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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP.
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On June 28 2013 03:32 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 03:30 ranshaked wrote:On June 28 2013 03:27 -Kaiser- wrote:On June 28 2013 03:24 ranshaked wrote:On June 28 2013 03:23 czylu wrote:On June 28 2013 03:18 ranshaked wrote:On June 28 2013 03:15 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 28 2013 03:04 ranshaked wrote:On June 28 2013 03:00 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 28 2013 02:58 ranshaked wrote:
[quote]No. I told them to quit being rude to the lady behind me. They didn't like what I said, and started throwing punches.
What is considered instigating? To me, the first person to throw a punch is the instigator, regardless of what chit chat went on before.
You: "I don't like your personality" Him: Throws a punchYou: Shoots HimSome people find that line of logic problematic. So what am I supposed to do? Take the punch and do nothing about it? The entire point of having a gun is to protect yourself. If someone punches me, and I have a weapon on me to protect myself, you bet I'm going to use it. You feel threatened, pull out your gun He feels threatened, pulls out his gun Shooting occurs. Sounds smart. If they had a gun, they would have shot me far before beating me up, and allowing me to get to my gun. It would be irrevelant. which is exactly why bringing a gun to fist fight is murder. I'm not trying to FIGHT anyone. I don't want to fucking fight anyone, which is the entire point of having a gun. If someone attacks me, I'm going to use it because I don't want to fight. I shouldn't have to fight. We're getting into the question of whether lethal force is an appropriate defense to non-lethal force. Isn't that what the trial was supposed to be about before the state pressed murder 2 against him? At what point does lethal force become appropriate against non-lethal force? What defines non-lethal force? What if Trayvon had been a professional martial artist, but Zimmerman didn't know this? Does it matter? Well, if you get punched once and fall--is that valid reason to shoot someone in the chest? After you follow him At night After he already ran from you
Sure, why not? If he's going to continue to beat on me, what is his intent at this point? I'm already on the ground, and out of the fight. If you continue at me, then I believe I have the right to use lethal force to protect myself.
Following someone isn't illegal. Punching someone is.
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On June 28 2013 03:33 fifasnipe2224 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 03:32 PanN wrote:On June 28 2013 03:31 fifasnipe2224 wrote:
Really? Getting knocked down is a fair cause for a firearm? If you got hit to the ground and that same person that hit you is getting ready to continuously hit you then yes, most fucking definitely. How can you be sure that 'same person that hit you is getting ready to continuously hit you'?
I shouldn't even bother responding to you.
"verbal argument occurred, in which Trayvon strikes Zimmerman. When that happens, Zimmerman falls to the ground, and when Trayvon tries to get on top of him to complete the fight, Zimmerman pulls his gun and shoots him in the chest."
In the exact scenario that you had a problem with, it states that he tries to go on top of him to complete the fight. I'm merely talking about that type of scenario.
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On June 28 2013 03:33 fifasnipe2224 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 03:32 PanN wrote:On June 28 2013 03:31 fifasnipe2224 wrote:
Really? Getting knocked down is a fair cause for a firearm? If you got hit to the ground and that same person that hit you is getting ready to continuously hit you then yes, most fucking definitely. How can you be sure that 'same person that hit you is getting ready to continuously hit you'?
Why would you believe he wouldn't continue to harm you?
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On June 28 2013 03:35 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 03:33 fifasnipe2224 wrote:On June 28 2013 03:32 PanN wrote:On June 28 2013 03:31 fifasnipe2224 wrote:
Really? Getting knocked down is a fair cause for a firearm? If you got hit to the ground and that same person that hit you is getting ready to continuously hit you then yes, most fucking definitely. How can you be sure that 'same person that hit you is getting ready to continuously hit you'? I shouldn't even bother responding to you. "verbal argument occurred, in which Trayvon strikes Zimmerman. When that happens, Zimmerman falls to the ground, and when Trayvon tries to get on top of him to complete the fight, Zimmerman pulls his gun and shoots him in the chest." In the exact scenario that you had a problem with, it states that he tries to go on top of him to complete the fight. I'm merely talking about that type of scenario.
I wonder sometimes if anyone has ever been in a serious fight, which led to them being near death in a hospital? Personally, I've been in a few fights that left me in a hospital. I don't know if people actually understand how dangerous a persons' fist/intent can be.
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On June 28 2013 03:27 xDaunt wrote:
This guy is remarkably well-coached. I wonder why he is so important.
just curious, is this just from experience? How could you tell so quickly he was well-coached.
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On June 28 2013 03:37 ranshaked wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 03:35 PanN wrote:On June 28 2013 03:33 fifasnipe2224 wrote:On June 28 2013 03:32 PanN wrote:On June 28 2013 03:31 fifasnipe2224 wrote:
Really? Getting knocked down is a fair cause for a firearm? If you got hit to the ground and that same person that hit you is getting ready to continuously hit you then yes, most fucking definitely. How can you be sure that 'same person that hit you is getting ready to continuously hit you'? I shouldn't even bother responding to you. "verbal argument occurred, in which Trayvon strikes Zimmerman. When that happens, Zimmerman falls to the ground, and when Trayvon tries to get on top of him to complete the fight, Zimmerman pulls his gun and shoots him in the chest." In the exact scenario that you had a problem with, it states that he tries to go on top of him to complete the fight. I'm merely talking about that type of scenario. I wonder sometimes if anyone has ever been in a serious fight, which led to them being near death in a hospital? Personally, I've been in a few fights that left me in a hospital. I don't know if people actually understand how dangerous a persons' fist/intent can be.
