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On December 01 2011 07:57 Mammel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 07:48 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 07:37 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 07:18 Yergidy wrote:On December 01 2011 07:15 Mammel wrote:"against computer pirates who put illegal copies of movies and television series on the Internet" "Wednesday for illegally downloading and distributing popular songs either from the Internet or from CDs on mobile phones." "They had alleged she shared 1,702 songs online in violation of their copyrights. " I think I said "unless his been sharing them." http://www.switched.com/2009/06/19/woman-fined-1-9-million-for-downloading-24-songs/A simple google search brought this up... I think you know how to use a browser. And you actually want to pay to those fuckers  ? No matter how much I have money, I wouldn't. But anyway, I don't know about US laws, but I do know that if you download anything here, you will get absolutely nothing for it. I don't actually even know if you could be sued for it here, and I couldn't care less. If it's illegal, then I'm a criminal, but as long as I don't feel like it, I will never pay for a game. I don't know if that'll change when I'm able to afford them without any problems, but right now I want to play, and I want to eat, and as long as it's possible to do both then I'm going to do it. Oh no, they punished her for doing something illegal? How cruel! While it's a dumb story, and the fine is exorbitant, it very clearly states in many places how much you'll be fined for illegally downloading stuff. You take a risk, sometimes you get fucked. Your mindset is immature. "I want I want I want gimme gimme gimme" makes you sound like a child who doesn't know the value of a dollar. "If it's illegal, then I'm a criminal, but as long as I don't feel like it, I will never pay for a game." How petulant. If you can't afford something, you don't get it. Just because this type of theft is easy to pull off doesn't make you tough, doesn't make you right, and just makes you a punk. Get over yourself. I just don't think it's bad to take something you aren't willing to buy as long as taking it hurts no one.
That type of mentality is fine if it wasn't thousands (millions?) of people thinking the same thing for gaming, movies, and music.
"Oh, I'll only pirate a couple games, maybe $500 worth. $500 isn't that much to a big game company."
And then another person thinks that. Then another person. Then another. How long before there are millions, billions of dollars worth of pirated material out there? $60 doesn't hurt anyone. $60 a million times does.
It's like voting in America. You don't think your one vote counts, so you don't vote. Then thousands of people think the same, and the election is completely fucked one way or the other.
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On December 01 2011 07:56 Brutefidget wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 07:46 Zodiac7777 wrote:
I find it disgusting that someone can be sued up to $80,000 per song. The majority of people who pirate songs don't normally pirate one or two songs, they pirate 50 up to thousands upon thousands. It is incredibly stupid in my opinion to ruin someone's life instantly for doing something that barely changes the life of the artist. Buying one song from iTunes will not give the artist that much money, yet they are allowed to sue $80,000? Oh America..... The reasons for these exorbitant fines are that most songs are downloaded through a file sharing or peer to peer application. The downloading of the single song is not viewed as the entirety of the crime; it also needs to be accounted for that the person who downloaded the song also made it available for others to download from them. Thus the attribution of a fine much more costly due to the loss of potential income being that much greater.
Well what about all the free advertising that is done with the pirating? I want to put out there that i know stealing is bad but this is a VERY special case of stealing. People in the music industry understand that pirating is actually a very useful tool to get their name out there. The artists themselves rarely ever get mad at the pirates. I hate to say it but i pirate all my music and if i could not do that i would not have any music downloaded.
Sites like grooveshark, pandora, google music, ect. make this very easy. They save playlists and let you livestream all the music you want for free. In this day and age you actually don't need to pay for music, but enough people do that the "good" artists get paid.
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The reasons for these exorbitant fines are that most songs are downloaded through a file sharing or peer to peer application. The downloading of the single song is not viewed as the entirety of the crime; it also needs to be accounted for that the person who downloaded the song also made it available for others to download from them. Thus the attribution of a fine much more costly due to the loss of potential income being that much greater.
