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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP.
If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post. |
On June 28 2013 03:49 ranshaked wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 03:45 ragz_gt wrote:On June 28 2013 03:42 ranshaked wrote:On June 28 2013 03:39 ragz_gt wrote:On June 28 2013 03:37 ranshaked wrote:On June 28 2013 03:35 PanN wrote:On June 28 2013 03:33 fifasnipe2224 wrote:On June 28 2013 03:32 PanN wrote:On June 28 2013 03:31 fifasnipe2224 wrote:
Really? Getting knocked down is a fair cause for a firearm? If you got hit to the ground and that same person that hit you is getting ready to continuously hit you then yes, most fucking definitely. How can you be sure that 'same person that hit you is getting ready to continuously hit you'? I shouldn't even bother responding to you. "verbal argument occurred, in which Trayvon strikes Zimmerman. When that happens, Zimmerman falls to the ground, and when Trayvon tries to get on top of him to complete the fight, Zimmerman pulls his gun and shoots him in the chest." In the exact scenario that you had a problem with, it states that he tries to go on top of him to complete the fight. I'm merely talking about that type of scenario. I wonder sometimes if anyone has ever been in a serious fight, which led to them being near death in a hospital? Personally, I've been in a few fights that left me in a hospital. I don't know if people actually understand how dangerous a persons' fist/intent can be. Not nearly as dangerous as you with a gun, as you would shot a few people already. How would I be more dangerous? I'm not out there starting fights, I'm not out there to cause violence. I would simply defend myself. If you start a fight with the intent to harm someone, then you deserve to be shot. I wish I had a gun one night I was jumped. It would have stopped a ton more shit from happening, a ton more crime etc. Have you ever been around the latin kings or the bloods? They aren't very nice people to strangers. The fact that you without gun, no one dead or serious injured, you with gun, multiple people would be dead or seriously injured suggest that you with gun is more dangerous, no matter what your intentions are. It doesn't matter that I wasn't permanently injured. I was rushed to a hospital and they thought I had fractured my orbital severely. If you saw me that night, you would think I was seriously injured. If you are seriously injured, then you won't be able to ever use the gun. By your logic, a person will never be able to use their firearm because they will be incapacitated by the time they are ALLOWED to. I seriously don't think you have ever been around gangs or jumped/mugged.
He's saying that if you had a gun you would impulsively shoot them for just feeling like a threat.
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On June 28 2013 03:49 ranshaked wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 03:45 ragz_gt wrote:On June 28 2013 03:42 ranshaked wrote:On June 28 2013 03:39 ragz_gt wrote:On June 28 2013 03:37 ranshaked wrote:On June 28 2013 03:35 PanN wrote:On June 28 2013 03:33 fifasnipe2224 wrote:On June 28 2013 03:32 PanN wrote:On June 28 2013 03:31 fifasnipe2224 wrote:
Really? Getting knocked down is a fair cause for a firearm? If you got hit to the ground and that same person that hit you is getting ready to continuously hit you then yes, most fucking definitely. How can you be sure that 'same person that hit you is getting ready to continuously hit you'? I shouldn't even bother responding to you. "verbal argument occurred, in which Trayvon strikes Zimmerman. When that happens, Zimmerman falls to the ground, and when Trayvon tries to get on top of him to complete the fight, Zimmerman pulls his gun and shoots him in the chest." In the exact scenario that you had a problem with, it states that he tries to go on top of him to complete the fight. I'm merely talking about that type of scenario. I wonder sometimes if anyone has ever been in a serious fight, which led to them being near death in a hospital? Personally, I've been in a few fights that left me in a hospital. I don't know if people actually understand how dangerous a persons' fist/intent can be. Not nearly as dangerous as you with a gun, as you would shot a few people already. How would I be more dangerous? I'm not out there starting fights, I'm not out there to cause violence. I would simply defend myself. If you start a fight with the intent to harm someone, then you deserve to be shot. I wish I had a gun one night I was jumped. It would have stopped a ton more shit from happening, a ton more crime etc. Have you ever been around the latin kings or the bloods? They aren't very nice people to strangers. The fact that you without gun, no one dead or serious injured, you with gun, multiple people would be dead or seriously injured suggest that you with gun is more dangerous, no matter what your intentions are. It doesn't matter that I wasn't permanently injured. I was rushed to a hospital and they thought I had fractured my orbital severely. If you saw me that night, you would think I was seriously injured. If you are seriously injured, then you won't be able to ever use the gun. By your logic, a person will never be able to use their firearm because they will be incapacitated by the time they are ALLOWED to. I seriously don't think you have ever been around gangs or jumped/mugged.
