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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
Do the anti gun people really think something like trying to disarm the American populace would be a safe thing to do? Try and disarm some of the WWII vets that still have the guns that they used when they were willing to sacrifice their own lives to set shit right. Try and disarm Texas. Try and disarm all the crazy fucking criminals that probably aren't registered to begin with.
I realize all you philosophy majors live in a fantasy land where you believe that "if the world did things the way I think they should" that all the 'bad shit' would just stop happening, but even you all have to realize how illogical your imagination is.
Guns exist
Guns will continue to exist
Getting shot will continue to be one of the many reasons some people will die ( I doubt it's even top 10)
It's sad to say but people going crazy and hurting other people is just a part of the fucked up reality we all share. There is no stopping that.
If you need some kind of soap box to stand on and preach to other people about you'd be better of picking cancer.
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On July 24 2012 07:14 r00ty wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 05:03 dotHead wrote:On July 24 2012 04:56 Figgy wrote:On July 23 2012 17:13 Rannasha wrote:On July 23 2012 16:59 ranshaked wrote:On July 23 2012 16:52 Dakk wrote:
I believe that no one besides then the military should be allowed guns. Guns are bad and guns kill people. Legalizing guns is just making it easier for the killers to kill....
So what do you do when a man with a gun breaks into your home? Do you just let him shoot you? Regular criminals don't have guns in my country. With decent gun control, it's difficult even for criminals to acquire a gun. They need connections to organized crime as well as a decent amount of money (illegal guns are expensive when there aren't any legal guns). Your everyday smalltime criminal will have neither. Most criminals with guns are in organized crime groups that seem to primarily use the guns on eachother. Regular burglars emphasize stealth. They're in and out before you know what happened. And if they hear any sounds that indicate that you may be at home / awake, they will flee. Someone being injured or killed by a burglar is extremely rare in the Netherlands. Same also applies to Canada. I'm in a city with 2 million people and I don't even need to lock my door, let alone worry about someone entering my house with a gun. Never had a single armed house robbery in over 20 years, it's nice when the criminals don't actually have weapons isn't it? Also, the ones that actually do try to break and enter flee the second they realize someone is home. Not many people break into houses with the intent to kill someone. What? Canada? http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20120722-700806.html 2 incidents like this in 35 years, is it that hard for you to read the full 6(!) fucking lines?. Another nice example for brainwashed people only seeing what they want to see.
I guess it was hard for you to read the article, because even the title of the article "Shootings in Canada's Largest City Continue With 4 More Incidents" mentions 4 MORE incidents. It even states "147" shootings this year so far..
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On July 24 2012 08:08 whatevername wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 07:01 Defacer wrote:On July 24 2012 06:36 whatevername wrote:
No, rather the explanation is that you cant account for the mentally insane and psychopathic with the control of any dangerous substance. illegal or easy to get hes going to do as he plans, he wont be dissuaded by some naive little "pweeze dont have guns :3" by the police.
Why should the state of Colorado do a psychopath any favours by have such relaxed gun laws? What benefits are there to making guns so easy to purchase? The risks are self-evident -- at least to the average person. Your argument is silly as well. Teenagers will also drink and get high. Should be deregulate all alcohol, prescription and illegal drugs? The argument about gun control and it's limits should be more nuanced than this. This is how out-of-hand and far-removed gun control advocates are: you can't even get some gun enthusiasts to admit that guns are dangerous. Any favours? Your assuming its difficult to get your hands on illicit material - which everyone knows is completely false because everyone here has dranken before the legal age, seen pot and other drugs, has probably engaged in said activities, and is friends with those who do. Its not a favour, if anything the relaxed gun laws were the very thing that precipitated him wearing a bullet proof vest; he considered it a realistic chance that he would be shot and his rampage stopped early. Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 07:29 r00ty wrote:On July 24 2012 07:26 Esk23 wrote:On July 24 2012 07:22 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 24 2012 07:21 DeepElemBlues wrote:On July 24 2012 07:18 Jockmcplop wrote:
So why would you want a gun, if not to inflict cruelty on other people? If the billions of gun owners in the world bought guns to inflict cruelty on other people, why aren't there millions of shootings every day? So why do these people want one? Self-defense. A concept not understood in the UK as your right to bear firearms was taken away from you. Not even the avarage cop carries a firearm in the UK, still the the people are way safer. Care to explain that? Yeah lets pretend that every study ever conducted has shown there to be no correlation with the amount of guns owned and the murder rate never happened, lets ignore the fact that finland and canada which have nearly as high per capita firearms have dramatically lower fatalities than the states [some stats has canada ABOVE the states with per capita firearms] and lets ignore the fact that britain has been rattled with an epidemic of stabbings all of which would of been casually put down with a gun. From anyone. An eldery fucking women.