The lost was quantified , around 1700 songs, or around 1700 dollars today. How did that go to 80 000 dollars per song is behind me.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
I seem to remember reading that TW2 made a healthy amount of profit, certainly more than they were expecting. Just looking at the number '4.5 million pirate downloads' sounds bad, but you have to think about whether any one of those would've actually bought the game even if they had the money & the inclination to use it. Not that many I think. In fact I think a good proportion of those who procured the game illegally & enjoyed it will consider buying related products in the future to support the developer. Also CD Projeckt recently announced that they're working on producing multiple titles (new witcher title as well as new IP) and they're currently hiring extra staff. I don't think the piracy affected them that much. I think the majority of those who were either going to, or thinking about buying it did, and those who didn't really have an interest but decided to check it out because of the good reviews, forms the majority of the pirate downloads. I'll admit this is just conjecture, but it really doesn't seem like the piracy ate too much into their target audience much.
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On December 01 2011 08:00 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 07:57 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 07:48 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 07:37 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 07:18 Yergidy wrote:On December 01 2011 07:15 Mammel wrote:"against computer pirates who put illegal copies of movies and television series on the Internet" "Wednesday for illegally downloading and distributing popular songs either from the Internet or from CDs on mobile phones." "They had alleged she shared 1,702 songs online in violation of their copyrights. " I think I said "unless his been sharing them." http://www.switched.com/2009/06/19/woman-fined-1-9-million-for-downloading-24-songs/A simple google search brought this up... I think you know how to use a browser. And you actually want to pay to those fuckers ? No matter how much I have money, I wouldn't. But anyway, I don't know about US laws, but I do know that if you download anything here, you will get absolutely nothing for it. I don't actually even know if you could be sued for it here, and I couldn't care less. If it's illegal, then I'm a criminal, but as long as I don't feel like it, I will never pay for a game. I don't know if that'll change when I'm able to afford them without any problems, but right now I want to play, and I want to eat, and as long as it's possible to do both then I'm going to do it. Oh no, they punished her for doing something illegal? How cruel! While it's a dumb story, and the fine is exorbitant, it very clearly states in many places how much you'll be fined for illegally downloading stuff. You take a risk, sometimes you get fucked. Your mindset is immature. "I want I want I want gimme gimme gimme" makes you sound like a child who doesn't know the value of a dollar. "If it's illegal, then I'm a criminal, but as long as I don't feel like it, I will never pay for a game." How petulant. If you can't afford something, you don't get it. Just because this type of theft is easy to pull off doesn't make you tough, doesn't make you right, and just makes you a punk. Get over yourself. I just don't think it's bad to take something you aren't willing to buy as long as taking it hurts no one. This is such a flawed line of reasoning. It's the exact reason we have things such as the tragedy of the commons.
"tragedy of the commons" Never heard of that term before. I assume you mean US bank crisis few years back + Greece in EU right now?
I don't see the correlation between copying a game for yourself and taking too much loan, hiding your true deficit and not paying your dept... But I'm not saying this as an economist.
That type of mentality is fine if it wasn't thousands (millions?) of people thinking the same thing for gaming, movies, and music.
"Oh, I'll only pirate a couple games, maybe $500 worth. $500 isn't that much to a big game company."
And then another person thinks that. Then another person. Then another. How long before there are millions, billions of dollars worth of pirated material out there? $60 doesn't hurt anyone. $60 a million times does.
It's like voting in America. You don't think your one vote counts, so you don't vote. Then thousands of people think the same, and the election is completely fucked one way or the other.
That's exactly what I didn't say. I can't afford it anyway. The company is ever going to get exactly 0$ from me. If, I'm still able to pirate the game, then sure as hell I'm going to.
And no, that still doesn't make it 60$ lost for the company.
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On December 01 2011 08:02 Maitolasi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 07:59 Cloud9157 wrote:
Honestly, this is why I hate piracy.
Sure, you don't have to pay a dime to get something, sounds great. But when I think about it, the people who made the product get cheated. You love the game enough to pirate it, yet you can't be decent and give the company that made it some money to reward them?
