On December 01 2011 08:15 Brutefidget wrote: Ideas like "The industry does fine without me buying games" and "If games weren't so overpriced then I would buy them" are poison to the gaming industry. If everyone started acting like this, we'd all have no games. I've made this exact same point like 4 times and I have yet to see anyone refute it. Please, piracy advocates, explain how if everyone pirates that there would still be a gaming industry.
the point is that it isn't a point, because not everyone pirates. people buy stuff if they can afford it and if what they purchase is better than what they pirate. many can afford it, and BECAUSE of piracy, game distributors have finally managed to provide an equally good service as pirates do.
this thread is full of horrible analogies, so allow me to make some more. basically, many things are illegal in society. in norway, it's illegal to urinate in public. generally, it's seen as a good thing, that not everyone urinates in public, but it is also preferable if people are occasionally able to urinate in public without being fined as opposed to pissing their pants. your idea that "if everyone pirated, we'd have to gaming industry", is akin to a statement such as "if everyone pissed in public, our cities would smell like piss", but both are just.. meaningless statements, because not everyone pirates, not everyone wants to pirate, just like not everyone urinates in public because not everyone wants to urinate in public. but sometimes, pirating is preferable to not playing a game, and urinating in public is preferable to pissing your pants. you can say "but you shouldn't have gone out drinking knowing that you might find yourself having to piss without a suitable toilet nearby", just as you can say "well maybe you should have done something else than play a game you weren't able to afford", the fact is, in neither scenario is society hurt in a significant manner by the actions of the lawbreakers. meanwhile, lawbreakers have improved life quality specifically because they broke the law, and for me, as an innocent bystander, I'm both happy that mr pissypants didn't accidentially stumble into me soaking me in his piss, just as I am happy that my peg-legged friend recommended me and gave me a copy of dune 2 19 years ago which kickstarted my RTS gaming experience and ensured that I would contribute to the gaming industry for the rest of my adult life.
Many people in this topic already have admitted to not buying stuff if they can afford it. If you just download a game, you save 60 dollars towards a new car! Why ever buy a game, right guys?
You can't say it's not a point. You can say it's not reality, but that doesn't make it any less of a point. That is the exact reason why urinating in public is illegal and should be illegal, and piracy should be no different. Society would be much worse off if everyone adopted that behavior. It's very selfish to think that your actions, which are detrimental, are ok because you're only one person. To me, the person who buys games, if you don't pay for it of course I'd prefer for you to not play it. It's the same as me thinking that I'd much rather have people acting responsibly and finding a toilet rather than peeing all over my city.
"Not everyone wants to pirate" - Untrue. Everyone would prefer to have something free, but those who don't want to pirate are those who understand that it hurts the gaming industry. So while not everyone wants to "pirate," everyone wants the same thing the pirates take.
"In neither scenario is society hurt in a significant manner by the actions of the lawbreakers." - I fail to see how society benefits from public urination ever, but I'm just going to abandon your analogy for that point. Maybe right now, with the current ratio of lawbreakers to paying customers, the actions are not so detrimental. However, if more people decide to become lawbreakers, it will destroy the industry. You can't honestly think it's ok to break the law just because it's only a few people doing it?
I don't want to pirate. But developers have made me do it due to thier insane DRMs, crappy console ports and close to illegal hype campaigns surrounding certain games. When i say illegal i mean it as in false advertising. Something like Ubisoft dose from time to time. Show stuff off saying it will be in the game, but come release said feature is nowhere to be found.
If you don't like DRM, crappy console ports, and overhyped games then...don't buy them! If you don't like it, don't play it! Shockingly simple really. It's pathetic how you attempt to justify it, just be a man and admit you're being immoral and get on with your pirating. Since this thread loves half-baked analogies...I don't want to cheat on my wife, but she nags me all the time and makes me do my own laundry so really she made me do it. Leaving her is not an option because there are some things I like about her and would miss out on. But seriously it's all her fault.
You have not read the whole thread i guess... Some of the games that have insane DRMs and are crappy console ports and are overhyped can still be a good game (belive it or not). A good example is TES: Oblivion. I actualy enjoyd that game but would not have bought it if i had not pirated it due to all the shit it got from everyone i know.
And how you can call me immoral for not wanting to get cheated by a developer is beyond me. Are they not being immoral for not being honest about thier product?
The developer isn't cheating you. If you aren't convinced by the product, then don't buy it. DRM, porting, etc is all part of the product. I don't throw a hissy fit like a child when I order a meal at a restaurant that I don't like, and you shouldn't whine like a child when you buy a game and end up not liking it. Next time, I'll order a burger because I know it's going to be alright, and you can stick to X developer whose games you always enjoy if you're too immature to handle trying new things and not liking them.
It's not about not liking the type of game or anything. But it happens quite often that a developer sells a game that is broken. Broken to the point where it is impossible to play it. I think you would say something if you bought a burger that turned out only to be made of lettuce but it promised too be a regular burger.
This is a fairly straight forward issue really in which the law has very little real relevance. Smart businesses will realize that when it comes to piracy some people simply will not purchase the game/music/movie. These people are not real customers however they could help to promote the product at some point so it isn't all bad. In some markets a portion of potential customers may be currently pirating. However I don't think it is productive to see them as criminals. It is better to see it as customers that prefer pirates services that need to be won back. You can't fight your customers and win.
Winning these people back is simply a matter of providing more convenient distribution at the right price (even free). So say a company is losing money to pirated movies. They could allow people to watch the movie on your tv/online (with ads) for free (or for a subscription fee) at 480p. Then to watch it at 1080p+ quality you would have to pay an extra fee (it has to be as good or better quality than the blu-ray rips available). If all this could be done without the customer leaving the couch you will only lose those customers who wouldn't buy it anyway. Those people who want to download 10-40gb blu-ray rips over torrent can do so, but I think most people will just go with the easier and faster service.
For music it is also simple make the lower quality mp3's cheap online or even free via ad supported services but have premium collectors editions or vinyls for sale at a higher price. The premium version could be an uncompressed .wav file with other extras like t-shirts etc. That way people who would buy it anyway will still buy it and feel like they are supporting the artist and people who would pirate (or maybe are just vaguely interested) will have easier access to it for free but the ads will make up for it.
On December 01 2011 08:15 Brutefidget wrote: Ideas like "The industry does fine without me buying games" and "If games weren't so overpriced then I would buy them" are poison to the gaming industry. If everyone started acting like this, we'd all have no games. I've made this exact same point like 4 times and I have yet to see anyone refute it. Please, piracy advocates, explain how if everyone pirates that there would still be a gaming industry.
the point is that it isn't a point, because not everyone pirates. people buy stuff if they can afford it and if what they purchase is better than what they pirate. many can afford it, and BECAUSE of piracy, game distributors have finally managed to provide an equally good service as pirates do.
this thread is full of horrible analogies, so allow me to make some more. basically, many things are illegal in society. in norway, it's illegal to urinate in public. generally, it's seen as a good thing, that not everyone urinates in public, but it is also preferable if people are occasionally able to urinate in public without being fined as opposed to pissing their pants. your idea that "if everyone pirated, we'd have to gaming industry", is akin to a statement such as "if everyone pissed in public, our cities would smell like piss", but both are just.. meaningless statements, because not everyone pirates, not everyone wants to pirate, just like not everyone urinates in public because not everyone wants to urinate in public. but sometimes, pirating is preferable to not playing a game, and urinating in public is preferable to pissing your pants. you can say "but you shouldn't have gone out drinking knowing that you might find yourself having to piss without a suitable toilet nearby", just as you can say "well maybe you should have done something else than play a game you weren't able to afford", the fact is, in neither scenario is society hurt in a significant manner by the actions of the lawbreakers. meanwhile, lawbreakers have improved life quality specifically because they broke the law, and for me, as an innocent bystander, I'm both happy that mr pissypants didn't accidentially stumble into me soaking me in his piss, just as I am happy that my peg-legged friend recommended me and gave me a copy of dune 2 19 years ago which kickstarted my RTS gaming experience and ensured that I would contribute to the gaming industry for the rest of my adult life.
