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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP.
If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post. |
I'll agree with those being the reasons why it's more offensive to people, but I will also say that I don't really think pulling upon your own the shoulders the entire weight of all the ills that have been heaped upon your race historically is a very healthy thing to do, or very wise.
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No one is really arguing that cracker is worse! That is why this debate is old and not relevant to this topic. START A NEW THREAD.
This off topic debate has already happened here. Don't drag it back in!
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Its a simple concept, if you believe racial slurs are bad, and no one should use them, then it doesn't matter which one is more severe. They are both racial slurs.
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Has the trial for today (thursday) started yet?
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Its 4th of july, US independence day, there probably wont be a trial today.
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On July 04 2013 22:42 Oleo wrote:
Its 4th of july, US independence day, there probably wont be a trial today.
I figured that might be the case, but i think i noticed on the ABC site that there was a trial broadcast scheduled for today. Cant find that same page right now though for some reason.
Edit: Ok, i see now from some googling that the trial resumes on friday.
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Is there a reason why all female jury was selected? And wouldn't there be a backlash if it was all male?
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On July 04 2013 23:01 karpotoss wrote:
Is there a reason why all female jury was selected? And wouldn't there be a backlash if it was all male?
Would have had to watch Jury selection to understand.
I think an all female Jury was the best compromise they could have possibly come up with for this case. Honestly I expect a hung jury at the end of this. I think one Juror is going to side one way no matter what happens in court.
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On July 04 2013 23:01 karpotoss wrote:
Is there a reason why all female jury was selected? And wouldn't there be a backlash if it was all male?
thats how the dice fell. only by people who are ignorant of the system.
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The Zimmerman case has to be wrapped either this week or the next because the Oscar Pistorius case starts up again in August. I give the Zimmerman case another 10 days at the most for a verdict to be reached. The only way this case would take longer than that is if Zimmerman takes the stand. No chance of that happening.
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On July 05 2013 05:33 Ubiquitousdichotomy wrote:
The Zimmerman case has to be wrapped either this week or the next because the Oscar Pistorius case starts in August. Having two high profile cases being tried at the same is unprofessional and just asking for trouble. I give the Zimmerman case another 10 days at the most for a verdict to be reached. The only way this case would take longer than that is if Zimmerman takes the stand. No chance of that happening.
The Oscar Pistorius trial is in South Africa.....
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On July 05 2013 05:34 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2013 05:33 Ubiquitousdichotomy wrote:
The Zimmerman case has to be wrapped either this week or the next because the Oscar Pistorius case starts in August. Having two high profile cases being tried at the same is unprofessional and just asking for trouble. I give the Zimmerman case another 10 days at the most for a verdict to be reached. The only way this case would take longer than that is if Zimmerman takes the stand. No chance of that happening. The Oscar Pistorius trial is in South Africa.....
You haven't been keeping up. The thread has decided there is a giant media conspiracy so that these trials are perfectly timed to generate maximum sustained ratings over time, regardless of court or country.
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Pistorius? Do they even need a trial for that? Just lock him up for the rest of his life and you're done.
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On July 05 2013 05:49 Oleo wrote:
Pistorius? Do they even need a trial for that? Just lock him up for the rest of his life and you're done.
at first i was going to say "have you learned nothing from the george zimmerman trial about innocent until proven guilty" and then i saw that he shot her through the bathroom door. it should be an interesting case as to whether it was premeditated or not since prosecutor is arguing the premeditation occurred in a matter of seconds.
lets stick to trayvon though. lets see what garbage the media has posted today.
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George Zimmerman trial: Trayvon Martin's DNA not on Zimmerman's gun, DNA analyst testifies
Slain Florida teen Trayvon Martin's DNA wasn't detected on George Zimmerman's gun, a Florida Department of Law Enforcement DNA analyst testified Wednesday.
Anthony Gorgone also testified that George Zimmerman's DNA wasn't found under the teen's fingernails.
Zimmerman, a former neighborhood watch captain charged in Martin's shooting death, claims he killed the teen in self-defense during an altercation last year in a Sanford, Fla. gated community. Zimmerman said Martin slammed his head into a sidewalk and reached for his gun before he fatally shot the teen. He is charged with second-degree murder.
