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On February 20 2012 04:12 Yongwang wrote: Okay so what if it's a rapist or a serial killer? What if he wants more than just your wallet? What if he wants your life?
What if he has a GUN on top of that?
That would certainly make things a lot more scary than his intentions alone.
What if he does? What if he has a knife? What if he has a hand grenade? It doesn't matter what he is using, what matters is the scenario.
What? It absolutely does matter.
I'd certainly prefer it if he had a knife instead (grenades should be covered by the same laws that guns are anyway).
The scenario is different depending on how easy it is for him to hurt or kill you. And I would personally prefer the kind of scenario where he doesn't only have to move his finger by an inch at long range to do so.
With a knife, you'd have to get up close and personal with them, preferably with a knife of your own, and hope to hell they aren't bigger, stronger, or more experienced in a fight. With a gun, you just have to hope you get a shot off first, and you are the one with the home field advantage.
Are you serious?
I'm a programmer. He's a serial killer. Who shoots first?
There are only a few similar ways that scenario would end and none of them looks like something out of an episode of Chuck.
You're a programmer. He's a serial killer. Who wins in a knifefight? With guns in the mix, at least your neighbors might hear the gunshot and call the police and/or be there to apprehend your attacker.
On February 20 2012 04:29 Chanted wrote: I think people in the US are stuck in a "loop" that us europeans probably really cannot understand. In Norway nobody I know owns a gun, maybe one or 2 have hunting weapons, but I cant think of anyone I know who has a gun. The knowledge that (almost) nobody owns a gun here, makes it alot easier for us. I think that in the US, safety is tied up to owning a gun, and also the knowledge that "everyone" has a gun making it harder to be that person who says, oh lets try and change this, I dont need a gun, only to get gunned down or shot in his home by a criminal.
What I see as problematic is the lack of will towards making a change that is undoubtably for the better. ITS BETTER WHEN EVERYONE DOESNT HAVE A GUN. I understand why it wont happen over night, I just dont understand how Americans cant understand that statement.
Are you really so naive to believe that magical fairytales will happen if somehow all law abiding citizens didn't own a gun? At the end of the day, there is no reason for the government to take away our guns.
Well, I guess some people live in constant fear and some dont. those who do, will most likely need their guns to feel notso frightened all the time. Those who dont, will have a much more chilled life anyway.
I just want to throw this in, i shot a gun for the first time when i was 18, to be fair its a lot of fun i wouldn't shoot a living thing, but hell shooting a gun makes you feel like a total bad ass and is difficult/fun.
On February 20 2012 04:31 Dizmaul wrote: Why has crime in the US been on the decline since the early 90's????
We might have the highest rate but that is not the only number that matters.
I'm almost positive this was brought up before, but you guys just don't care haha.
Crime has been on the decline since before the 90s, I'd say it really hit the turning point in the late 1980s, when concealed carry was first introduced. Over the past 15 years, gun laws in the US have been loosened and we have seen a rise in gun rights. The more gun rights people have, the less crime there is.
On February 20 2012 03:15 Maitolasi wrote: My opinion is that all automatic weapons and pistols should be illegal and only guns that are mainly used for hunting should be allowed.
Automatic weapons I could understand, but there's still a much stronger argument for supporting the right to own a machine gun than there is against the right. However, why in the world would you want to ban pistols? I assume in your ideal world rifles and shotguns would be extremely regulated to the point where they were impossible to own as well?
Hunting rifles are for shooting animals. Hand guns or automatic weapons are used only to kill humans and nothing else.
If you are buying a hand gun and don't meant to shoot another human being then you shouldn't buy it in the first place. If you buy a hand gun and do mean to shoot another human being you should be kept far away from weapons of any kind.
This is my opinion of course. If more than 50% of the population of a given country thinks hand guns are cool they are free to use their democratic power and elect people who will give them that right. It still doesn't make it a good idea of course, but people are free to do what they want with themselfs. In the meant time I'm just happy I live in the part of the civilized world that is actually civilized.
A hunting rifle can kill a person just as well as a pistol or an assault rifle. Also there are a thousand things you can do other than "commit crimes" with pistols and even assault rifles. Your entire argument falls apart at the seams, since following that logic nobody should be allowed to defend themselves. What about target shooting? Gun collecting? And sports/competitive shooting?
Those are all perversions of hobbies and should be banned as well. Problem solved.
Perversions of hobbies? What exactly do you mean by that? I'll admit, I've never gone hunting, but I still own several guns, I enjoy recreational target shooting, and once I'm 21 I am going to concealed carry. I've never killed anyone (not even in self-defense), I don't feel as though I'm committing some sort of "perversion." It's like the old saying, I'd rather have one and not need it, than need one and not have it.
That people that make a sport out of playing with instruments that has but one purpose -- killing should find themselves a different hobby, one not quite as, ehh, morally corrupt.
Guns are tools, just like anything else, they have several purposes and there's nothing wrong with having a gun-related hobby. So you want to force people who you feel are "morally corrupt," to live their lives how you want them to? Sounds a lot like those religious nutjobs who hates homosexuality and even Hitler.
