Why do people in the US vote? - Page 22

On March 02 2012 12:03 ihufa wrote:


You only have 2 parties and they're owned by the same coorporations, so they don't need to rig the elections to make sure they stay in power

On March 02 2012 11:33 sc2superfan101 wrote:i just gave you two reasons why it's not irrational. the first being that for every vote that isn't cast, the value of the singular vote goes up. therefore, as people stop voting, it becomes more and more valuable for them to vote.

On March 02 2012 11:33 sc2superfan101 wrote:you're basically assuming some kind of balance where it's valuable to vote before but not after. im saying that it doesnt work like that because that is a circular argument, and that balance is impossible to achieve. if people don't vote because it's irrational, it suddenly becomes rational to vote, but then it's not rational because if they vote the value goes down, but then it's rational because they won't vote because of that... it keeps going and going and going. which is why i put the more important second point in there:

On March 02 2012 11:33 sc2superfan101 wrote:$1,000,000 could not get me to not vote. i would give up my life to protect my right to vote. i would send my children to war to protect their right to vote. almost nothing could be more valuable to me than my vote. so, this point is also incorrect. we are dealing with values that are higher than money.

On March 02 2012 12:03 ihufa wrote:


You only have 2 parties and they're owned by the same coorporations, so they don't need to rig the elections to make sure they stay in power

On March 02 2012 02:47 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
Only considering national elections. President, senator, etc.

I live in the USA, and I have never voted, though I've been of age for the last three presidential elections. At first it was because I lived in a state which has always been completely lopsided for one party. I felt like my vote didn't matter, which I realize is a point that many will argue. But, fu, the fact is that my state would elect republicans for national offices no matter what, period.

In the past few years, however, my reasons have changed a bit. Now I realize that I just have no faith in the electoral system. As much as I hate sounding like a long-boarding, clove-smoking,, hipster douche, I feel like the fact of the matter is that the wealthy elite of the country really do control everything. Business moguls and celebrities become senators, governors, and president. Our laws, regulations, and taxes are thought up and created by people who are wealthy and powerful. They've proven time and time again that they're willing to use their position to advance their own ends.

And of course, lobbyists. Whatever company, group, or individual has the most money can trade that cash in for political influence. Oil companies wine, dine, and bribe for the rights to drill in previously protected environmental areas. Religions collect hundreds of billions annually, tax-free mind you, and then turn around and pump that money right back into congress to support bills that they find morally correct.

I know that this is nothing new. Classes have existed since the beginning of civilization. What's infuriating is that Democracy is touted as a government of the people, where decisions and policies are made based on the will of the general public.

It's not. That's why I don't vote.

Is this a blog?

of the people, by the people, for the people

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.

On March 02 2012 11:56 red_ wrote:So you're saying, my choice to vote actually does influence others' choice to vote by altering the equation and adjusting the chance that their vote is meaningful? I'm glad you could clarify that for me, makes it easier to refute your earlier statements that this is not so.

On March 02 2012 03:00 mastergriggy wrote:
Most people don't vote. From what I hear the percentage gets lower and lower too. I'm guessing it has to do with the fact that most people don't prescribe to either of the two candidates policies, and therefore don't think voting is worth it or don't feel compelled to vote in the first place.

On March 02 2012 03:16 KwarK wrote:
Statistically no one vote ever makes a difference, no major election is decided by a single vote. The argument "but if everyone thought like that then..." is meaningless because there is no connection between your choice to vote and anyone else's, if you go into the ballot room and spoil your ballot then nobody else will do anything different because of it. There is absolutely no value to voting beyond any personal gratification you get out of it.

On March 02 2012 12:03 dAPhREAk wrote:

what corporations are these?

