EPTIf you're seeing this topic then another mass shooting hap…
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Kickboxer
Slovenia1308 Posts
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Sweetfrost
Sweden213 Posts
On December 25 2012 14:49 mynameisgreat11 wrote: LOL at people who don't know that you can own an M-4. LOL at you for thinking that it's normal to know such a thing. | ||
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Hertzy
Finland355 Posts
On December 25 2012 19:41 Kickboxer wrote: So, how many more tragedies until the gun lovers change their tune? Here's my problem with your post; every time there's a firearm related tragedy, people start screaming for tighter gun legislation. Hell, it even happens in Finland. Meanwhile, a tragedy of a similar scale happens several times a day on the freeway and it doesn't mae the news and nobody suggests banning private cars. Well I'm a person that doesn't own or particularly need a car and I'd be fine and dandy paying that price for all the lives saved by banning private cars. | ||
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gameguard
Korea (South)2132 Posts
On December 25 2012 22:07 Hertzy wrote: Here's my problem with your post; every time there's a firearm related tragedy, people start screaming for tighter gun legislation. Hell, it even happens in Finland. Meanwhile, a tragedy of a similar scale happens several times a day on the freeway and it doesn't mae the news and nobody suggests banning private cars. Well I'm a person that doesn't own or particularly need a car and I'd be fine and dandy paying that price for all the lives saved by banning private cars. the difference is that cars are pretty much essential for our day to day activities while guns are not | ||
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Keldrath
United States449 Posts
On December 25 2012 22:07 Hertzy wrote: Here's my problem with your post; every time there's a firearm related tragedy, people start screaming for tighter gun legislation. Hell, it even happens in Finland. Meanwhile, a tragedy of a similar scale happens several times a day on the freeway and it doesn't mae the news and nobody suggests banning private cars. Well I'm a person that doesn't own or particularly need a car and I'd be fine and dandy paying that price for all the lives saved by banning private cars. Car accidents are just that, accidents. and car's are integral to making the world work the way it does right now, without them the global economy would collapse, you can't just ban them. It's an easy thing to say if you live in europe or a place with good public transportation, but in places like the united states, you don't have massive public transit stations, there's no subways or trains to take you where you need to go and the places you work are in the cities, whereas most that work their live outside of the cities, and city buses are few and could not support large amounts of people. It's just not a viable thing to do. Pretty much the only place in the us that does have good public transport is new york city, the rest of the country doesn't have anything like that. | ||
zatic
Zurich15366 Posts
On December 25 2012 08:31 AmericanNightmare wrote: Question for Europeans... I notice a lot of people say it's very hard to get a gun illegally in your country. But realistically how hard would it be for someone, let's say.. in Germany, to get a gun from a friend in Switzerland and then conceal it back to Germany? Would I be incorrect to assume that it shouldn't be that hard? Sure, if you have a "friend" that will illegally sell you a gun that is registered to him (who in their right mind would do that?), then it would be easy to get a gun illegally. It's just not a scenario that will happen. It's probably much easier to simply get your license and get a gun legally in most of Europe. It will take a while though. So yeah, it is very hard to get a gun quickly in Europe, legal or illegal. See here: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=241586 | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On December 25 2012 23:13 zatic wrote: Sure, if you have a "friend" that will illegally sell you a gun that is registered to him (who in their right mind would do that?), then it would be easy to get a gun illegally. It's just not a scenario that will happen. It's probably much easier to simply get your license and get a gun legally in most of Europe. It will take a while though. So yeah, it is very hard to get a gun quickly in Europe, legal or illegal. See here: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=241586 Well if I remember correctly those accidents that happened in Germany usually ended up being family members of someone legally owning a gun. A son knowing where daddy keeps the key for the locked gun isn't that unlikely (in comparision to the scenario you quoted) and was the reason we had the discussion to keep guns locked at shooting ranges instead. Because frankly speaking being safe against those kind of accidents is pretty naive imo. No idea if it's really anything like the majority of accidents that happened that way but I think I remember some and I can't really picture someone getting a gun in any other way. Edit: Just to put emphasize on the fact that someone getting a gun more or less spontanous when he's mad really isn't something that's happening at all, except for the example situation I just mentioned. | ||
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WTFZerg
United States704 Posts
