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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On August 05 2019 03:23 Starlightsun wrote: There is not a "large segment of the population" that would rather die than not own guns. They would be upset and then move on with their lives. i wish if it were that easy would i even be talking here? no. because it't not. that. easy. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6213 Posts
On August 05 2019 02:32 Alejandrisha wrote: does canada have a chicago? a camden? oakland? no you don't. Toronto: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto Population (2016)[8][9][10][11] • Provincial capital city (single-tier) 2,731,571 (1st) • Density 4,334.4/km2 (11,226/sq mi) Chicago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago Population (2010)[6] • City 2,695,598 Density 11,898/sq mi (4,593.95/km2) Similar density, population, 8 hours apart by car. https://www.chicagotribune.com/data/ct-shooting-victims-map-charts-htmlstory.html 1517 people shot as of July 27th. https://data.torontopolice.on.ca/pages/shootings From here, shootings ytd: 230 instances, 349 victims. Maybe try something and get it down 75%? Absolutely retarded to see Republicans against any form of gun control because the demographic doing the most publicized shootings is also their key voting demographic. | ||
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Dromar
United States2145 Posts
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Jan1997
Norway671 Posts
It's a shame people are victims to violence, but this will never fully stop. | ||
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Slydie
1923 Posts
On August 05 2019 04:04 Jan1997 wrote: This whole mass shootings thing reminds me more and more of the circle of life repeating itself over and over. You can't get something without losing something. You arm your people and make guns legal you will benefit a lot of good people, but equally you benefit the bad people by throwing deadly fireams into circulation, both legally & illegaly. It's a shame people are victims to violence, but this will never fully stop. The big question is how much of a "benefit" it really is to make it easy for anyone to buy an assault rifle and turn it into an automatic legally. I guess it depends on what kind of culture you have grown up in, but I see guns as poison, I just don't want them near me as they cause way more harm than they hinder, the accidents alone is enough for me. A friend of mine can never run again because he as a teenager took a hunting shotgun down from the wall, fell and shot a huge hole in his leg. He was alone in the house and barely got to the phone to call emergency to save his life. GET THEM OUT OF MY SIGHT! | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7902 Posts
On August 05 2019 04:14 Slydie wrote: The big question is how much of a "benefit" it really is to make it easy for anyone to buy an assault rifle and turn it into an automatic legally. I guess it depends on what kind of culture you have grown up in, but I see guns as poison, I just don't want them near me as they cause way more harm than they hinder, the accidents alone is enough for me. A friend of mine can never run again because he as a teenager took a hunting shotgun down from the wall, fell and shot a huge hole in his leg. He was alone in the house and barely got to the phone to call emergency to save his life. GET THEM OUT OF MY SIGHT! Guns are tools to very efficiently transform people into tartare steaks. That’s literally their only function. The idea that every civilian should have the right to have a machine to tartarize people just completely eludes me. And don’t bring me the home defense thing. The sacred right to own a handgun at home is the same that will give your burglar a fucking shotgun and allow him to transform you into a strainer before you have time to play captain America. | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
8998 Posts
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micronesia
United States24701 Posts
On August 05 2019 04:45 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: Make the cost of bullets prohibitive. If we can't get rid of the guns, then make any and everything concerning them, expensive as shit. Bullets? $5000 PER. Magazines/clips/drums? $20k. Permits and everything cost a couple thousand and if you're gun is stolen and used in a crime, you're as liable as the perp. It was funny when Chris Rock said it, but equally logical as a policy. | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
8998 Posts
No but seriously, you have to get the basics taken care of first. Gun show loophole needs to be closed and registration should be expensive. Like they do for a security clearance, you have to list the past 10 years of your life and any other aliases and states where you lived. Then they check your background in those states as well to make sure you're not fleeing from a record. If you have negative marks on your record (serious shit like felonies) then you're denied and banned from every carrying. Just random thoughts on the matter. I'm not an expert. | ||
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Starlightsun
United States1405 Posts
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Mass-Shooting-Near-Douglas-Park-Playground-Police-518001731.html | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
8998 Posts
Insane. Had to be gang-related but still doesn't excuse it. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On August 05 2019 02:48 thePunGun wrote: The first step to solving a problem is realizing you have a problem. Since most politicians in the US are failing to recognize, lack of gun control is the main issue here and start implementing laws to prevent the crazies to get their hands on those guns, like everey other fucking country in the world, nothing will change! It's an idiotic cycle that will never change, a whole society lying to themselves, coming up with stupid arguments like: "It's obviously a mental health problem and not a gun problem" Like seriously every other fucking country has mental health problems, but their crazies don't fucking end up shooting dozens of people like every other fucking week. Get your heads out of the gutter and be fucking honest about the real issue here!!! Alright now that I got that out of my system, I'm back to lurk mode. Enjoy the rest of your weekend guys!  