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On March 15 2012 14:11 SeventhPride wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 14:07 cuppatea wrote:On March 15 2012 14:00 SeventhPride wrote:On March 15 2012 13:56 cuppatea wrote:On March 15 2012 13:40 SeventhPride wrote:On March 15 2012 13:39 cuppatea wrote:On March 15 2012 13:33 SeventhPride wrote:On March 15 2012 13:29 cuppatea wrote:On March 15 2012 13:06 SeventhPride wrote:
One of the reasons why it is dying in korea is because its sooo easy compared to brood war. When you listen to the commentators, you hear them saying, "oh those forcefields" "oh those fungals" "oh those emps". Sc2 is so easy that casters are hyping things that are easy to make it sound hard. In korea, they are so used to the difficult mechanics of broodwar that sc2 controls are like a joke to them especially since korean are so exposed to brood war with it being on tv. So why would they NOT support a new game, instead of a game that is inferior to its predecessor?
And I agree with the fact that its because its free, free means more viewers, more viewers means more sponsors. Whether you like it or not , a game receive sponsors not base on its skill level, but its popularity. If a game is more popular, more people will sponsor it, because there you gain more promotion with more viewers. Blizzard really screwed that up by not supporting the sc2 competitive scene and even trying to take money from them And one of the reasons it's far bigger than BW ever was everywhere except Korea is because it's sooo easy compared to Brood War. So true, kind of sad really, the amount of people taking hits at LoL and forgetting they are playing a easier game compared to brood war. Don't be confused, I'm not supporting your view point. Quite the opposite, in fact. Your intentions might not support me, but your wording supports me. So I am fine with that. You are basically saying sc2 is popular internationally because its easier and its true. Look at broodwar, only hardcore players play it, thats why lol will be more popular then sc2 in times to come. Thanks for the unintentional support We agree that the game is easier than BW and that it's international popularity owes a lot to that but unlike you I don't think that's a bad thing and I'm not going to look down on SC2 for being more accessible than it's predecessor. If having the competitive scene be smaller in Korea is the price to be paid for it being much bigger everywhere else then I'm fine with that. When have I said its a bad thing? Which part of my lines said " oh its bad that sc2 is easier then broodwar". I am saying and again I quote myself "So true, kind of sad really, the amount of people taking hits at LoL and forgetting they are playing a easier game compared to brood war". Which means why are you taking hits at LoL when sc2 is easier then bw, You really need to read properly man. I know sc2 is like "THE THING" to you, but you are being wayyyy to offended by me without reading what I said properly. SC2 is "THE THING" to me? Now who's making shit up? The only online game I've played for the past 8 months is LoL and I think the SC2 elitists bashing on it for being too easy to be an esport are just as pathetic as the BW elitists who have been spouting the same shit about SC2 for the past 2 years. While you didn't directly state that SC2 being easier than BW is a bad thing your first post certainly suggested as much, referring to the game as "inferior", a "joke" and "so easy." If you think that "SC2 elitists bashing on it for being too easy to be an esport are just as pathetic as the BW elitists who have been spouting the same shit about SC2 for the past 2 years." then you already support the line where I quote myself "So true, kind of sad really, the amount of people taking hits at LoL and forgetting they are playing a easier game compared to brood war.[" You are obviously lying because I have already explicitly said that its sad when people bash other games just because its easier. And please quote the place where I "Suggested as much" referring to the game as "inferior" a "joke" and "so easy" is to show sc2 fan boys how silly they sound when they bash LoL. Again, read this whole post before inferring points that seem as if its insulting "your game" to you. I did the courtesy of analysing your statements, you should do it to, since you are making my points look stronger.
The first paragraph of your first post read to me like the usual BW elitist bullshit that's irritated me on here for the past few years (and I call out SC2 elitists for the same shit on LoL forums), the rest I have no problem with and even agree with most of it. If I misunderstood your point then I apologize.
