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Only considering national elections. President, senator, etc.
I live in the USA, and I have never voted, though I've been of age for the last three presidential elections. At first it was because I lived in a state which has always been completely lopsided for one party. I felt like my vote didn't matter, which I realize is a point that many will argue. But, fu, the fact is that my state would elect republicans for national offices no matter what, period.
In the past few years, however, my reasons have changed a bit. Now I realize that I just have no faith in the electoral system. As much as I hate sounding like a long-boarding, clove-smoking,, hipster douche, I feel like the fact of the matter is that the wealthy elite of the country really do control everything. Business moguls and celebrities become senators, governors, and president. Our laws, regulations, and taxes are thought up and created by people who are wealthy and powerful. They've proven time and time again that they're willing to use their position to advance their own ends.
And of course, lobbyists. Whatever company, group, or individual has the most money can trade that cash in for political influence. Oil companies wine, dine, and bribe for the rights to drill in previously protected environmental areas. Religions collect hundreds of billions annually, tax-free mind you, and then turn around and pump that money right back into congress to support bills that they find morally correct.
I know that this is nothing new. Classes have existed since the beginning of civilization. What's infuriating is that Democracy is touted as a government of the people, where decisions and policies are made based on the will of the general public.
It's not. That's why I don't vote.
Is this a blog?
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On March 02 2012 02:47 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
Only considering national elections. President, senator, etc.
I live in the USA, and I have never voted, though I've been of age for the last three presidential elections. At first it was because I lived in a state which has always been completely lopsided for one party. I felt like my vote didn't matter, which I realize is a point that many will argue. But, fu, the fact is that my state would elect republicans for national offices no matter what, period.
In the past few years, however, my reasons have changed a bit. Now I realize that I just have no faith in the electoral system. As much as I hate sounding like a long-boarding, clove-smoking,, hipster douche, I feel like the fact of the matter is that the wealthy elite of the country really do control everything. Business moguls and celebrities become senators, governors, and president. Our laws, regulations, and taxes are thought up and created by people who are wealthy and powerful. They've proven time and time again that they're willing to use their position to advance their own ends.
And of course, lobbyists. Whatever company, group, or individual has the most money can trade that cash in for political influence. Oil companies wine, dine, and bribe for the rights to drill in previously protected environmental areas. Religions collect hundreds of billions annually, tax-free mind you, and then turn around and pump that money right back into congress to support bills that they find morally correct.
I know that this is nothing new. Classes have existed since the beginning of civilization. What's infuriating is that Democracy is touted as a government of the people, where decisions and policies are made based on the will of the general public.
It's not. That's why I don't vote.
Is this a blog?
this is actually a very accurate representation of how i feel, too
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Things like the resistance to SOPA have shown to me that people can still weild influence in government. In my local election, the vote for a city council seat was decided by two votes, and I was glad to have voted.
The issue in our national government is partly one of corruption (which happens in ALL governments to some extent) and the fact that our election system simple is not a very good one. The two party system that we have been forced into creates more corruption then other systems
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I wish I could not vote, here in Brazil if you dont go vote you lose a lot of rights =(
One of the reasons we elect so many corrupt politicians, so many people with 0 idea of politics voting
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On March 02 2012 02:55 rapidash88 wrote:
Things like the resistance to SOPA have shown to me that people can still weild influence in government. In my local election, the vote for a city council seat was decided by two votes, and I was glad to have voted.
The issue in our national government is partly one of corruption (which happens in ALL governments to some extent) and the fact that our election system simple is not a very good one. The two party system that we have been forced into creates more corruption then other systems
Yeah, except if we have to put in that much effort for every bad law and policy that is made to make any difference at all, it already means democracy is totally useless.
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Most people don't vote. From what I hear the percentage gets lower and lower too. I'm guessing it has to do with the fact that most people don't prescribe to either of the two candidates policies, and therefore don't think voting is worth it or don't feel compelled to vote in the first place.
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If you are dissatisfied by politicians, voice your opinion. If all of the so called “middle class” votes, then politician will have to do something that makes middle class happy. Because if they don’t, they won’t get elected. If people like you don’t vote, why would politicians spend time and money to you? Every vote counts and if you neglect to vote, you are forfeiting your life to hands of others.
