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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP.
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On July 14 2013 15:56 ZapRoffo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 15:50 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2013 15:38 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 14 2013 15:20 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2013 15:09 czylu wrote:On July 14 2013 14:50 Judicator wrote:On July 14 2013 14:42 ShadowDrgn wrote:On July 14 2013 14:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
The American Media has one goal and one goal only, too keep Americans preoccupied from actual issues. That's a bit conspiracy theory-ish. The media's goal is ratings, and things like race wars make for good ratings. Actual issues are complex, difficult to understand, and usually unconnected from people's day-to-day lives, therefore they don't garner high ratings. As a result, the media panders to the lowest common denominator of easy-to-digest, inflammatory stories that appeal to the largest numbers of people. If some people get hurt along the way because the news is fanning the flames, that's just business as usual for them. To be honest, StealthBlue was pretty on point. The relevant discussion was the responsible use of firearms, but due to the recent school shooting, the public grew "tired" of hearing about that discussion. So to keep people watching, the media effectively obscured a more relevant discussion with a completely pointless race angle. Instead of having another discussion on public policy, we get something pretty worthless. this is a discussion on public policy AND race(specifically racial profiling). Race is definitely a part of this case in terms of the national discussion. Even though Zimmerman is not a racist, he had no reason to follow an innocent black kid, and no reason to assume that this black guy was THAT black guy(common racist fallacy that many americans fall victim to). Every black person in the country has connected w/ this case b/c of their own experiences w/ racial profiling. And now that it has this has gone on the national stage and the killer is set free, they feel disconnected w/ the American justice system, even though Zimmerman was rightfully acquitted. And racial profiling does still exist in this country(see the LAPD as perfect example). Sure he did. He was in the neighborhood watch and thought he looked suspicious. As far as I know there's no evidence that race was a factor in that judgement call. So what were the factors that made him "suspicious" then? I don't know what Zimmerman's testimony was, but any number of factors can make someone look suspicious. The way they dress, walk, look around, etc. I've worked in high theft retail before and some people can get really good at picking up on tell tale signs. The trouble is though, everyone is just trusting Zimmerman was actually legit at identifying suspicious, when he obviously didn't follow other normal protocols of Neighborhood Watch-ing and had called in an abnormally large number of previous "incidents".
Following a suspicious person at a distance is not outside the normal protocols of a Neighborhood Watch.
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On July 14 2013 15:56 ZapRoffo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 15:50 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2013 15:38 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 14 2013 15:20 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2013 15:09 czylu wrote:On July 14 2013 14:50 Judicator wrote:On July 14 2013 14:42 ShadowDrgn wrote:On July 14 2013 14:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
The American Media has one goal and one goal only, too keep Americans preoccupied from actual issues. That's a bit conspiracy theory-ish. The media's goal is ratings, and things like race wars make for good ratings. Actual issues are complex, difficult to understand, and usually unconnected from people's day-to-day lives, therefore they don't garner high ratings. As a result, the media panders to the lowest common denominator of easy-to-digest, inflammatory stories that appeal to the largest numbers of people. If some people get hurt along the way because the news is fanning the flames, that's just business as usual for them. To be honest, StealthBlue was pretty on point. The relevant discussion was the responsible use of firearms, but due to the recent school shooting, the public grew "tired" of hearing about that discussion. So to keep people watching, the media effectively obscured a more relevant discussion with a completely pointless race angle. Instead of having another discussion on public policy, we get something pretty worthless. this is a discussion on public policy AND race(specifically racial profiling). Race is definitely a part of this case in terms of the national discussion. Even though Zimmerman is not a racist, he had no reason to follow an innocent black kid, and no reason to assume that this black guy was THAT black guy(common racist fallacy that many americans fall victim to). Every black person in the country has connected w/ this case b/c of their own experiences w/ racial profiling. And now that it has this has gone on the national stage and the killer is set free, they feel disconnected w/ the American justice system, even though Zimmerman was rightfully acquitted. And racial profiling does still exist in this country(see the LAPD as perfect example). Sure he did. He was in the neighborhood watch and thought he looked suspicious. As far as I know there's no evidence that race was a factor in that judgement call. So what were the factors that made him "suspicious" then? I don't know what Zimmerman's testimony was, but any number of factors can make someone look suspicious. The way they dress, walk, look around, etc. I've worked in high theft retail before and some people can get really good at picking up on tell tale signs. The trouble is though, everyone is just trusting Zimmerman was actually legit at identifying suspicious, when he obviously didn't follow other normal protocols of Neighborhood Watch-ing and had called in an abnormally large number of previous "incidents".
What do you mean by "everyone is just trusting Zimmerman"? I see very little "just trusting Zimmerman" going around.
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So what can we all learn from this?
Don't be black and don't wear a hood without having a gun.
Im glad I live in Germany. Even without guns we have enough violence.
