EPT![[image loading]](http://soldmyseoul.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/musket.jpg)
Not these:
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No one should have the power to kill groups of people in a matter of seconds. Gun technology has gone way way way too far.
If you're seeing this topic then another mass shooting hap…
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J_Slim
United States199 Posts
Not these: No one should have the power to kill groups of people in a matter of seconds. Gun technology has gone way way way too far. | ||
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Monsen
Germany2548 Posts
Just think of all the jobs that would create. You'd need a huge industry for armor and vests from child sized to comfy wear for seniors that can't handle helmets that are too heavy. Also you could have custom made camouflage or even fashion. Armor/helmet fashion shows, wouldn't that be a thing- you could have them next to the latest gun exhibition. It's a win/win as far as I see it. The Gun nuts are happy, the parents whose children don't get shot are happy the industry is happy: everyone is happy ! | ||
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ppshchik
United States862 Posts
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Reaps
United Kingdom1280 Posts
On December 17 2012 02:18 Linkirvana wrote: Well that sure helps, you expect me to read 238 pages of what I can only assume is mostly shitty arguments? A link perhaps, your personal opinion? I can't argue with this Ok fair enough, i dont blame you for not reading through this topic, it is a mess i must admit. However i'll tell you why i think it is a weak arguement, but only going to say it one more time. No one is saying that banning firearms will stop these shootings all together, but they will make it HARDER thats the keyword here, harder. Take friday for example if the shooter's mom was not able to buy those guns legally then the killer would of either had to think of another way to carry out the attack, this could be a number of things. Any kind of explosives being made by someone like him is extremly unlikely, maybe a car? but you cant exatcly drive a car into a school with much effect. There is also a knife, but as we saw in china, a knife is no where near as effective as a gun can be. So a gun was obvouisly his main choice, however if there were stricter gun laws or the laws removed all together he would of had to buy them illegally from somewhere, of course this is always a option but it also gives him a good chance to get caught but not only that it gives him time to think. This will delay the whole thing and make it much harder for him to do what he wants. Hopefully in situations like that he would rethink the whole thing completly and leave the kids out of it and just kill himself. Who knows, im not saying that would happen 100% because it won't, but its a step in the right direction. | ||
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3Form
United Kingdom389 Posts
On December 17 2012 02:18 Linkirvana wrote: Well that sure helps, you expect me to read 238 pages of what I can only assume is mostly shitty arguments? A link perhaps, your personal opinion? I can't argue with this "Weapons are available legally, well that sure makes my plan to murder 20 people much easier!" Said lots of of people. | ||
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SayGen
United States1209 Posts
My thoughts are summed up like this on the issue. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On December 17 2012 02:37 SayGen wrote: http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=460530213984411&set=a.407736482597118.79825.407730632597703&type=1&theater My thoughts are summed up like this on the issue. SayGen I've always known your thoughts were limited to semi-clever signs :O | ||
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Linkirvana
Netherlands365 Posts
On December 17 2012 02:32 Reaps wrote: Ok fair enough, i dont blame you for not reading through this topic, it is a mess i must admit. However i'll tell you why i think it is a weak arguement, but only going to say it one more time. No one is saying that banning firearms will stop these shootings all together, but they will make it HARDER thats the keyword here, harder. Take friday for example if the shooter's mom was not able to buy those guns legally then the killer would of either had to think of another way to carry out the attack, this could be a number of things. Any kind of explosives being made by someone like him is extremly unlikely, maybe a car? but you cant exatcly drive a car into a school with much effect. There is also a knife, but as we saw in china, a knife is no where near as effective as a gun can be. So a gun was obvouisly his main choice, however if there were stricter gun laws or the laws removed all together he would of had to buy them illegally from somewhere, of course this is always a option but it also gives him a good chance to get caught but not only that it gives him time to think. This will delay the whole thing and make it much harder for him to do what he wants. Hopefully in situations