For the record I try to keep up with BW results, watch most big SC2 events and play/watch a lot of LoL. I welcome the success of LoL and any other esport.
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I can't believe sc2 popularity in korea is dying and LoL has a larger fan base in korea . I think it's a pretty good thing for esports more casual game for the win I guess.
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I love LoL, and I play it more than SC2, so perhaps I am a bit biased. However, I used to watch GSL and SC2 tournaments all the time, and honestly, it feels boring and doesn't captivate my interest anymore. This is mostly because of I've been watching BW for years, and it's difficult to simply watch SC2, without making comparisons to BW. When I watch SC2, I feel like "if this was BW, I would probably be more excited." Because I still watch BroodWar, and I feel like it is miles more entertaining, I don't watch SC2 at all. However, because LoL is new and fresh, and I already have an interest in the game, I'd be more likely to turn to watch a LoL stream or a LoL tournament over a similar SC2 stream.
Essentially, my point is SC2 feels stale because of the existence of the more exciting BroodWar. Because LoL feels more fresh because it didn't have a similar, more popular game rule it's e-sports culture for years, it's only natural in my eyes that it gains more attention from the Korean scene.
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On March 15 2012 14:29 cuppatea wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 14:11 SeventhPride wrote:On March 15 2012 14:07 cuppatea wrote:On March 15 2012 14:00 SeventhPride wrote:On March 15 2012 13:56 cuppatea wrote:On March 15 2012 13:40 SeventhPride wrote:On March 15 2012 13:39 cuppatea wrote:On March 15 2012 13:33 SeventhPride wrote:On March 15 2012 13:29 cuppatea wrote:On March 15 2012 13:06 SeventhPride wrote:
One of the reasons why it is dying in korea is because its sooo easy compared to brood war. When you listen to the commentators, you hear them saying, "oh those forcefields" "oh those fungals" "oh those emps". Sc2 is so easy that casters are hyping things that are easy to make it sound hard. In korea, they are so used to the difficult mechanics of broodwar that sc2 controls are like a joke to them especially since korean are so exposed to brood war with it being on tv. So why would they NOT support a new game, instead of a game that is inferior to its predecessor?
And I agree with the fact that its because its free, free means more viewers, more viewers means more sponsors. Whether you like it or not , a game receive sponsors not base on its skill level, but its popularity. If a game is more popular, more people will sponsor it, because there you gain more promotion with more viewers. Blizzard really screwed that up by not supporting the sc2 competitive scene and even trying to take money from them And one of the reasons it's far bigger than BW ever was everywhere except Korea is because it's sooo easy compared to Brood War. So true, kind of sad really, the amount of people taking hits at LoL and forgetting they are playing a easier game compared to brood war. Don't be confused, I'm not supporting your view point. Quite the opposite, in fact. Your intentions might not support me, but your wording supports me. So I am fine with that. You are basically saying sc2 is popular internationally because its easier and its true. Look at broodwar, only hardcore players play it, thats why lol will be more popular then sc2 in times to come. Thanks for the unintentional support We agree that the game is easier than BW and that it's international popularity owes a lot to that but unlike you I don't think that's a bad thing and I'm not going to look down on SC2 for being more accessible than it's predecessor. If having the competitive scene be smaller in Korea is the price to be paid for it being much bigger everywhere else then I'm fine with that. When have I said its a bad thing? Which part of my lines said " oh its bad that sc2 is easier then broodwar". I am saying and again I quote myself "So true, kind of sad really, the amount of people taking hits at LoL and forgetting they are playing a easier game compared to brood war". Which means why are you taking hits at LoL when sc2 is easier then bw, You really need to read properly man. I know sc2 is like "THE THING" to you, but you are being wayyyy to offended by me without reading what I said properly. SC2 is "THE THING" to me? Now who's making shit up? The only online game I've played for the past 8 months is LoL and I think the SC2 elitists bashing on it for being too easy to be an esport are just as pathetic as the BW elitists who have been spouting the same shit about SC2 for the past 2 years. While you didn't directly state that SC2 being easier than BW is a bad thing your first post certainly suggested as much, referring to the game as "inferior", a "joke" and "so easy." If you think that "SC2 elitists bashing on it for being too easy to be an esport are just as pathetic as the BW elitists who have been spouting the same shit about SC2 for the past 2 years." then you already support the line where I quote myself "So true, kind of sad really, the amount of people taking hits at LoL and forgetting they are playing a easier game compared to brood war.