Many people in this topic already have admitted to not buying stuff if they can afford it. If you just download a game, you save 60 dollars towards a new car! Why ever buy a game, right guys?
You can't say it's not a point. You can say it's not reality, but that doesn't make it any less of a point. That is the exact reason why urinating in public is illegal and should be illegal, and piracy should be no different. Society would be much worse off if everyone adopted that behavior. It's very selfish to think that your actions, which are detrimental, are ok because you're only one person. To me, the person who buys games, if you don't pay for it of course I'd prefer for you to not play it. It's the same as me thinking that I'd much rather have people acting responsibly and finding a toilet rather than peeing all over my city.
"Not everyone wants to pirate" - Untrue. Everyone would prefer to have something free, but those who don't want to pirate are those who understand that it hurts the gaming industry. So while not everyone wants to "pirate," everyone wants the same thing the pirates take.
"In neither scenario is society hurt in a significant manner by the actions of the lawbreakers." - I fail to see how society benefits from public urination ever, but I'm just going to abandon your analogy for that point. Maybe right now, with the current ratio of lawbreakers to paying customers, the actions are not so detrimental. However, if more people decide to become lawbreakers, it will destroy the industry. You can't honestly think it's ok to break the law just because it's only a few people doing it?
I don't want to pirate. But developers have made me do it due to thier insane DRMs, crappy console ports and close to illegal hype campaigns surrounding certain games. When i say illegal i mean it as in false advertising. Something like Ubisoft dose from time to time. Show stuff off saying it will be in the game, but come release said feature is nowhere to be found.
If you don't like DRM, crappy console ports, and overhyped games then...don't buy them! If you don't like it, don't play it! Shockingly simple really. It's pathetic how you attempt to justify it, just be a man and admit you're being immoral and get on with your pirating. Since this thread loves half-baked analogies...I don't want to cheat on my wife, but she nags me all the time and makes me do my own laundry so really she made me do it. Leaving her is not an option because there are some things I like about her and would miss out on. But seriously it's all her fault.
You have not read the whole thread i guess... Some of the games that have insane DRMs and are crappy console ports and are overhyped can still be a good game (belive it or not). A good example is TES: Oblivion. I actualy enjoyd that game but would not have bought it if i had not pirated it due to all the shit it got from everyone i know.
And how you can call me immoral for not wanting to get cheated by a developer is beyond me. Are they not being immoral for not being honest about thier product?
The developer isn't cheating you. If you aren't convinced by the product, then don't buy it. DRM, porting, etc is all part of the product. I don't throw a hissy fit like a child when I order a meal at a restaurant that I don't like, and you shouldn't whine like a child when you buy a game and end up not liking it. Next time, I'll order a burger because I know it's going to be alright, and you can stick to X developer whose games you always enjoy if you're too immature to handle trying new things and not liking them.
maybe the restaurant business would actually produce a better product if consumers could have delivered free samples of their food prior to visiting to ensure that this restaurant makes food that I am willing to pay x for.. I mean, there'd be some decline in visits because some would prefer to simply eat for free at home, but others who could afford it, would still go visit the restaurant to ensure that they make enough money to produce tasty food, for the feeling of companionship with whomever they went together with, and the waitering. meanwhile, crappy restaurants experience an even steeper decline in visits because as people could try their food prior to going, they realized it was crap and didn't have to.
Quite simply, I would not have bought most of the games I had if I hadn't pirated stuff. The games industry entire is better off because I pirated. I would also like to think that I buy higher quality games hence support good developers (If I pirate a bad game, I don't go buy it do I?).
Also, any anti-pirate software on PC is far more annoying to paying customers than pirates.
PS. you reminded me that I never bought oblivion. brb
On December 01 2011 09:38 nekoconeco wrote: This is a fairly straight forward issue really in which the law has very little real relevance. Smart businesses will realize that when it comes to piracy some people simply will not purchase the game/music/movie. These people are not real customers however they could help to promote the product at some point so it isn't all bad. In some markets a portion of potential customers may be currently pirating. However I don't think it is productive to see them as criminals. It is better to see it as customers that prefer pirates services that need to be won back. You can't fight your customers and win.
Winning these people back is simply a matter of providing more convenient distribution at the right price (even free). So say a company is losing money to pirated movies. They could allow people to watch the movie on your tv/online (with ads) for free (or for a subscription fee) at 480p. Then to watch it at 1080p+ quality you would have to pay an extra fee (it has to be as good or better quality than the blu-ray rips available). If all this could be done without the customer leaving the couch you will only lose those customers who wouldn't buy it anyway. Those people who want to download 10-40gb blu-ray rips over torrent can do so, but I think most people will just go with the easier and faster service.
For music it is also simple make the lower quality mp3's cheap online or even free via ad supported services but have premium collectors editions or vinyls for sale at a higher price. The premium version could be an uncompressed .wav file with other extras like t-shirts etc. That way people who would buy it anyway will still buy it and feel like they are supporting the artist and people who would pirate (or maybe are just vaguely interested) will have easier access to it for free but the ads will make up for it.
man speaks truth. I totally agree, companies shouldn't be fighting their customers
On November 30 2011 22:24 Interloper wrote: Many people who pirate do so because they want to try a game out. If they enjoy the game, they will buy it too support the developer. 4,5 million downloads becomes a useless figure since you can not in any way know how many of those 4,5 million purchased the game afterwards. I feel that piracy is a good way to get rid of shitty developers how make crappy games only for the sake of making money (Well all developers want to make money ofc, but i hope you get my point). Good developers get the money they need and then some. Piracy will not be the end of gaming.
This is the most common reason that has been given to me but more than often the person is also an expert at procrastination and gives the "oh I'll buy it later excuse". In the case of single player games, what usually winds up happening is that they'll beat the game and it becomes forgotten on their computers. Either way, I'd be willing to be a huge chunk of those who pirated wouldn't have bothered buying the game if piracy wasn't an option in the first place (in which case nothing would have been lost anyway).
I would rather prefer to see game demos be more prominent to get rid of that whole "I wanted to try the game" excuse.
But demos aren't the full game! They often don't give you enough experience to decide. Also the game can look promising in the beginning but turn out shitty.
For example. I pirated Portal 2. I liked it. I went out and bought it months after I completed the game just because I wanted to support Valve.
I pirated Amnesia. I liked it. I am planning on buying it soon (tight on cash).
I pirated CoD. It sucked. I didnt buy it. Everybody's happy (except Activision trying to steal my money).
So? I don't get your point? Name one other industry where you get to enjoy the full benefit of the product and then get to CHOOSE whether or not you pay for it? If you went into a restaurant, asked for a steak, ate the entire thing then told them you won't pay them cause it wasn't good enough, they would probably tell you to keep dreaming and phone the police.
I'm not being some holy Internet warrior trying to fight pirates. I have pirated stuff before myself. But stop trying to make excuses about why what you are doing is ok. Sorry but just because you feel you are entitled to enjoy the entire content of a good before you choose whether or not it deserves your money doesn't make it right. I hate to break it to you but your opinion on whether or not a game deserves money means next to nothing.