Been around gangs or jumped/bugged is a pre-qualification to common sense now? WTF? If you use shittiest place as guide line for everything, then everything turns into shit.
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On June 28 2013 03:52 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 03:49 ranshaked wrote:On June 28 2013 03:45 ragz_gt wrote:On June 28 2013 03:42 ranshaked wrote:On June 28 2013 03:39 ragz_gt wrote:On June 28 2013 03:37 ranshaked wrote:On June 28 2013 03:35 PanN wrote:On June 28 2013 03:33 fifasnipe2224 wrote:On June 28 2013 03:32 PanN wrote:On June 28 2013 03:31 fifasnipe2224 wrote:
Really? Getting knocked down is a fair cause for a firearm? If you got hit to the ground and that same person that hit you is getting ready to continuously hit you then yes, most fucking definitely. How can you be sure that 'same person that hit you is getting ready to continuously hit you'? I shouldn't even bother responding to you. "verbal argument occurred, in which Trayvon strikes Zimmerman. When that happens, Zimmerman falls to the ground, and when Trayvon tries to get on top of him to complete the fight, Zimmerman pulls his gun and shoots him in the chest." In the exact scenario that you had a problem with, it states that he tries to go on top of him to complete the fight. I'm merely talking about that type of scenario. I wonder sometimes if anyone has ever been in a serious fight, which led to them being near death in a hospital? Personally, I've been in a few fights that left me in a hospital. I don't know if people actually understand how dangerous a persons' fist/intent can be. Not nearly as dangerous as you with a gun, as you would shot a few people already. How would I be more dangerous? I'm not out there starting fights, I'm not out there to cause violence. I would simply defend myself. If you start a fight with the intent to harm someone, then you deserve to be shot. I wish I had a gun one night I was jumped. It would have stopped a ton more shit from happening, a ton more crime etc. Have you ever been around the latin kings or the bloods? They aren't very nice people to strangers. The fact that you without gun, no one dead or serious injured, you with gun, multiple people would be dead or seriously injured suggest that you with gun is more dangerous, no matter what your intentions are. It doesn't matter that I wasn't permanently injured. I was rushed to a hospital and they thought I had fractured my orbital severely. If you saw me that night, you would think I was seriously injured. If you are seriously injured, then you won't be able to ever use the gun. By your logic, a person will never be able to use their firearm because they will be incapacitated by the time they are ALLOWED to. I seriously don't think you have ever been around gangs or jumped/mugged. He's saying that if you had a gun you would impulsively shoot them for just feeling like a threat.
Which is ridiculous.
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On June 28 2013 03:52 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 03:49 ranshaked wrote:On June 28 2013 03:45 ragz_gt wrote:On June 28 2013 03:42 ranshaked wrote:On June 28 2013 03:39 ragz_gt wrote:On June 28 2013 03:37 ranshaked wrote:On June 28 2013 03:35 PanN wrote:On June 28 2013 03:33 fifasnipe2224 wrote:On June 28 2013 03:32 PanN wrote:On June 28 2013 03:31 fifasnipe2224 wrote:
Really? Getting knocked down is a fair cause for a firearm? If you got hit to the ground and that same person that hit you is getting ready to continuously hit you then yes, most fucking definitely. How can you be sure that 'same person that hit you is getting ready to continuously hit you'? I shouldn't even bother responding to you. "verbal argument occurred, in which Trayvon strikes Zimmerman. When that happens, Zimmerman falls to the ground, and when Trayvon tries to get on top of him to complete the fight, Zimmerman pulls his gun and shoots him in the chest." In the exact scenario that you had a problem with, it states that he tries to go on top of him to complete the fight. I'm merely talking about that type of scenario. I wonder sometimes if anyone has ever been in a serious fight, which led to them being near death in a hospital? Personally, I've been in a few fights that left me in a hospital. I don't know if people actually understand how dangerous a persons' fist/intent can be. Not nearly as dangerous as you with a gun, as you would shot a few people already. How would I be more dangerous? I'm not out there starting fights, I'm not out there to cause violence. I would simply defend myself. If you start a fight with the intent to harm someone, then you deserve to be shot. I wish I had a gun one night I was jumped. It would have stopped a ton more shit from happening, a ton more crime etc. Have you ever been around the latin kings or the bloods? They aren't very nice people to strangers. The fact that you without gun, no one dead or serious injured, you with gun, multiple people would be dead or seriously injured suggest that you with gun is more dangerous, no matter what your intentions are. It doesn't matter that I wasn't permanently injured. I was rushed to a hospital and they thought I had fractured my orbital severely. If you saw me that night, you would think I was seriously injured. If you are seriously injured, then you won't be able to ever use the gun. By your logic, a person will never be able to use their firearm because they will be incapacitated by the time they are ALLOWED to. I seriously don't think you have ever been around gangs or jumped/mugged. He's saying that if you had a gun you would impulsively shoot them for just feeling like a threat.