Fuck, no wonder why some games are shit awful these days. People are just going to pirate it if its too amazing. No the devs are not losing anything cause you wouldn't have bought it anyway. Either you realize the game is worth it after pirating it and buy it then or you don't think it's worth it and don't buy it.
I guess reviews/trailers/previous games of some video game series don't have anything to do with that (see Skyrim).
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^^ What if she shared all 1700 to 48 people? That would equate to 81,600
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On December 01 2011 08:04 chickenhawk wrote:Show nested quote +The reasons for these exorbitant fines are that most songs are downloaded through a file sharing or peer to peer application. The downloading of the single song is not viewed as the entirety of the crime; it also needs to be accounted for that the person who downloaded the song also made it available for others to download from them. Thus the attribution of a fine much more costly due to the loss of potential income being that much greater. The lost was quantified , around 1700 songs, or around 1700 dollars today. How did that go to 80 000 dollars per song is behind me.
Read what I wrote. By downloading the song and running a p2p application, the criminal made it AVAILABLE to numerous other people. That's why the fine is so large.
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On December 01 2011 08:07 Mammel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 08:00 Myles wrote:On December 01 2011 07:57 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 07:48 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 07:37 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 07:18 Yergidy wrote:On December 01 2011 07:15 Mammel wrote:"against computer pirates who put illegal copies of movies and television series on the Internet" "Wednesday for illegally downloading and distributing popular songs either from the Internet or from CDs on mobile phones." "They had alleged she shared 1,702 songs online in violation of their copyrights. " I think I said "unless his been sharing them." http://www.switched.com/2009/06/19/woman-fined-1-9-million-for-downloading-24-songs/A simple google search brought this up... I think you know how to use a browser. And you actually want to pay to those fuckers ? No matter how much I have money, I wouldn't. But anyway, I don't know about US laws, but I do know that if you download anything here, you will get absolutely nothing for it. I don't actually even know if you could be sued for it here, and I couldn't care less. If it's illegal, then I'm a criminal, but as long as I don't feel like it, I will never pay for a game. I don't know if that'll change when I'm able to afford them without any problems, but right now I want to play, and I want to eat, and as long as it's possible to do both then I'm going to do it. Oh no, they punished her for doing something illegal? How cruel! While it's a dumb story, and the fine is exorbitant, it very clearly states in many places how much you'll be fined for illegally downloading stuff. You take a risk, sometimes you get fucked. Your mindset is immature. "I want I want I want gimme gimme gimme" makes you sound like a child who doesn't know the value of a dollar. "If it's illegal, then I'm a criminal, but as long as I don't feel like it, I will never pay for a game." How petulant. If you can't afford something, you don't get it. Just because this type of theft is easy to pull off doesn't make you tough, doesn't make you right, and just makes you a punk. Get over yourself. I just don't think it's bad to take something you aren't willing to buy as long as taking it hurts no one. This is such a flawed line of reasoning. It's the exact reason we have things such as the tragedy of the commons. "tragedy of the commons" Never heard of that term before. I assume you mean US bank crisis few years back + Greece in EU right now? I don't see the correlation between copying a game for yourself and taking too much loan, hiding your true deficit and not paying your dept... But I'm not saying this as an economist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons
Yay! Wikipedia!