If you are gonna pirate fine, but stop trying to justify to yourself that it is 'right'.
On November 30 2011 22:24 Interloper wrote: Many people who pirate do so because they want to try a game out. If they enjoy the game, they will buy it too support the developer. 4,5 million downloads becomes a useless figure since you can not in any way know how many of those 4,5 million purchased the game afterwards. I feel that piracy is a good way to get rid of shitty developers how make crappy games only for the sake of making money (Well all developers want to make money ofc, but i hope you get my point). Good developers get the money they need and then some. Piracy will not be the end of gaming.
This is the most common reason that has been given to me but more than often the person is also an expert at procrastination and gives the "oh I'll buy it later excuse". In the case of single player games, what usually winds up happening is that they'll beat the game and it becomes forgotten on their computers. Either way, I'd be willing to be a huge chunk of those who pirated wouldn't have bothered buying the game if piracy wasn't an option in the first place (in which case nothing would have been lost anyway).
I would rather prefer to see game demos be more prominent to get rid of that whole "I wanted to try the game" excuse.
But demos aren't the full game! They often don't give you enough experience to decide. Also the game can look promising in the beginning but turn out shitty.
For example. I pirated Portal 2. I liked it. I went out and bought it months after I completed the game just because I wanted to support Valve.
I pirated Amnesia. I liked it. I am planning on buying it soon (tight on cash).
I pirated CoD. It sucked. I didnt buy it. Everybody's happy (except Activision trying to steal my money).
So? I don't get your point? Name one other industry where you get to enjoy the full benefit of the product and then get to CHOOSE whether or not you pay for it? If you went into a restaurant, asked for a steak, ate the entire thing then told them you won't pay them cause it wasn't good enough, they would probably tell you to keep dreaming and phone the police.
I'm not being some holy Internet warrior trying to fight pirates. I have pirated stuff before myself. But stop trying to make excuses about why what you are doing is ok. Sorry but just because you feel you are entitled to enjoy the entire content of a good before you choose whether or not it deserves your money doesn't make it right. I hate to break it to you but your opinion on whether or not a game deserves money means next to nothing.
If you are gonna pirate fine, but stop trying to justify to yourself that it is 'right'.
I know it has been done before where people pay what they think something is worth. I think it was Radiohead who released thier album for free. If you liked it you could donate how ever much money you think it was worth. Same concept with a resturant not too far away from where i live. When i still was in school they guy who owned the place came and had a lecture, and he said they neither lost nor gained a noteworthy amount of cash from this method. Some would be douchebags and pay nothing even though it was nothing wrong with the food, others would pay huge amounts for the food and service. So it's not an insane concept.
On December 01 2011 08:15 Brutefidget wrote: Ideas like "The industry does fine without me buying games" and "If games weren't so overpriced then I would buy them" are poison to the gaming industry. If everyone started acting like this, we'd all have no games. I've made this exact same point like 4 times and I have yet to see anyone refute it. Please, piracy advocates, explain how if everyone pirates that there would still be a gaming industry.
the point is that it isn't a point, because not everyone pirates. people buy stuff if they can afford it and if what they purchase is better than what they pirate. many can afford it, and BECAUSE of piracy, game distributors have finally managed to provide an equally good service as pirates do.
this thread is full of horrible analogies, so allow me to make some more. basically, many things are illegal in society. in norway, it's illegal to urinate in public. generally, it's seen as a good thing, that not everyone urinates in public, but it is also preferable if people are occasionally able to urinate in public without being fined as opposed to pissing their pants. your idea that "if everyone pirated, we'd have to gaming industry", is akin to a statement such as "if everyone pissed in public, our cities would smell like piss", but both are just.. meaningless statements, because not everyone pirates, not everyone wants to pirate, just like not everyone urinates in public because not everyone wants to urinate in public. but sometimes, pirating is preferable to not playing a game, and urinating in public is preferable to pissing your pants. you can say "but you shouldn't have gone out drinking knowing that you might find yourself having to piss without a suitable toilet nearby", just as you can say "well maybe you should have done something else than play a game you weren't able to afford", the fact is, in neither scenario is society hurt in a significant manner by the actions of the lawbreakers. meanwhile, lawbreakers have improved life quality specifically because they broke the law, and for me, as an innocent bystander, I'm both happy that mr pissypants didn't accidentially stumble into me soaking me in his piss, just as I am happy that my peg-legged friend recommended me and gave me a copy of dune 2 19 years ago which kickstarted my RTS gaming experience and ensured that I would contribute to the gaming industry for the rest of my adult life.
Many people in this topic already have admitted to not buying stuff if they can afford it. If you just download a game, you save 60 dollars towards a new car! Why ever buy a game, right guys?
You can't say it's not a point. You can say it's not reality, but that doesn't make it any less of a point. That is the exact reason why urinating in public is illegal and should be illegal, and piracy should be no different. Society would be much worse off if everyone adopted that behavior. It's very selfish to think that your actions, which are detrimental, are ok because you're only one person. To me, the person who buys games, if you don't pay for it of course I'd prefer for you to not play it. It's the same as me thinking that I'd much rather have people acting responsibly and finding a toilet rather than peeing all over my city.
"Not everyone wants to pirate" - Untrue. Everyone would prefer to have something free, but those who don't want to pirate are those who understand that it hurts the gaming industry. So while not everyone wants to "pirate," everyone wants the same thing the pirates take.
"In neither scenario is society hurt in a significant manner by the actions of the lawbreakers." - I fail to see how society benefits from public urination ever, but I'm just going to abandon your analogy for that point. Maybe right now, with the current ratio of lawbreakers to paying customers, the actions are not so detrimental. However, if more people decide to become lawbreakers, it will destroy the industry. You can't honestly think it's ok to break the law just because it's only a few people doing it?
I don't want to pirate. But developers have made me do it due to thier insane DRMs, crappy console ports and close to illegal hype campaigns surrounding certain games. When i say illegal i mean it as in false advertising. Something like Ubisoft dose from time to time. Show stuff off saying it will be in the game, but come release said feature is nowhere to be found.
If you don't like DRM, crappy console ports, and overhyped games then...don't buy them! If you don't like it, don't play it! Shockingly simple really. It's pathetic how you attempt to justify it, just be a man and admit you're being immoral and get on with your pirating. Since this thread loves half-baked analogies...I don't want to cheat on my wife, but she nags me all the time and makes me do my own laundry so really she made me do it. Leaving her is not an option because there are some things I like about her and would miss out on. But seriously it's all her fault.
You have not read the whole thread i guess... Some of the games that have insane DRMs and are crappy console ports and are overhyped can still be a good game (belive it or not). A good example is TES: Oblivion. I actualy enjoyd that game but would not have bought it if i had not pirated it due to all the shit it got from everyone i know.
And how you can call me immoral for not wanting to get cheated by a developer is beyond me. Are they not being immoral for not being honest about thier product?
The developer isn't cheating you. If you aren't convinced by the product, then don't buy it. DRM, porting, etc is all part of the product. I don't throw a hissy fit like a child when I order a meal at a restaurant that I don't like, and you shouldn't whine like a child when you buy a game and end up not liking it. Next time, I'll order a burger because I know it's going to be alright, and you can stick to X developer whose games you always enjoy if you're too immature to handle trying new things and not liking them.