I wouldn't shoot until I felt my life was in danger.
My life would feel in danger if I was A) On the ground and the fight was to continue B) Disabled in some form/fashion
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quite a discussion going on
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On June 28 2013 03:54 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 03:49 ranshaked wrote:On June 28 2013 03:45 ragz_gt wrote:On June 28 2013 03:42 ranshaked wrote:On June 28 2013 03:39 ragz_gt wrote:On June 28 2013 03:37 ranshaked wrote:On June 28 2013 03:35 PanN wrote:On June 28 2013 03:33 fifasnipe2224 wrote:On June 28 2013 03:32 PanN wrote:On June 28 2013 03:31 fifasnipe2224 wrote:
Really? Getting knocked down is a fair cause for a firearm? If you got hit to the ground and that same person that hit you is getting ready to continuously hit you then yes, most fucking definitely. How can you be sure that 'same person that hit you is getting ready to continuously hit you'? I shouldn't even bother responding to you. "verbal argument occurred, in which Trayvon strikes Zimmerman. When that happens, Zimmerman falls to the ground, and when Trayvon tries to get on top of him to complete the fight, Zimmerman pulls his gun and shoots him in the chest." In the exact scenario that you had a problem with, it states that he tries to go on top of him to complete the fight. I'm merely talking about that type of scenario. I wonder sometimes if anyone has ever been in a serious fight, which led to them being near death in a hospital? Personally, I've been in a few fights that left me in a hospital. I don't know if people actually understand how dangerous a persons' fist/intent can be. Not nearly as dangerous as you with a gun, as you would shot a few people already. How would I be more dangerous? I'm not out there starting fights, I'm not out there to cause violence. I would simply defend myself. If you start a fight with the intent to harm someone, then you deserve to be shot. I wish I had a gun one night I was jumped. It would have stopped a ton more shit from happening, a ton more crime etc. Have you ever been around the latin kings or the bloods? They aren't very nice people to strangers. The fact that you without gun, no one dead or serious injured, you with gun, multiple people would be dead or seriously injured suggest that you with gun is more dangerous, no matter what your intentions are. It doesn't matter that I wasn't permanently injured. I was rushed to a hospital and they thought I had fractured my orbital severely. If you saw me that night, you would think I was seriously injured. If you are seriously injured, then you won't be able to ever use the gun. By your logic, a person will never be able to use their firearm because they will be incapacitated by the time they are ALLOWED to. I seriously don't think you have ever been around gangs or jumped/mugged. Been around gangs or jumped/bugged is a pre-qualification to common sense now? WTF? If you use shittiest place as guide line for everything, then everything turns into shit. Shittiest places are fucking everywhere. Literally, here in Orlando FL, there are at least three parts of town you do not go in unless you want trouble.
Look at the crime in Chicago, I'd go nowhere near the bad sectors of town without a weapon. The violence there is insane.
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Y'all realize that what you think self-defense laws should be is irrelevant, right? The law is what the law is.
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And if this discussion is about what the self-defense laws should be, I don't think this is the time or place to have it.
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that audio recording gave me chills. Who is this girl, just some home owner?
