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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP.
If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post. |
Well, my facebook feed went full retard tonight.
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On July 14 2013 15:45 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 15:43 wei2coolman wrote:On July 14 2013 15:42 ConGee wrote:On July 14 2013 15:40 Fission wrote:
Prosecution did a very poor job. Would be the understatement of the year. The prosecution simply didn't have enough evidence for 2nd degree manslaughter. The lack of evidence isn't prosecutions fault. Pursuing a case with a clear lack of evidence is their fault.
Now this I agree with; but that's more so the media's fault than the prosecution; same applied to Casey Anthony case.
On July 14 2013 15:45 ZapRoffo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 15:41 Kimaker wrote:On July 14 2013 15:38 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 14 2013 15:20 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2013 15:09 czylu wrote:On July 14 2013 14:50 Judicator wrote:On July 14 2013 14:42 ShadowDrgn wrote:On July 14 2013 14:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
The American Media has one goal and one goal only, too keep Americans preoccupied from actual issues. That's a bit conspiracy theory-ish. The media's goal is ratings, and things like race wars make for good ratings. Actual issues are complex, difficult to understand, and usually unconnected from people's day-to-day lives, therefore they don't garner high ratings. As a result, the media panders to the lowest common denominator of easy-to-digest, inflammatory stories that appeal to the largest numbers of people. If some people get hurt along the way because the news is fanning the flames, that's just business as usual for them. To be honest, StealthBlue was pretty on point. The relevant discussion was the responsible use of firearms, but due to the recent school shooting, the public grew "tired" of hearing about that discussion. So to keep people watching, the media effectively obscured a more relevant discussion with a completely pointless race angle. Instead of having another discussion on public policy, we get something pretty worthless. this is a discussion on public policy AND race(specifically racial profiling). Race is definitely a part of this case in terms of the national discussion. Even though Zimmerman is not a racist, he had no reason to follow an innocent black kid, and no reason to assume that this black guy was THAT black guy(common racist fallacy that many americans fall victim to). Every black person in the country has connected w/ this case b/c of their own experiences w/ racial profiling. And now that it has this has gone on the national stage and the killer is set free, they feel disconnected w/ the American justice system, even though Zimmerman was rightfully acquitted. And racial profiling does still exist in this country(see the LAPD as perfect example). Sure he did. He was in the neighborhood watch and thought he looked suspicious. As far as I know there's no evidence that race was a factor in that judgement call. So what were the factors that made him "suspicious" then? Walking around close to houses with his hood up, in the rain, in a neighborhood that had recently been targeted with burglary. I'd say that's at least passable suspicious behavior. OMG it's raining and someone is wearing a hood. That's so suspicious! Who does that? Wasn't this hoody thing rightfully mocked to death so long ago?
It wasn't just the hoody; he didn't recognize the kid in his neighborhood, and thought he was acting suspicious. As a guy who has lived in pretty shady neighborhood before I know exactly what it means to see a shady character. (not that i'm condoning zimmerman's action; but the idea of seeing a "shady character" is not race specific, nor just clothing specific. There are quite a few signs that give the "shady character" vibe.
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It's quite clear who followed the trial and read up on the legal arguments and the people that just wants Zimmerman's head on a plate.
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On July 14 2013 15:45 ZapRoffo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 15:41 Kimaker wrote:On July 14 2013 15:38 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 14 2013 15:20 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2013 15:09 czylu wrote:On July 14 2013 14:50 Judicator wrote:On July 14 2013 14:42 ShadowDrgn wrote:On July 14 2013 14:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
The American Media has one goal and one goal only, too keep Americans preoccupied from actual issues. That's a bit conspiracy theory-ish. The media's goal is ratings, and things like race wars make for good ratings. Actual issues are complex, difficult to understand, and usually unconnected from people's day-to-day lives, therefore they don't garner high ratings. As a result, the media panders to the lowest common denominator of easy-to-digest, inflammatory stories that appeal to the largest numbers of people. If some people get hurt along the way because the news is fanning the flames, that's just business as usual for them. To be honest, StealthBlue was pretty on point. The relevant discussion was the responsible use of firearms, but due to the recent school shooting, the public grew "tired" of hearing about that discussion. So to keep people watching, the media effectively obscured a more relevant discussion with a completely pointless race angle. Instead of having another discussion on public policy, we get something pretty worthless. this is a discussion on public policy AND race(specifically racial profiling). Race is definitely a part of this case in terms of the national discussion. Even though Zimmerman is not a racist, he had no reason to follow an innocent black kid, and no reason to assume that this black guy was THAT black guy(common racist fallacy that many americans fall victim to). Every black person in the country has connected w/ this case b/c of their own experiences w/ racial profiling. And now that it has this has gone on the national stage and the killer is set free, they feel disconnected w/ the American justice system, even though Zimmerman was rightfully acquitted. And racial profiling does still exist in this country(see the LAPD as perfect example). Sure he did. He was in the neighborhood watch and thought he looked suspicious. As far as I know there's no evidence that race was a factor in that judgement call. So what were the factors that made him "suspicious" then? Walking around close to houses with his hood up, in the rain, in a neighborhood that had recently been targeted with burglary. I'd say that's at least passable suspicious behavior. OMG it's raining and someone is wearing a hood. That's so suspicious! Who does that? Wasn't this hoody thing rightfully mocked to death so long ago?