If I'm promised +40 hours of gameplay and I finish it under 10 after doing everything, is it not cheating? If I buy a game and DRM/Securom/whatever makes it impossible to play, is it not cheating? If I'm promised X in game, but i get just /, is it not cheating? Yes it is, and that happens. Alot.. It's just the same as buying a new computer but when it arrives it has 3 year old components. And I sure as hell would start whining about it. Your an idiot if you don't.
And this is also the reason why you are able to check most of the items beforehand so you can avoid nasty surprises.
On December 01 2011 08:15 Brutefidget wrote: Ideas like "The industry does fine without me buying games" and "If games weren't so overpriced then I would buy them" are poison to the gaming industry. If everyone started acting like this, we'd all have no games. I've made this exact same point like 4 times and I have yet to see anyone refute it. Please, piracy advocates, explain how if everyone pirates that there would still be a gaming industry.
the point is that it isn't a point, because not everyone pirates. people buy stuff if they can afford it and if what they purchase is better than what they pirate. many can afford it, and BECAUSE of piracy, game distributors have finally managed to provide an equally good service as pirates do.
this thread is full of horrible analogies, so allow me to make some more. basically, many things are illegal in society. in norway, it's illegal to urinate in public. generally, it's seen as a good thing, that not everyone urinates in public, but it is also preferable if people are occasionally able to urinate in public without being fined as opposed to pissing their pants. your idea that "if everyone pirated, we'd have to gaming industry", is akin to a statement such as "if everyone pissed in public, our cities would smell like piss", but both are just.. meaningless statements, because not everyone pirates, not everyone wants to pirate, just like not everyone urinates in public because not everyone wants to urinate in public. but sometimes, pirating is preferable to not playing a game, and urinating in public is preferable to pissing your pants. you can say "but you shouldn't have gone out drinking knowing that you might find yourself having to piss without a suitable toilet nearby", just as you can say "well maybe you should have done something else than play a game you weren't able to afford", the fact is, in neither scenario is society hurt in a significant manner by the actions of the lawbreakers. meanwhile, lawbreakers have improved life quality specifically because they broke the law, and for me, as an innocent bystander, I'm both happy that mr pissypants didn't accidentially stumble into me soaking me in his piss, just as I am happy that my peg-legged friend recommended me and gave me a copy of dune 2 19 years ago which kickstarted my RTS gaming experience and ensured that I would contribute to the gaming industry for the rest of my adult life.
Many people in this topic already have admitted to not buying stuff if they can afford it. If you just download a game, you save 60 dollars towards a new car! Why ever buy a game, right guys?
You can't say it's not a point. You can say it's not reality, but that doesn't make it any less of a point. That is the exact reason why urinating in public is illegal and should be illegal, and piracy should be no different. Society would be much worse off if everyone adopted that behavior. It's very selfish to think that your actions, which are detrimental, are ok because you're only one person. To me, the person who buys games, if you don't pay for it of course I'd prefer for you to not play it. It's the same as me thinking that I'd much rather have people acting responsibly and finding a toilet rather than peeing all over my city.
"Not everyone wants to pirate" - Untrue. Everyone would prefer to have something free, but those who don't want to pirate are those who understand that it hurts the gaming industry. So while not everyone wants to "pirate," everyone wants the same thing the pirates take.
"In neither scenario is society hurt in a significant manner by the actions of the lawbreakers." - I fail to see how society benefits from public urination ever, but I'm just going to abandon your analogy for that point. Maybe right now, with the current ratio of lawbreakers to paying customers, the actions are not so detrimental. However, if more people decide to become lawbreakers, it will destroy the industry. You can't honestly think it's ok to break the law just because it's only a few people doing it?
I don't want to pirate. But developers have made me do it due to thier insane DRMs, crappy console ports and close to illegal hype campaigns surrounding certain games. When i say illegal i mean it as in false advertising. Something like Ubisoft dose from time to time. Show stuff off saying it will be in the game, but come release said feature is nowhere to be found.
If you don't like DRM, crappy console ports, and overhyped games then...don't buy them! If you don't like it, don't play it! Shockingly simple really. It's pathetic how you attempt to justify it, just be a man and admit you're being immoral and get on with your pirating. Since this thread loves half-baked analogies...I don't want to cheat on my wife, but she nags me all the time and makes me do my own laundry so really she made me do it. Leaving her is not an option because there are some things I like about her and would miss out on. But seriously it's all her fault.
You have not read the whole thread i guess... Some of the games that have insane DRMs and are crappy console ports and are overhyped can still be a good game (belive it or not). A good example is TES: Oblivion. I actualy enjoyd that game but would not have bought it if i had not pirated it due to all the shit it got from everyone i know.
And how you can call me immoral for not wanting to get cheated by a developer is beyond me. Are they not being immoral for not being honest about thier product?
The developer isn't cheating you. If you aren't convinced by the product, then don't buy it. DRM, porting, etc is all part of the product. I don't throw a hissy fit like a child when I order a meal at a restaurant that I don't like, and you shouldn't whine like a child when you buy a game and end up not liking it. Next time, I'll order a burger because I know it's going to be alright, and you can stick to X developer whose games you always enjoy if you're too immature to handle trying new things and not liking them.
If I'm promised +40 hours of gameplay and I finish it under 10 after doing everything, is it not cheating? If I buy a game and DRM/Securom/whatever makes it impossible to play, is it not cheating? If I'm promised X in game, but i get just /, is it not cheating? Yes it is, and that happens. Alot.. It's just the same as buying a new computer but when it arrives it has 3 year old components. And I sure as hell would start whining about it. Your an idiot if you don't.
And this is also the reason why you are able to check most of the items beforehand so you can avoid nasty surprises.
Well, if you feel like you've been cheated by false advertising, the appropriate response is to take legal action and sue, not to steal from the companies.
Do you think a Rhapsody like service could work for video games?
I subscribe to Rhapsody, and have for a few years now, and I really like it because it lets me listen to anything available through their service. TONS of music, that I would never purchase on CD or MP3 in a million years, is available to me to test out. I've found a lot of new-to-me music there. I've browsed music threads here and picked up artists that I now listed to regularly. When a new CD Comes out I can play it, and if I like it I'll either choose to continue to listen to it in rhapsody only (at my PC or on my droid) or I'll buy CD. I do not buy many CD's anymore, but I still do occassionally.
Would you subscribe to Steam if they opened their entire library up to you for 20 or 30 dollars a month? How many console users use Gamefly? Mabye there's a model that would work better that isn't in use yet. When steam first came out I vowed I would not use it because I need that physical CD. Now, It's almost silly to buy my games in stores. It's so easy to just buy and download, and they have sales often enough that I have a ton of games for a good price. So I think the model is evolving, and we've got more evolving to do.
I wish PC Games weren't made for consoles and then ported to PC anymore. I hope people don't stop making games for PC... The only to make this happen is to pay money for them.