Lack of gun control is one of the proposed causes of the problem, or a way of stating your solution. Imagine if you had read someone else write On August 05 2019 02:48 thePunGun wrote: The first step to solving a problem is realizing you have a problem. Since most politicians in the US are failing to recognize, lack of armed and trained civilians is the main issue here So it's back to the second half of the point Alejandrisha made On August 04 2019 11:36 Alejandrisha wrote: i love that the right uses mass shootings as as way to promote gun proliferation and the left uses it to promote gun control. So just to let people know, identifying your cause of the problem as a key part in "realizing you have a problem" will get you nowhere. And whenever you're done lurking, I appreciate any responses. On August 05 2019 01:29 micronesia wrote: I think the confusion over the term "Assault rifle" may be what stops us from making progress on this issue for the next several decades. ShambhalaWar calls virtually all of the post, presumably including the above statement bullshit, and counters with: "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/16/americans-age-to-buy-ar15-assault-rifle-mass-shootings" Neither of these sources are relevant to the point Sermokala made. I'll second this, since the very passionate ShambalaWar just made this point again in his own way. I'll probably disagree with what progress will look like, but any points of agreement between us on progress are definitely hindered by "assault rifle" term use and abuse. Sermo is even justified in not going in depth; since the main ignorant opposition are secondarily rude and emotional. | ||
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KwarK
United States42960 Posts
On August 05 2019 01:03 Womwomwom wrote: There’s a certain amusement to see all of these politicians completely refuse to point out the problem is a combination of political radicalisation and ease of gun access. Well, I guess they do point out the political radicalisation issue. But they only direct it at the Antifa, whose sole mission is to beat up Nazis and no one else. Gee, if you had any clear cut efforts to stamp out the Nazis maybe the Antifa wouldn’t exist or have any legitimacy. My favourite take online was someone talking about how Orwellian (as in totalitarian, as described by George Orwell) antifa is and how they just want to control everyone's opinions and beat up anyone who disagrees with them. This is amusing because, of course, George Orwell was in the original antifa and fought the fascists in Spain. | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
On August 05 2019 06:39 KwarK wrote: My favourite take online was someone talking about how Orwellian (as in totalitarian, as described by George Orwell) antifa is and how they just want to control everyone's opinions and beat up anyone who disagrees with them. This is amusing because, of course, George Orwell was in the original antifa and fought the fascists in Spain. He even experienced first hand what communists can do to other leftist, Homage to Catalonia is a great book in this regard as well. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8111 Posts
On August 04 2019 21:38 Alejandrisha wrote: a very large segment of the population feels the need to arm themselves against, like i said, ridiculous ideas of post-apocalyptic despotism and it's written in our bill of rights that people should carry arms that can counter this. will there be people that take that and murder civilians? yes. but more often than not, people who arm themselves are good actors. It's not called "A few bad apples is ok", it's called "Bad apples spoils the bunch". The rest of the world has figured out that while the vast majority if gun owners are reasonable and smart, a minority of gun owners who aren't can do way too much damage. Human lives are worth more than peoples misbelief that they will somehow be safer if they own one. Besides, gun restrictions has never been about banning all guns for everyone always. It's about restricting it to the point where the unreasonable people won't bother to go through with it. Mandatory hunting courses and license for hunting rifles and shotguns, and mandatory gun club membership and an minimum active period for sports shooting is not unreasonable. If you do either of those two things it's a very small hoop to go through. But it's a big one for nefarious users. We don't have self defence as a reasonable reason for owning guns here, but in a vast country like the US then I can see some extreme rural areas where it's not entierly unreasonable. At which point mandatory self defence training courses should apply. Edit: Oh, and there's a bunch if laws around gun ownership that desperately needs cleaning up too. Like securing and storing. It's not reasonable that people can just lose guns willy nilly and get of scot free when they're then used for a murder. You fucked up by losing it, you are complicit. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25630 Posts
On August 05 2019 04:31 Biff The Understudy wrote: Guns are tools to very efficiently transform people into tartare steaks. That’s literally their only function. The idea that every civilian should have the right to have a machine to tartarize people just completely eludes me. And don’t bring me the home defense thing. The sacred right to own a handgun at home is the same that will give your burglar a fucking shotgun and allow him to transform you into a strainer before you have time to play captain America. They are a great physical equaliser though. I don’t fancy the chances of an elderly person or an average woman vs your average young man in any kind of home invasion scenario. I’m not making a pro gun argument in particular here, I think people underestimate quite how insurmountable that physical advantage us young males have over other people. We get a lot (or at least they’re publicised a lot) of burglaries and pretty brutal beatings with the occasional murder of the rural elderly over here, and there’s not much they can do if that scenario happens. | ||
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farvacola
United States18832 Posts
On August 05 2019 07:34 Wombat_NI wrote: They are a great physical equaliser though. I don’t fancy the chances of an elderly person or an average woman vs your average young man in any kind of home invasion scenario. I’m not making a pro gun argument in particular here, I think people underestimate quite how insurmountable that physical advantage us young males have over other people. We get a lot (or at least they’re publicised a lot) of burglaries and pretty brutal beatings with the occasional murder of the rural elderly over here, and there’s not much they can do if that scenario happens. That all rings true enough, but there’s still a lot to be said for how difficult it is to act under pressure, plus the task of operating a firearm competently, when it comes to postulating hypotheticals where homeowner guns are present. Guns as equalizers isn’t as widely applicable a concept in the self-defense context as it seems, imo. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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