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United States5162 Posts
On December 01 2011 08:26 Interloper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 08:21 Myles wrote:On December 01 2011 08:07 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 08:00 Myles wrote:On December 01 2011 07:57 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 07:48 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 07:37 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 07:18 Yergidy wrote:On December 01 2011 07:15 Mammel wrote:"against computer pirates who put illegal copies of movies and television series on the Internet" "Wednesday for illegally downloading and distributing popular songs either from the Internet or from CDs on mobile phones." "They had alleged she shared 1,702 songs online in violation of their copyrights. " I think I said "unless his been sharing them." http://www.switched.com/2009/06/19/woman-fined-1-9-million-for-downloading-24-songs/A simple google search brought this up... I think you know how to use a browser. And you actually want to pay to those fuckers  ? No matter how much I have money, I wouldn't. But anyway, I don't know about US laws, but I do know that if you download anything here, you will get absolutely nothing for it. I don't actually even know if you could be sued for it here, and I couldn't care less. If it's illegal, then I'm a criminal, but as long as I don't feel like it, I will never pay for a game. I don't know if that'll change when I'm able to afford them without any problems, but right now I want to play, and I want to eat, and as long as it's possible to do both then I'm going to do it. Oh no, they punished her for doing something illegal? How cruel! While it's a dumb story, and the fine is exorbitant, it very clearly states in many places how much you'll be fined for illegally downloading stuff. You take a risk, sometimes you get fucked. Your mindset is immature. "I want I want I want gimme gimme gimme" makes you sound like a child who doesn't know the value of a dollar. "If it's illegal, then I'm a criminal, but as long as I don't feel like it, I will never pay for a game." How petulant. If you can't afford something, you don't get it. Just because this type of theft is easy to pull off doesn't make you tough, doesn't make you right, and just makes you a punk. Get over yourself. I just don't think it's bad to take something you aren't willing to buy as long as taking it hurts no one. This is such a flawed line of reasoning. It's the exact reason we have things such as the tragedy of the commons. "tragedy of the commons" Never heard of that term before. I assume you mean US bank crisis few years back + Greece in EU right now? I don't see the correlation between copying a game for yourself and taking too much loan, hiding your true deficit and not paying your dept... But I'm not saying this as an economist. That type of mentality is fine if it wasn't thousands (millions?) of people thinking the same thing for gaming, movies, and music.
"Oh, I'll only pirate a couple games, maybe $500 worth. $500 isn't that much to a big game company."
And then another person thinks that. Then another person. Then another. How long before there are millions, billions of dollars worth of pirated material out there? $60 doesn't hurt anyone. $60 a million times does.
It's like voting in America. You don't think your one vote counts, so you don't vote. Then thousands of people think the same, and the election is completely fucked one way or the other. That's exactly what I didn't say. I can't afford it anyway. The company is ever going to get exactly 0$ from me. If, I'm still able to pirate the game, then sure as hell I'm going to. And no, that still doesn't make it 60$ lost for the company. I'll quote wikipedia because it says it better then I can. 'The tragedy of the commons is a dilemma arising from the situation in which multiple individuals, acting independently and rationally consulting their own self-interest, will ultimately deplete a shared limited resource, even when it is clear that it is not in anyone's long-term interest for this to happen.' It is very prevalent in the environmental world as for the longest time businesses damaged the environment by dumping waste. It made all the sense in the world individually to do so as it would only increase costs to dispose of it in a healthier way. But that's not sustainable as when the environment becomes degraded the cost of doing business becomes greater then if you properly disposed of waste in the first place. In this case, the very things pirates are supposedly fighting against(crappy games, draconian DRM, cookie-cutter formula) is caused by pirates. 15 years ago before pirating was so wide-spread, the most you had to deal with was a simple CD key. The increase in pirating caused an increase in DRM as well as companies creating games that maximize profit. You think you really aren't hurting anything since you wouldn't buy it anyways, but in fact you're the reason companies act like they do now. Well, developers screwd with people before piracy became what it is today. So saying that it's piracys fault that we have DRM is only half true. It's childish but, developers started it all.
Explain. Developers have always made poor games, but I don't remember any nasty DRM coming around until after P2P became widespread.
edit: I suppose I should clarify, the pirates didn't cause crappy games and a cookie cutter format, they've always been there, but I do feel they've partially responsible for the increase in these games we've seen over the years.
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Why are you arguing if it is right or wrong? What's right or wrong anyways.
The point of the thread is how to combat piracy, i dont think any SP game have found a way to combat it properly.