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On July 14 2013 15:50 nvaish4 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 15:29 Beachman wrote:On July 14 2013 15:03 Sufficiency wrote:On July 14 2013 14:48 Beachman wrote:On July 14 2013 14:39 Sufficiency wrote:On July 14 2013 11:46 dotHead wrote:
I'm waiting on the NRA to make a statement saying, "If Treyvon Martin would have had a gun that night, he would be alive today". If Zimmerman did not have a gun that night, he would have sustained heavy, possibly permanent, injuries. If Zimmerman had stayed in his vehicle that night, none of this would have happened and both of them would be living their lives to the fullest. Yes but according to him, Martin was "suspicious". There are ample of evidence which supports this. He felt obligated, as a volunteer watchman, to do something. I am not sure what exactly he did, it could have been a "hey what are you doing here?". There is nothing wrong with that. This is true, but as a Neighborhood Watch member, your responsibility is to report, be additional eyes and ears for law enforcement. You're not supposed to approach or attempt to arrest the "suspicious" character, that is why we have police officers. I kinda wish this didn't receive as much national attention as it did, because Zimmerman is going to have a hard life due to peoples opinions. In my opinion, unknowing as it may be, I don't think this case would have been so bad in the sense of the tensions it caused if not for the media not having anything better to do. While I didn't pay attention to the Anthony trial from I don't even remember when, I do recall it stirring up a ton of attention which I didn't feel was necessary (not saying it wasn't a big deal, but I don't think it deserved to basically be national headlines throughout the entire thing), and the same basic thing happened here (both were from Florida if I remember correctly, so maybe it's a Florida thing  ). It is sad though. I read today that Zimmerman has been wearing body armor when he goes out in public, which is pretty sad. It's extraordinarily easy to find all the threats made to him on social networking sites, and as we all know, most will be empty threats, but it only takes one person being serious in the end. I suppose all I'm trying to say is that there are some ways in which the outcome of the trial didn't matter. His life is messed up now, because he'll never be able to escape this, and as many people have mentioned, most people made up their minds long before the trial, and they 100% blame him. I really hope the best for him, because not everyone will sit by, as sadistic as that is.
I completely agree with you. If you're a Kevin Hart fan, then you remember when he said at his mother's funeral, there's always that one person there that feels they need to avenge the love one who passed away. In this situation there are thousands of people who feel this way and it just takes that one person who is actually planning on doing it. I hate that people would even think of doing something like this, I wish they would leave the past in the past. I can see how they think they are doing right, because they are doing it to bring peace to Martins' family, but I honestly believe that his family doesn't want to see Zimmerman dead.
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On July 14 2013 15:56 ZapRoffo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 15:50 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2013 15:38 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 14 2013 15:20 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2013 15:09 czylu wrote:On July 14 2013 14:50 Judicator wrote:On July 14 2013 14:42 ShadowDrgn wrote:On July 14 2013 14:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
The American Media has one goal and one goal only, too keep Americans preoccupied from actual issues. That's a bit conspiracy theory-ish. The media's goal is ratings, and things like race wars make for good ratings. Actual issues are complex, difficult to understand, and usually unconnected from people's day-to-day lives, therefore they don't garner high ratings. As a result, the media panders to the lowest common denominator of easy-to-digest, inflammatory stories that appeal to the largest numbers of people. If some people get hurt along the way because the news is fanning the flames, that's just business as usual for them. To be honest, StealthBlue was pretty on point. The relevant discussion was the responsible use of firearms, but due to the recent school shooting, the public grew "tired" of hearing about that discussion. So to keep people watching, the media effectively obscured a more relevant discussion with a completely pointless race angle. Instead of having another discussion on public policy, we get something pretty worthless. this is a discussion on public policy AND race(specifically racial profiling). Race is definitely a part of this case in terms of the national discussion. Even though Zimmerman is not a racist, he had no reason to follow an innocent black kid, and no reason to assume that this black guy was THAT black guy(common racist fallacy that many americans fall victim to). Every black person in the country has connected w/ this case b/c of their own experiences w/ racial profiling. And now that it has this has gone on the national stage and the killer is set free, they feel disconnected w/ the American justice system, even though Zimmerman was rightfully acquitted. And racial profiling does still exist in this country(see the LAPD as perfect example). Sure he did. He was in the neighborhood watch and thought he looked suspicious. As far as I know there's no evidence that race was a factor in that judgement call. So what were the factors that made him "suspicious" then? I don't know what Zimmerman's testimony was, but any number of factors can make someone look suspicious. The way they dress, walk, look around, etc. I've worked in high theft retail before and some people can get really good at picking up on tell tale signs. The trouble is though, everyone is just trusting Zimmerman was actually legit at identifying suspicious, when he obviously didn't follow other normal protocols of Neighborhood Watch-ing and had called in an abnormally large number of previous "incidents".
Everyone was answering your question about identifying suspicious person, that doesn't mean they care. No one gives a rats ass if he was legit at it or not, it makes NO DIFFERENCE if he was following the normal protocol or not. It's not illegal to not follow protocols. Unless you prove he did something actually illegal i.e. not just choosing to follow someone, he shouldn't get guilty.
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Russian Federation3631 Posts
I think they are burning a McDonald's flag in Oakland after burning the American one
edit: apparently it was too difficult to light on fire
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On July 14 2013 16:05 xbeo wrote:
So what can we all learn from this?