[" You are obviously lying because I have already explicitly said that its sad when people bash other games just because its easier. And please quote the place where I "Suggested as much" referring to the game as "inferior" a "joke" and "so easy" is to show sc2 fan boys how silly they sound when they bash LoL. Again, read this whole post before inferring points that seem as if its insulting "your game" to you. I did the courtesy of analysing your statements, you should do it to, since you are making my points look stronger. The first paragraph of your first post read to me like the usual BW elitist bullshit that's irritated me on here for the past few years (and I call out SC2 elitists for the same shit on LoL forums), the rest I have no problem with and even agree with most of it. If I misunderstood your point then I apologize. For the record I try to keep up with BW results, watch most big SC2 events and play/watch a lot of LoL. I welcome the success of LoL and any other esport.
I apologise for that, I meant it in a sarcastic way to show those sc2 players how stupid they are to make fun of LoL. hard to show sarcasm with just words.
And yeah, I hope esports thrive no matter what game, glad we came to a agreement on that
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LoL may be the #1 eSport in KR but SC2 reigns the US
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On March 15 2012 12:37 Shinta) wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 11:21 Praetorial wrote:On March 15 2012 11:15 Celestia wrote:
The only reason why LOL is huge is because the game is free, I work at an internet cafe and everyone here plays League of Legends (all of them lvl 30), all of these gamers were casual gamers, this is the first game they play something seriously, almost all of them never knew DOTA or didn't even knew that games can be streamed live.
I can assure none of these people will ever know LoL if the game wasn't free, like HoN before. I know this because here we had bring good games but they havent touched them at all (like SC2 or BF:BC2) prefering free games like Flyff O.o (except for L4D). Here were I live I have seen this big boom of LOL and as far as I know almost all of the player base are console gamers or casual gamers, I think there is a big difference from a player base like that vs a one like CS, BW or a newer one like SC2. Right, because almost all of the SC2, BW, and CS playerbase is not casual, they're all pros. Right? Wrong, but the vast majority of SC2 players are people who have played SC:BW and/or WC3, have heard that professional eSports exists in this world, and have learned that they can actually look up pro guides and watch live pro matches. Most LoL players have some knowledge, and a whole lot of them went to LoL because of the hype they heard after playing DotA and after not liking HoN, but there is a huge amount of people that just play because some guy said "hey, play this with me, it's free". Not to go away from the fact that there are players who buy SC2 to play campaign and custom games and never play a single ladder game ever, but the difference is pretty big. And not like I think this is even a valid issue.. It isn't relevant to this topic at all. Just disagreeing with your disagreement. I don't think LoL will ever be as popular as SC2 or SC:BW... I don't even think LoL will reach the same level that DotA 2 will, but I do think that the majority of moba gamers will play LoL and DotA 2, and forget Blizzard DotA and HoN (and DotA...). LoL is a fun game with bonus skills (more buttons to press = more fun), and DotA 2 will bring in a bigger professional scene, and thus more revenue and more spectators, but not necessarily more "players". People will play LoL and DotA 2, while also playing SC2 and/or other games, whereas people who play those other games won't all play LoL and/or DotA 2. If you see what I'm saying here.. All of the above are my educated opinions, don't take anything too seriously.
From a pure numbers stand point LoL is already more popular than sc2. If you want to argue with me than you are delusional. From an e-sports standpoint, that point has to be debated. It's not looking good for starcraft 2 though. The picture down below had statistics from season 1 in league of legends. Couple things stuck out.