In court Wednesday, attorneys displayed items of clothing Zimmerman and Martin were wearing the night of the fatal altercation that Gorgone tested for DNA, including Martin's hoodie and Zimmerman's red jacket.
Gorgone said he didn't detect any DNA that wasn't Martin's on the cuffs and sleeves of Martin's hoodie.
Responding to questions from defense attorney Don West on cross-examination, Gorgone said it was possible to touch something without leaving DNA evidence.
"Sometimes you can touch an item and there won't be any DNA," West said. "Sometimes there can also be blood, but it can be wiped off."
"That's correct," Gorgone said.
On cross-examination, Gorgone told West that he detected an odor when he removed Martin's hoodie from the plastic bag it had been packaged in, likely because it had been packaged wet.
It was raining the evening of the fatal struggle. "It had a very pungent odor," Gorgone said.
Ideally, he said, clothing should be air-dried and packaged in paper bags, not in plastic as Martin's hoodie had been.
West asked whether the plastic packaging could place "biological evidence at risk of degradation."
"That's correct," Gorgone said.
Court will recess for the Fourth of July holiday Thursday and re-convene on Friday. Prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda said in court Wednesday that the state will rest their case by "Friday morning at the latest."
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57592246-504083/george-zimmerman-trial-trayvon-martins-dna-not-on-zimmermans-gun-dna-analyst-testifies/
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On July 05 2013 05:57 dAPhREAk wrote:George Zimmerman trial: Trayvon Martin's DNA not on Zimmerman's gun, DNA analyst testifies Show nested quote +Slain Florida teen Trayvon Martin's DNA wasn't detected on George Zimmerman's gun, a Florida Department of Law Enforcement DNA analyst testified Wednesday.
Anthony Gorgone also testified that George Zimmerman's DNA wasn't found under the teen's fingernails.
Zimmerman, a former neighborhood watch captain charged in Martin's shooting death, claims he killed the teen in self-defense during an altercation last year in a Sanford, Fla. gated community. Zimmerman said Martin slammed his head into a sidewalk and reached for his gun before he fatally shot the teen. He is charged with second-degree murder.
In court Wednesday, attorneys displayed items of clothing Zimmerman and Martin were wearing the night of the fatal altercation that Gorgone tested for DNA, including Martin's hoodie and Zimmerman's red jacket.
Gorgone said he didn't detect any DNA that wasn't Martin's on the cuffs and sleeves of Martin's hoodie.
Responding to questions from defense attorney Don West on cross-examination, Gorgone said it was possible to touch something without leaving DNA evidence.
"Sometimes you can touch an item and there won't be any DNA," West said. "Sometimes there can also be blood, but it can be wiped off."
"That's correct," Gorgone said.
On cross-examination, Gorgone told West that he detected an odor when he removed Martin's hoodie from the plastic bag it had been packaged in, likely because it had been packaged wet.
It was raining the evening of the fatal struggle. "It had a very pungent odor," Gorgone said.
Ideally, he said, clothing should be air-dried and packaged in paper bags, not in plastic as Martin's hoodie had been.
West asked whether the plastic packaging could place "biological evidence at risk of degradation."
"That's correct," Gorgone said.
Court will recess for the Fourth of July holiday Thursday and re-convene on Friday. Prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda said in court Wednesday that the state will rest their case by "Friday morning at the latest." http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57592246-504083/george-zimmerman-trial-trayvon-martins-dna-not-on-zimmermans-gun-dna-analyst-testifies/
So even if everything had been stored properly, who cares? Zimmerman doesn't claim Martin grabbed the gun, he claims Martin tried to grab the gun.
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On July 05 2013 08:47 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2013 05:57 dAPhREAk wrote:George Zimmerman trial: Trayvon Martin's DNA not on Zimmerman's gun, DNA analyst testifies Slain Florida teen Trayvon Martin's DNA wasn't detected on George Zimmerman's gun, a Florida Department of Law Enforcement DNA analyst testified Wednesday.
Anthony Gorgone also testified that George Zimmerman's DNA wasn't found under the teen's fingernails.
Zimmerman, a former neighborhood watch captain charged in Martin's shooting death, claims he killed the teen in self-defense during an altercation last year in a Sanford, Fla. gated community. Zimmerman said Martin slammed his head into a sidewalk and reached for his gun before he fatally shot the teen. He is charged with second-degree murder.