On December 01 2011 08:15 Brutefidget wrote: Ideas like "The industry does fine without me buying games" and "If games weren't so overpriced then I would buy them" are poison to the gaming industry. If everyone started acting like this, we'd all have no games. I've made this exact same point like 4 times and I have yet to see anyone refute it. Please, piracy advocates, explain how if everyone pirates that there would still be a gaming industry.
the point is that it isn't a point, because not everyone pirates. people buy stuff if they can afford it and if what they purchase is better than what they pirate. many can afford it, and BECAUSE of piracy, game distributors have finally managed to provide an equally good service as pirates do.
this thread is full of horrible analogies, so allow me to make some more. basically, many things are illegal in society. in norway, it's illegal to urinate in public. generally, it's seen as a good thing, that not everyone urinates in public, but it is also preferable if people are occasionally able to urinate in public without being fined as opposed to pissing their pants. your idea that "if everyone pirated, we'd have to gaming industry", is akin to a statement such as "if everyone pissed in public, our cities would smell like piss", but both are just.. meaningless statements, because not everyone pirates, not everyone wants to pirate, just like not everyone urinates in public because not everyone wants to urinate in public. but sometimes, pirating is preferable to not playing a game, and urinating in public is preferable to pissing your pants. you can say "but you shouldn't have gone out drinking knowing that you might find yourself having to piss without a suitable toilet nearby", just as you can say "well maybe you should have done something else than play a game you weren't able to afford", the fact is, in neither scenario is society hurt in a significant manner by the actions of the lawbreakers. meanwhile, lawbreakers have improved life quality specifically because they broke the law, and for me, as an innocent bystander, I'm both happy that mr pissypants didn't accidentially stumble into me soaking me in his piss, just as I am happy that my peg-legged friend recommended me and gave me a copy of dune 2 19 years ago which kickstarted my RTS gaming experience and ensured that I would contribute to the gaming industry for the rest of my adult life.
Many people in this topic already have admitted to not buying stuff if they can afford it. If you just download a game, you save 60 dollars towards a new car! Why ever buy a game, right guys?
You can't say it's not a point. You can say it's not reality, but that doesn't make it any less of a point. That is the exact reason why urinating in public is illegal and should be illegal, and piracy should be no different. Society would be much worse off if everyone adopted that behavior. It's very selfish to think that your actions, which are detrimental, are ok because you're only one person. To me, the person who buys games, if you don't pay for it of course I'd prefer for you to not play it. It's the same as me thinking that I'd much rather have people acting responsibly and finding a toilet rather than peeing all over my city.
"Not everyone wants to pirate" - Untrue. Everyone would prefer to have something free, but those who don't want to pirate are those who understand that it hurts the gaming industry. So while not everyone wants to "pirate," everyone wants the same thing the pirates take.
"In neither scenario is society hurt in a significant manner by the actions of the lawbreakers." - I fail to see how society benefits from public urination ever, but I'm just going to abandon your analogy for that point. Maybe right now, with the current ratio of lawbreakers to paying customers, the actions are not so detrimental. However, if more people decide to become lawbreakers, it will destroy the industry. You can't honestly think it's ok to break the law just because it's only a few people doing it?
I don't want to pirate. But developers have made me do it due to thier insane DRMs, crappy console ports and close to illegal hype campaigns surrounding certain games. When i say illegal i mean it as in false advertising. Something like Ubisoft dose from time to time. Show stuff off saying it will be in the game, but come release said feature is nowhere to be found.
If you don't like DRM, crappy console ports, and overhyped games then...don't buy them! If you don't like it, don't play it! Shockingly simple really. It's pathetic how you attempt to justify it, just be a man and admit you're being immoral and get on with your pirating. Since this thread loves half-baked analogies...I don't want to cheat on my wife, but she nags me all the time and makes me do my own laundry so really she made me do it. Leaving her is not an option because there are some things I like about her and would miss out on. But seriously it's all her fault.
You have not read the whole thread i guess... Some of the games that have insane DRMs and are crappy console ports and are overhyped can still be a good game (belive it or not). A good example is TES: Oblivion. I actualy enjoyd that game but would not have bought it if i had not pirated it due to all the shit it got from everyone i know.
And how you can call me immoral for not wanting to get cheated by a developer is beyond me. Are they not being immoral for not being honest about thier product?
The developer isn't cheating you. If you aren't convinced by the product, then don't buy it. DRM, porting, etc is all part of the product. I don't throw a hissy fit like a child when I order a meal at a restaurant that I don't like, and you shouldn't whine like a child when you buy a game and end up not liking it. Next time, I'll order a burger because I know it's going to be alright, and you can stick to X developer whose games you always enjoy if you're too immature to handle trying new things and not liking them.
maybe the restaurant business would actually produce a better product if consumers could have delivered free samples of their food prior to visiting to ensure that this restaurant makes food that I am willing to pay x for.. I mean, there'd be some decline in visits because some would prefer to simply eat for free at home, but others who could afford it, would still go visit the restaurant to ensure that they make enough money to produce tasty food, for the feeling of companionship with whomever they went together with, and the waitering. meanwhile, crappy restaurants experience an even steeper decline in visits because as people could try their food prior to going, they realized it was crap and didn't have to.
The point is that if you are willing to play a game, then that developer/publisher has earned your money just as much as the chef whose food you consume. The gaming industry already provides demos for some titles, which is more than you get when you go to a restaurant, yet when people are unhappy with their food they don't walk out on the bill. Don't want to buy a game without a demo? Too bad, don't buy it. There are plenty of games with demos for you to try out and choose from. The fact that these games are still pirated (someone even posted earlier that demos aren't "the full game" so they pirate the rest of it) shows incredible immaturity and entitlement.
Piracy can only be beaten by consumers making the choice to pay for the product.
If you pirate music, movies, video games, books, etc... then you are part of the problem. Unless those books are the seventh edition of the same textbook that your *expletive deleted* professor wrote and is making you get because he/she wants more money...
On November 30 2011 22:24 Interloper wrote: Many people who pirate do so because they want to try a game out. If they enjoy the game, they will buy it too support the developer. 4,5 million downloads becomes a useless figure since you can not in any way know how many of those 4,5 million purchased the game afterwards. I feel that piracy is a good way to get rid of shitty developers how make crappy games only for the sake of making money (Well all developers want to make money ofc, but i hope you get my point). Good developers get the money they need and then some. Piracy will not be the end of gaming.
This is the most common reason that has been given to me but more than often the person is also an expert at procrastination and gives the "oh I'll buy it later excuse". In the case of single player games, what usually winds up happening is that they'll beat the game and it becomes forgotten on their computers. Either way, I'd be willing to be a huge chunk of those who pirated wouldn't have bothered buying the game if piracy wasn't an option in the first place (in which case nothing would have been lost anyway).
I would rather prefer to see game demos be more prominent to get rid of that whole "I wanted to try the game" excuse.
But demos aren't the full game! They often don't give you enough experience to decide. Also the game can look promising in the beginning but turn out shitty.
For example. I pirated Portal 2. I liked it. I went out and bought it months after I completed the game just because I wanted to support Valve.
I pirated Amnesia. I liked it. I am planning on buying it soon (tight on cash).
I pirated CoD. It sucked. I didnt buy it. Everybody's happy (except Activision trying to steal my money).
So? I don't get your point? Name one other industry where you get to enjoy the full benefit of the product and then get to CHOOSE whether or not you pay for it? If you went into a restaurant, asked for a steak, ate the entire thing then told them you won't pay them cause it wasn't good enough, they would probably tell you to keep dreaming and phone the police.
I'm not being some holy Internet warrior trying to fight pirates. I have pirated stuff before myself. But stop trying to make excuses about why what you are doing is ok. Sorry but just because you feel you are entitled to enjoy the entire content of a good before you choose whether or not it deserves your money doesn't make it right. I hate to break it to you but your opinion on whether or not a game deserves money means next to nothing.
If you are gonna pirate fine, but stop trying to justify to yourself that it is 'right'.
I know it has been done before where people pay what they think something is worth. I think it was Radiohead who released thier album for free. If you liked it you could donate how ever much money you think it was worth. Same concept with a resturant not too far away from where i live. When i still was in school they guy who owned the place came and had a lecture, and he said they neither lost nor gained a noteworthy amount of cash from this method. Some would be douchebags and pay nothing even though it was nothing wrong with the food, others would pay huge amounts for the food and service. So it's not an insane concept.