On March 02 2012 02:57 D10 wrote:
I wish I could not vote, here in Brazil if you dont go vote you lose a lot of rights =(

One of the reasons we elect so many corrupt politicians, so many people with 0 idea of politics voting

On March 02 2012 02:57 D10 wrote:
I wish I could not vote, here in Brazil if you dont go vote you lose a lot of rights =(

One of the reasons we elect so many corrupt politicians, so many people with 0 idea of politics voting

On March 02 2012 12:07 WolfintheSheep wrote:

In the US? Primarily Hollywood, the music industry, and oil companies. Those three basically dwarf everything else when it comes to campaign contributions and lobbying funds.

On March 02 2012 12:03 sunprince wrote:


Yes, but in the United States (which is the context of the argument), the value of an individual vote will not go up to the point that it matters, at least not in the near future.

Obviously if you live in a town where only twenty people vote, you should definitely vote in the mayoral election, but that's not what we're talking about here.



You keep assuming that people will stop voting because it's irrational. I've already explained that most people vote despite it's irrationality, and that won't change simply because a few enlightened individuals choose not to.



Even assuming that you are honest, your views do not extend to everyone else. It's not that expensive to buy votes, let alone simply paying people to be lazy. We're also not talking about giving up your right to vote permanently or to become a slave; we're talking about how much it would cost for you to skip voting once. Would you vote even though skipping work that day was guaranteed to cost you your job? How much is the net gain to be had if you were to affect the vote?

There will always be a few people who value the act of voting once more than life itself. That's great for them, but the point being made is that most people vote even though it costs them something to do so and gives them very little benefit.

On March 02 2012 12:07 phyvo wrote:


There is a connection. Your statement does not make the "if everyone did this" argument invalid because votes come from ideas that are shared between people and ideas have influence. You're sharing ideas now like any person would, those ideas can affect other people's decision to vote.

I'm not saying anyone here is going to start some huge voting/not-voting movement by random posts in an internet thread. Rather these are old ideas that have been battling for a long time and if you're going to publicly take the position of not voting you have realize you might be responsible for other people saying "yeah he's right why am I voting anyway?", and if enough folks in your camp happen to convince enough people there'd be consequences. That is where the "if everyone thought..." argument comes from.

You keep assuming that people will stop voting because it's irrational. I've already explained that most people vote despite it's irrationality, and that won't change simply because a few enlightened individuals choose not to.

Even assuming that you are honest, your views do not extend to everyone else.

We're also not talking about giving up your right to vote permanently or to become a slave; we're talking about how much it would cost for you to skip voting once.

but the point being made is that most people vote even though it costs them something to do so and gives them very little benefit.

On March 02 2012 12:03 sunprince wrote:


Yes, but in the United States (which is the context of the argument), the value of an individual vote will not go up to the point that it matters, at least not in the near future.

Obviously if you live in a town where only twenty people vote, you should definitely vote in the mayoral election, but that's not what we're talking about here.



You keep assuming that people will stop voting because it's irrational. I've already explained that most people vote despite it's irrationality, and that won't change simply because a few enlightened individuals choose not to.



Even assuming that you are honest, your views do not extend to everyone else. It's not that expensive to buy votes, let alone simply paying people to be lazy. We're also not talking about giving up your right to vote permanently or to become a slave; we're talking about how much it would cost for you to skip voting once. Would you vote even though skipping work that day was guaranteed to cost you your job? How much is the net gain to be had if you were to affect the vote?

There will always be a few people who value the act of voting once more than life itself. That's great for them, but the point being made is that most people vote even though it costs them something to do so and gives them very little benefit.

On March 02 2012 12:10 sc2superfan101 wrote:
it costs them very little and it gives them the benefit of knowing that they took part in running their country. it also gives them "bragging" rights: "don't blame me, i voted for (X)!"

On March 02 2012 03:00 mtwow789 wrote:
If you are dissatisfied by politicians, voice your opinion. If all of the so called “middle class” votes, then politician will have to do something that makes middle class happy. Because if they don’t, they won’t get elected. If people like you don’t vote, why would politicians spend time and money to you? Every vote counts and if you neglect to vote, you are forfeiting your life to hands of others.