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On December 01 2011 08:07 Mammel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 08:00 Myles wrote:On December 01 2011 07:57 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 07:48 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 07:37 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 07:18 Yergidy wrote:On December 01 2011 07:15 Mammel wrote:"against computer pirates who put illegal copies of movies and television series on the Internet" "Wednesday for illegally downloading and distributing popular songs either from the Internet or from CDs on mobile phones." "They had alleged she shared 1,702 songs online in violation of their copyrights. " I think I said "unless his been sharing them." http://www.switched.com/2009/06/19/woman-fined-1-9-million-for-downloading-24-songs/A simple google search brought this up... I think you know how to use a browser. And you actually want to pay to those fuckers ? No matter how much I have money, I wouldn't. But anyway, I don't know about US laws, but I do know that if you download anything here, you will get absolutely nothing for it. I don't actually even know if you could be sued for it here, and I couldn't care less. If it's illegal, then I'm a criminal, but as long as I don't feel like it, I will never pay for a game. I don't know if that'll change when I'm able to afford them without any problems, but right now I want to play, and I want to eat, and as long as it's possible to do both then I'm going to do it. Oh no, they punished her for doing something illegal? How cruel! While it's a dumb story, and the fine is exorbitant, it very clearly states in many places how much you'll be fined for illegally downloading stuff. You take a risk, sometimes you get fucked. Your mindset is immature. "I want I want I want gimme gimme gimme" makes you sound like a child who doesn't know the value of a dollar. "If it's illegal, then I'm a criminal, but as long as I don't feel like it, I will never pay for a game." How petulant. If you can't afford something, you don't get it. Just because this type of theft is easy to pull off doesn't make you tough, doesn't make you right, and just makes you a punk. Get over yourself. I just don't think it's bad to take something you aren't willing to buy as long as taking it hurts no one. This is such a flawed line of reasoning. It's the exact reason we have things such as the tragedy of the commons. "tragedy of the commons" Never heard of that term before. I assume you mean US bank crisis few years back + Greece in EU right now? I don't see the correlation between copying a game for yourself and taking too much loan, hiding your true deficit and not paying your dept... But I'm not saying this as an economist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons
Everyone thinks "It's ok if I do this, it's not that bad". Thinking only of themselves, expecting the rest of the world to take care of itself together. Until everyone starts thinking like this, and it falls apart because everyone is an individual and not a group.
One person pirating a CD doesn't cost much to the publisher. A million people pirating dozens each does.
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Ideas like "The industry does fine without me buying games" and "If games weren't so overpriced then I would buy them" are poison to the gaming industry. If everyone started acting like this, we'd all have no games. I've made this exact same point like 4 times and I have yet to see anyone refute it. Please, piracy advocates, explain how if everyone pirates that there would still be a gaming industry.
*edited for grammar
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Read what I wrote. By downloading the song and running a p2p application, the criminal made it AVAILABLE to numerous other people. That's why the fine is so large.
Read the source, she download 24 songs and shared them 1700 times.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-20021735-93.html
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On December 01 2011 08:15 Brutefidget wrote:
Ideas like "The industry does fine without me buying games" and "If games weren't so overpriced then I would buy them" are poison to the gaming industry. If everyone started acting like this, we'd all have no games. I've made this exact same point like 4 times and I have yet to see anyone refute it. Please, piracy advocates, explain how if everyone pirates that there would still be a gaming industry.
*edited for grammar
Their argument turns into : well if the companies didn't release garbage or if they lowered the cost then I'd buy it.
Obviously, knowing that neither of those are likely to happen it means they can say it and then move on to another topic.
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On December 01 2011 08:16 chickenhawk wrote:Show nested quote +Read what I wrote. By downloading the song and running a p2p application, the criminal made it AVAILABLE to numerous other people. That's why the fine is so large. Read the source, she download 24 songs and shared them 1700 times.
Yes, and how many times did those she shared them with share them? And the next level, and so on? How hard can this be to understand?