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On June 28 2013 04:17 Masq wrote:
that audio recording gave me chills. Who is this girl, just some home owner?
I believe so.
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On June 28 2013 04:08 SKC wrote:
And if this discussion is about what the self-defense laws should be, I don't think this is the time or place to have it.
I think Ran's argument is that its okay to shoot someone who punched you once. I don't know how relevant that is to self defense.
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On June 28 2013 04:18 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 04:08 SKC wrote:
And if this discussion is about what the self-defense laws should be, I don't think this is the time or place to have it. I think Ran's argument is that its okay to shoot someone who punched you once. I don't know how relevant that is to self defense.
He clearly didn't say that. He says it's ok to shoot someone if you feel you are in danger of great bodily harm, in line with self-defense laws. That can come from a single punch or not, it's you who is making it seem like he wants to shoot anyone who gives him a slap.
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On June 28 2013 04:20 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 04:18 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 28 2013 04:08 SKC wrote:
And if this discussion is about what the self-defense laws should be, I don't think this is the time or place to have it. I think Ran's argument is that its okay to shoot someone who punched you once. I don't know how relevant that is to self defense. He clearly didn't say that. He says it's ok to shoot someone if you feel you are in danger of great bodily harm, in line with self-defense laws. That can come from a single punch or not, it's you who is making it seem like he wants to shoot anyone who gives him a slap.
So what am I supposed to do? Take the punch and do nothing about it? The entire point of having a gun is to protect yourself.
If someone punches me, and I have a weapon on me to protect myself, you bet I'm going to use it.
Clearly he didn't say that.
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On June 28 2013 03:35 ranshaked wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 03:32 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 28 2013 03:30 ranshaked wrote:On June 28 2013 03:27 -Kaiser- wrote:On June 28 2013 03:24 ranshaked wrote:On June 28 2013 03:23 czylu wrote:On June 28 2013 03:18 ranshaked wrote:On June 28 2013 03:15 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 28 2013 03:04 ranshaked wrote:On June 28 2013 03:00 Thieving Magpie wrote:
[quote]
You: "I don't like your personality"
Him: Throws a punch
You: Shoots Him
Some people find that line of logic problematic. So what am I supposed to do? Take the punch and do nothing about it? The entire point of having a gun is to protect yourself. If someone punches me, and I have a weapon on me to protect myself, you bet I'm going to use it. You feel threatened, pull out your gun He feels threatened, pulls out his gun Shooting occurs. Sounds smart. If they had a gun, they would have shot me far before beating me up, and allowing me to get to my gun. It would be irrevelant. which is exactly why bringing a gun to fist fight is murder. I'm not trying to FIGHT anyone. I don't want to fucking fight anyone, which is the entire point of having a gun. If someone attacks me, I'm going to use it because I don't want to fight. I shouldn't have to fight. We're getting into the question of whether lethal force is an appropriate defense to non-lethal force. Isn't that what the trial was supposed to be about before the state pressed murder 2 against him? At what point does lethal force become appropriate against non-lethal force? What defines non-lethal force? What if Trayvon had been a professional martial artist, but Zimmerman didn't know this? Does it matter? Well, if you get punched once and fall--is that valid reason to shoot someone in the chest? After you follow him At night After he already ran from you Sure, why not? If he's going to continue to beat on me, what is his intent at this point? I'm already on the ground, and out of the fight. If you continue at me, then I believe I have the right to use lethal force to protect myself. Following someone isn't illegal. Punching someone is.
Since you didn't seem to notice; I gave the example of getting punched once and he responded with "sure, why not"
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On June 28 2013 04:22 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 04:20 SKC wrote:On June 28 2013 04:18 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 28 2013 04:08 SKC wrote:
And if this discussion is about what the self-defense laws should be, I don't think this is the time or place to have it. I think Ran's argument is that its okay to shoot someone who punched you once. I don't know how relevant that is to self defense. He clearly didn't say that. He says it's ok to shoot someone if you feel you are in danger of great bodily harm, in line with self-defense laws. That can come from a single punch or not, it's you who is making it seem like he wants to shoot anyone who gives him a slap. Show nested quote +So what am I supposed to do? Take the punch and do nothing about it? The entire point of having a gun is to protect yourself.