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On March 02 2012 02:57 ddrddrddrddr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 02:55 rapidash88 wrote:
Things like the resistance to SOPA have shown to me that people can still weild influence in government. In my local election, the vote for a city council seat was decided by two votes, and I was glad to have voted.
The issue in our national government is partly one of corruption (which happens in ALL governments to some extent) and the fact that our election system simple is not a very good one. The two party system that we have been forced into creates more corruption then other systems
Yeah, except if we have to put in that much effort for every bad law and policy that is made to make any difference at all, it already means democracy is totally useless.
Yea, any system where a bum with no education that would trade his vote for food has the same say electing people as aristotle is bound to fail
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Corruption is now legal, it's called lobbying. We all know what really happens.
There are really few "state men", men who will put behind their own interest for the interest of the nation. Especially in time of peace.
The sad thing is that in most countries the blank ballot paper is not counted. Therefor I won't vote either, I don't want to vote for the less worse.
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On March 02 2012 02:55 rapidash88 wrote:
Things like the resistance to SOPA have shown to me that people can still weild influence in government. In my local election, the vote for a city council seat was decided by two votes, and I was glad to have voted.
The issue in our national government is partly one of corruption (which happens in ALL governments to some extent) and the fact that our election system simple is not a very good one. The two party system that we have been forced into creates more corruption then other systems
SOPA is an example of sorts. We the people stopped the government from openly invading our privacy, in this one way, for now. But they still do it. Phones and 100% of internet use is still monitored, and has been for some time. We voted to keep it swept under the rug for now.
Local elections are different, I agree that individual votes will matter there. But who cares? The majority of meaningful policy is federal.
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I came to the conclusion that I wasn't going to vote this year. At first, I was going to vote for Ron Paul, but after seeing how he's completely sold out in his bid for the Republican party, I've given up. He had to become a staunch bible-thumping anti-abortionist to even be considered as a "real" Republican candidate. Seriously? What happened to separation of church and state? The rest of the Republican candidates are completely repulsive to me, and Obama is just meh.
On top of that you have the fact that our nation is a true idiocracy. Just look at our television ads and journalism. Advertisement is utter crap, designed around subliminal messaging to a sleeping populace. Journalism is even worse: pure sensationalism, or in the case of FOX, fabrication. But the fact is, the nation has tons of people that love watching FOX and believe all the drivel that comes out of the reporters' mouths. When you realize that the average IQ is 100, that means that fully 50% of our nation is below that. And these people are allowed to vote.
Even more worrisome is I'm not sure if their votes even affect the outcome of the system at all. The electoral college system results in a binary winner-takes-all system in each state, which means that any intelligent people who live in West Virginia might as well not exist for purposes of this election.
I guess what I'm trying to say here is that I really just don't care any more. America is fucked up, and I hope it goes down in flames.
edit: Holy shit, idiocracy is real. There was even a book written on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve#Policy_recommendations
edit2: Hmm... proving Republicans are stupid. The rest of the article is interesting, but you can just skip to the end if you want. http://lagriffedulion.f2s.com/retard.htm
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Hong Kong9151 Posts
People actually don't vote in the United States. In comparison to other democracies, the United States typically has significantly smaller voter turnout than its peers.
It comes down to people feeling that the costs of voting far outweigh the benefits of actually going out to vote. The costs are numerous: having to become knowledgable about the candidates, physically going out to the polling station, taking time off work in order to vote, etc. Along with those obvious costs, there are psychological costs as well: feeling like your vote is being wasted is the largest one. All this can, and does, add up to voting being very costly to the average American, and our voter turnout rates reflect this.
This relationship can be expressed in a formula:
Reward = (Probability of winning * Benefits of winning versus losing ) - Costs of voting
A lot of why this is so has to do with the prevalance of winner-take-all majoritarian voting systems in America. In addition, the constitution promotes the continuation of a two-party political consensus. Other democracies may operate in some sort of a proportional representation system, which promote the existence and significance of third parties, with alternative voting systems accompanying their elections. These end up increasing the utility of voting for the individual voter and leads to typically higher voter turnout rates.