No I want people to not have stupid hobbies. If someone's hobby was to drive through kindergartens at 150km /hour I'd have a problem with that, or if their hobby was making dynamite. Gun related hobbies, to me, are literally "in the case that I had to kill another living being, let's try and measure how good I'd be at it".
So because you fail to understand something, it should be banned? As another member said, what about bows? What about swords? What about knives? All of these were invented to kill as well. What about cars? Cars were invented as machines of war as well, should we ban all cars?
I'm just going to re-add the most hilarious part of your post: "Oh wait, I'm talking to Europeans, they'll probably say we should ban all cars since they worship that whole global warming thing and think cars and humans are the only reason in the world that temperatures could ever rise."
The ignorance in your post is just astounding. While I agree that OrchidThief doesn't seem to understand the pleasure of target shooting the rest of your post is just, I don't know what to say. Bows were invented not for war but for hunting. Their secondary purpose has, however, been war. Between tribes and later between fiefdoms. Swords are indeed weapons of war and should be concidered as such. There is pretty much no reason to have swords in your possession unless you collect them. Knives were invented for culinary purposes. Skinning killed animals, dicing them up and throwing them into the pot. Not for self defense or war. Naturally they are useful for this purpose but to claim they were invented for that purpose is bogus. Cars were never invented as machines of war, they were invented as a means of transportation. The only way for this to make even a little sense is if you are trying to equate cars with tanks, but that scores very highly on my "redicolous arguments" scoreboard. And then you end on the most ignorant point of all, so ignorant that I'm not going to address it at all. Thanks for the laugh though.
On February 20 2012 04:27 OrchidThief wrote:In the end guns or no guns is a matter of how much people basically value a human life. You can't quantify it through graphs. Either life is sacred and taking one in self defense is the worst crime you can commit, or taking one in self defense is alright because it was the right thing to do.
I don't see how that has anything to do with gun controll at all.
Because the main argument against gun control is that people can use them for self defense. If this is true, then taking that persons life is also implied as a possible consequence and thus it's a discussion of the value of human life.
While I agree that OrchidThief doesn't seem to understand the pleasure of target shooting the rest of your post is just, I don't know what to say.
Well I do, but I play darts or something instead. It's the fact that you need a gun to show how precise you are that I find repulsive because of what the intend of guns is.
On February 20 2012 04:31 Dizmaul wrote: Why has crime in the US been on the decline since the early 90's????
We might have the highest rate but that is not the only number that matters.
I'm almost positive this was brought up before, but you guys just don't care haha.
Crime has been on the decline since before the 90s, I'd say it really hit the turning point in the late 1980s, when concealed carry was first introduced. Over the past 15 years, gun laws in the US have been loosened and we have seen a rise in gun rights. The more gun rights people have, the less crime there is.
On February 20 2012 04:31 Dizmaul wrote: Why has crime in the US been on the decline since the early 90's????
We might have the highest rate but that is not the only number that matters.
I'm almost positive this was brought up before, but you guys just don't care haha.
Crime has been on the decline since before the 90s, I'd say it really hit the turning point in the late 1980s, when concealed carry was first introduced. Over the past 15 years, gun laws in the US have been loosened and we have seen a rise in gun rights. The more gun rights people have, the less crime there is.
Strange how people just refuse to accept this.
It's because their European governments and the European Union are brainwashing them and telling them that they should all hand in their guns and worship Barosso.
If guns are banned in the US, wouldn't we just have a "war on guns" now we got a "war on drugs" scenario where there is a black market, drug/weapon dealers making big bucks and causing havoc. Oh wait, "war on drugs" need to be stopped and let the us be
On February 20 2012 04:31 Dizmaul wrote: Why has crime in the US been on the decline since the early 90's????
We might have the highest rate but that is not the only number that matters.
I'm almost positive this was brought up before, but you guys just don't care haha.
Crime has been on the decline since before the 90s, I'd say it really hit the turning point in the late 1980s, when concealed carry was first introduced. Over the past 15 years, gun laws in the US have been loosened and we have seen a rise in gun rights. The more gun rights people have, the less crime there is.
On February 20 2012 04:31 Dizmaul wrote: Why has crime in the US been on the decline since the early 90's????
We might have the highest rate but that is not the only number that matters.
I'm almost positive this was brought up before, but you guys just don't care haha.
Crime has been on the decline since before the 90s, I'd say it really hit the turning point in the late 1980s, when concealed carry was first introduced. Over the past 15 years, gun laws in the US have been loosened and we have seen a rise in gun rights. The more gun rights people have, the less crime there is.
Strange how people just refuse to accept this.
It's because their European governments and the European Union are brainwashing them and telling them that they should all hand in their guns and worship Barosso.
On February 20 2012 03:41 Yongwang wrote: Why are Europeans even bothering to post in this thread?
Because it is an international forum that holds a significant amount of its members outside the USA...?