If someone punches me, and I have a weapon on me to protect myself, you bet I'm going to use it. Clearly he didn't say that.
I've cleared this up with an earlier post:
I wouldn't shoot until I felt my life was in danger.
My life would feel in danger if I was A) On the ground and the fight was to continue B) Disabled in some form/fashion
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On June 28 2013 04:24 ranshaked wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 04:22 m4inbrain wrote:On June 28 2013 04:20 SKC wrote:On June 28 2013 04:18 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 28 2013 04:08 SKC wrote:
And if this discussion is about what the self-defense laws should be, I don't think this is the time or place to have it. I think Ran's argument is that its okay to shoot someone who punched you once. I don't know how relevant that is to self defense. He clearly didn't say that. He says it's ok to shoot someone if you feel you are in danger of great bodily harm, in line with self-defense laws. That can come from a single punch or not, it's you who is making it seem like he wants to shoot anyone who gives him a slap. So what am I supposed to do? Take the punch and do nothing about it? The entire point of having a gun is to protect yourself.
If someone punches me, and I have a weapon on me to protect myself, you bet I'm going to use it. Clearly he didn't say that. I've cleared this up with an earlier post: Show nested quote +I wouldn't shoot until I felt my life was in danger.
My life would feel in danger if I was A) On the ground and the fight was to continue B) Disabled in some form/fashion
You should edit it then, because if someone says that you said so, he's right. You clearly did. I'm not trying to get into your discussion or something, just wanted to make that clear.
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On June 28 2013 04:22 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 04:20 SKC wrote:On June 28 2013 04:18 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 28 2013 04:08 SKC wrote:
And if this discussion is about what the self-defense laws should be, I don't think this is the time or place to have it. I think Ran's argument is that its okay to shoot someone who punched you once. I don't know how relevant that is to self defense. He clearly didn't say that. He says it's ok to shoot someone if you feel you are in danger of great bodily harm, in line with self-defense laws. That can come from a single punch or not, it's you who is making it seem like he wants to shoot anyone who gives him a slap. Show nested quote +So what am I supposed to do? Take the punch and do nothing about it? The entire point of having a gun is to protect yourself.
If someone punches me, and I have a weapon on me to protect myself, you bet I'm going to use it. Clearly he didn't say that.
Sure, why not? If he's going to continue to beat on me, what is his intent at this point? I'm already on the ground, and out of the fight. If you continue at me, then I believe I have the right to use lethal force to protect myself.
Stop picking apart posts without context. A single punch, if the threat that he will continue fighting remains, can be enough for self-defense laws. He clearly doesn't mean a case where the guy punches him and walks away, and he shoots him in the back after getting up. This is a really dumb discussion and completelly off-topic.
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yay, lunch break.
isnt this the chick who said the police forced her to change her testimony?
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On June 28 2013 04:25 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 04:22 m4inbrain wrote:On June 28 2013 04:20 SKC wrote:On June 28 2013 04:18 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 28 2013 04:08 SKC wrote:
And if this discussion is about what the self-defense laws should be, I don't think this is the time or place to have it. I think Ran's argument is that its okay to shoot someone who punched you once. I don't know how relevant that is to self defense. He clearly didn't say that. He says it's ok to shoot someone if you feel you are in danger of great bodily harm, in line with self-defense laws. That can come from a single punch or not, it's you who is making it seem like he wants to shoot anyone who gives him a slap. So what am I supposed to do? Take the punch and do nothing about it? The entire point of having a gun is to protect yourself.
If someone punches me, and I have a weapon on me to protect myself, you bet I'm going to use it. Clearly he didn't say that. Show nested quote +Sure, why not? If he's going to continue to beat on me, what is his intent at this point? I'm already on the ground, and out of the fight. If you continue at me, then I believe I have the right to use lethal force to protect myself. Stop picking apart posts without context. A single punch, if the threat that he will continue fighting remains, can be enough for self-defense laws. He clearly doesn't mean a case where the guy punches him and walks away, and he shoots him in the back after getting up. This is a really dumb discussion and completelly off-topic.
I quoted his complete posting, there is nothing to pick apart. That was the whole posting.
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I feel like I have lived in that womans house by now.
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EPT
