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Shooting of Trayvon Martin - Page 197

Forum Index > General Forum
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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP.

If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
June 28 2013 20:45 GMT
#3921
This is basically the same testimony that I'll be eliciting two weeks from now at a trial. About as dry as dirt.
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
June 28 2013 20:46 GMT
#3922
On June 29 2013 05:43 AdamBanks wrote:
Hey phreak you know anything about the use of force in the states? im under the impression that in canada your not allowed to escalate the level of force? Like if im in a fist fight im not allowed to haul out a gun and blast someone because ive elevated the use of force? I dunno any law, so maybe im wrong, how does this work in the states? any ideas? o.o

generally, you are not allowed to escalate the level of force (you cant bring a gun to a fist fight is a common saying). however, generally, you are allowed to use a gun to protect yourself from an imminent threat of serious bodily harm and/or death. so, if a fist fight turns into a life or death struggle (e.g., you reasonably fear that another punch will cause your death) then everything is fair game pretty much at that point. these are general rules; the devil is in the details.

jury instructions:

A person is justified in using deadly force if [he] [she] reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent
1. imminent death or great bodily harm to [himself] [herself] or another, or
2. the imminent commission of (applicable forcible felony) against [himself] [herself] or another.

However, the use of deadly force is not justifiable if you find:
1. (Defendant) was attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of (applicable forcible felony); or
2. (Defendant) initially provoked the use of force against [himself] [herself], unless:
a. The force asserted toward the defendant was so great that [he] [she] reasonably believed that [he] [she] was in imminent danger of death or great 63 bodily harm and had exhausted every reasonable means to escape the danger, other than using deadly force on (assailant).
b. In good faith, the defendant withdrew from physical contact with (assailant) and clearly indicated to (assailant) that [he] [she] wanted to withdraw and stop the use of deadly force, but (assailant) continued or resumed the use of force.

In deciding whether defendant was justified in the use of deadly force, you must judge [him] [her] by the circumstances by which [he] [she] was surrounded at the time the force was used. The danger facing the defendant need not have been actual; however, to justify the use of deadly force, the appearance of danger must have been so real that a reasonably cautious and prudent person under the same circumstances would have believed that the danger could be avoided only through the use of that force. Based upon appearances, the defendant must have actually believed that the danger was real.

If the defendant [was not engaged in an unlawful activity and] was attacked in any place where [he] [she] had a right to be, [he] [she] had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand [his] [her] ground and meet force with force, including deadly force, if [he] [she] reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to [himself] [herself] [another] or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

In considering the issue of self-defense, you may take into account the relative physical abilities and capacities of the defendant and (victim).

If in your consideration of the issue of self-defense you have a reasonable doubt on the question of whether the defendant was justified in the use of deadly force, you should find the defendant not guilty.
However, if from the evidence you are convinced that the defendant was not justified in the use of deadly force, you should find [him] [her] guilty if all the elements of the charge have been proved.
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
June 28 2013 20:46 GMT
#3923
On June 29 2013 05:44 Felnarion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2013 05:41 Millitron wrote:
watching it on and off on CNN. I think its hilarious they asked the physician about Zman's MMA practice because some witness said it looked like MMA.

As if that means anything:

1) Anyone throwing punches at a down person would "look like MMA"
2) how is this witness qualified to determine what is and isn't MMA?

Comedy gold right there.


The goal is to get Z's MMA practice associated with the "MMA style" of the blows being thrown.