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United States5162 Posts
On December 01 2011 08:07 Mammel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 08:00 Myles wrote:On December 01 2011 07:57 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 07:48 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 07:37 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 07:18 Yergidy wrote:On December 01 2011 07:15 Mammel wrote:"against computer pirates who put illegal copies of movies and television series on the Internet" "Wednesday for illegally downloading and distributing popular songs either from the Internet or from CDs on mobile phones." "They had alleged she shared 1,702 songs online in violation of their copyrights. " I think I said "unless his been sharing them." http://www.switched.com/2009/06/19/woman-fined-1-9-million-for-downloading-24-songs/A simple google search brought this up... I think you know how to use a browser. And you actually want to pay to those fuckers ? No matter how much I have money, I wouldn't. But anyway, I don't know about US laws, but I do know that if you download anything here, you will get absolutely nothing for it. I don't actually even know if you could be sued for it here, and I couldn't care less. If it's illegal, then I'm a criminal, but as long as I don't feel like it, I will never pay for a game. I don't know if that'll change when I'm able to afford them without any problems, but right now I want to play, and I want to eat, and as long as it's possible to do both then I'm going to do it. Oh no, they punished her for doing something illegal? How cruel! While it's a dumb story, and the fine is exorbitant, it very clearly states in many places how much you'll be fined for illegally downloading stuff. You take a risk, sometimes you get fucked. Your mindset is immature. "I want I want I want gimme gimme gimme" makes you sound like a child who doesn't know the value of a dollar. "If it's illegal, then I'm a criminal, but as long as I don't feel like it, I will never pay for a game." How petulant. If you can't afford something, you don't get it. Just because this type of theft is easy to pull off doesn't make you tough, doesn't make you right, and just makes you a punk. Get over yourself. I just don't think it's bad to take something you aren't willing to buy as long as taking it hurts no one. This is such a flawed line of reasoning. It's the exact reason we have things such as the tragedy of the commons. "tragedy of the commons" Never heard of that term before. I assume you mean US bank crisis few years back + Greece in EU right now? I don't see the correlation between copying a game for yourself and taking too much loan, hiding your true deficit and not paying your dept... But I'm not saying this as an economist. Show nested quote +That type of mentality is fine if it wasn't thousands (millions?) of people thinking the same thing for gaming, movies, and music.
"Oh, I'll only pirate a couple games, maybe $500 worth. $500 isn't that much to a big game company."
And then another person thinks that. Then another person. Then another. How long before there are millions, billions of dollars worth of pirated material out there? $60 doesn't hurt anyone. $60 a million times does.
It's like voting in America. You don't think your one vote counts, so you don't vote. Then thousands of people think the same, and the election is completely fucked one way or the other. That's exactly what I didn't say. I can't afford it anyway. The company is ever going to get exactly 0$ from me. If, I'm still able to pirate the game, then sure as hell I'm going to. And no, that still doesn't make it 60$ lost for the company.
I'll quote wikipedia because it says it better then I can.
'The tragedy of the commons is a dilemma arising from the situation in which multiple individuals, acting independently and rationally consulting their own self-interest, will ultimately deplete a shared limited resource, even when it is clear that it is not in anyone's long-term interest for this to happen.'
It is very prevalent in the environmental world as for the longest time businesses damaged the environment by dumping waste. It made all the sense in the world individually to do so as it would only increase costs to dispose of it in a healthier way. But that's not sustainable as when the environment becomes degraded the cost of doing business becomes greater then if you properly disposed of waste in the first place.
In this case, the very things pirates are supposedly fighting against(crappy games, draconian DRM, cookie-cutter formula) is caused by pirates. 15 years ago before pirating was so wide-spread, the most you had to deal with was a simple CD key. The increase in pirating caused an increase in DRM as well as companies creating games that maximize profit. You think you really aren't hurting anything since you wouldn't buy it anyways, but in fact you're the reason companies act like they do now.
edit: I'll clarify in saying pirates didn't cause crappy games that follow a cookie-cutter formula, but I do feel they hold significant responsibility for the increase in these over the last decade.