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On December 01 2011 08:29 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 08:26 Interloper wrote:On December 01 2011 08:21 Myles wrote:On December 01 2011 08:07 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 08:00 Myles wrote:On December 01 2011 07:57 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 07:48 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 07:37 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 07:18 Yergidy wrote:On December 01 2011 07:15 Mammel wrote:
[quote]
"against computer pirates who put illegal copies of movies and television series on the Internet"
"Wednesday for illegally downloading and distributing popular songs either from the Internet or from CDs on mobile phones."
"They had alleged she shared 1,702 songs online in violation of their copyrights. "
I think I said "unless his been sharing them."
http://www.switched.com/2009/06/19/woman-fined-1-9-million-for-downloading-24-songs/A simple google search brought this up... I think you know how to use a browser. And you actually want to pay to those fuckers ? No matter how much I have money, I wouldn't. But anyway, I don't know about US laws, but I do know that if you download anything here, you will get absolutely nothing for it. I don't actually even know if you could be sued for it here, and I couldn't care less. If it's illegal, then I'm a criminal, but as long as I don't feel like it, I will never pay for a game. I don't know if that'll change when I'm able to afford them without any problems, but right now I want to play, and I want to eat, and as long as it's possible to do both then I'm going to do it. Oh no, they punished her for doing something illegal? How cruel! While it's a dumb story, and the fine is exorbitant, it very clearly states in many places how much you'll be fined for illegally downloading stuff. You take a risk, sometimes you get fucked. Your mindset is immature. "I want I want I want gimme gimme gimme" makes you sound like a child who doesn't know the value of a dollar. "If it's illegal, then I'm a criminal, but as long as I don't feel like it, I will never pay for a game." How petulant. If you can't afford something, you don't get it. Just because this type of theft is easy to pull off doesn't make you tough, doesn't make you right, and just makes you a punk. Get over yourself. I just don't think it's bad to take something you aren't willing to buy as long as taking it hurts no one. This is such a flawed line of reasoning. It's the exact reason we have things such as the tragedy of the commons. "tragedy of the commons" Never heard of that term before. I assume you mean US bank crisis few years back + Greece in EU right now? I don't see the correlation between copying a game for yourself and taking too much loan, hiding your true deficit and not paying your dept... But I'm not saying this as an economist. That type of mentality is fine if it wasn't thousands (millions?) of people thinking the same thing for gaming, movies, and music.
"Oh, I'll only pirate a couple games, maybe $500 worth. $500 isn't that much to a big game company."
And then another person thinks that. Then another person. Then another. How long before there are millions, billions of dollars worth of pirated material out there? $60 doesn't hurt anyone. $60 a million times does.
It's like voting in America. You don't think your one vote counts, so you don't vote. Then thousands of people think the same, and the election is completely fucked one way or the other. That's exactly what I didn't say. I can't afford it anyway. The company is ever going to get exactly 0$ from me. If, I'm still able to pirate the game, then sure as hell I'm going to. And no, that still doesn't make it 60$ lost for the company. I'll quote wikipedia because it says it better then I can. 'The tragedy of the commons is a dilemma arising from the situation in which multiple individuals, acting independently and rationally consulting their own self-interest, will ultimately deplete a shared limited resource, even when it is clear that it is not in anyone's long-term interest for this to happen.' It is very prevalent in the environmental world as for the longest time businesses damaged the environment by dumping waste. It made all the sense in the world individually to do so as it would only increase costs to dispose of it in a healthier way. But that's not sustainable as when the environment becomes degraded the cost of doing business becomes greater then if you properly disposed of waste in the first place. In this case, the very things pirates are supposedly fighting against(crappy games, draconian DRM, cookie-cutter formula) is caused by pirates. 15 years ago before pirating was so wide-spread, the most you had to deal with was a simple CD key. The increase in pirating caused an increase in DRM as well as companies creating games that maximize profit. You think you really aren't hurting anything since you wouldn't buy it anyways, but in fact you're the reason companies act like they do now. Well, developers screwd with people before piracy became what it is today. So saying that it's piracys fault that we have DRM is only half true. It's childish but, developers started it all. Explain. Developers have always made poor games, but I don't remember any nasty DRM coming around until after P2P became widespread.
Yeah, and thats my point. Developers made bad games that were more or less designed to "rip people off", there for, piracy! I don't have facts on it, but it has to be one of many reasons.
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Norway28709 Posts
On December 01 2011 08:29 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 08:26 Interloper wrote:On December 01 2011 08:21 Myles wrote:On December 01 2011 08:07 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 08:00 Myles wrote:On December 01 2011 07:57 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 07:48 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 07:37 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 07:18 Yergidy wrote:On December 01 2011 07:15 Mammel wrote:
[quote]
"against computer pirates who put illegal copies of movies and television series on the Internet"
"Wednesday for illegally downloading and distributing popular songs either from the Internet or from CDs on mobile phones."