For more information:
Rosenstone, Behr, and Lazarus. 1984 Third Parties in America: Citizen Response to Major Party Failure. Princeton. Princeton University Press..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_choice_theory
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_system
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A politician is like a used car salesman. Only this one only gets a chance to get that all important sale once every 2-4 years, and will do anything and everything in their power to get that sale.
Until people stop rewarding politicians who have proven to subscribe to the above statement, nothing will change.
Also, that Electoral College thingy. That probably needs to be looked at to. When the founding fathers figured that the average joe voter was stupid enough to need someone else to vote for them to select their figurehead, it amuses me. The fact that as the world has changed, grown, become quite global (manifest destiny in another form), that hasn't disappeared, worries me.
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Well, if you ever intend on running for public office (it doesn't sound like you do), not voting can come back to hurt you. Meg Whitman, who ran for governor of California in 2010, was dinged for not having voted for 19 years.
Here at college, if I vote I can probably convince a few of my friends to vote as well. Since they share a similar view of politics (it sucks, but the far right is crazy), it makes my vote count for a little more. Even though Massachusetts is usually reliably blue, we did get a Republican senator in 2010, so there's a something still worth voting for.
I guess it doesn't make too much sense in a state that is always one color or another, but Florida was decided by 537 votes in 2010.
And think about this: by not voting, you're amplifying the votes of the rabid partisans. People who get into power and abuse it count on your not-voting. That's one reason they end up getting away with so much.
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On March 02 2012 03:07 itsjustatank wrote:People actually don't vote in the United States. In comparison to other democracies, the United States typically has significantly smaller voter turnout than its peers. It comes down to people feeling that the costs of voting far outweigh the benefits of actually going out to vote. The costs are numerous: having to become knowledgable about the candidates, physically going out to the polling station, taking time off work in order to vote, etc. Along with those obvious costs, there are psychological costs as well: feeling like your vote is being wasted is the largest one. All this can, and does, add up to voting being very costly to the average American, and our voter turnout rates reflect this. This relationship can be expressed in a formula: Reward = (Probability of winning * Benefits of winning versus losing ) - Costs of voting A lot of why this is so has to do with the prevalance of winner-take-all majoritarian voting systems in America. In addition, the constitution promotes the continuation of a two-party political consensus. Other democracies may operate in some sort of a proportional representation system, which promote the existence and significance of third parties, with alternative voting systems accompanying their elections. These end up increasing the utility of voting for the individual voter and leads to typically higher voter turnout rates.
While all of that may be true, I would say it is a separate issue from what I brought up.
My reason for not voting isn't because I know my candidates won't win, but rather my belief that government is run by wealthy who use their positions to further their own interests. I think the problem is perpetual. Rich use positions of power to make themselves richer, which moves them even further to the top.
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I know with the electoral college being what it is your vote is basically worthless to begin with. Add on that the abortion that is the system now with "corporations being people", lobbying and all this BS and it's even more silly. The inmates run the asylum.
I like some things Obama has done, I hate some things he's done, and he's a pussy (along with democrats as a whole). The right wing is a bunch of lunatics to the man. RP has some alright ideas, but he's got way more awful ones than he does decent.
I've voted previously, but I don't think I will be this election. Absolutely no one represents me. Until the entire system gets a shakedown I don't see it getting better.
If a complete psychopath the likes of a Palin or Santorum get elected I'll be posting from somewhere in Scandinavia in the future.
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On March 02 2012 02:47 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
Only considering national elections. President, senator, etc.
I live in the USA, and I have never voted, though I've been of age for the last three presidential elections. At first it was because I lived in a state which has always been completely lopsided for one party. I felt like my vote didn't matter, which I realize is a point that many will argue. But, fu, the fact is that my state would elect republicans for national offices no matter what, period.
In the past few years, however, my reasons have changed a bit. Now I realize that I just have no faith in the electoral system. As much as I hate sounding like a long-boarding, clove-smoking,, hipster douche, I feel like the fact of the matter is that the wealthy elite of the country really do control everything. Business moguls and celebrities become senators, governors, and president. Our laws, regulations, and taxes are thought up and created by people who are wealthy and powerful. They've proven time and time again that they're willing to use their position to advance their own ends.
