EPTIf you're seeing this topic then another mass shooting hap…
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On March 21 2019 23:35 Danglars wrote: If what NZ did is marked as a success, you're taking steps backwards in the US gun debate. PM announces certain semi-auto rifles are now "military-style." Bans on any semi-automatic gun or shotgun capable of accepting detachable magazines above 5 rounds. Just what we needed in the US. More proof that gun control proponents will overreach, and people will just have to find ways around it in order to comply with nonsense. You do know NZ stands for New Zealand, right? This is literally another country that has nothing to do with the US laws. And there is broad support from all reports I am reading. Including support from the people who sell the guns. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Excludos
Norway8267 Posts
On March 21 2019 23:46 Velr wrote: Where exactly do you see the overreach? Do you need guns with more than 5 round mags for self defense, hunting or even sports shooting? I mean, do you use supression fire while hunting deer or confronting a burglar? I can answer for sports: Oh hell yes. A single course in a IPSC competition, of which there can be anything from 5-20 of depending on the size, can require anything from 12 to 36 bullets (or more if you miss) to complete. Imagine having to reload every fifth shot, that would be an absolute nightmare. But the thing about competition shooting is that in reasonable countries you are required to be an active member of a gun club for a while to be able to buy the guns required to compete in them. For Norway, after Breivik, you're required to be an active member (Active = actually showing up for practice) of a gun club for 2 years, and have competed in several lvl 3 tournaments, to be able to buy a semi automatic AR style rifle. Pistols are a bit easier of just 6 months active membership and one lvl 2 competition. If you're planning on murdering a bunch of people, being an active competitor for 2 years first is a pretty hefty setback. | ||
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Aveng3r
United States2411 Posts
On March 21 2019 23:46 Velr wrote: Where exactly do you see the overreach? Do you need guns with more than 5 round mags for self defense, hunting or even sports shooting? I mean, do you use supression fire while hunting deer or confronting a burglar? Yeah I don't get it either. This seems like an entirely reasonable step to take | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Excludos
Norway8267 Posts
On March 22 2019 00:56 JimmiC wrote: Reloading would just become part of the skill. People who were better it would rise up the ranks. It would change all the records and everything but so do lots of rule changes in other sports. edit: Not that I think that competitive shooters are the issue or an issue. Just pointing out that the 5 bullet rule wouldn't end competition just change it. It would completely change the sport like you said tho. It would no longer be a fast paced competition shooter, and instead turn into a slow paced reloading simulator. Slow paced/precision shooting competitions already exist and I don't do them for a reason; they're booooring. Run and gun is much more fun, but it wouldn't be with only 5 shots. A rule like that would immediately kill of that part of the sport I think. At least I wouldn't bother any more. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14155 Posts
Making an entire class of guns need a permit to own and then in the same speech as you introduce said class and permit you say "everyone don't worry theres no way we're going to actually give out the permit" is just werid. I mean I get the speech is introductory and just a way to get out the word that bans are coming stop selling scary guns we'll take care of the details later but come on. Also to the above conversation they said that they'll have a conversation on exemptions for sports clubs and whatnots. but beacuse they're still working on the vague agreement in principle they can't go into details yet. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Somehow, I doubt that is what you are looking to argue here. And in any case is not an "overreach". | ||
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Sermokala
United States14155 Posts
On March 22 2019 01:32 Dangermousecatdog wrote: That's rather convulated Sermakola, but what is sounds like you are saying is that the overreach is in that the regulation doesn't go far enough to completely ban semi-automatic weapons and merely makes it more difficult to procure a high capacity magazine which can be easily converted into and instead should instead completely ban semi-automatic weapons. Somehow, I doubt that is what you are looking to argue here. I'm saying the overreach is in that the announced law was easy for legitimate gun owners to get confused with if they're breaking the law or not and easier for people who want high capacity magazine equipped rifle to make it legal for them. There is no difference between a gun that can have a detachable magazine with a capacity of 5 and a capacity of 200. The tools needed to modify a shotgun or a rifle with a non detachable are simple and basic. The tools needed are as basic if not as simple. I'm saying its overeach to ban hacksaws screw drivers and heating coils in a crusade to ban scary weapons. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Who is banning hacksaws and screwdrivers and heating coils? What definition of overreach are you going through anyways? NZ lawmakers can pass any legislation they want within their own laws. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Sermokala
United States14155 Posts
On March 22 2019 02:04 Plansix wrote: Banning the tools that could be used to modify a weapon at all equalivant to banning the sale and ownership of mass produced weapon or accessory to a weapon. This has to be one of the intellectually bankrupt arguments made in debates about guns laws and I don’t know why we ever humor it. The annoucemet specificaly cited a ban on the tools and parts to convert a semi-automatic to a military style semi automatic. I didn't equate the two. This works as an answer to the other post above me. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Because that is what you actually wrote. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14155 Posts
On March 22 2019 02:20 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Again, who is banning hacksaws screw drivers and heating coils? Because that is what you actually wrote. The NZ government by banning and tools and parts capable of making a semi automatic gun into a military style semi automatic gun. I know its vauge and the annoucement isn't the law but thats the effect of what they annouced. Thats the theme of everything I've written so far | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On March 22 2019 03:15 Sermokala wrote: The NZ government by banning and tools and parts capable of making a semi automatic gun into a military style semi automatic gun. I know its vauge and the annoucement isn't the law but thats the effect of what they annouced. Thats the theme of everything I've written so far That is not what I have been reading in the reporting. They are banning commercially sold accessories that can be used to modify the weapon, not the tools themselves. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14155 Posts
On March 22 2019 03:27 Plansix wrote: That is not what I have been reading in the reporting. They are banning commercially sold accessories that can be used to modify the weapon, not the tools themselves. They don't have specifics beacuse its not real yet but her speech says tools and parts. Even if we could take it as "commercially sold accessories" you're talking springs basicaly becoming a black market item. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On March 22 2019 03:43 Sermokala wrote: They don't have specifics beacuse its not real yet but her speech says tools and parts. Even if we could take it as "commercially sold accessories" you're talking springs basicaly becoming a black market item. I feel like you can just apply ockham's razor to that statement, rather than assume they are going to ban hack saws and power drills. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On March 22 2019 03:15 Sermokala wrote: The NZ government by banning and tools and parts capable of making a semi automatic gun into a military style semi automatic gun. I know its vauge and the annoucement isn't the law but thats the effect of what they annouced. Thats the theme of everything I've written so far Ok, before we go any further, I need to know whether you genuinely think that the government of New Zealand are planning to "ban hacksaws screw drivers and heating coils in a crusade to ban scary weapons" ? Just so we know whether to take you seriously or not. Edit: This is a Yes or No question btw. | ||
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