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United States7483 Posts
On December 01 2011 07:57 Mammel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 07:48 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 07:37 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 07:18 Yergidy wrote:On December 01 2011 07:15 Mammel wrote:"against computer pirates who put illegal copies of movies and television series on the Internet" "Wednesday for illegally downloading and distributing popular songs either from the Internet or from CDs on mobile phones." "They had alleged she shared 1,702 songs online in violation of their copyrights. " I think I said "unless his been sharing them." http://www.switched.com/2009/06/19/woman-fined-1-9-million-for-downloading-24-songs/A simple google search brought this up... I think you know how to use a browser. And you actually want to pay to those fuckers ? No matter how much I have money, I wouldn't. But anyway, I don't know about US laws, but I do know that if you download anything here, you will get absolutely nothing for it. I don't actually even know if you could be sued for it here, and I couldn't care less. If it's illegal, then I'm a criminal, but as long as I don't feel like it, I will never pay for a game. I don't know if that'll change when I'm able to afford them without any problems, but right now I want to play, and I want to eat, and as long as it's possible to do both then I'm going to do it. Oh no, they punished her for doing something illegal? How cruel! While it's a dumb story, and the fine is exorbitant, it very clearly states in many places how much you'll be fined for illegally downloading stuff. You take a risk, sometimes you get fucked. Your mindset is immature. "I want I want I want gimme gimme gimme" makes you sound like a child who doesn't know the value of a dollar. "If it's illegal, then I'm a criminal, but as long as I don't feel like it, I will never pay for a game." How petulant. If you can't afford something, you don't get it. Just because this type of theft is easy to pull off doesn't make you tough, doesn't make you right, and just makes you a punk. Get over yourself. I just don't think it's bad to take something you aren't willing to buy as long as taking it hurts no one.
No it's not fine, because that person has a right to payment for his product, and you are abusing his property rights. In effect, by not paying for it, you ARE hurting him, even if you wouldn't buy it anyway. You aren't going to pay for it? Don't play it. You want to play it? Buy it. You do not have a right to play any game you want even if you wouldn't buy it.
Stop rationalizing, it's wrong.
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To the people who want to post a comment : Please read the thread beforehand. This is a very interesting topic but the discussion tends to go in circle. I'm not trying to play the backseat moderator but I'm actually interested in this thread and I want it to keep going in a proper way
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On December 01 2011 08:21 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 08:07 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 08:00 Myles wrote:On December 01 2011 07:57 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 07:48 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 07:37 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 07:18 Yergidy wrote:On December 01 2011 07:15 Mammel wrote:"against computer pirates who put illegal copies of movies and television series on the Internet" "Wednesday for illegally downloading and distributing popular songs either from the Internet or from CDs on mobile phones." "They had alleged she shared 1,702 songs online in violation of their copyrights. " I think I said "unless his been sharing them." http://www.switched.com/2009/06/19/woman-fined-1-9-million-for-downloading-24-songs/A simple google search brought this up... I think you know how to use a browser. And you actually want to pay to those fuckers ? No matter how much I have money, I wouldn't. But anyway, I don't know about US laws, but I do know that if you download anything here, you will get absolutely nothing for it. I don't actually even know if you could be sued for it here, and I couldn't care less. If it's illegal, then I'm a criminal, but as long as I don't feel like it, I will never pay for a game. I don't know if that'll change when I'm able to afford them without any problems, but right now I want to play, and I want to eat, and as long as it's possible to do both then I'm going to do it. Oh no, they punished her for doing something illegal? How cruel! While it's a dumb story, and the fine is exorbitant, it very clearly states in many places how much you'll be fined for illegally downloading stuff. You take a risk, sometimes you get fucked. Your mindset is immature. "I want I want I want gimme gimme gimme" makes you sound like a child who doesn't know the value of a dollar. "If it's illegal, then I'm a criminal, but as long as I don't feel like it, I will never pay for a game." How petulant. If you can't afford something, you don't get it. Just because this type of theft is easy to pull off doesn't make you tough, doesn't make you right, and just makes you a punk. Get over yourself. I just don't think it's bad to take something you aren't willing to buy as long as taking it hurts no one. This is such a flawed line of reasoning. It's the exact reason we have things such as the tragedy of the commons. "tragedy of the commons" Never heard of that term before. I assume you mean US bank crisis few years back + Greece in EU right now? I don't see the correlation between copying a game for yourself and taking too much loan, hiding your true deficit and not paying your dept... But I'm not saying this as an economist. That type of mentality is fine if it wasn't thousands (millions?) of people thinking the same thing for gaming, movies, and music.