1. The stream apparently topped 200000 viewers for the season 1 championships. Sc2 got what 100000? This means that even even though there are people at barcrafts and there are some people watching it together, to match LoL's viewership you'd have to get just as many people watching from their homes as people who go to barcrafts.
2. 32 million accounts have been made. Starcraft 2 has sold 6 million copies... 10 million at most. For Starcraft 2 to even dream about having as many players as LoL, each person who plays LoL would literally have to make a minimum of 3 accounts.
I love sc2 and I wanted it to succeed partially because BW was and still is my favorite game ever made. There were just so many problems with it that have been pointed out in many forums. Mechanically difficult strategies weren't rewarded, tricky play wasn't difficult to pull off, you could macro out of allins, defending was harder than attacking, every army had the same composition, etc.... All of this just added up to me basically quitting the game. I play like 1 match a week now for shits and giggles, but honestly blizzard did this. They had literally a game maker's dream. Kespa had done free marketing for them for literally 10 years leading up to starcraft 2 and what do they do? They tried to take out Kespa so they could have a larger share of the pie.
+ Show Spoiler +
On March 15 2012 14:45 InseKtSC2 wrote:
LoL may be the #1 eSport in KR but SC2 reigns the US
See above
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Well, I'm not really that surprised. League of Legends is free to play and is more fun to play with your friends and let's face it, its usually more fun to play with friends than laddering alone in 1v1. Most of my friends gave up on SC2 because its not as fun. The social aspect of SC2 is lacklustre, it feels like a single player and has little to no community.
I'm not opposed to League of Legends being the most played/popular e-Sports game, but this doesn't bold well for with Brood War or SC2.
Times are changing.
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Good for e-sports but bad for BW and sc2. Am I the only one that doesn't care about 'e-sports' at large but only cares about rts like BW/sc2? This is bad news to me.
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i understand everyones complaints on both sides, me personally, i hope its just a fad and starcraft 2 will still get a chance to grow.
my only complaint or comment on LoL is i just dont see how anyone who doesnt play the game or anyone who doesnt play videogames could EVER watch a full match, where ive shown multiple people sc2 and bw matches and they sorta get into it, even without playing it.
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konadora
Singapore66366 Posts
On March 15 2012 14:53 WniO wrote:
i understand everyones complaints on both sides, me personally, i hope its just a fad and starcraft 2 will still get a chance to grow.
my only complaint or comment on LoL is i just dont see how anyone who doesnt play the game or anyone who doesnt play videogames could EVER watch a full match, where ive shown multiple people sc2 and bw matches and they sorta get into it, even without playing it.
sc2 already had a long chance to grow
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On March 14 2012 20:09 MethodSC wrote:
It truly is the age of casuals... =/
Those are good news for Zynga... if they are smart... we can have an "competitive" version of Farm Ville, and our moms will be the new proGamers.
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Only thing I don't like about LoL is when its already clear who's the winner it drags to another 20 min to finish. I hope they implemented some rule to end it earlier, for example, if gold difference is >15k its autowin and game stops.
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konadora
Singapore66366 Posts
On March 15 2012 15:01 bokeevboke wrote:
Only thing I don't like about LoL is when its already clear who's the winner it drags to another 20 min to finish. I hope they implemented some rule to end it earlier, for example, if gold difference is >15k its autowin and game stops.
idk about LoL, but in dota it's still possible for a comeback with 15k gold difference
that's why every battle matters, and makes AoS style games exciting to watch
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On March 15 2012 15:01 Angry.Zerg wrote:Those are good news for Zynga... if they are smart... we can have an "competitive" version of Farm Ville, and our moms will be the new proGamers.
sarcasm accepted. but on serious note, guitar hero never became truly competitive game. But I think LoL is somewhere in between of SC2 and guitar hero.