In court Wednesday, attorneys displayed items of clothing Zimmerman and Martin were wearing the night of the fatal altercation that Gorgone tested for DNA, including Martin's hoodie and Zimmerman's red jacket.
Gorgone said he didn't detect any DNA that wasn't Martin's on the cuffs and sleeves of Martin's hoodie.
Responding to questions from defense attorney Don West on cross-examination, Gorgone said it was possible to touch something without leaving DNA evidence.
"Sometimes you can touch an item and there won't be any DNA," West said. "Sometimes there can also be blood, but it can be wiped off."
"That's correct," Gorgone said.
On cross-examination, Gorgone told West that he detected an odor when he removed Martin's hoodie from the plastic bag it had been packaged in, likely because it had been packaged wet.
It was raining the evening of the fatal struggle. "It had a very pungent odor," Gorgone said.
Ideally, he said, clothing should be air-dried and packaged in paper bags, not in plastic as Martin's hoodie had been.
West asked whether the plastic packaging could place "biological evidence at risk of degradation."
"That's correct," Gorgone said.
Court will recess for the Fourth of July holiday Thursday and re-convene on Friday. Prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda said in court Wednesday that the state will rest their case by "Friday morning at the latest." http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57592246-504083/george-zimmerman-trial-trayvon-martins-dna-not-on-zimmermans-gun-dna-analyst-testifies/ So even if everything had been stored properly, who cares? Zimmerman doesn't claim Martin grabbed the gun, he claims Martin tried to grab the gun.
Martin's fingerprints/dna being on the weapon would have strengthened the defense's case significantly. I'm sure they care.
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On July 05 2013 08:47 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2013 05:57 dAPhREAk wrote:George Zimmerman trial: Trayvon Martin's DNA not on Zimmerman's gun, DNA analyst testifies Slain Florida teen Trayvon Martin's DNA wasn't detected on George Zimmerman's gun, a Florida Department of Law Enforcement DNA analyst testified Wednesday.
Anthony Gorgone also testified that George Zimmerman's DNA wasn't found under the teen's fingernails.
Zimmerman, a former neighborhood watch captain charged in Martin's shooting death, claims he killed the teen in self-defense during an altercation last year in a Sanford, Fla. gated community. Zimmerman said Martin slammed his head into a sidewalk and reached for his gun before he fatally shot the teen. He is charged with second-degree murder.
In court Wednesday, attorneys displayed items of clothing Zimmerman and Martin were wearing the night of the fatal altercation that Gorgone tested for DNA, including Martin's hoodie and Zimmerman's red jacket.
Gorgone said he didn't detect any DNA that wasn't Martin's on the cuffs and sleeves of Martin's hoodie.
Responding to questions from defense attorney Don West on cross-examination, Gorgone said it was possible to touch something without leaving DNA evidence.
"Sometimes you can touch an item and there won't be any DNA," West said. "Sometimes there can also be blood, but it can be wiped off."
"That's correct," Gorgone said.
On cross-examination, Gorgone told West that he detected an odor when he removed Martin's hoodie from the plastic bag it had been packaged in, likely because it had been packaged wet.
It was raining the evening of the fatal struggle. "It had a very pungent odor," Gorgone said.
Ideally, he said, clothing should be air-dried and packaged in paper bags, not in plastic as Martin's hoodie had been.
West asked whether the plastic packaging could place "biological evidence at risk of degradation."
"That's correct," Gorgone said.
Court will recess for the Fourth of July holiday Thursday and re-convene on Friday. Prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda said in court Wednesday that the state will rest their case by "Friday morning at the latest." http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57592246-504083/george-zimmerman-trial-trayvon-martins-dna-not-on-zimmermans-gun-dna-analyst-testifies/ So even if everything had been stored properly, who cares? Zimmerman doesn't claim Martin grabbed the gun, he claims Martin tried to grab the gun.
Yeah, pull that in court and see where it takes you in front of a jury that probably has negative disposition towards lawyers and towards dubious wordplay - or teenage children.
Cross-examine Zimmerman on how he can judge that Martin "tried" to grab the gun if there is indication of it? And why would anyone draw their gun against someone who is actively trying to take your gun? I remind everyone that Martin is allegedly on-top of Zimmerman at this point.