Yeah it isn't an insane concept, and I know about Radiohead doing it. The point is that the developer CHOSE to do so. They weighed up the pros and cons and concluded that in this case it was their best interest to do so. You don't just go ahead of your own accord and decide for yourself that this is the situation lol.
As I said I'm not some internet angel I have pirated myself, but people need to stop trying to justify it.
On December 01 2011 08:15 Brutefidget wrote: Ideas like "The industry does fine without me buying games" and "If games weren't so overpriced then I would buy them" are poison to the gaming industry. If everyone started acting like this, we'd all have no games. I've made this exact same point like 4 times and I have yet to see anyone refute it. Please, piracy advocates, explain how if everyone pirates that there would still be a gaming industry.
the point is that it isn't a point, because not everyone pirates. people buy stuff if they can afford it and if what they purchase is better than what they pirate. many can afford it, and BECAUSE of piracy, game distributors have finally managed to provide an equally good service as pirates do.
this thread is full of horrible analogies, so allow me to make some more. basically, many things are illegal in society. in norway, it's illegal to urinate in public. generally, it's seen as a good thing, that not everyone urinates in public, but it is also preferable if people are occasionally able to urinate in public without being fined as opposed to pissing their pants. your idea that "if everyone pirated, we'd have to gaming industry", is akin to a statement such as "if everyone pissed in public, our cities would smell like piss", but both are just.. meaningless statements, because not everyone pirates, not everyone wants to pirate, just like not everyone urinates in public because not everyone wants to urinate in public. but sometimes, pirating is preferable to not playing a game, and urinating in public is preferable to pissing your pants. you can say "but you shouldn't have gone out drinking knowing that you might find yourself having to piss without a suitable toilet nearby", just as you can say "well maybe you should have done something else than play a game you weren't able to afford", the fact is, in neither scenario is society hurt in a significant manner by the actions of the lawbreakers. meanwhile, lawbreakers have improved life quality specifically because they broke the law, and for me, as an innocent bystander, I'm both happy that mr pissypants didn't accidentially stumble into me soaking me in his piss, just as I am happy that my peg-legged friend recommended me and gave me a copy of dune 2 19 years ago which kickstarted my RTS gaming experience and ensured that I would contribute to the gaming industry for the rest of my adult life.
Many people in this topic already have admitted to not buying stuff if they can afford it. If you just download a game, you save 60 dollars towards a new car! Why ever buy a game, right guys?
You can't say it's not a point. You can say it's not reality, but that doesn't make it any less of a point. That is the exact reason why urinating in public is illegal and should be illegal, and piracy should be no different. Society would be much worse off if everyone adopted that behavior. It's very selfish to think that your actions, which are detrimental, are ok because you're only one person. To me, the person who buys games, if you don't pay for it of course I'd prefer for you to not play it. It's the same as me thinking that I'd much rather have people acting responsibly and finding a toilet rather than peeing all over my city.
"Not everyone wants to pirate" - Untrue. Everyone would prefer to have something free, but those who don't want to pirate are those who understand that it hurts the gaming industry. So while not everyone wants to "pirate," everyone wants the same thing the pirates take.
"In neither scenario is society hurt in a significant manner by the actions of the lawbreakers." - I fail to see how society benefits from public urination ever, but I'm just going to abandon your analogy for that point. Maybe right now, with the current ratio of lawbreakers to paying customers, the actions are not so detrimental. However, if more people decide to become lawbreakers, it will destroy the industry. You can't honestly think it's ok to break the law just because it's only a few people doing it?
I don't want to pirate. But developers have made me do it due to thier insane DRMs, crappy console ports and close to illegal hype campaigns surrounding certain games. When i say illegal i mean it as in false advertising. Something like Ubisoft dose from time to time. Show stuff off saying it will be in the game, but come release said feature is nowhere to be found.
If you don't like DRM, crappy console ports, and overhyped games then...don't buy them! If you don't like it, don't play it! Shockingly simple really. It's pathetic how you attempt to justify it, just be a man and admit you're being immoral and get on with your pirating. Since this thread loves half-baked analogies...I don't want to cheat on my wife, but she nags me all the time and makes me do my own laundry so really she made me do it. Leaving her is not an option because there are some things I like about her and would miss out on. But seriously it's all her fault.
You have not read the whole thread i guess... Some of the games that have insane DRMs and are crappy console ports and are overhyped can still be a good game (belive it or not). A good example is TES: Oblivion. I actualy enjoyd that game but would not have bought it if i had not pirated it due to all the shit it got from everyone i know.
And how you can call me immoral for not wanting to get cheated by a developer is beyond me. Are they not being immoral for not being honest about thier product?
The developer isn't cheating you. If you aren't convinced by the product, then don't buy it. DRM, porting, etc is all part of the product. I don't throw a hissy fit like a child when I order a meal at a restaurant that I don't like, and you shouldn't whine like a child when you buy a game and end up not liking it. Next time, I'll order a burger because I know it's going to be alright, and you can stick to X developer whose games you always enjoy if you're too immature to handle trying new things and not liking them.
maybe the restaurant business would actually produce a better product if consumers could have delivered free samples of their food prior to visiting to ensure that this restaurant makes food that I am willing to pay x for.. I mean, there'd be some decline in visits because some would prefer to simply eat for free at home, but others who could afford it, would still go visit the restaurant to ensure that they make enough money to produce tasty food, for the feeling of companionship with whomever they went together with, and the waitering. meanwhile, crappy restaurants experience an even steeper decline in visits because as people could try their food prior to going, they realized it was crap and didn't have to.
The point is that if you are willing to play a game, then that developer/publisher has earned your money just as much as the chef whose food you consume. The gaming industry already provides demos for some titles, which is more than you get when you go to a restaurant, yet when people are unhappy with their food they don't walk out on the bill. Don't want to buy a game without a demo? Too bad, don't buy it. There are plenty of games with demos for you to try out and choose from. The fact that these games are still pirated (someone even posted earlier that demos aren't "the full game" so they pirate the rest of it) shows incredible immaturity and entitlement.
They may not walk out on the bill but they will complain and get a new dish if the food is horrid. That can't be done with games. But since you are hell bent on allowing companys/developers/resturants get away with anything, this won't matter to you i guess.
I pre-ordered BF3 from Amazon and received it the day before release.
Note: BF3 was on torrent sites the day before I received my purchased copy. I didn't torrent it.
The day BF3 arrived, my internet was cut off due to moving home. It took three weeks for internet to be installed and activated at my new property. You can argue that I couldn't have experienced the multi-player aspect of the game whether I had bought or torrented, but really, NOT BEING ABLE TO EVEN INSTALL THE FUCKING GAME FOR THREE FUCKING WEEKS TO PLAY SINGLE-PLAYER because you need internet to even install from DVD is absolutely bullshit.
If i'd taken the "easy" option and torrented, I could have been blasting through the single-player for the mentioned three weeks. Measures like this make me not want to pay cash for games and take the DRM-free option that, rather ironically, gives me complete freedom over the restrictions of a purchased copy.