Don't be black and don't wear a hood without having a gun.
Im glad I live in Germany. Even without guns we have enough violence.
What about walk away instead of resort to violence?
Nevermind, that's probably asking too much.
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On July 14 2013 15:47 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
Well, my facebook feed went full retard tonight.
This, except with my Twitter feed.
I've seen soo many people getting incredibly upset at the verdict, without paying attention at all to the trial.
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On July 14 2013 16:05 xbeo wrote:
So what can we all learn from this?
Don't be black and don't wear a hood without having a gun.
Im glad I live in Germany. Even without guns we have enough violence.
We've been over this. Zimmerman had no idea Trayvon was black when he called the police.
It was night-time, raining, and Martin had his hood up. Zimmerman even says in the 911 call that he can't tell the person's (Martin's) race.
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On July 14 2013 16:05 xbeo wrote:
So what can we all learn from this?
Don't be black and don't wear a hood without having a gun.
Im glad I live in Germany. Even without guns we have enough violence.
I'm gonna take a wild stab in the dark and say you didn't watch the trial... :\
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On July 14 2013 16:05 xbeo wrote:
So what can we all learn from this?
Don't be black and don't wear a hood without having a gun.
Im glad I live in Germany. Even without guns we have enough violence.
You've made it clear you didn't keep up with the trial.
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On July 14 2013 16:07 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 16:05 xbeo wrote:
So what can we all learn from this?
Don't be black and don't wear a hood without having a gun.
Im glad I live in Germany. Even without guns we have enough violence. We've been over this. Zimmerman had no idea Trayvon was black when he called the police. It was night-time, raining, and Martin had his hood up. Zimmerman even says in the 911 call that he can't tell the person's (Martin's) race.
Xbeo is still correct. If you kill a weapon-carrying opponent, claim he was reaching for his weapon. No other witnesses to contradict your claim on a dark night.
Beyond reasonable doubt works both ways.
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On July 14 2013 16:05 xbeo wrote:
So what can we all learn from this?
Don't be black and don't wear a hood without having a gun.
Im glad I live in Germany. Even without guns we have enough violence.
Which do you believe to be worse? Being black in the United States or being Turkish in Germany?
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On July 14 2013 16:10 acker wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 16:07 Millitron wrote:On July 14 2013 16:05 xbeo wrote:
So what can we all learn from this?
Don't be black and don't wear a hood without having a gun.
Im glad I live in Germany. Even without guns we have enough violence. We've been over this. Zimmerman had no idea Trayvon was black when he called the police. It was night-time, raining, and Martin had his hood up. Zimmerman even says in the 911 call that he can't tell the person's (Martin's) race. Xbeo is still correct. If you kill a weapon-carrying opponent, claim he was reaching for his weapon. No other witnesses to contradict your claim on a dark night. Beyond reasonable doubt works both ways.
Here we have another person who didn't follow the trial. John Good DID witness the fight, and saw Martin on top of Zimmerman, throwing blows.
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On July 14 2013 16:10 acker wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 16:07 Millitron wrote:On July 14 2013 16:05 xbeo wrote:
So what can we all learn from this?
Don't be black and don't wear a hood without having a gun.
Im glad I live in Germany. Even without guns we have enough violence. We've been over this. Zimmerman had no idea Trayvon was black when he called the police. It was night-time, raining, and Martin had his hood up. Zimmerman even says in the 911 call that he can't tell the person's (Martin's) race. Xbeo is still correct. If you kill a weapon-carrying opponent, claim he was reaching for his weapon. No other witnesses to contradict your claim on a dark night. Beyond reasonable doubt works both ways.
Thank God it doesn't work both ways in murder/criminal trials.
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On July 14 2013 16:12 Millitron wrote:
Here we have another person who didn't follow the trial. John Good DID witness the fight, and saw Martin on top of Zimmerman, throwing blows.
But would it have come to punches had Martin simply shot Zimmerman?
What's Good going to do, testify that he definitively didn't see Zimmerman twitch his hand towards his gun from fifty yards away, on a dark and rainy night? Testify that he came across a dead Zimmerman and a black dude with a gun in his hand?
On July 14 2013 16:12 sc2superfan101 wrote:
Thank God it doesn't work both ways in murder/criminal trials.
Thank God it does. Reasonable doubt is sacred for a reason. Unless you have some sort of special device that allows you to determine victim from assailant, Minority Report style...
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On July 14 2013 16:14 acker wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 16:12 Millitron wrote:
Here we have another person who didn't follow the trial. John Good DID witness the fight, and saw Martin on top of Zimmerman, throwing blows. But would it have come to punches had Martin simply shot Zimmerman? What's Good going to do, testify that he definitely didn't see Zimmerman twitch his hand towards his gun from fifty yards away? Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 16:12 sc2superfan101 wrote:
Thank God it doesn't work both ways in murder/criminal trials. Thank God it does. Reasonable doubt is sacred for a reason.
A twitch toward a gun isn't enough to provide reasonable doubt. It's not the Wild West where you have two people standing in the street at high noon, both clearly about to shoot the other. John Good would also see Martin get off the first shot.
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EPT