There is no evidence of struggle between Zimmerman and Martin around the gun. This indicates that Martin was shot by surprise. Martin was NOT reaching for Zimmerman's firearm! If I knew someone was drawing a weapon at me, I would do everything in my power to aim that gun away from me!
/edit
How does Zimmerman know Martin is capable of using a firearm? Because Martin is a black? How many white kids who do drugs know how to toggle the 'safety' on a weapon and fire it in a tense struggle?
Martin is also innocent until proven guilty. Zimmerman alleges that Martin committed Attempted Murder here. Yes, Martin isn't squeaky clean, but who is? That doesn't automatically make us into cold, hard killer. What it it takes to be a killer is to be afraid enough of black kids wearing hoodies, and stupid enough to go Rambo with no back-up.
Just to be clear, I am only arguing that Zimmerman lied around the circumstance of Martin's shooting.
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On July 05 2013 08:59 plogamer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2013 08:47 Millitron wrote:On July 05 2013 05:57 dAPhREAk wrote:George Zimmerman trial: Trayvon Martin's DNA not on Zimmerman's gun, DNA analyst testifies Slain Florida teen Trayvon Martin's DNA wasn't detected on George Zimmerman's gun, a Florida Department of Law Enforcement DNA analyst testified Wednesday.
Anthony Gorgone also testified that George Zimmerman's DNA wasn't found under the teen's fingernails.
Zimmerman, a former neighborhood watch captain charged in Martin's shooting death, claims he killed the teen in self-defense during an altercation last year in a Sanford, Fla. gated community. Zimmerman said Martin slammed his head into a sidewalk and reached for his gun before he fatally shot the teen. He is charged with second-degree murder.
In court Wednesday, attorneys displayed items of clothing Zimmerman and Martin were wearing the night of the fatal altercation that Gorgone tested for DNA, including Martin's hoodie and Zimmerman's red jacket.
Gorgone said he didn't detect any DNA that wasn't Martin's on the cuffs and sleeves of Martin's hoodie.
Responding to questions from defense attorney Don West on cross-examination, Gorgone said it was possible to touch something without leaving DNA evidence.
"Sometimes you can touch an item and there won't be any DNA," West said. "Sometimes there can also be blood, but it can be wiped off."
"That's correct," Gorgone said.
On cross-examination, Gorgone told West that he detected an odor when he removed Martin's hoodie from the plastic bag it had been packaged in, likely because it had been packaged wet.
It was raining the evening of the fatal struggle. "It had a very pungent odor," Gorgone said.
Ideally, he said, clothing should be air-dried and packaged in paper bags, not in plastic as Martin's hoodie had been.
West asked whether the plastic packaging could place "biological evidence at risk of degradation."
"That's correct," Gorgone said.
Court will recess for the Fourth of July holiday Thursday and re-convene on Friday. Prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda said in court Wednesday that the state will rest their case by "Friday morning at the latest." http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57592246-504083/george-zimmerman-trial-trayvon-martins-dna-not-on-zimmermans-gun-dna-analyst-testifies/ So even if everything had been stored properly, who cares? Zimmerman doesn't claim Martin grabbed the gun, he claims Martin tried to grab the gun. Yeah, pull that in court and see where it takes you in front of a jury that probably has negative disposition towards lawyers and towards dubious wordplay - or teenage children. Cross-examine Zimmerman on how he can judge that Martin "tried" to grab the gun if there is indication of it? And why would anyone draw their gun against someone who is actively trying to take your gun? I remind everyone that Martin is allegedly on-top of Zimmerman at this point. There is no evidence of struggle between Zimmerman and Martin around the gun. This indicates that Martin was shot by surprise. Martin was NOT reaching for Zimmerman's firearm! If I knew someone was drawing a weapon at me, I would do everything in my power to aim that gun away from me!
thats a weird analysis. zimmerman doesnt have to prove anything; just put doubt in the jury's mind about trayvon reaching for the gun, which he has done. showing that trayvon's dna was not on the gun proves that trayvon's dna was not on the gun. it doesnt prove that trayvon was not "reaching" for the gun as alleged. (note, the friend who said zimmerman said he actually grabbed it though). also, its weird that you would say that zimmerman would not point the gun at trayvon. trayvon was on top and beating on him. allegedly he reached for the gun, zimmerman i would think would not try to get the gun away from trayvon, he would try to use it (i.e., point it at trayvon).
