! Who does that? Wasn't this hoody thing rightfully mocked to death so long ago?
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EPT