Not nearly as dangerous as you with a gun, as you would shot a few people already.
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Getting punched in the face or suffering any other blow to the head is a really big deal. It doesn't take much to cause some degree of permanent brain damage.
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On June 28 2013 03:39 czylu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 03:27 xDaunt wrote:
This guy is remarkably well-coached. I wonder why he is so important. just curious, is this just from experience? How could you tell so quickly he was well-coached.
Well, it's clear based on the quickness and acuity of his answers that he is at least familiar with the witness stand. There is no mumbling, no backtracking, just simple, plain responses given in a timely manner. It is worth mentioning that this guy works for T-Mobile, and likely has experience with testifying in regards to phone records.
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On June 28 2013 03:37 ranshaked wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 03:35 PanN wrote:On June 28 2013 03:33 fifasnipe2224 wrote:On June 28 2013 03:32 PanN wrote:On June 28 2013 03:31 fifasnipe2224 wrote:
Really? Getting knocked down is a fair cause for a firearm? If you got hit to the ground and that same person that hit you is getting ready to continuously hit you then yes, most fucking definitely. How can you be sure that 'same person that hit you is getting ready to continuously hit you'? I shouldn't even bother responding to you. "verbal argument occurred, in which Trayvon strikes Zimmerman. When that happens, Zimmerman falls to the ground, and when Trayvon tries to get on top of him to complete the fight, Zimmerman pulls his gun and shoots him in the chest." In the exact scenario that you had a problem with, it states that he tries to go on top of him to complete the fight. I'm merely talking about that type of scenario. I wonder sometimes if anyone has ever been in a serious fight, which led to them being near death in a hospital? Personally, I've been in a few fights that left me in a hospital. I don't know if people actually understand how dangerous a persons' fist/intent can be.
The very fact that people are still saying "its just fists" shines an incredible amount of light on the ignorance around fighting. Fighting is incredibly dangerous, street fights are just that much more.
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On June 28 2013 03:39 czylu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 03:27 xDaunt wrote:
This guy is remarkably well-coached. I wonder why he is so important. just curious, is this just from experience? How could you tell so quickly he was well-coached.
When he was giving his answers at the outset, he was talking to the jury instead of the examiner. He's doing that less now that he is focusing on the document being displayed.
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On June 28 2013 03:39 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 03:37 ranshaked wrote:On June 28 2013 03:35 PanN wrote:On June 28 2013 03:33 fifasnipe2224 wrote:On June 28 2013 03:32 PanN wrote:On June 28 2013 03:31 fifasnipe2224 wrote:
Really? Getting knocked down is a fair cause for a firearm? If you got hit to the ground and that same person that hit you is getting ready to continuously hit you then yes, most fucking definitely. How can you be sure that 'same person that hit you is getting ready to continuously hit you'? I shouldn't even bother responding to you. "verbal argument occurred, in which Trayvon strikes Zimmerman. When that happens, Zimmerman falls to the ground, and when Trayvon tries to get on top of him to complete the fight, Zimmerman pulls his gun and shoots him in the chest." In the exact scenario that you had a problem with, it states that he tries to go on top of him to complete the fight. I'm merely talking about that type of scenario. I wonder sometimes if anyone has ever been in a serious fight, which led to them being near death in a hospital? Personally, I've been in a few fights that left me in a hospital. I don't know if people actually understand how dangerous a persons' fist/intent can be. Not nearly as dangerous as you with a gun, as you would shot a few people already.
How would I be more dangerous? I'm not out there starting fights, I'm not out there to cause violence. I would simply defend myself.
If you start a fight with the intent to harm someone, then you deserve to be shot. I wish I had a gun one night I was jumped. It would have stopped a ton more shit from happening, a ton more crime etc. Have you ever been around the latin kings or the bloods? They aren't very nice people to strangers.
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My main issue is if someone want attack me with out a weapon (someone younger and lighter) I think its a bit hasty to pull out a firearm simply due to the fact that he was able to knock me down.
I would wait until I felt my life was truly in danger until I tried to take theirs away.
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I have to ask and I'm sure the answer is obvious but:
+ Show Spoiler +
Why are they still labeling Zimmerman as White/
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On June 28 2013 03:43 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:I have to ask and I'm sure the answer is obvious but: + Show Spoiler +
Why are they still labeling Zimmerman as White/
Because that is the narrative that a lot of the media has spun. Racist white man murders innocent black child in cold blood.
Hey, it worked.