Go watch burglary tapes and tell me the vast majority aren't wearing hoods.
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On July 14 2013 15:45 ZapRoffo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 15:41 Kimaker wrote:On July 14 2013 15:38 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 14 2013 15:20 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2013 15:09 czylu wrote:On July 14 2013 14:50 Judicator wrote:On July 14 2013 14:42 ShadowDrgn wrote:On July 14 2013 14:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
The American Media has one goal and one goal only, too keep Americans preoccupied from actual issues. That's a bit conspiracy theory-ish. The media's goal is ratings, and things like race wars make for good ratings. Actual issues are complex, difficult to understand, and usually unconnected from people's day-to-day lives, therefore they don't garner high ratings. As a result, the media panders to the lowest common denominator of easy-to-digest, inflammatory stories that appeal to the largest numbers of people. If some people get hurt along the way because the news is fanning the flames, that's just business as usual for them. To be honest, StealthBlue was pretty on point. The relevant discussion was the responsible use of firearms, but due to the recent school shooting, the public grew "tired" of hearing about that discussion. So to keep people watching, the media effectively obscured a more relevant discussion with a completely pointless race angle. Instead of having another discussion on public policy, we get something pretty worthless. this is a discussion on public policy AND race(specifically racial profiling). Race is definitely a part of this case in terms of the national discussion. Even though Zimmerman is not a racist, he had no reason to follow an innocent black kid, and no reason to assume that this black guy was THAT black guy(common racist fallacy that many americans fall victim to). Every black person in the country has connected w/ this case b/c of their own experiences w/ racial profiling. And now that it has this has gone on the national stage and the killer is set free, they feel disconnected w/ the American justice system, even though Zimmerman was rightfully acquitted. And racial profiling does still exist in this country(see the LAPD as perfect example). Sure he did. He was in the neighborhood watch and thought he looked suspicious. As far as I know there's no evidence that race was a factor in that judgement call. So what were the factors that made him "suspicious" then? Walking around close to houses with his hood up, in the rain, in a neighborhood that had recently been targeted with burglary. I'd say that's at least passable suspicious behavior. OMG it's raining and someone is wearing a hood. That's so suspicious! Who does that? Wasn't this hoody thing rightfully mocked to death so long ago?
Hey, I didn't say it was good logic. Chill out.
You asked what made him suspicious, that was it.
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On July 14 2013 15:47 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
Well, my facebook feed went full retard tonight.
I feel ya, thankfully only half of my facebook feed went full retard, and then there was "the soooo....not guilty?" and the pro NRA guy post. In addition, two people shocked me by actually posting intelligent statuses on it.
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The law prevailed. Lynch media was stymied. A standard that was envisioned by the founders of the United States of America that a person was innocent until proven guilty was upheld today. What happened between Zimmerman and Martin is between those two and God (if you believe one exists) and as such no judgement could be made by fellow mortal jurors. The state failed to present a case without reasonable doubt that Zimmerman had not acted in self defense and he was acquitted of misconduct.
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On July 14 2013 15:29 Beachman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 15:03 Sufficiency wrote:On July 14 2013 14:48 Beachman wrote:On July 14 2013 14:39 Sufficiency wrote:On July 14 2013 11:46 dotHead wrote:
I'm waiting on the NRA to make a statement saying, "If Treyvon Martin would have had a gun that night, he would be alive today". If Zimmerman did not have a gun that night, he would have sustained heavy, possibly permanent, injuries. If Zimmerman had stayed in his vehicle that night, none of this would have happened and both of them would be living their lives to the fullest. Yes but according to him, Martin was "suspicious". There are ample of evidence which supports this. He felt obligated, as a volunteer watchman, to do something. I am not sure what exactly he did, it could have been a "hey what are you doing here?". There is nothing wrong with that. This is true, but as a Neighborhood Watch member, your responsibility is to report, be additional eyes and ears for law enforcement. You're not supposed to approach or attempt to arrest the "suspicious" character, that is why we have police officers. I kinda wish this didn't receive as much national attention as it did, because Zimmerman is going to have a hard life due to peoples opinions.