And of course, lobbyists. Whatever company, group, or individual has the most money can trade that cash in for political influence. Oil companies wine, dine, and bribe for the rights to drill in previously protected environmental areas. Religions collect hundreds of billions annually, tax-free mind you, and then turn around and pump that money right back into congress to support bills that they find morally correct.
I know that this is nothing new. Classes have existed since the beginning of civilization. What's infuriating is that Democracy is touted as a government of the people, where decisions and policies are made based on the will of the general public.
It's not. That's why I don't vote.
Is this a blog?
At the risk of being lumped in with you "hipster douches"  I third this entire sentiment. The time when politicians were respected public servants that tried to represent the will of their constituents is something of a fairy-tale in today's United States, they are all just celebriticians to me anymore. They get elected for a term and then they go off to shoot a reality show (I'm looking at you Sarah Palin, you frigid wacko). We have lost our electoral individuality and the ability to do much more than vote along the stilted lines of party politics :/
We are a nation of people just asking to be pandered to and reassured that we live in a safe little bubble far from the strife and war of those other places, which to most are just points on a globe and not really places at all, filled with thinking feeling individuals like us! Because if they were people like us, then how would we justify the tiresome meddling and war-mongering that is a part of our foreign policy?
People all over the place want us to think that the views of those "crazies" at the occupy wallstreet protests weren't indicitive of the changing political climate in this country and that the sentiments expressed by the majority of the people that have attended these and similar rallies; namely campaign funding reform and the end of corporate personhood, weren't in line with "mainstream" America, but they're wrong! We the people are sick of being balked and we're sick of our vote being a token of free-will at the most, we want our vote to matter, and it won't until we seriously reform our political system.
Down with party politics and business as usual! Lets all get out there and DO something, we are powerful and we are responsible for the current state of affairs and where we head as a nation in the future. Lobbyists and bankers can only hold onto power for so long before they are made superfluous by convergant technology such as social media and cheap easy journalism that the internet provides us all, the information is out there the impetus for change is nigh, repent all republicans and democrats!
Sorry got a little dramatic there at the end, but this shit is serious business! Thanks for the post, cheers mate!
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Vatican City State733 Posts
On March 02 2012 03:02 D10 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 02:57 ddrddrddrddr wrote:On March 02 2012 02:55 rapidash88 wrote:
Things like the resistance to SOPA have shown to me that people can still weild influence in government. In my local election, the vote for a city council seat was decided by two votes, and I was glad to have voted.
The issue in our national government is partly one of corruption (which happens in ALL governments to some extent) and the fact that our election system simple is not a very good one. The two party system that we have been forced into creates more corruption then other systems
Yeah, except if we have to put in that much effort for every bad law and policy that is made to make any difference at all, it already means democracy is totally useless. Yea, any system where a bum with no education that would trade his vote for food has the same say electing people as aristotle is bound to fail
This is one of the biggest issues for me. I spend time researching policies and examining philosophies before making my decision. Then Earl, the alcoholic high school dropout whose biggest thought for the day is "food is good," comes in and makes his decision based upon his the fact that candidate A shook his hand and seems like a really nice guy. Yet our votes count the same. As hard and dangerous as it would be, I believe the US needs to begin heading back to some sort of basic political competency test before allowing a person to vote. Not necessarily something hard, just a test to show that the person has some very basic idea of what is going on in the election/world.
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United States41965 Posts
Statistically no one vote ever makes a difference, no major election is decided by a single vote. The argument "but if everyone thought like that then..." is meaningless because there is no connection between your choice to vote and anyone else's, if you go into the ballot room and spoil your ballot then nobody else will do anything different because of it. There is absolutely no value to voting beyond any personal gratification you get out of it.
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I vote on smaller topics that will effect me locally/statewide, I will vote on governors and senate seats but I feel things like presidents are already decided in each state due to the joke of a system that is the electoral college, sure there are some states still up for grabs but there are many states that have been overwhelmingly Red or Blue since the beginning of the electoral college such as my home state as such I don't bother to vote.
Remove the electoral college and make every vote count!
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EPT