"They had alleged she shared 1,702 songs online in violation of their copyrights. "
I think I said "unless his been sharing them."
http://www.switched.com/2009/06/19/woman-fined-1-9-million-for-downloading-24-songs/A simple google search brought this up... I think you know how to use a browser. And you actually want to pay to those fuckers ? No matter how much I have money, I wouldn't. But anyway, I don't know about US laws, but I do know that if you download anything here, you will get absolutely nothing for it. I don't actually even know if you could be sued for it here, and I couldn't care less. If it's illegal, then I'm a criminal, but as long as I don't feel like it, I will never pay for a game. I don't know if that'll change when I'm able to afford them without any problems, but right now I want to play, and I want to eat, and as long as it's possible to do both then I'm going to do it. Oh no, they punished her for doing something illegal? How cruel! While it's a dumb story, and the fine is exorbitant, it very clearly states in many places how much you'll be fined for illegally downloading stuff. You take a risk, sometimes you get fucked. Your mindset is immature. "I want I want I want gimme gimme gimme" makes you sound like a child who doesn't know the value of a dollar. "If it's illegal, then I'm a criminal, but as long as I don't feel like it, I will never pay for a game." How petulant. If you can't afford something, you don't get it. Just because this type of theft is easy to pull off doesn't make you tough, doesn't make you right, and just makes you a punk. Get over yourself. I just don't think it's bad to take something you aren't willing to buy as long as taking it hurts no one. This is such a flawed line of reasoning. It's the exact reason we have things such as the tragedy of the commons. "tragedy of the commons" Never heard of that term before. I assume you mean US bank crisis few years back + Greece in EU right now? I don't see the correlation between copying a game for yourself and taking too much loan, hiding your true deficit and not paying your dept... But I'm not saying this as an economist. That type of mentality is fine if it wasn't thousands (millions?) of people thinking the same thing for gaming, movies, and music.
"Oh, I'll only pirate a couple games, maybe $500 worth. $500 isn't that much to a big game company."
And then another person thinks that. Then another person. Then another. How long before there are millions, billions of dollars worth of pirated material out there? $60 doesn't hurt anyone. $60 a million times does.
It's like voting in America. You don't think your one vote counts, so you don't vote. Then thousands of people think the same, and the election is completely fucked one way or the other. That's exactly what I didn't say. I can't afford it anyway. The company is ever going to get exactly 0$ from me. If, I'm still able to pirate the game, then sure as hell I'm going to. And no, that still doesn't make it 60$ lost for the company. I'll quote wikipedia because it says it better then I can. 'The tragedy of the commons is a dilemma arising from the situation in which multiple individuals, acting independently and rationally consulting their own self-interest, will ultimately deplete a shared limited resource, even when it is clear that it is not in anyone's long-term interest for this to happen.' It is very prevalent in the environmental world as for the longest time businesses damaged the environment by dumping waste. It made all the sense in the world individually to do so as it would only increase costs to dispose of it in a healthier way. But that's not sustainable as when the environment becomes degraded the cost of doing business becomes greater then if you properly disposed of waste in the first place. In this case, the very things pirates are supposedly fighting against(crappy games, draconian DRM, cookie-cutter formula) is caused by pirates. 15 years ago before pirating was so wide-spread, the most you had to deal with was a simple CD key. The increase in pirating caused an increase in DRM as well as companies creating games that maximize profit. You think you really aren't hurting anything since you wouldn't buy it anyways, but in fact you're the reason companies act like they do now. Well, developers screwd with people before piracy became what it is today. So saying that it's piracys fault that we have DRM is only half true. It's childish but, developers started it all. Explain. Developers have always made poor games, but I don't remember any nasty DRM coming around until after P2P became widespread. edit: I suppose I should clarify, the pirates didn't cause crappy games and a cookie cutter format, they've always been there, but I do feel they've partially responsible for the increase in these games we've seen over the years.
I don't have stats, but I really don't think piracy amounts to a bigger percentage of games played vs games sold now than before.