You're comparing the availability of pot with firearms... I can get 100grams of cocaine way more easily than an illegal firearm. This is different in the US maybe, because there's just too many guns around.
In Canada and Finland the guns are used basically only for hunting and sports not for self defense! I'm not so sure about Canada any more though...
The extreme amount of stabbings in the UK were a gang thing nearly exclusively amongst youth gangs. The amount in this short period of time was a phenomenon. I'm not up to date, so please correct me if i'm wrong here.
You got some strong faith in every person being able to handle a gun responsibly and accurately in stress situations. I wouldn't want any elderly woman to carry a handgun!
I got army training but wouldn't trust myself to handle a firearm in every situation adequately and responsibly.
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Why are people comparing drugs and firearms?
You smoke some weed it's gone.
A gun doesn't vanish after it's been used once.
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On July 24 2012 08:32 Leth0 wrote:
Do the anti gun people really think something like trying to disarm the American populace would be a safe thing to do? Try and disarm some of the WWII vets that still have the guns that they used when they were willing to sacrifice their own lives to set shit right. Try and disarm Texas. Try and disarm all the crazy fucking criminals that probably aren't registered to begin with.
I realize all you philosophy majors live in a fantasy land where you believe that "if the world did things the way I think they should" that all the 'bad shit' would just stop happening, but even you all have to realize how illogical your imagination is.
Guns exist
Guns will continue to exist
Getting shot will continue to be one of the many reasons some people will die ( I doubt it's even top 10)
It's sad to say but people going crazy and hurting other people is just a part of the fucked up reality we all share. There is no stopping that.
If you need some kind of soap box to stand on and preach to other people about you'd be better of picking cancer.
So, we shouldn't try to do anything about gun control because we might get shot?
Awesome.
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On July 24 2012 08:38 TrickyGilligan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 08:32 Leth0 wrote:
Do the anti gun people really think something like trying to disarm the American populace would be a safe thing to do? Try and disarm some of the WWII vets that still have the guns that they used when they were willing to sacrifice their own lives to set shit right. Try and disarm Texas. Try and disarm all the crazy fucking criminals that probably aren't registered to begin with.
I realize all you philosophy majors live in a fantasy land where you believe that "if the world did things the way I think they should" that all the 'bad shit' would just stop happening, but even you all have to realize how illogical your imagination is.
Guns exist
Guns will continue to exist
Getting shot will continue to be one of the many reasons some people will die ( I doubt it's even top 10)
It's sad to say but people going crazy and hurting other people is just a part of the fucked up reality we all share. There is no stopping that.
If you need some kind of soap box to stand on and preach to other people about you'd be better of picking cancer. So, we shouldn't try to do anything about gun control because we might get shot? Awesome.
If that's the only way your mind can process what you just read then sure. Think of it in that very simple, very ignorant way.
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On July 24 2012 08:08 whatevername wrote:
Any favours? Your assuming its difficult to get your hands on illicit material - which everyone knows is completely false because everyone here has dranken before the legal age, seen pot and other drugs, has probably engaged in said activities, and is friends with those who do. Its not a favour, if anything the relaxed gun laws were the very thing that precipitated him wearing a bullet proof vest; he considered it a realistic chance that he would be shot and his rampage stopped early.