"Oh, I'll only pirate a couple games, maybe $500 worth. $500 isn't that much to a big game company."
And then another person thinks that. Then another person. Then another. How long before there are millions, billions of dollars worth of pirated material out there? $60 doesn't hurt anyone. $60 a million times does.
It's like voting in America. You don't think your one vote counts, so you don't vote. Then thousands of people think the same, and the election is completely fucked one way or the other. That's exactly what I didn't say. I can't afford it anyway. The company is ever going to get exactly 0$ from me. If, I'm still able to pirate the game, then sure as hell I'm going to. And no, that still doesn't make it 60$ lost for the company. I'll quote wikipedia because it says it better then I can. 'The tragedy of the commons is a dilemma arising from the situation in which multiple individuals, acting independently and rationally consulting their own self-interest, will ultimately deplete a shared limited resource, even when it is clear that it is not in anyone's long-term interest for this to happen.' It is very prevalent in the environmental world as for the longest time businesses damaged the environment by dumping waste. It made all the sense in the world individually to do so as it would only increase costs to dispose of it in a healthier way. But that's not sustainable as when the environment becomes degraded the cost of doing business becomes greater then if you properly disposed of waste in the first place. In this case, the very things pirates are supposedly fighting against(crappy games, draconian DRM, cookie-cutter formula) is caused by pirates. 15 years ago before pirating was so wide-spread, the most you had to deal with was a simple CD key. The increase in pirating caused an increase in DRM as well as companies creating games that maximize profit. You think you really aren't hurting anything since you wouldn't buy it anyways, but in fact you're the reason companies act like they do now.
Well, developers screwd with people before piracy became what it is today. So saying that it's piracys fault that we have DRM is only half true. It's childish but, developers started it all.
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Norway28804 Posts
On December 01 2011 08:15 Brutefidget wrote:
Ideas like "The industry does fine without me buying games" and "If games weren't so overpriced then I would buy them" are poison to the gaming industry. If everyone started acting like this, we'd all have no games. I've made this exact same point like 4 times and I have yet to see anyone refute it. Please, piracy advocates, explain how if everyone pirates that there would still be a gaming industry.
the point is that it isn't a point, because not everyone pirates. people buy stuff if they can afford it and if what they purchase is better than what they pirate. many can afford it, and BECAUSE of piracy, game distributors have finally managed to provide an equally good service as pirates do.
this thread is full of horrible analogies, so allow me to make some more. basically, many things are illegal in society. in norway, it's illegal to urinate in public. generally, it's seen as a good thing, that not everyone urinates in public, but it is also preferable if people are occasionally able to urinate in public without being fined as opposed to pissing their pants. your idea that "if everyone pirated, we'd have to gaming industry", is akin to a statement such as "if everyone pissed in public, our cities would smell like piss", but both are just.. meaningless statements, because not everyone pirates, not everyone wants to pirate, just like not everyone urinates in public because not everyone wants to urinate in public. but sometimes, pirating is preferable to not playing a game, and urinating in public is preferable to pissing your pants. you can say "but you shouldn't have gone out drinking knowing that you might find yourself having to piss without a suitable toilet nearby", just as you can say "well maybe you should have done something else than play a game you weren't able to afford", the fact is, in neither scenario is society hurt in a significant manner by the actions of the lawbreakers. meanwhile, lawbreakers have improved life quality specifically because they broke the law, and for me, as an innocent bystander, I'm both happy that mr pissypants didn't accidentially stumble into me soaking me in his piss, just as I am happy that my peg-legged friend recommended me and gave me a copy of dune 2 19 years ago which kickstarted my RTS gaming experience and ensured that I would contribute to the gaming industry for the rest of my adult life.
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Personally I loved brood war but waited for iccup before i could play it online. I could always afford it and I remember just looking at the starcraft "battlechest" edition for years whenever Im in the local mall thinking "eh i should buy this because it has given me so much joy and this is the only real pc game i will ever play", still after 10 years - nothing. Yes, I am hurting Esports 
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EPT