On December 25 2012 21:39 Sweetfrost wrote: LOL at you for thinking that it's normal to know such a thing. Normal is irrelevant when it comes to firearms because people constantly spout uninformed, political terminology that just makes them look like morons. It's a lot like most technical things, really. Cars, computers, guns, etc all have people that pretend to know what they're talking about just to have an opinion. Oh, and yeah, it is pretty normal to know stuff, regardless of what it is. | ||
micronesia
United States24793 Posts
On December 25 2012 19:34 foxmeep wrote: A gun isn't the only means of protecting your family. Ever heard of a lock? Even a taser would be a viable option over a gun. Edit: Hypothetical question to all you pro-gun people out there. If the government issued an assault rifle to every single adult in the US so they had the means to defend themselves, would you support this? I'm not die-hard pro gun like some people in this thread, but I would not support it because only people who are willing to train with a gun should have one, if at all. Just thrusting guns into untrained, uninterested people's laps is not a good idea in my opinion. Someone who wants to have a gun at home for self defense should bring their gun to a range and practice with it. | ||
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Zealotdriver
United States1557 Posts
On December 26 2012 00:26 micronesia wrote: I'm not die-hard pro gun like some people in this thread, but I would not support it because only people who are willing to train with a gun should have one, if at all. Just thrusting guns into untrained, uninterested people's laps is not a good idea in my opinion. Someone who wants to have a gun at home for self defense should bring their gun to a range and practice with it. Training is essential for two main reasons: 1. It educates gun owners about safe handling and operating. I have had guns malfunction and fire even when the trigger was not pulled. Nobody was hurt because I always kept the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. Some people will do this because it is obvious, but some people need to be told to always point the gun away from yourself and other people. Here is a gory picture of a possible consequence of carelessness, via Reddit of a guy who shot himself in the foot with a shotgun. http://i.imgur.com/3YvwG.jpg If he had been conditioned to not point the shotgun at his foot, this would not have happened. 2. Safety and accuracy training creates an opportunity for social interaction that could provide an early warning about dangerous individuals. | ||
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AmericanNightmare
United States98 Posts
On December 25 2012 08:48 KosQ wrote: I don't know anyone that owns a gun, not in Germany or in Switzerland for my part... The point is rather that if you turn the question around, you would have to ask "is it easier to get a weapon legally or illegally in the USA". Depends on what you think is easier.. I would say getting a gun legally is easier. It's safe.. not to mention legal. I would have much more options and it's legal.. I might have to wait 12-24 hours to get it.. I could possibly have in in 2 hours.. I've never received a gun in under 2 hours.. I'll answer some questions and talk to someone on the phone, but in the end I'll walk out with what I want.. Illegally could be easier.. Should you know people it would be very easy.. But it's not like you have much choice in what you're gonna get. When you run the black market you also run the risk.. It might not fire.. it could blow up in your hand.. it could have been used to kill a cop a few states over.. If by easy you mean "quickest and with no difficulty" the illegally.. if by easy you mean "safe and minimal hassle" then legally.. On December 25 2012 08:58 mahrgell wrote: and how does your friend in switzerland get a gun? o.O Not like it would be easily possible there to get a gun... On December 25 2012 23:13 zatic wrote: Sure, if you have a "friend" that will illegally sell you a gun that is registered to him (who in their right mind would do that?), then it would be easy to get a gun illegally. It's just not a scenario that will happen. It's probably much easier to simply get your license and get a gun legally in most of Europe. It will take a while though. So yeah, it is very hard to get a gun quickly in Europe, legal or illegal. See here: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=241586 (Thanks for the link.. I learned a bit) Let's say it's not his gun.. I'm a tourist from America, who happens to be the guys friend.. I offer him twice the store price if he were to steal his neighbors pistol (we'll say it's some old guy who won't notice it gone for maybe a week) What counter-measures are around Europe that would stop me from taking this pistol to any other country? On December 25 2012 10:37 JingleHell wrote: + Show Spoiler + On December 25 2012 10:31 Romantic wrote: If they try taking my guns they will quickly find out that I have "lost" all of the guns I had and can't seem to find them. I'll be damned if anyone thinks they can repeal the second amendment and confiscate guns. They'd need an incredible amount of federal police strength they do not have and they'd better be prepared for regular gun fights. Oops, damn those gun shows I sold mine at. Too bad I'm not an FFL, or there'd be a paper trail, but I just can't remember that guy's name... The day my guns are to be confiscated is same day someone's "broken" into my house. They stole all my guns and maybe even took something else of value, but I'm to distraught to think clearly. Thank God they didn't trash my house though. On December 25 2012 14:31 mynameisgreat11 wrote: [For the record I own an M-4 and two .22's. Thank God that gun laws will be tightening soon. The same right that allows you to be armed puts me in danger. You said yourself that having those guns puts you and anyone who ever comes in contact with you in danger.. Do the responsible thing and turn those things in.. before you become another statistic. | ||