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On March 15 2012 15:01 bokeevboke wrote:
Only thing I don't like about LoL is when its already clear who's the winner it drags to another 20 min to finish. I hope they implemented some rule to end it earlier, for example, if gold difference is >15k its autowin and game stops.
Should they implement a rule that says that if you're down 40 harvesters you loose? I've seen the most ridiculous comebacks happen this way. These games are the reason we pay attention to esports.
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On March 15 2012 15:01 bokeevboke wrote:
Only thing I don't like about LoL is when its already clear who's the winner it drags to another 20 min to finish. I hope they implemented some rule to end it earlier, for example, if gold difference is >15k its autowin and game stops.
Come backs are MUCH more common in LoL than SC2. 1 misposition or miscommunication and the game can swing in the other teams favor. Please don't try to tell me it's not common to see a game in SC2 where a player gets a macro lead and keeps expanding until he wins. Isn't that the whole Day9/Artosis saying? If you're ahead, stay ahead?
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On March 15 2012 15:04 Zerksys wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 15:01 bokeevboke wrote:
Only thing I don't like about LoL is when its already clear who's the winner it drags to another 20 min to finish. I hope they implemented some rule to end it earlier, for example, if gold difference is >15k its autowin and game stops. Should they implement a rule that says that if you're down 40 harvesters you loose? I've seen the most ridiculous comebacks happen this way. These games are the reason we pay attention to esports.
I think we don't need to watch every other game awaiting for a miracle to happen. It happens in 1 out of 50 games. So you waste 49x20 mins of your life for nothing. Its like watching Fantasy gg-timing every game XD
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This thread is just awesome.
It's got panicky SC2 fanboys frantically defending their game from a new offensive, which is just delightful to watch.
It's good news for OGN, particularly nice given what happened to MBCgame.
It even makes Blizzard look kinda bad, and they really deserve to look bad because they did a shitty job.
On a somewhat more substantial note, I find it rather interesting/terrifying that one of the key (but certainly not only) qualities of LoL that helps its popularity -- its free-to-play -- is also a rather unfortunate hindrance to it's competitive nature. I can't imagine how you could profitably free-to-play SC2, while still maintaining it's competitive integrity.
Map marketplace might do it, but that's an incredibly easy way to fragment the community and create yourself a load of new problems (or exacerbate existing ones, ffs Blizzard...)
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I don't really like LoL, more of a DotA/2 fan, but Riot sort of deserves it. With the amount of money Riot pushes into it's e-sport scene, on top of the fact the game is free to play, has an actual good UI, and Riot seems to listen to their community, I'm not surprised it's top dog.
I honestly just hope this is a wake up call for Blizzard to get their heads out of their asses and fix shit. With literally no support for the e-sport scene, horrible bnet 2.0 UI, no LAN, having to buy the game 3 times (plus future expansions) to play on different servers, the list goes on and on. It's really a joke.
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On March 15 2012 15:09 Kanil wrote:
This thread is just awesome.
It's got panicky SC2 fanboys frantically defending their game from a new offensive, which is just delightful to watch.
It's good news for OGN, particularly nice given what happened to MBCgame.
It even makes Blizzard look kinda bad, and they really deserve to look bad because they did a shitty job.
On a somewhat more substantial note, I find it rather interesting/terrifying that one of the key (but certainly not only) qualities of LoL that helps its popularity -- its free-to-play -- is also a rather unfortunate hindrance to it's competitive nature. I can't imagine how you could profitably free-to-play SC2, while still maintaining it's competitive integrity.
Map marketplace might do it, but that's an incredibly easy way to fragment the community and create yourself a load of new problems (or exacerbate existing ones, ffs Blizzard...)
I wonder what if terrans were free to play and you had to buy protoss and zerg races. Or battlecruisers are unavailable until you buy, but core units are always free (MMMVG and tanks for example).
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EPT![[image loading]](http://riot-web-static.s3.amazonaws.com/images/news/November_2011/2011_11_17_lol_numbers/riot_lol_infographic_560px.jpg)