You're assuming that it's easy to get illicit material. It actually isn't that easy, because it makes the person selling it to you culpable if you commit a crime or you get caught.
But then again, I don't know you. Maybe it is indeed easy for you. Perhaps you have a criminal mind, and a lot of criminal friends.
At either rate, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. That psychopaths can easily purchase combat gear, which proves that relaxed gun laws are somehow effective?
It certainly didn't help save the people in the theatre. In fact, it actually made it harder for the Colorado police to identify and differentiate Holmes from the SWAT team.
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On July 24 2012 08:37 Leth0 wrote:
Why are people comparing drugs and firearms.
You smoke some weed it's gone.
A gun doesn't vanish after it's been used once.
because both are illegal outside the us and both happen to have about the same arguments about them.
People keep telling me it's easy to get drugs anyway so there's really no point in making them illegal in the first place.
People in this thread keep telling people it'd be easy to get guns even if they were to be prohibited.
Both statements are wrong from my point of view because neither do I know to get drugs (i could imagine there might be someone in my circle of not-so-close friends who knows how to get some though) nor do I know how to get guns. That's why.
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On July 24 2012 08:33 dotHead wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 07:14 r00ty wrote:On July 24 2012 05:03 dotHead wrote:On July 24 2012 04:56 Figgy wrote:On July 23 2012 17:13 Rannasha wrote:On July 23 2012 16:59 ranshaked wrote:On July 23 2012 16:52 Dakk wrote:
I believe that no one besides then the military should be allowed guns. Guns are bad and guns kill people. Legalizing guns is just making it easier for the killers to kill....
So what do you do when a man with a gun breaks into your home? Do you just let him shoot you? Regular criminals don't have guns in my country. With decent gun control, it's difficult even for criminals to acquire a gun. They need connections to organized crime as well as a decent amount of money (illegal guns are expensive when there aren't any legal guns). Your everyday smalltime criminal will have neither. Most criminals with guns are in organized crime groups that seem to primarily use the guns on eachother. Regular burglars emphasize stealth. They're in and out before you know what happened. And if they hear any sounds that indicate that you may be at home / awake, they will flee. Someone being injured or killed by a burglar is extremely rare in the Netherlands. Same also applies to Canada. I'm in a city with 2 million people and I don't even need to lock my door, let alone worry about someone entering my house with a gun. Never had a single armed house robbery in over 20 years, it's nice when the criminals don't actually have weapons isn't it? Also, the ones that actually do try to break and enter flee the second they realize someone is home. Not many people break into houses with the intent to kill someone. What? Canada? http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20120722-700806.html 2 incidents like this in 35 years, is it that hard for you to read the full 6(!) fucking lines?. Another nice example for brainwashed people only seeing what they want to see. I guess it was hard for you to read the article, because even the title of the article "Shootings in Canada's Largest City Continue With 4 More Incidents" mentions 4 MORE incidents. It even states "147" shootings this year so far..
Really misread something there sry.
"worst violence he had seen in his 35-year policing": i was reading something into this. I cannot read the whole article, need a subscription for this. "147 shootings this year"? That's tough, seems like canada needs some gun control. 
Well a sign to stop posting for tonight and go to bed. Deepest apologies again, i was in rant mode and failed hard.
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On July 24 2012 07:29 r00ty wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 07:26 Esk23 wrote:On July 24 2012 07:22 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 24 2012 07:21 DeepElemBlues wrote:On July 24 2012 07:18 Jockmcplop wrote:
So why would you want a gun, if not to inflict cruelty on other people? If the billions of gun owners in the world bought guns to inflict cruelty on other people, why aren't there millions of shootings every day? So why do these people want one? Self-defense. A concept not understood in the UK as your right to bear firearms was taken away from you. Not even the avarage cop carries a firearm in the UK, still the the people are way safer. Care to explain that?