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Donger
United States147 Posts
On December 25 2012 19:34 foxmeep wrote: A gun isn't the only means of protecting your family. Ever heard of a lock? Even a taser would be a viable option over a gun. Edit: Hypothetical question to all you pro-gun people out there. If the government issued an assault rifle to every single adult in the US so they had the means to defend themselves, would you support this? I would support this because I believe here in America there are significantly more good people than there are bad. | ||
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dontforgetosmile
87 Posts
On December 25 2012 22:18 gameguard wrote: the difference is that cars are pretty much essential for our day to day activities while guns are not if you think about it. you're justifying death with convenience. | ||
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Donger
United States147 Posts
On December 25 2012 22:18 gameguard wrote: the difference is that cars are pretty much essential for our day to day activities while guns are not We could ban all privately owned cars. That would be more in line with the argument. That way we cut down on carbon emissions making the world a better place too. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14187 Posts
On December 26 2012 03:26 dontforgetosmile wrote: if you think about it. you're justifying death with convenience. Then its the same argument for allowing people to have cars and other household objects that kill more people then guns. Hundreds of farmers die every year in farming acidents but no one ever gives a shit about making it safer for them. | ||
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mynameisgreat11
599 Posts
On December 25 2012 21:39 Sweetfrost wrote: LOL at you for thinking that it's normal to know such a thing. If you're going to debate about gun laws, learning what is currently illegal or legal is a good place to start. | ||
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Zandar
Netherlands1541 Posts
On December 25 2012 22:07 Hertzy wrote: Here's my problem with your post; every time there's a firearm related tragedy, people start screaming for tighter gun legislation. Hell, it even happens in Finland. Meanwhile, a tragedy of a similar scale happens several times a day on the freeway and it doesn't mae the news and nobody suggests banning private cars. Well I'm a person that doesn't own or particularly need a car and I'd be fine and dandy paying that price for all the lives saved by banning private cars. That's because cars are not meant for killing people. When it happens it's an accident. Guns are made with the purpose to kill, either animals or humans. | ||
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Millitron
United States2611 Posts
On December 26 2012 03:23 Donger wrote: I would support this because I believe here in America there are significantly more good people than there are bad. Locks don't always stop criminals. If they want in, they're getting in. Tasers are a good option for self-defense against criminals, but that's not why I feel everyone should have a gun. The self-defense argument isn't important to me. I care about being able to defend my rights against tyranny. I would support the assault rifle thing as well, under the assumption that not absolutely everyone gets an assault rifle. I don't want the mentally ill, or felons to have assault rifles. Everyone else though should have one. I am all for background checks, and safety courses for handguns. Other than that though, you should be able to buy any gun you want. If I want a 155mm howitzer, I should be able to just get background checked and be on my way, howitzer in tow. On December 26 2012 04:01 Zandar wrote: That's because cars are not meant for killing people. When it happens it's an accident. Guns are made with the purpose to kill, either animals or humans. I have a rifle. I've fired it numerous times. I've never killed anything with it, and not because I missed. | ||
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mynameisgreat11
599 Posts
On December 26 2012 03:38 Donger wrote: We could ban all privately owned cars. That would be more in line with the argument. That way we cut down on carbon emissions making the world a better place too. I've heard people in this thread saying if we ban guns, then we should also ban cigarettes, cars, alcohol, farm equipment, and everything else that we see in our daily lives that is capable of inflicting personal injury (i.e., everything). Most of these things are essential, or at least very helpful to our daily lives. Most of them have astronomically low chances of causing harm. Almost all of them were not created with the explicit purpose to kill. Taking this same logic the other direction, why shouldn't every home have the right to bombs? Nuclear weapons? Obviously some sort of balance needs to be struck between benefits and costs. Pencils can be lethal, but the benefits vastly outweigh the risk. Cars are a little less clear, but most would still agree that the benefits outweigh costs. I would argue that guns move even further away, and that their costs outweigh their benefits. | ||
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Zandar
Netherlands1541 Posts
- ok everyone can have a gun license, it's in our constitution anyway so it's hard to change - you have to attend hunting class 2 full work days each month, do a 20 pages test and a shooting test each month or you will lose your license | ||
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