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United States5162 Posts
On December 01 2011 08:39 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 08:29 Myles wrote:On December 01 2011 08:26 Interloper wrote:On December 01 2011 08:21 Myles wrote:On December 01 2011 08:07 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 08:00 Myles wrote:On December 01 2011 07:57 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 07:48 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 07:37 Mammel wrote:And you actually want to pay to those fuckers ? No matter how much I have money, I wouldn't. But anyway, I don't know about US laws, but I do know that if you download anything here, you will get absolutely nothing for it. I don't actually even know if you could be sued for it here, and I couldn't care less. If it's illegal, then I'm a criminal, but as long as I don't feel like it, I will never pay for a game. I don't know if that'll change when I'm able to afford them without any problems, but right now I want to play, and I want to eat, and as long as it's possible to do both then I'm going to do it. Oh no, they punished her for doing something illegal? How cruel! While it's a dumb story, and the fine is exorbitant, it very clearly states in many places how much you'll be fined for illegally downloading stuff. You take a risk, sometimes you get fucked. Your mindset is immature. "I want I want I want gimme gimme gimme" makes you sound like a child who doesn't know the value of a dollar. "If it's illegal, then I'm a criminal, but as long as I don't feel like it, I will never pay for a game." How petulant. If you can't afford something, you don't get it. Just because this type of theft is easy to pull off doesn't make you tough, doesn't make you right, and just makes you a punk. Get over yourself. I just don't think it's bad to take something you aren't willing to buy as long as taking it hurts no one. This is such a flawed line of reasoning. It's the exact reason we have things such as the tragedy of the commons. "tragedy of the commons" Never heard of that term before. I assume you mean US bank crisis few years back + Greece in EU right now? I don't see the correlation between copying a game for yourself and taking too much loan, hiding your true deficit and not paying your dept... But I'm not saying this as an economist. That type of mentality is fine if it wasn't thousands (millions?) of people thinking the same thing for gaming, movies, and music.
"Oh, I'll only pirate a couple games, maybe $500 worth. $500 isn't that much to a big game company."
And then another person thinks that. Then another person. Then another. How long before there are millions, billions of dollars worth of pirated material out there? $60 doesn't hurt anyone. $60 a million times does.
It's like voting in America. You don't think your one vote counts, so you don't vote. Then thousands of people think the same, and the election is completely fucked one way or the other. That's exactly what I didn't say. I can't afford it anyway. The company is ever going to get exactly 0$ from me. If, I'm still able to pirate the game, then sure as hell I'm going to. And no, that still doesn't make it 60$ lost for the company. I'll quote wikipedia because it says it better then I can. 'The tragedy of the commons is a dilemma arising from the situation in which multiple individuals, acting independently and rationally consulting their own self-interest, will ultimately deplete a shared limited resource, even when it is clear that it is not in anyone's long-term interest for this to happen.' It is very prevalent in the environmental world as for the longest time businesses damaged the environment by dumping waste. It made all the sense in the world individually to do so as it would only increase costs to dispose of it in a healthier way. But that's not sustainable as when the environment becomes degraded the cost of doing business becomes greater then if you properly disposed of waste in the first place. In this case, the very things pirates are supposedly fighting against(crappy games, draconian DRM, cookie-cutter formula) is caused by pirates. 15 years ago before pirating was so wide-spread, the most you had to deal with was a simple CD key. The increase in pirating caused an increase in DRM as well as companies creating games that maximize profit. You think you really aren't hurting anything since you wouldn't buy it anyways, but in fact you're the reason companies act like they do now. Well, developers screwd with people before piracy became what it is today. So saying that it's piracys fault that we have DRM is only half true. It's childish but, developers started it all. Explain. Developers have always made poor games, but I don't remember any nasty DRM coming around until after P2P became widespread. edit: I suppose I should clarify, the pirates didn't cause crappy games and a cookie cutter format, they've always been there, but I do feel they've partially responsible for the increase in these games we've seen over the years. I don't have stats, but I really don't think piracy amounts to a bigger percentage of games played vs games sold now than before.
I suppose it's valid to hold the hypothesis that the increase of piracy has been accompanied by an increase in overall game popularity which has resulted in more sales despite the piracy. But I'll also say that they ease of obtaining pirate copies is so much easier now that it's just as valid to say it's far more prevalent then in the past.
Until we see some data it's impossible to say for sure either way.