How are they safer? If someone in the UK robs someone else with a knife or some other weapon the people they are robbing are completely helpless. Whereas in the USA, people HAVE THE RIGHT to own a firearm for self defense. Just because we have the 2nd amendment doesn't mean everyone buys and owns a gun. I don't own a gun. But I respect and believe in the right of others to own them for self defense. The fact is, most people use guns responsibly and in many many cases, have defended their own lives and the lives of their families. You are going to have the very few who abuse that right and use guns to rob and murder others. People do all sorts of things they shouldn't, break all kinds of laws they shouldn't, doesn't mean EVERYONE should lose their rights everytime this sort of thing happens. If you are against owning guns or people owning guns, keep it to yourself. No one forces you to have a gun and you don't have any right whatsoever so tell someone else they can't have one for self defense. Here's an example: http://www.dailypaul.com/112512/shotgun-preteen-vs-illegal-alien-home-invaders. You don't hear stuff like this on the news often because the mainstream media doesn't want you to hear this stuff.
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guns don't kill people
drivers with cell phones do
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On July 24 2012 08:51 Esk23 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 07:29 r00ty wrote:On July 24 2012 07:26 Esk23 wrote:On July 24 2012 07:22 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 24 2012 07:21 DeepElemBlues wrote:On July 24 2012 07:18 Jockmcplop wrote:
So why would you want a gun, if not to inflict cruelty on other people? If the billions of gun owners in the world bought guns to inflict cruelty on other people, why aren't there millions of shootings every day? So why do these people want one? Self-defense. A concept not understood in the UK as your right to bear firearms was taken away from you. Not even the avarage cop carries a firearm in the UK, still the the people are way safer. Care to explain that? How are they safer? If someone in the UK robs someone else with a knife or some other weapon the people they are robbing are completely helpless. Whereas in the USA, people HAVE THE RIGHT to own a firearm for self defense. Just because we have the 2nd amendment doesn't mean everyone buys and owns a gun. I don't own a gun. But I respect and believe in the right of others to own them for self defense. The fact is, most people use guns responsibly and in many many cases, have defended their own lives and the lives of their families. You are going to have the very few who abuse that right and use guns to rob and murder others. People do all sorts of things they shouldn't, break all kinds of laws they shouldn't, doesn't mean EVERYONE should lose their rights everytime this sort of thing happens. If you are against owning guns or people owning guns, keep it to yourself. No one forces you to have a gun and you don't have any right whatsoever so tell someone else they can't have one for self defense. Here's an example: http://www.dailypaul.com/112512/shotgun-preteen-vs-illegal-alien-home-invaders. You don't hear stuff like this on the news often because the mainstream media doesn't want you to hear this stuff.
People in the UK are allowed to have knives in their houses if I remember correctly.
How is a (kitchen)knife to defend yourself from a robber with a knive so much worse than a gun in a gun vs gun fight to a point that you say they are completly helpless if you encounter someone with a knife.
I'm not really an expert on those things but I consider it about equally dangerous to be shot instead of shooting the robber than being stabbed instead of stabbing the robber when trying to defend yourself just from a logics point of view, luckily without any experience in any of those.
Therefore I think it's about equally likely that you're going to successfully defeat the robber in both scenarios.
Edit: Not to mention that a golfclub or a baseball bat would do the trick way better than a knife anyways. Pretty sure I could kill someone with a golfclub or at LEAST knock them out of their senses while having supirior range to some dude having a knife.