That's fine, but they're trying to tell people in other countries how to run their countries and how to live their lives, and that's crossing the line.
[b]rofl irony much[B]
I was going to say this but halfway through my reply I figured he must of been trolling, but from this new responses I do not think he is...
I think that no one should carry guns except those who need them
On February 20 2012 04:31 Dizmaul wrote: Why has crime in the US been on the decline since the early 90's????
We might have the highest rate but that is not the only number that matters.
I'm almost positive this was brought up before, but you guys just don't care haha.
Crime has been on the decline since before the 90s, I'd say it really hit the turning point in the late 1980s, when concealed carry was first introduced. Over the past 15 years, gun laws in the US have been loosened and we have seen a rise in gun rights. The more gun rights people have, the less crime there is.
Strange how people just refuse to accept this.
Might be because it's not true.
Sweden, one of the few countries where firearm ownership is rife. You have extremely low crime rates, yet you have a lot of guns and (compared to most of Europe) very loose gun laws.
On February 20 2012 04:12 Yongwang wrote: Okay so what if it's a rapist or a serial killer? What if he wants more than just your wallet? What if he wants your life?
What if he has a GUN on top of that?
That would certainly make things a lot more scary than his intentions alone.
What if he does? What if he has a knife? What if he has a hand grenade? It doesn't matter what he is using, what matters is the scenario.
What? It absolutely does matter.
I'd certainly prefer it if he had a knife instead (grenades should be covered by the same laws that guns are anyway).
The scenario is different depending on how easy it is for him to hurt or kill you. And I would personally prefer the kind of scenario where he doesn't only have to move his finger by an inch at long range to do so.
With a knife, you'd have to get up close and personal with them, preferably with a knife of your own, and hope to hell they aren't bigger, stronger, or more experienced in a fight. With a gun, you just have to hope you get a shot off first, and you are the one with the home field advantage.
Are you serious?
I'm a programmer. He's a serial killer. Who shoots first?
There are only a few similar ways that scenario would end and none of them looks like something out of an episode of Chuck.
You're a programmer. He's a serial killer. Who wins in a knifefight? With guns in the mix, at least your neighbors might hear the gunshot and call the police and/or be there to apprehend your attacker.
Yeah, after I'm DEAD.
Thinking you have ANY KIND of advantage in a gun-to-gun scenario against somebody who has fired a gun in the past with intent to harm/kill is borderline delusional. This is not a game, whatever theoretical advantages you have you'll be pissing away in fear.
In a knife scenario, there is no knife fight. There's me running the hell away (natural instinct that kicks in instantly) making as much noise and dialing as many numbers as possible. With a greater probability of avoiding lethal wounds in any scenario. If he ever manages to get near to me in the first place.
On February 20 2012 04:31 Dizmaul wrote: Why has crime in the US been on the decline since the early 90's????
We might have the highest rate but that is not the only number that matters.
I'm almost positive this was brought up before, but you guys just don't care haha.
Crime has been on the decline since before the 90s, I'd say it really hit the turning point in the late 1980s, when concealed carry was first introduced. Over the past 15 years, gun laws in the US have been loosened and we have seen a rise in gun rights. The more gun rights people have, the less crime there is.
Strange how people just refuse to accept this.
It's because the European Union is brainwashing them and telling them that they should all hand in their guns and worship Barosso.
If they want to be powerless against those who do have guns, being their own governments, and ours, then let them.
On February 20 2012 04:31 Dizmaul wrote: Why has crime in the US been on the decline since the early 90's????
We might have the highest rate but that is not the only number that matters.
I'm almost positive this was brought up before, but you guys just don't care haha.
Crime has been on the decline since before the 90s, I'd say it really hit the turning point in the late 1980s, when concealed carry was first introduced. Over the past 15 years, gun laws in the US have been loosened and we have seen a rise in gun rights. The more gun rights people have, the less crime there is.
Strange how people just refuse to accept this.
It's because their European governments and the European Union are brainwashing them and telling them that they should all hand in their guns and worship Barosso.
Ok, you talk about brainwashing and YOU post a pure disgusting propaganda video which states that the jews inbetween 33-45 died because there was no gun allowing law?? And YOU talk about brainwashing? Seriously, you make me pitty you.
Your life must be so hard, living in a constant fear.
On February 20 2012 04:31 Dizmaul wrote: Why has crime in the US been on the decline since the early 90's????
We might have the highest rate but that is not the only number that matters.
I'm almost positive this was brought up before, but you guys just don't care haha.
Crime has been on the decline since before the 90s, I'd say it really hit the turning point in the late 1980s, when concealed carry was first introduced. Over the past 15 years, gun laws in the US have been loosened and we have seen a rise in gun rights. The more gun rights people have, the less crime there is.
Strange how people just refuse to accept this.
Most European countires have a murder rate 5 times lower than USA.
Lot's of factors could result in lower crimes. Though not PC (especially in america), legalized abortion may have contributed a lot to the lower crime rates in the USA according to the authors of Freakonomics.
EPT