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On June 28 2013 03:42 ranshaked wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 03:39 ragz_gt wrote:On June 28 2013 03:37 ranshaked wrote:On June 28 2013 03:35 PanN wrote:On June 28 2013 03:33 fifasnipe2224 wrote:On June 28 2013 03:32 PanN wrote:On June 28 2013 03:31 fifasnipe2224 wrote:
Really? Getting knocked down is a fair cause for a firearm? If you got hit to the ground and that same person that hit you is getting ready to continuously hit you then yes, most fucking definitely. How can you be sure that 'same person that hit you is getting ready to continuously hit you'? I shouldn't even bother responding to you. "verbal argument occurred, in which Trayvon strikes Zimmerman. When that happens, Zimmerman falls to the ground, and when Trayvon tries to get on top of him to complete the fight, Zimmerman pulls his gun and shoots him in the chest." In the exact scenario that you had a problem with, it states that he tries to go on top of him to complete the fight. I'm merely talking about that type of scenario. I wonder sometimes if anyone has ever been in a serious fight, which led to them being near death in a hospital? Personally, I've been in a few fights that left me in a hospital. I don't know if people actually understand how dangerous a persons' fist/intent can be. Not nearly as dangerous as you with a gun, as you would shot a few people already. How would I be more dangerous? I'm not out there starting fights, I'm not out there to cause violence. I would simply defend myself. If you start a fight with the intent to harm someone, then you deserve to be shot. I wish I had a gun one night I was jumped. It would have stopped a ton more shit from happening, a ton more crime etc. Have you ever been around the latin kings or the bloods? They aren't very nice people to strangers.
The fact that you without gun, no one dead or serious injured, you with gun, multiple people would be dead or seriously injured suggest that you with gun is more dangerous, no matter what your intentions are.
You mentioning "deserve to be shot" has nothing to do with self defense, in fact, it suggest that it's NOT about self defense but revenge and vigilante.
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Is it just me or does this cross of the T-mobile guy seem incredibly bush league? With that I mean the gestures and body language of the defence guy.
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On June 28 2013 03:47 Fildun wrote:
Is it just me or does this cross of the T-mobile guy seem incredibly bush league? With that I mean the gestures and body language of the defence guy.
That's just that attorney's style. There really isn't a "proper" form for trial presentation. In fact, the best trial advocacy schools teach attorneys to just be themselves.
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On June 28 2013 03:45 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 03:42 ranshaked wrote:On June 28 2013 03:39 ragz_gt wrote:On June 28 2013 03:37 ranshaked wrote:On June 28 2013 03:35 PanN wrote:On June 28 2013 03:33 fifasnipe2224 wrote:On June 28 2013 03:32 PanN wrote:On June 28 2013 03:31 fifasnipe2224 wrote:
Really? Getting knocked down is a fair cause for a firearm? If you got hit to the ground and that same person that hit you is getting ready to continuously hit you then yes, most fucking definitely. How can you be sure that 'same person that hit you is getting ready to continuously hit you'? I shouldn't even bother responding to you. "verbal argument occurred, in which Trayvon strikes Zimmerman. When that happens, Zimmerman falls to the ground, and when Trayvon tries to get on top of him to complete the fight, Zimmerman pulls his gun and shoots him in the chest." In the exact scenario that you had a problem with, it states that he tries to go on top of him to complete the fight. I'm merely talking about that type of scenario. I wonder sometimes if anyone has ever been in a serious fight, which led to them being near death in a hospital? Personally, I've been in a few fights that left me in a hospital. I don't know if people actually understand how dangerous a persons' fist/intent can be. Not nearly as dangerous as you with a gun, as you would shot a few people already. How would I be more dangerous? I'm not out there starting fights, I'm not out there to cause violence. I would simply defend myself. If you start a fight with the intent to harm someone, then you deserve to be shot. I wish I had a gun one night I was jumped. It would have stopped a ton more shit from happening, a ton more crime etc. Have you ever been around the latin kings or the bloods? They aren't very nice people to strangers. The fact that you without gun, no one dead or serious injured, you with gun, multiple people would be dead or seriously injured suggest that you with gun is more dangerous, no matter what your intentions are.
It doesn't matter that I wasn't permanently injured. I was rushed to a hospital and they thought I had fractured my orbital severely. If you saw me that night, you would think I was seriously injured.
If you are seriously injured, then you won't be able to ever use the gun. By your logic, a person will never be able to use their firearm because they will be incapacitated by the time they are ALLOWED to. I seriously don't think you have ever been around gangs or jumped/mugged.
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Let me be more clear about this "Get off" usage.
Immediately after returning from the lunch break, the defense, outside the presence of the jury, played a recording of the 4/2/2012 interview with Delarionda (sp?), but for the purpose of focusing on her comment "You want that too?", as in prosecution was perhaps manufacturing evidence. That whole question aside, during the excerpt of the recording, played for that other purpose, the recording of Rachel proceeded as follows:
R: When he was at the um, the mail thing,
D: Yeah...
R: the man was on the phone.
D: Right...
R: and that's when he was telling me.
D: I'm sorry, what, what ?
R: He was telling me the man was on the phone. He put his hoodie on.
D: Right...
R: So the man was like still in the car. Then Trayvon started walkin', and he said "I think the man got off" for some reason.
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The only southerner who talks faster than De la Rionda may be James Carville.
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EPT