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On July 24 2012 09:03 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 08:51 Esk23 wrote:On July 24 2012 07:29 r00ty wrote:On July 24 2012 07:26 Esk23 wrote:On July 24 2012 07:22 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 24 2012 07:21 DeepElemBlues wrote:On July 24 2012 07:18 Jockmcplop wrote:
So why would you want a gun, if not to inflict cruelty on other people? If the billions of gun owners in the world bought guns to inflict cruelty on other people, why aren't there millions of shootings every day? So why do these people want one? Self-defense. A concept not understood in the UK as your right to bear firearms was taken away from you. Not even the avarage cop carries a firearm in the UK, still the the people are way safer. Care to explain that? How are they safer? If someone in the UK robs someone else with a knife or some other weapon the people they are robbing are completely helpless. Whereas in the USA, people HAVE THE RIGHT to own a firearm for self defense. Just because we have the 2nd amendment doesn't mean everyone buys and owns a gun. I don't own a gun. But I respect and believe in the right of others to own them for self defense. The fact is, most people use guns responsibly and in many many cases, have defended their own lives and the lives of their families. You are going to have the very few who abuse that right and use guns to rob and murder others. People do all sorts of things they shouldn't, break all kinds of laws they shouldn't, doesn't mean EVERYONE should lose their rights everytime this sort of thing happens. If you are against owning guns or people owning guns, keep it to yourself. No one forces you to have a gun and you don't have any right whatsoever so tell someone else they can't have one for self defense. Here's an example: http://www.dailypaul.com/112512/shotgun-preteen-vs-illegal-alien-home-invaders. You don't hear stuff like this on the news often because the mainstream media doesn't want you to hear this stuff. People in the UK are allowed to have knives in their houses if I remember correctly. How is a (kitchen)knife to defend yourself from a robber with a knive so much worse than a gun in a gun vs gun fight to a point that you say they are completly helpless if you encounter someone with a knife. I'm not really an expert on those things but I consider it about equally dangerous to be shot instead of shooting the robber than being stabbed instead of stabbing the robber when trying to defend yourself just from a logics point of view, luckily without any experience in any of those. Therefore I think it's about equally likely that you're going to successfully defeat the robber in both scenarios.
Worst logic I have ever heard. I think I'd rather have a gun to defend myself than a knife if I were getting robbed. What are you going to do against 5 robbers with 5 knives? You'd be forced to get on your knees while your wife/daughters get raped in front of you. That's what could happen to you, whereas if you owned a gun you could shoot all of them. You have a better chance at survival with a gun than a knife. Most people don't have to worry about getting robbed, chances are low but you should have the right to defend yourself with something other than a fucking kitchen knife, don't be absurd. You are speaking from the viewpoint that you could never get robbed or attacked and that your family is safe %100 of the time. Keep living in fantasy land.
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You are speaking from the viewpoint that you could never get robbed or attacked and that your family is safe %100 of the time.
Well that is pretty much the case here in europe, aka fantasyland
The changes to get robbed or attacked inside your own house are extremely small.
The strongest argument made in favor of gun ownership is at the same time the least relevant reality.
Getting drugs is 1000 times easier then getting a weapon off course, there way more transactions and as such it cant be compared at all.
People need to buy drugs every day while a weapon you only have to buy once.
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On July 24 2012 08:41 Toadesstern wrote:Both statements are wrong from my point of view because neither do I know to get drugs (i could imagine there might be someone in my circle of not-so-close friends who knows how to get some though) nor do I know how to get guns. That's why.
that just means ur a noob
User was warned for this post
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On July 24 2012 08:51 Esk23 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 07:29 r00ty wrote:On July 24 2012 07:26 Esk23 wrote:On July 24 2012 07:22 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 24 2012 07:21 DeepElemBlues wrote:On July 24 2012 07:18 Jockmcplop wrote:
So why would you want a gun, if not to inflict cruelty on other people? If the billions of gun owners in the world bought guns to inflict cruelty on other people, why aren't there millions of shootings every day? So why do these people want one? Self-defense. A concept not understood in the UK as your right to bear firearms was taken away from you. Not even the avarage cop carries a firearm in the UK, still the the people are way safer. Care to explain that? How are they safer? If someone in the UK robs someone else with a knife or some other weapon the people they are robbing are completely helpless. Whereas in the USA, people HAVE THE RIGHT to own a firearm for self defense. Just because we have the 2nd amendment doesn't mean everyone buys and owns a gun. I don't own a gun. But I respect and believe in the right of others to own them for self defense. The fact is, most people use guns responsibly and in many many cases, have defended their own lives and the lives of their families. You are going to have the very few who abuse that right and use guns to rob and murder others. People do all sorts of things they shouldn't, break all kinds of laws they shouldn't, doesn't mean EVERYONE should lose their rights everytime this sort of thing happens. If you are against owning guns or people owning guns, keep it to yourself. No one forces you to have a gun and you don't have any right whatsoever so tell someone else they can't have one for self defense. Here's an example: http://www.dailypaul.com/112512/shotgun-preteen-vs-illegal-alien-home-invaders. You don't hear stuff like this on the news often because the mainstream media doesn't want you to hear this stuff.