On December 01 2011 08:15 Brutefidget wrote: Ideas like "The industry does fine without me buying games" and "If games weren't so overpriced then I would buy them" are poison to the gaming industry. If everyone started acting like this, we'd all have no games. I've made this exact same point like 4 times and I have yet to see anyone refute it. Please, piracy advocates, explain how if everyone pirates that there would still be a gaming industry.
the point is that it isn't a point, because not everyone pirates. people buy stuff if they can afford it and if what they purchase is better than what they pirate. many can afford it, and BECAUSE of piracy, game distributors have finally managed to provide an equally good service as pirates do.
this thread is full of horrible analogies, so allow me to make some more. basically, many things are illegal in society. in norway, it's illegal to urinate in public. generally, it's seen as a good thing, that not everyone urinates in public, but it is also preferable if people are occasionally able to urinate in public without being fined as opposed to pissing their pants. your idea that "if everyone pirated, we'd have to gaming industry", is akin to a statement such as "if everyone pissed in public, our cities would smell like piss", but both are just.. meaningless statements, because not everyone pirates, not everyone wants to pirate, just like not everyone urinates in public because not everyone wants to urinate in public. but sometimes, pirating is preferable to not playing a game, and urinating in public is preferable to pissing your pants. you can say "but you shouldn't have gone out drinking knowing that you might find yourself having to piss without a suitable toilet nearby", just as you can say "well maybe you should have done something else than play a game you weren't able to afford", the fact is, in neither scenario is society hurt in a significant manner by the actions of the lawbreakers. meanwhile, lawbreakers have improved life quality specifically because they broke the law, and for me, as an innocent bystander, I'm both happy that mr pissypants didn't accidentially stumble into me soaking me in his piss, just as I am happy that my peg-legged friend recommended me and gave me a copy of dune 2 19 years ago which kickstarted my RTS gaming experience and ensured that I would contribute to the gaming industry for the rest of my adult life.
Many people in this topic already have admitted to not buying stuff if they can afford it. If you just download a game, you save 60 dollars towards a new car! Why ever buy a game, right guys?
You can't say it's not a point. You can say it's not reality, but that doesn't make it any less of a point. That is the exact reason why urinating in public is illegal and should be illegal, and piracy should be no different. Society would be much worse off if everyone adopted that behavior. It's very selfish to think that your actions, which are detrimental, are ok because you're only one person. To me, the person who buys games, if you don't pay for it of course I'd prefer for you to not play it. It's the same as me thinking that I'd much rather have people acting responsibly and finding a toilet rather than peeing all over my city.
"Not everyone wants to pirate" - Untrue. Everyone would prefer to have something free, but those who don't want to pirate are those who understand that it hurts the gaming industry. So while not everyone wants to "pirate," everyone wants the same thing the pirates take.
"In neither scenario is society hurt in a significant manner by the actions of the lawbreakers." - I fail to see how society benefits from public urination ever, but I'm just going to abandon your analogy for that point. Maybe right now, with the current ratio of lawbreakers to paying customers, the actions are not so detrimental. However, if more people decide to become lawbreakers, it will destroy the industry. You can't honestly think it's ok to break the law just because it's only a few people doing it?
I don't want to pirate. But developers have made me do it due to thier insane DRMs, crappy console ports and close to illegal hype campaigns surrounding certain games. When i say illegal i mean it as in false advertising. Something like Ubisoft dose from time to time. Show stuff off saying it will be in the game, but come release said feature is nowhere to be found.
If you don't like DRM, crappy console ports, and overhyped games then...don't buy them! If you don't like it, don't play it! Shockingly simple really. It's pathetic how you attempt to justify it, just be a man and admit you're being immoral and get on with your pirating. Since this thread loves half-baked analogies...I don't want to cheat on my wife, but she nags me all the time and makes me do my own laundry so really she made me do it. Leaving her is not an option because there are some things I like about her and would miss out on. But seriously it's all her fault.
You have not read the whole thread i guess... Some of the games that have insane DRMs and are crappy console ports and are overhyped can still be a good game (belive it or not). A good example is TES: Oblivion. I actualy enjoyd that game but would not have bought it if i had not pirated it due to all the shit it got from everyone i know.
And how you can call me immoral for not wanting to get cheated by a developer is beyond me. Are they not being immoral for not being honest about thier product?
The developer isn't cheating you. If you aren't convinced by the product, then don't buy it. DRM, porting, etc is all part of the product. I don't throw a hissy fit like a child when I order a meal at a restaurant that I don't like, and you shouldn't whine like a child when you buy a game and end up not liking it. Next time, I'll order a burger because I know it's going to be alright, and you can stick to X developer whose games you always enjoy if you're too immature to handle trying new things and not liking them.
maybe the restaurant business would actually produce a better product if consumers could have delivered free samples of their food prior to visiting to ensure that this restaurant makes food that I am willing to pay x for.. I mean, there'd be some decline in visits because some would prefer to simply eat for free at home, but others who could afford it, would still go visit the restaurant to ensure that they make enough money to produce tasty food, for the feeling of companionship with whomever they went together with, and the waitering. meanwhile, crappy restaurants experience an even steeper decline in visits because as people could try their food prior to going, they realized it was crap and didn't have to.
The point is that if you are willing to play a game, then that developer/publisher has earned your money just as much as the chef whose food you consume. The gaming industry already provides demos for some titles, which is more than you get when you go to a restaurant, yet when people are unhappy with their food they don't walk out on the bill. Don't want to buy a game without a demo? Too bad, don't buy it. There are plenty of games with demos for you to try out and choose from. The fact that these games are still pirated (someone even posted earlier that demos aren't "the full game" so they pirate the rest of it) shows incredible immaturity and entitlement.
They may not walk out on the bill but they will complain and get a new dish if the food is horrid. That can't be done with games. But since you are hell bent on allowing companys/developers/resturants get away with anything, this won't matter to you i guess.
If I get horrid food at a restaurant I will tell my waiter, pay my bill, and never come back. If the chef or manager would like to offer me another dish or a free return visit, that is his prerogative to try to win back my future patronage. You are free to leave feedback with Ubisoft, Activision, whoever you want, and if they care about your business they will address your concern. If they don't fix whatever your problem was then don't get future games from them (note that I said get, since you already aren't buying). Take your money and buy the next Bethesda, Blizzard, or Bioware title, whatever company you like.
But since you are hellbent on refusing to take any responsibility for your actions or conduct yourself as a mature, moral adult, this won't matter to you I guess.
Not sure if it's been mentioned already and I really don't feel like reading through 28 pages, so I'm just going to post this here (mostly in reply to the OP).
On November 30 2011 22:24 Interloper wrote: Many people who pirate do so because they want to try a game out. If they enjoy the game, they will buy it too support the developer. 4,5 million downloads becomes a useless figure since you can not in any way know how many of those 4,5 million purchased the game afterwards. I feel that piracy is a good way to get rid of shitty developers how make crappy games only for the sake of making money (Well all developers want to make money ofc, but i hope you get my point). Good developers get the money they need and then some. Piracy will not be the end of gaming.
This is the most common reason that has been given to me but more than often the person is also an expert at procrastination and gives the "oh I'll buy it later excuse". In the case of single player games, what usually winds up happening is that they'll beat the game and it becomes forgotten on their computers. Either way, I'd be willing to be a huge chunk of those who pirated wouldn't have bothered buying the game if piracy wasn't an option in the first place (in which case nothing would have been lost anyway).
I would rather prefer to see game demos be more prominent to get rid of that whole "I wanted to try the game" excuse.
But demos aren't the full game! They often don't give you enough experience to decide. Also the game can look promising in the beginning but turn out shitty.
For example. I pirated Portal 2. I liked it. I went out and bought it months after I completed the game just because I wanted to support Valve.
I pirated Amnesia. I liked it. I am planning on buying it soon (tight on cash).
I pirated CoD. It sucked. I didnt buy it. Everybody's happy (except Activision trying to steal my money).