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On July 05 2013 09:13 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2013 08:59 plogamer wrote:On July 05 2013 08:47 Millitron wrote:On July 05 2013 05:57 dAPhREAk wrote:George Zimmerman trial: Trayvon Martin's DNA not on Zimmerman's gun, DNA analyst testifies Slain Florida teen Trayvon Martin's DNA wasn't detected on George Zimmerman's gun, a Florida Department of Law Enforcement DNA analyst testified Wednesday.
Anthony Gorgone also testified that George Zimmerman's DNA wasn't found under the teen's fingernails.
Zimmerman, a former neighborhood watch captain charged in Martin's shooting death, claims he killed the teen in self-defense during an altercation last year in a Sanford, Fla. gated community. Zimmerman said Martin slammed his head into a sidewalk and reached for his gun before he fatally shot the teen. He is charged with second-degree murder.
In court Wednesday, attorneys displayed items of clothing Zimmerman and Martin were wearing the night of the fatal altercation that Gorgone tested for DNA, including Martin's hoodie and Zimmerman's red jacket.
Gorgone said he didn't detect any DNA that wasn't Martin's on the cuffs and sleeves of Martin's hoodie.
Responding to questions from defense attorney Don West on cross-examination, Gorgone said it was possible to touch something without leaving DNA evidence.
"Sometimes you can touch an item and there won't be any DNA," West said. "Sometimes there can also be blood, but it can be wiped off."
"That's correct," Gorgone said.
On cross-examination, Gorgone told West that he detected an odor when he removed Martin's hoodie from the plastic bag it had been packaged in, likely because it had been packaged wet.
It was raining the evening of the fatal struggle. "It had a very pungent odor," Gorgone said.
Ideally, he said, clothing should be air-dried and packaged in paper bags, not in plastic as Martin's hoodie had been.
West asked whether the plastic packaging could place "biological evidence at risk of degradation."
"That's correct," Gorgone said.
Court will recess for the Fourth of July holiday Thursday and re-convene on Friday. Prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda said in court Wednesday that the state will rest their case by "Friday morning at the latest." http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57592246-504083/george-zimmerman-trial-trayvon-martins-dna-not-on-zimmermans-gun-dna-analyst-testifies/ So even if everything had been stored properly, who cares? Zimmerman doesn't claim Martin grabbed the gun, he claims Martin tried to grab the gun. Yeah, pull that in court and see where it takes you in front of a jury that probably has negative disposition towards lawyers and towards dubious wordplay - or teenage children. Cross-examine Zimmerman on how he can judge that Martin "tried" to grab the gun if there is indication of it? And why would anyone draw their gun against someone who is actively trying to take your gun? I remind everyone that Martin is allegedly on-top of Zimmerman at this point. There is no evidence of struggle between Zimmerman and Martin around the gun. This indicates that Martin was shot by surprise. Martin was NOT reaching for Zimmerman's firearm! If I knew someone was drawing a weapon at me, I would do everything in my power to aim that gun away from me! thats a weird analysis. zimmerman doesnt have to prove anything; just put doubt in the jury's mind about trayvon reaching for the gun, which he has done. showing that trayvon's dna was not on the gun proves that trayvon's dna was not on the gun. it doesnt prove that trayvon was not "reaching" for the gun as alleged. (note, the friend who said zimmerman said he actually grabbed it though). also, its weird that you would say that zimmerman would not point the gun at trayvon. trayvon was on top and beating on him. allegedly he reached for the gun, zimmerman i would think would not try to get the gun away from trayvon, he would try to use it (i.e., point it at trayvon).
Someone is on top of you, beating you silly. Then, while he has the advantage in the fight, and has no motive to actually murder you, suddenly goes for the gun strapped in your belt. (This part is weird, why? Why risk a murder charge and go into prison when you're already taking care of the guy?)
Then, rather than actively try to prevent the attacker from reaching the gun, you successfully draw it from prone position and shoot the person on to you? What is this, a Cowboy flick?
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EPT