Yeah you're right, that definitely isn't mainstream media:
Thought for the day:
Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an 'unlicensed pharmacist'
Are there more sources than a redneck ranting online paper? It's not that i don't believe the story, honestly, but it looks a bit sketchy and one-sided to me.
What do we learn from it? If you leave your 11 year old daughter at home: Give her a shotgun, because of all the illegal alien killer rapists out there! C'mon...
To your whole argument: Yes, most people handle them responsibly, but to me it's not worth the risks of all the unresponsible people being allowed to have an easy access and own a firearm imho. We disagree there and that's completely fine.
Handling a tool like this in a stressful situation the right way is not a skill easily obtained. And if you've never experienced it, i'd say you cannot judge your ability to do so. A misjudgement/accident will very likely have fatal consequences. To me the downsides of the freedom to bear firearms just predominate.
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On July 24 2012 09:09 Esk23 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 09:03 Toadesstern wrote:On July 24 2012 08:51 Esk23 wrote:On July 24 2012 07:29 r00ty wrote:On July 24 2012 07:26 Esk23 wrote:On July 24 2012 07:22 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 24 2012 07:21 DeepElemBlues wrote:On July 24 2012 07:18 Jockmcplop wrote:
So why would you want a gun, if not to inflict cruelty on other people? If the billions of gun owners in the world bought guns to inflict cruelty on other people, why aren't there millions of shootings every day? So why do these people want one? Self-defense. A concept not understood in the UK as your right to bear firearms was taken away from you. Not even the avarage cop carries a firearm in the UK, still the the people are way safer. Care to explain that? How are they safer? If someone in the UK robs someone else with a knife or some other weapon the people they are robbing are completely helpless. Whereas in the USA, people HAVE THE RIGHT to own a firearm for self defense. Just because we have the 2nd amendment doesn't mean everyone buys and owns a gun. I don't own a gun. But I respect and believe in the right of others to own them for self defense. The fact is, most people use guns responsibly and in many many cases, have defended their own lives and the lives of their families. You are going to have the very few who abuse that right and use guns to rob and murder others. People do all sorts of things they shouldn't, break all kinds of laws they shouldn't, doesn't mean EVERYONE should lose their rights everytime this sort of thing happens. If you are against owning guns or people owning guns, keep it to yourself. No one forces you to have a gun and you don't have any right whatsoever so tell someone else they can't have one for self defense. Here's an example: http://www.dailypaul.com/112512/shotgun-preteen-vs-illegal-alien-home-invaders. You don't hear stuff like this on the news often because the mainstream media doesn't want you to hear this stuff. People in the UK are allowed to have knives in their houses if I remember correctly. How is a (kitchen)knife to defend yourself from a robber with a knive so much worse than a gun in a gun vs gun fight to a point that you say they are completly helpless if you encounter someone with a knife. I'm not really an expert on those things but I consider it about equally dangerous to be shot instead of shooting the robber than being stabbed instead of stabbing the robber when trying to defend yourself just from a logics point of view, luckily without any experience in any of those. Therefore I think it's about equally likely that you're going to successfully defeat the robber in both scenarios. Worst logic I have ever heard. I think I'd rather have a gun to defend myself than a knife if I were getting robbed. What are you going to do against 5 robbers with 5 knives? You'd be forced to get on your knees while your wife/daughters get raped in front of you. That's what could happen to you, whereas if you owned a gun you could shoot all of them. You have a better chance at survival with a gun than a knife. Most people don't have to worry about getting robbed, chances are low but you should have the right to defend yourself with something other than a fucking kitchen knife, don't be absurd. You are speaking from the viewpoint that you could never get robbed or attacked and that your family is safe %100 of the time. Keep living in fantasy land.