Holds no water with me when you have a witness explicitly saying that the person on top doing the MMA stuff was in fact Trayvon and not Zimmerman. Are we supposed to believe that because Zimmerman took some classes that in a real life situation he was supposed to be skilled enough to defuse the fight and not be forced to shoot Trayvon?
Chylo
Profile Joined May 2010
United States220 Posts
June 28 2013 20:49 GMT
#3924
Lol, Zimmerman obese
HotGlueGun
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1409 Posts
June 28 2013 20:50 GMT
#3925
Obese lol #burn
Don't hoot with the Owls at night if you cant soar with the Eagles at dawn.
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
June 28 2013 20:50 GMT
#3926
did they ask about zimmerman's MMA in front of the jury, or was the jury out?
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
June 28 2013 20:51 GMT
#3927
Didn't the defense say in the opening statement that Zimmerman's gym trainer, or somebody like that, said that Zimmerman was terrible in class and that he wouldn't let him do major fights? I remember hearing something like that. If this becomes an issue we could see that witness called, if we weren't going to already.
Dosey
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4505 Posts
June 28 2013 20:55 GMT
#3928
Man this lawyer is just mean. Getting the doctor to call Zimmerman fat and butthurt.
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
June 28 2013 20:56 GMT
#3929
"likely broken"
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
June 28 2013 20:57 GMT
#3930
Wait.. am I hearing this right or did the prosecution witness just say that Zimmerman asked for medicine concerning pain in his lower back/butt? On top of the fact he had facial bruising and it appeared to her as if his nose was possibly broken at the time? I didn't see the beginning of her testimony but it seems like another witness doing no favors for the prosecution.
HotGlueGun
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1409 Posts
June 28 2013 20:59 GMT
#3931
On June 29 2013 05:55 Dosey wrote:
Man this lawyer is just mean. Getting the doctor to call Zimmerman fat and butthurt.


And constipated lol
Don't hoot with the Owls at night if you cant soar with the Eagles at dawn.
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
June 28 2013 21:00 GMT
#3932
@farvacola

scalp laceration bleeds significantly more. -- witness
Kaitlin
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2958 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-28 21:00:54
June 28 2013 21:00 GMT
#3933
On June 29 2013 05:57 On_Slaught wrote:
Wait.. am I hearing this right or did the prosecution witness just say that Zimmerman asked for medicine concerning pain in his lower back/butt? On top of the fact he had facial bruising and it appeared to her as if his nose was possibly broken at the time? I didn't see the beginning of her testimony but it seems like another witness doing no favors for the prosecution.


One of the prosecutors asked the earlier cop if Zimmerman was erect. I didn't seize on that at the time...
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
June 28 2013 21:01 GMT
#3934
Really cute aide for the defense.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
June 28 2013 21:02 GMT
#3935
So the prosecution is so desperate they are now attacking his medical history/character?
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
June 28 2013 21:03 GMT
#3936
On June 29 2013 06:02 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
So the prosecution is so desperate they are now attacking his medical history/character?

Well, to show that the force was unreasonable, the State has to minimize the injuries that Zimmerman sustained.
HotGlueGun
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1409 Posts
June 28 2013 21:05 GMT
#3937
On June 29 2013 06:02 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
So the prosecution is so desperate they are now attacking his medical history/character?


I think they are trying to show that he wasn't very injured/TM wasn't hurting him much.
Don't hoot with the Owls at night if you cant soar with the Eagles at dawn.
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
June 28 2013 21:05 GMT
#3938
this witness looks young and inexperienced, but she knows her shit and presents well.
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-28 21:06:43
June 28 2013 21:06 GMT
#3939
I really like what the defense attny is doing with this cross. Focusing on the fact she saw him a day later and that he looked much worse immediately after the fact. Considering he looked bad even the next day just hurts the prosecution more. Sad objection by the prosecution too. That's a "crap this is hurting my case" obj. The problem is if you do this too many times it makes it look like you are hiding things and it just draws attention to important facts if you lose the obj.
SKC
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil18828 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-28 21:10:38
June 28 2013 21:09 GMT
#3940
On June 29 2013 06:06 On_Slaught wrote:
I really like what the defense attny is doing with this cross. Focusing on the fact she saw him a day later and that he looked much worse immediately after the fact. Considering he looked bad even the next day just hurts the prosecution more. Sad objection by the prosecution too. That's a "crap this is hurting my case" obj. The problem is if you do this too many times it makes it look like you are hiding things and it just draws attention to important facts if you lose the obj.

Well, in theory every objection is "crap that is hurting their case". The same way the defense objected to the full medical report being released. Hiding information is the job of both sides and the objecting would be far less important if it didn't harm their case.

It looks bad when everyone ends up knowing the information they are trying to hide.
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