So? I don't get your point? Name one other industry where you get to enjoy the full benefit of the product and then get to CHOOSE whether or not you pay for it? If you went into a restaurant, asked for a steak, ate the entire thing then told them you won't pay them cause it wasn't good enough, they would probably tell you to keep dreaming and phone the police.
I'm not being some holy Internet warrior trying to fight pirates. I have pirated stuff before myself. But stop trying to make excuses about why what you are doing is ok. Sorry but just because you feel you are entitled to enjoy the entire content of a good before you choose whether or not it deserves your money doesn't make it right. I hate to break it to you but your opinion on whether or not a game deserves money means next to nothing.
If you are gonna pirate fine, but stop trying to justify to yourself that it is 'right'.
Clothing industry and shoe sellers do this you know, try first, pay later. Or buy, but full refund if you don't like it, test time a week or something.
On December 01 2011 08:28 Liquid`Drone wrote: [quote]
the point is that it isn't a point, because not everyone pirates. people buy stuff if they can afford it and if what they purchase is better than what they pirate. many can afford it, and BECAUSE of piracy, game distributors have finally managed to provide an equally good service as pirates do.
this thread is full of horrible analogies, so allow me to make some more. basically, many things are illegal in society. in norway, it's illegal to urinate in public. generally, it's seen as a good thing, that not everyone urinates in public, but it is also preferable if people are occasionally able to urinate in public without being fined as opposed to pissing their pants. your idea that "if everyone pirated, we'd have to gaming industry", is akin to a statement such as "if everyone pissed in public, our cities would smell like piss", but both are just.. meaningless statements, because not everyone pirates, not everyone wants to pirate, just like not everyone urinates in public because not everyone wants to urinate in public. but sometimes, pirating is preferable to not playing a game, and urinating in public is preferable to pissing your pants. you can say "but you shouldn't have gone out drinking knowing that you might find yourself having to piss without a suitable toilet nearby", just as you can say "well maybe you should have done something else than play a game you weren't able to afford", the fact is, in neither scenario is society hurt in a significant manner by the actions of the lawbreakers. meanwhile, lawbreakers have improved life quality specifically because they broke the law, and for me, as an innocent bystander, I'm both happy that mr pissypants didn't accidentially stumble into me soaking me in his piss, just as I am happy that my peg-legged friend recommended me and gave me a copy of dune 2 19 years ago which kickstarted my RTS gaming experience and ensured that I would contribute to the gaming industry for the rest of my adult life.
Many people in this topic already have admitted to not buying stuff if they can afford it. If you just download a game, you save 60 dollars towards a new car! Why ever buy a game, right guys?
You can't say it's not a point. You can say it's not reality, but that doesn't make it any less of a point. That is the exact reason why urinating in public is illegal and should be illegal, and piracy should be no different. Society would be much worse off if everyone adopted that behavior. It's very selfish to think that your actions, which are detrimental, are ok because you're only one person. To me, the person who buys games, if you don't pay for it of course I'd prefer for you to not play it. It's the same as me thinking that I'd much rather have people acting responsibly and finding a toilet rather than peeing all over my city.
"Not everyone wants to pirate" - Untrue. Everyone would prefer to have something free, but those who don't want to pirate are those who understand that it hurts the gaming industry. So while not everyone wants to "pirate," everyone wants the same thing the pirates take.
"In neither scenario is society hurt in a significant manner by the actions of the lawbreakers." - I fail to see how society benefits from public urination ever, but I'm just going to abandon your analogy for that point. Maybe right now, with the current ratio of lawbreakers to paying customers, the actions are not so detrimental. However, if more people decide to become lawbreakers, it will destroy the industry. You can't honestly think it's ok to break the law just because it's only a few people doing it?
I don't want to pirate. But developers have made me do it due to thier insane DRMs, crappy console ports and close to illegal hype campaigns surrounding certain games. When i say illegal i mean it as in false advertising. Something like Ubisoft dose from time to time. Show stuff off saying it will be in the game, but come release said feature is nowhere to be found.
If you don't like DRM, crappy console ports, and overhyped games then...don't buy them! If you don't like it, don't play it! Shockingly simple really. It's pathetic how you attempt to justify it, just be a man and admit you're being immoral and get on with your pirating. Since this thread loves half-baked analogies...I don't want to cheat on my wife, but she nags me all the time and makes me do my own laundry so really she made me do it. Leaving her is not an option because there are some things I like about her and would miss out on. But seriously it's all her fault.
You have not read the whole thread i guess... Some of the games that have insane DRMs and are crappy console ports and are overhyped can still be a good game (belive it or not). A good example is TES: Oblivion. I actualy enjoyd that game but would not have bought it if i had not pirated it due to all the shit it got from everyone i know.
And how you can call me immoral for not wanting to get cheated by a developer is beyond me. Are they not being immoral for not being honest about thier product?
The developer isn't cheating you. If you aren't convinced by the product, then don't buy it. DRM, porting, etc is all part of the product. I don't throw a hissy fit like a child when I order a meal at a restaurant that I don't like, and you shouldn't whine like a child when you buy a game and end up not liking it. Next time, I'll order a burger because I know it's going to be alright, and you can stick to X developer whose games you always enjoy if you're too immature to handle trying new things and not liking them.
maybe the restaurant business would actually produce a better product if consumers could have delivered free samples of their food prior to visiting to ensure that this restaurant makes food that I am willing to pay x for.. I mean, there'd be some decline in visits because some would prefer to simply eat for free at home, but others who could afford it, would still go visit the restaurant to ensure that they make enough money to produce tasty food, for the feeling of companionship with whomever they went together with, and the waitering. meanwhile, crappy restaurants experience an even steeper decline in visits because as people could try their food prior to going, they realized it was crap and didn't have to.
The point is that if you are willing to play a game, then that developer/publisher has earned your money just as much as the chef whose food you consume. The gaming industry already provides demos for some titles, which is more than you get when you go to a restaurant, yet when people are unhappy with their food they don't walk out on the bill. Don't want to buy a game without a demo? Too bad, don't buy it. There are plenty of games with demos for you to try out and choose from. The fact that these games are still pirated (someone even posted earlier that demos aren't "the full game" so they pirate the rest of it) shows incredible immaturity and entitlement.
They may not walk out on the bill but they will complain and get a new dish if the food is horrid. That can't be done with games. But since you are hell bent on allowing companys/developers/resturants get away with anything, this won't matter to you i guess.
If I get horrid food at a restaurant I will tell my waiter, pay my bill, and never come back. If the chef or manager would like to offer me another dish or a free return visit, that is his prerogative to try to win back my future patronage. You are free to leave feedback with Ubisoft, Activision, whoever you want, and if they care about your business they will address your concern. If they don't fix whatever your problem was then don't get future games from them (note that I said get, since you already aren't buying). Take your money and buy the next Bethesda, Blizzard, or Bioware title, whatever company you like.
But since you are hellbent on refusing to take any responsibility for your actions or conduct yourself as a mature, moral adult, this won't matter to you I guess.
Ok, this will not lead to anything than a temp-ban for one of us if this keeps heading the same way. But i don't think if i leave 1 complaint with Ubisoft they will care. At all. Even if 1,000,000 did they won't care seeing as how huge the community out cry has been. Piracy is the only way i see companys changing anything at all with how they go about making games and handling thier customers. If you want to call me a pathetic child who throw "hissy fits" and acts immature and refuses to take responsibility for my actions, fine. You won't change your mind, neither will i.
Last post i make in this thread so it won't off topic or reduce it self to name calling, if you want, P.M.
EPT