In my opinion, unknowing as it may be, I don't think this case would have been so bad in the sense of the tensions it caused if not for the media not having anything better to do. While I didn't pay attention to the Anthony trial from I don't even remember when, I do recall it stirring up a ton of attention which I didn't feel was necessary (not saying it wasn't a big deal, but I don't think it deserved to basically be national headlines throughout the entire thing), and the same basic thing happened here (both were from Florida if I remember correctly, so maybe it's a Florida thing  ). It is sad though. I read today that Zimmerman has been wearing body armor when he goes out in public, which is pretty sad. It's extraordinarily easy to find all the threats made to him on social networking sites, and as we all know, most will be empty threats, but it only takes one person being serious in the end. I suppose all I'm trying to say is that there are some ways in which the outcome of the trial didn't matter. His life is messed up now, because he'll never be able to escape this, and as many people have mentioned, most people made up their minds long before the trial, and they 100% blame him. I really hope the best for him, because not everyone will sit by, as sadistic as that is.
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On July 14 2013 15:38 ZapRoffo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 15:20 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2013 15:09 czylu wrote:On July 14 2013 14:50 Judicator wrote:On July 14 2013 14:42 ShadowDrgn wrote:On July 14 2013 14:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
The American Media has one goal and one goal only, too keep Americans preoccupied from actual issues. That's a bit conspiracy theory-ish. The media's goal is ratings, and things like race wars make for good ratings. Actual issues are complex, difficult to understand, and usually unconnected from people's day-to-day lives, therefore they don't garner high ratings. As a result, the media panders to the lowest common denominator of easy-to-digest, inflammatory stories that appeal to the largest numbers of people. If some people get hurt along the way because the news is fanning the flames, that's just business as usual for them. To be honest, StealthBlue was pretty on point. The relevant discussion was the responsible use of firearms, but due to the recent school shooting, the public grew "tired" of hearing about that discussion. So to keep people watching, the media effectively obscured a more relevant discussion with a completely pointless race angle. Instead of having another discussion on public policy, we get something pretty worthless. this is a discussion on public policy AND race(specifically racial profiling). Race is definitely a part of this case in terms of the national discussion. Even though Zimmerman is not a racist, he had no reason to follow an innocent black kid, and no reason to assume that this black guy was THAT black guy(common racist fallacy that many americans fall victim to). Every black person in the country has connected w/ this case b/c of their own experiences w/ racial profiling. And now that it has this has gone on the national stage and the killer is set free, they feel disconnected w/ the American justice system, even though Zimmerman was rightfully acquitted. And racial profiling does still exist in this country(see the LAPD as perfect example). Sure he did. He was in the neighborhood watch and thought he looked suspicious. As far as I know there's no evidence that race was a factor in that judgement call. So what were the factors that made him "suspicious" then?
I don't know what Zimmerman's testimony was, but any number of factors can make someone look suspicious. The way they dress, walk, look around, etc.
I've worked in high theft retail before and some people can get really good at picking up on tell tale signs.
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So Riot happening in, where else, Oakland.