like that he would rethink the whole thing completly and leave the kids out of it and just kill himself. Who knows, im not saying that would happen 100% of time, but its a step in the right direction. I completely disagree. You are purely theorycrafting here, America is literally the only country in the world where these extreme cases happen on a semi-regular basis. When's the last time you've heard about a shooting in Austria, where people also have legal access to firearms? Besides all the actual evidence that shows there's no correlation between crime or excessive crime and whether or not a country allows gun possession I find it also pretty rediculous that you suggest that someone who wants to commit excessive crimes is delayed by the fact that gun possession is illegal. Getting caught? Ha, if he'd be asking the police officer where to buy a gun illegally then yeah, I guess that's a realistic option. Last time I checked cops don't spent their time going undercover trying to sell guns, not to small-time 1 time buyers anyways. Makes him think? Laughable argument in my opinion, people who do these excessive things don't often think very rationally. The far more logical conclusion is that gun violence in the US is a human problem instead of a gun problem. It's like with heroin, go make heroin legal and watch how many people will actually go and use it. You'd find the amount of addicts to be the same. I mean seriously, how many people do you know that don't use heroin because it's illegal, instead of that shit being fucked up? Same thing applies to my gun argument, how many people do you think there are that aren't committing all kinds of horrible crimes simply because guns are illegal? I would argue pretty much none, they're not committing those crimes because that shit is fucked up. Key is education, if your people know it's a dumbass thing to do to randomly shoot people than they won't. If someone thinks that would be cool/not immoral then why in the hell would you expect that person to have any trouble obtaining a gun illegally? I don't see any answer that isn't completely far-fetched and circumstantial. | ||
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Linkirvana
Netherlands365 Posts
On December 17 2012 02:34 3Form wrote: "Weapons are available legally, well that sure makes my plan to murder 20 people much easier!" Said lots of of people. Because buying a an illegal gun is so, so hard. So hard that it totally makes me want to give up on that plan to murder dozens of people. | ||
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ZeaL.
United States5955 Posts
On December 17 2012 02:51 Linkirvana wrote: Because buying a an illegal gun is so, so hard. So hard that it totally makes me want to give up on that plan to murder dozens of people. Hypothetically speaking, if obtaining a gun was much harder then there would be fewer spur of the moment type homicides so while you can't really prevent the uber motivated, you can at least deter the not quite as uberly motivated. | ||
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Kaitlin
United States2958 Posts
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Gatsbi
United States1134 Posts
On December 17 2012 02:51 Linkirvana wrote: Because buying a an illegal gun is so, so hard. So hard that it totally makes me want to give up on that plan to murder dozens of people. I honestly have no idea how to go about buying a gun illegally, do you? | ||
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Linkirvana
Netherlands365 Posts
On December 17 2012 03:06 ZeaL. wrote: Hypothetically speaking, if obtaining a gun was much harder then there would be fewer spur of the moment type homicides so while you can't really prevent the uber motivated, you can at least deter the not quite as uberly motivated. I will gladly agree on the point that it would deter the not so very motivated. I don't think I can necesarrily agree with the fewer spur of the moment type homicides, taking guns out of that equation in moments where people have A) no access to other weapons (Such as knives, bats or even their own hands) and B) Obtained that weapon legally then I don't think there's much left to argue for in my opinion. What's then left is possibly less weapons among thieves, whether street robbers or house robbers. People who I'd put in the not so motivated category. However this is balanced by the fact that law-abiding citizens won't have guns either. Which doesn't make your argument entirely invalid, however that does make it a lot less important. Therefor I still stand by my claim that in most relevant cases, having to obtain a gun illegally does not really deter. | ||
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Linkirvana
Netherlands365 Posts
On December 17 2012 03:14 Gatsbi wrote: I honestly have no idea how to go about buying a gun illegally, do you? I have no criminal connections at all, however I know what people to look for in my town if I'd wanted a gun, I probably have some old classmates who I could get in touch with as well. I feel this is probably the case for most people. Have you never met anyone at for example school that is probably a criminal by now? It can't be that hard, for a hand gun at least. It would probably take longer than a few hours to acquire something bigger. Assuming you have the money of course. | ||