I'm not living in a fantasy land. Yeah that could happen. Yeah it's preeeetty unlikely but it could happen but even if it were to happen I wouldn't be able to do a thing about it either way. Shit happens. I know that's written pretty simple, maybe someone might even consider it offensive calling something like that "shit happens" when we're talking about lives being ruined but that's what it comes down to.
You're telling me a gun is better in that scenario? You're going against 5 people, each of them carrying at least a pistol all on your own with one weapon because you can win that 1v5? Dude that's not going to happen. You're going to die in that scenario like a guy with a knife (or golfclub or a bat) would die vs 5 guys having knifes / clubs / bats.
What's going to happen if one of those 5 robbers has your daughter hostage pointing his gun at her head. You still think your gun is going to save the day? I doubt it.
You're telling me I'm living in a fantasy land. Truth is shit happens and you can't be safe from everything, just as you said.
Carrying a gun won't make it any safer though. It may give you some courage and delude you into thinking your safer than without having any firearms but you might just die when fighting robbers or not have a chance to begin with because it's a 1v5 like you mentioned or someone having your daughter hostage.
There's no difference in the knife and gun scenario except that you want to go out with a bang and want to at least believe that you can protect yourself and your loved ones from everything, no matter what happens or at least die defending yourself while taking a bunch of them with you.
Your wife and daughter probably wouldn't like that either, would they?
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On July 24 2012 09:18 Rassy wrote:
You are speaking from the viewpoint that you could never get robbed or attacked and that your family is safe %100 of the time
Well that is pretty much the case here in europe, aka fantasyland
The changes to get robbed or attacked inside your own house are extremely small.
Perhaps, I don't live in Europe. And you don't live here, seeing that this topic applies more to the USA than Europe, opinions from Europeans on the subject don't really matter. You'd never be able to get rid of every gun in the US and out of criminal hands. People from Mexico cross the border into the US at will with their guns/drugs. Making it illegal to own firearms would just punish law abiding people and would actually help criminals who will break any gun laws regardless rob and murder more people. You'd have to set up the military eveywhere, search every single house/apartment, etc all across the USA and search high and low to find and get every gun here. That's not the American way, that's more of a police state sounding country, like Nazi Germany.
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On July 24 2012 09:26 Esk23 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 09:18 Rassy wrote:
You are speaking from the viewpoint that you could never get robbed or attacked and that your family is safe %100 of the time
Well that is pretty much the case here in europe, aka fantasyland
The changes to get robbed or attacked inside your own house are extremely small. Perhaps, I don't live in Europe. And you don't live here, seeing that this topic applies more to the USA than Europe, opinions from Europeans on the subject don't really matter. You'd never be able to get rid of every gun in the US and out of criminal hands. People from Mexico cross the border into the US at will with their guns/drugs. Making it illegal to own firearms would just punish law abiding people and would actually help criminals who will break any gun laws regardless rob and murder more people. You'd have to set up the military eveywhere, search every single house/apartment, etc all across the USA and search high and low to find and get every gun here. That's not the American way, that's more of a police state sounding country, like Nazi Germany.
And here we go! Good night everybody!