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On July 14 2013 15:45 ZapRoffo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 15:41 Kimaker wrote:On July 14 2013 15:38 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 14 2013 15:20 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2013 15:09 czylu wrote:On July 14 2013 14:50 Judicator wrote:On July 14 2013 14:42 ShadowDrgn wrote:On July 14 2013 14:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
The American Media has one goal and one goal only, too keep Americans preoccupied from actual issues. That's a bit conspiracy theory-ish. The media's goal is ratings, and things like race wars make for good ratings. Actual issues are complex, difficult to understand, and usually unconnected from people's day-to-day lives, therefore they don't garner high ratings. As a result, the media panders to the lowest common denominator of easy-to-digest, inflammatory stories that appeal to the largest numbers of people. If some people get hurt along the way because the news is fanning the flames, that's just business as usual for them. To be honest, StealthBlue was pretty on point. The relevant discussion was the responsible use of firearms, but due to the recent school shooting, the public grew "tired" of hearing about that discussion. So to keep people watching, the media effectively obscured a more relevant discussion with a completely pointless race angle. Instead of having another discussion on public policy, we get something pretty worthless. this is a discussion on public policy AND race(specifically racial profiling). Race is definitely a part of this case in terms of the national discussion. Even though Zimmerman is not a racist, he had no reason to follow an innocent black kid, and no reason to assume that this black guy was THAT black guy(common racist fallacy that many americans fall victim to). Every black person in the country has connected w/ this case b/c of their own experiences w/ racial profiling. And now that it has this has gone on the national stage and the killer is set free, they feel disconnected w/ the American justice system, even though Zimmerman was rightfully acquitted. And racial profiling does still exist in this country(see the LAPD as perfect example). Sure he did. He was in the neighborhood watch and thought he looked suspicious. As far as I know there's no evidence that race was a factor in that judgement call. So what were the factors that made him "suspicious" then? Walking around close to houses with his hood up, in the rain, in a neighborhood that had recently been targeted with burglary. I'd say that's at least passable suspicious behavior. OMG it's raining and someone is wearing a hood. That's so suspicious! Who does that? Wasn't this hoody thing rightfully mocked to death so long ago?
Since time immemorial, hiding your face, for whatever reason be it good or bad, has been suspicious. It sucks, but it's there.
If I can't see your face, I will become more suspicious. It's a natural instinct that will never go away.
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its calm here in downtown detroit
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On July 14 2013 15:54 PassiveAce wrote:
its calm here in downtown detroit
Good to hear. Hope it stays that way, riots are fucking stupid.
Stay safe.
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On July 14 2013 15:50 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 15:38 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 14 2013 15:20 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2013 15:09 czylu wrote:On July 14 2013 14:50 Judicator wrote:On July 14 2013 14:42 ShadowDrgn wrote:On July 14 2013 14:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
The American Media has one goal and one goal only, too keep Americans preoccupied from actual issues. That's a bit conspiracy theory-ish. The media's goal is ratings, and things like race wars make for good ratings. Actual issues are complex, difficult to understand, and usually unconnected from people's day-to-day lives, therefore they don't garner high ratings. As a result, the media panders to the lowest common denominator of easy-to-digest, inflammatory stories that appeal to the largest numbers of people. If some people get hurt along the way because the news is fanning the flames, that's just business as usual for them. To be honest, StealthBlue was pretty on point. The relevant discussion was the responsible use of firearms, but due to the recent school shooting, the public grew "tired" of hearing about that discussion. So to keep people watching, the media effectively obscured a more relevant discussion with a completely pointless race angle. Instead of having another discussion on public policy, we get something pretty worthless. this is a discussion on public policy AND race(specifically racial profiling). Race is definitely a part of this case in terms of the national discussion. Even though Zimmerman is not a racist, he had no reason to follow an innocent black kid, and no reason to assume that this black guy was THAT black guy(common racist fallacy that many americans fall victim to). Every black person in the country has connected w/ this case b/c of their own experiences w/ racial profiling. And now that it has this has gone on the national stage and the killer is set free, they feel disconnected w/ the American justice system, even though Zimmerman was rightfully acquitted. And racial profiling does still exist in this country(see the LAPD as perfect example). Sure he did. He was in the neighborhood watch and thought he looked suspicious. As far as I know there's no evidence that race was a factor in that judgement call. So what were the factors that made him "suspicious" then? I don't know what Zimmerman's testimony was, but any number of factors can make someone look suspicious. The way they dress, walk, look around, etc. I've worked in high theft retail before and some people can get really good at picking up on tell tale signs.
The trouble is though, everyone is just trusting Zimmerman was actually legit at identifying suspicious, when he obviously didn't follow other normal protocols of Neighborhood Watch-ing and had called in an abnormally large number of previous "incidents".