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Ettick
United States2434 Posts
On December 17 2012 02:26 J_Slim wrote: When the second amendment was written, these were the guns that existed: + Show Spoiler + Not these: + Show Spoiler + No one should have the power to kill groups of people in a matter of seconds. Gun technology has gone way way way too far. Oh shit, drawings of tacticool black weapons! So scary, so dangerous! Anyways, time for something more on topic: Gun control should be done through strict background checks and psychological tests of some sort to make sure the person buying the gun is going to use it for legitimate means. Also, if we put more money into healthcare, I bet the amount of shootings and crimes in general would go down since more people would have access to a psychologist. | ||
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Chytilova
United States790 Posts
On December 17 2012 03:14 Gatsbi wrote: I honestly have no idea how to go about buying a gun illegally, do you? Ever heard of these marketplaces called gun shows? Half the guys selling shit there don't know what's illegal or not. Super easy. | ||
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cLAN.Anax
United States2847 Posts
At my local library, there is a photograph of a parade in the early 1900's. On one of the floats in this parade sits a man with a rifle (perhaps a shotgun, I can't tell for sure) laid across his lap. It's obviously not the focus of the photo, but it's kind of hard to ignore. Of course, I can't tell if it is loaded or not. But the point of this is that this man had his firearm with him, in a public place, potentially filled with live ammo, and you know what the reaction from the surrounding people was? Nothing. They didn't care that he had his firearm publicly viewable and a possible danger to the surrounding citizens. Were the people afraid that he'd go postal on everyone? Obviously not, because there weren't policemen clambering onto the float to take him down and talk very sternly to him about having his weapon so carelessly open to the public's view. I have to wonder: how often did these awful shootings happen in America 60-80 years ago, back when guns and their owners were, perhaps, far less feared than they are today? A man strolling down the local street with a shotgun in his hands acquired far less attention (especially negative attention) than would a man who happened to accidentally flash his Glock handgun from a concealed position behind his back. It's almost as if we're taught nowadays to only fear guns, rather than fully appreciate the tools, both positive and negative aspects. It's like we have a wholesale fear of firearms, but with none of the respect that our ancestors seemed to express towards them. I'm just hypostulating at the reason(s) right now. But I do want to bring forward the observation that our perception of guns has changed within the past century. That might have a substantial effect on how public opinion has changed over that time too, and why there is such a massive call for tighter laws restricting gun access an purchase. | ||
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Tewks44
United States2032 Posts
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micronesia
United States24805 Posts
On December 17 2012 04:03 Tewks44 wrote: To anyone saying "blaming guns for murder is like blaming spoons for making people fat" are totally missing the point. A gun makes it possible to kill someone from a distance just by pointing a barrel at them and pulling a trigger. No one is saying guns should be banned because they are capable of killing people. Guns should be banned because they make it extremely easy to kill people. It's as simple as that. You can keep throwing around cutesy catch phrases such as "guns don't kill people, people kill people" but just look around. How many gun related massacres will it take until you realize that guns are the problem, and no amount of fun slogans and clever one liners are going to change the fact guns are at the center of the problem. Hell, on the same day the awful massacre occurred in Connecticut a similar even happened in China and no one died because the individual didn't have a gun. That should serve as a stark comparison, and hopefully will be an eye opener to some people. Why are some people so resistant to admitting guns are a problem, and they assist in murders, and without them, murdering would be more challenging. It's difficult for many people to agree with a philosophy that guns are "bad" since many people safely own and use guns, and aren't directly to blame for the negative effects of gun availability. It's also a difficult problem to solve even if everyone here agrees that guns 'need to go.' | ||
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Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
I know it sounds silly, but just curious, and if you do think so, why? | ||
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