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On July 24 2012 09:25 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 09:09 Esk23 wrote:On July 24 2012 09:03 Toadesstern wrote:On July 24 2012 08:51 Esk23 wrote:On July 24 2012 07:29 r00ty wrote:On July 24 2012 07:26 Esk23 wrote:On July 24 2012 07:22 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 24 2012 07:21 DeepElemBlues wrote:On July 24 2012 07:18 Jockmcplop wrote:
So why would you want a gun, if not to inflict cruelty on other people? If the billions of gun owners in the world bought guns to inflict cruelty on other people, why aren't there millions of shootings every day? So why do these people want one? Self-defense. A concept not understood in the UK as your right to bear firearms was taken away from you. Not even the avarage cop carries a firearm in the UK, still the the people are way safer. Care to explain that? How are they safer? If someone in the UK robs someone else with a knife or some other weapon the people they are robbing are completely helpless. Whereas in the USA, people HAVE THE RIGHT to own a firearm for self defense. Just because we have the 2nd amendment doesn't mean everyone buys and owns a gun. I don't own a gun. But I respect and believe in the right of others to own them for self defense. The fact is, most people use guns responsibly and in many many cases, have defended their own lives and the lives of their families. You are going to have the very few who abuse that right and use guns to rob and murder others. People do all sorts of things they shouldn't, break all kinds of laws they shouldn't, doesn't mean EVERYONE should lose their rights everytime this sort of thing happens. If you are against owning guns or people owning guns, keep it to yourself. No one forces you to have a gun and you don't have any right whatsoever so tell someone else they can't have one for self defense. Here's an example: http://www.dailypaul.com/112512/shotgun-preteen-vs-illegal-alien-home-invaders. You don't hear stuff like this on the news often because the mainstream media doesn't want you to hear this stuff. People in the UK are allowed to have knives in their houses if I remember correctly. How is a (kitchen)knife to defend yourself from a robber with a knive so much worse than a gun in a gun vs gun fight to a point that you say they are completly helpless if you encounter someone with a knife. I'm not really an expert on those things but I consider it about equally dangerous to be shot instead of shooting the robber than being stabbed instead of stabbing the robber when trying to defend yourself just from a logics point of view, luckily without any experience in any of those. Therefore I think it's about equally likely that you're going to successfully defeat the robber in both scenarios. Worst logic I have ever heard. I think I'd rather have a gun to defend myself than a knife if I were getting robbed. What are you going to do against 5 robbers with 5 knives? You'd be forced to get on your knees while your wife/daughters get raped in front of you. That's what could happen to you, whereas if you owned a gun you could shoot all of them. You have a better chance at survival with a gun than a knife. Most people don't have to worry about getting robbed, chances are low but you should have the right to defend yourself with something other than a fucking kitchen knife, don't be absurd. You are speaking from the viewpoint that you could never get robbed or attacked and that your family is safe %100 of the time. Keep living in fantasy land. I'm not living in a fantasy land. Yeah that could happen. Yeah it's preeeetty unlikely but it could happen but even if it were to happen I wouldn't be able to do a thing about it either way. Shit happens. I know that's written pretty simple, maybe someone might even consider it offensive calling something like that "shit happens" when we're talking about lives being ruined but that's what it comes down to. You're telling me a gun is better in that scenario? You're going against 5 people, each of them carrying at least a pistol all on your own with one weapon because you can win that 1v5? Dude that's not going to happen. You're going to die in that scenario like a guy with a knife (or golfclub or a bat) would die vs 5 guys having knifes / clubs / bats. What's going to happen if one of those 5 robbers has your daughter hostage pointing his gun at her head. You still think your gun is going to save the day? I doubt it. You're telling me I'm living in a fantasy land. Truth is shit happens and you can't be safe from everything, just as you said. Carrying a gun won't make it any safer though. It may give you some courage and delude you into thinking your safer than without having any firearms but you might just die when fighting robbers or not have a chance to begin with because it's a 1v5 like you mentioned or someone having your daughter hostage. There's no difference in the knife and gun scenario except that you want to go out with a bang and want to at least believe that you can protect yourself and your loved ones from everything, no matter what happens or at least die defending yourself while taking a bunch of them with you. Your wife and daughter probably wouldn't like that either, would they?
There is a difference and it's quite simple to understand, long paragraphs of nonsense is not necessary. The fact is you have a better chance of survival with a gun than a kitchen knife or baseball bat or whatever. Yes you could be outnumbered and have a better chance with a gun than the things you've described. USA is different than Germany. Chicago is probably the most crime ridden city in the US and guns are BANNED there. It is illegal to have a gun in Chicago, yet crime rate is the highest in the country there and shootings happen all the time. Criminals are going to have guns regardless of what gun laws you pass. And the victims that get shot follow the law and can't own guns. Tell them to use their kitchen knives or baseball bats or whatever to defend themselves.
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EPT