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On July 14 2013 15:56 ZapRoffo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 15:50 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2013 15:38 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 14 2013 15:20 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2013 15:09 czylu wrote:On July 14 2013 14:50 Judicator wrote:On July 14 2013 14:42 ShadowDrgn wrote:On July 14 2013 14:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
The American Media has one goal and one goal only, too keep Americans preoccupied from actual issues. That's a bit conspiracy theory-ish. The media's goal is ratings, and things like race wars make for good ratings. Actual issues are complex, difficult to understand, and usually unconnected from people's day-to-day lives, therefore they don't garner high ratings. As a result, the media panders to the lowest common denominator of easy-to-digest, inflammatory stories that appeal to the largest numbers of people. If some people get hurt along the way because the news is fanning the flames, that's just business as usual for them. To be honest, StealthBlue was pretty on point. The relevant discussion was the responsible use of firearms, but due to the recent school shooting, the public grew "tired" of hearing about that discussion. So to keep people watching, the media effectively obscured a more relevant discussion with a completely pointless race angle. Instead of having another discussion on public policy, we get something pretty worthless. this is a discussion on public policy AND race(specifically racial profiling). Race is definitely a part of this case in terms of the national discussion. Even though Zimmerman is not a racist, he had no reason to follow an innocent black kid, and no reason to assume that this black guy was THAT black guy(common racist fallacy that many americans fall victim to). Every black person in the country has connected w/ this case b/c of their own experiences w/ racial profiling. And now that it has this has gone on the national stage and the killer is set free, they feel disconnected w/ the American justice system, even though Zimmerman was rightfully acquitted. And racial profiling does still exist in this country(see the LAPD as perfect example). Sure he did. He was in the neighborhood watch and thought he looked suspicious. As far as I know there's no evidence that race was a factor in that judgement call. So what were the factors that made him "suspicious" then? I don't know what Zimmerman's testimony was, but any number of factors can make someone look suspicious. The way they dress, walk, look around, etc. I've worked in high theft retail before and some people can get really good at picking up on tell tale signs. The trouble is though, everyone is just trusting Zimmerman was actually legit at identifying suspicious, when he obviously didn't follow other normal protocols of Neighborhood Watch-ing and had called in an abnormally large number of previous "incidents".
All that does is seemingly demonstrate he would be prone to finding people suspicious more often than the average bear.
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Well, I guess the verdict is correct. "Beyond reasonable doubt" exists for a reason, after all...
That said, he'd better get into hiding.
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On July 14 2013 15:56 ZapRoffo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 15:50 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2013 15:38 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 14 2013 15:20 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2013 15:09 czylu wrote:On July 14 2013 14:50 Judicator wrote:On July 14 2013 14:42 ShadowDrgn wrote:On July 14 2013 14:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
The American Media has one goal and one goal only, too keep Americans preoccupied from actual issues. That's a bit conspiracy theory-ish. The media's goal is ratings, and things like race wars make for good ratings. Actual issues are complex, difficult to understand, and usually unconnected from people's day-to-day lives, therefore they don't garner high ratings. As a result, the media panders to the lowest common denominator of easy-to-digest, inflammatory stories that appeal to the largest numbers of people. If some people get hurt along the way because the news is fanning the flames, that's just business as usual for them. To be honest, StealthBlue was pretty on point. The relevant discussion was the responsible use of firearms, but due to the recent school shooting, the public grew "tired" of hearing about that discussion. So to keep people watching, the media effectively obscured a more relevant discussion with a completely pointless race angle. Instead of having another discussion on public policy, we get something pretty worthless. this is a discussion on public policy AND race(specifically racial profiling). Race is definitely a part of this case in terms of the national discussion. Even though Zimmerman is not a racist, he had no reason to follow an innocent black kid, and no reason to assume that this black guy was THAT black guy(common racist fallacy that many americans fall victim to). Every black person in the country has connected w/ this case b/c of their own experiences w/ racial profiling. And now that it has this has gone on the national stage and the killer is set free, they feel disconnected w/ the American justice system, even though Zimmerman was rightfully acquitted. And racial profiling does still exist in this country(see the LAPD as perfect example). Sure he did. He was in the neighborhood watch and thought he looked suspicious. As far as I know there's no evidence that race was a factor in that judgement call. So what were the factors that made him "suspicious" then? I don't know what Zimmerman's testimony was, but any number of factors can make someone look suspicious. The way they dress, walk, look around, etc. I've worked in high theft retail before and some people can get really good at picking up on tell tale signs. The trouble is though, everyone is just trusting Zimmerman was actually legit at identifying suspicious, when he obviously didn't follow other normal protocols of Neighborhood Watch-ing and had called in an abnormally large number of previous "incidents".
Ive said this before and Ill say this again. Ive been chased and followed by random old people in my retirement community for suspicious activity. I know even that the cops have been called multiple times and have showed up occasionally. The difference between me and Martin, allegedly, is that I never initiated a physical confrontation against a person much older than me but who I could easily have disposed of.
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Could we have a poll in the OP whether or not people agree on the verdict?
Very curious about the numbers.
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EPT