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On December 01 2011 08:42 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 08:39 Liquid`Drone wrote:On December 01 2011 08:29 Myles wrote:On December 01 2011 08:26 Interloper wrote:On December 01 2011 08:21 Myles wrote:On December 01 2011 08:07 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 08:00 Myles wrote:On December 01 2011 07:57 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 07:48 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 07:37 Mammel wrote:[quote] And you actually want to pay to those fuckers ? No matter how much I have money, I wouldn't. But anyway, I don't know about US laws, but I do know that if you download anything here, you will get absolutely nothing for it. I don't actually even know if you could be sued for it here, and I couldn't care less. If it's illegal, then I'm a criminal, but as long as I don't feel like it, I will never pay for a game. I don't know if that'll change when I'm able to afford them without any problems, but right now I want to play, and I want to eat, and as long as it's possible to do both then I'm going to do it. Oh no, they punished her for doing something illegal? How cruel! While it's a dumb story, and the fine is exorbitant, it very clearly states in many places how much you'll be fined for illegally downloading stuff. You take a risk, sometimes you get fucked. Your mindset is immature. "I want I want I want gimme gimme gimme" makes you sound like a child who doesn't know the value of a dollar. "If it's illegal, then I'm a criminal, but as long as I don't feel like it, I will never pay for a game." How petulant. If you can't afford something, you don't get it. Just because this type of theft is easy to pull off doesn't make you tough, doesn't make you right, and just makes you a punk. Get over yourself. I just don't think it's bad to take something you aren't willing to buy as long as taking it hurts no one. This is such a flawed line of reasoning. It's the exact reason we have things such as the tragedy of the commons. "tragedy of the commons" Never heard of that term before. I assume you mean US bank crisis few years back + Greece in EU right now? I don't see the correlation between copying a game for yourself and taking too much loan, hiding your true deficit and not paying your dept... But I'm not saying this as an economist. That type of mentality is fine if it wasn't thousands (millions?) of people thinking the same thing for gaming, movies, and music.
"Oh, I'll only pirate a couple games, maybe $500 worth. $500 isn't that much to a big game company."
And then another person thinks that. Then another person. Then another. How long before there are millions, billions of dollars worth of pirated material out there? $60 doesn't hurt anyone. $60 a million times does.
It's like voting in America. You don't think your one vote counts, so you don't vote. Then thousands of people think the same, and the election is completely fucked one way or the other. That's exactly what I didn't say. I can't afford it anyway. The company is ever going to get exactly 0$ from me. If, I'm still able to pirate the game, then sure as hell I'm going to. And no, that still doesn't make it 60$ lost for the company. I'll quote wikipedia because it says it better then I can. 'The tragedy of the commons is a dilemma arising from the situation in which multiple individuals, acting independently and rationally consulting their own self-interest, will ultimately deplete a shared limited resource, even when it is clear that it is not in anyone's long-term interest for this to happen.' It is very prevalent in the environmental world as for the longest time businesses damaged the environment by dumping waste. It made all the sense in the world individually to do so as it would only increase costs to dispose of it in a healthier way. But that's not sustainable as when the environment becomes degraded the cost of doing business becomes greater then if you properly disposed of waste in the first place. In this case, the very things pirates are supposedly fighting against(crappy games, draconian DRM, cookie-cutter formula) is caused by pirates. 15 years ago before pirating was so wide-spread, the most you had to deal with was a simple CD key. The increase in pirating caused an increase in DRM as well as companies creating games that maximize profit. You think you really aren't hurting anything since you wouldn't buy it anyways, but in fact you're the reason companies act like they do now. Well, developers screwd with people before piracy became what it is today. So saying that it's piracys fault that we have DRM is only half true. It's childish but, developers started it all. Explain. Developers have always made poor games, but I don't remember any nasty DRM coming around until after P2P became widespread. edit: I suppose I should clarify, the pirates didn't cause crappy games and a cookie cutter format, they've always been there, but I do feel they've partially responsible for the increase in these games we've seen over the years. I don't have stats, but I really don't think piracy amounts to a bigger percentage of games played vs games sold now than before. I suppose it's valid to hold the hypothesis that the increase of piracy has been accompanied by an increase in overall game popularity which has resulted in more sales despite the piracy. But I'll also say that they ease of obtaining pirate copies is so much easier now that it's just as valid to say it's far more prevalent then in the past. Until we see some data it's impossible to say for sure either way.
I don't think it's possible to get data of the games you copied from your friends or of illegal copies you bought for basically free. I remember copying most of the games from my friends when I was a kid and buying tons of pirate copies from Estonia when we went there every now and then. How many I (or my parents) bought legally.. maybe 1/10?
The amount of games was also much smaller, but the lack of high speed internet didn't really do much.
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On December 01 2011 08:28 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 08:15 Brutefidget wrote:
Ideas like "The industry does fine without me buying games" and "If games weren't so overpriced then I would buy them" are poison to the gaming industry. If everyone started acting like this, we'd all have no games. I've made this exact same point like 4 times and I have yet to see anyone refute it. Please, piracy advocates, explain how if everyone pirates that there would still be a gaming industry.
the point is that it isn't a point, because not everyone pirates. people buy stuff if they can afford it and if what they purchase is better than what they pirate. many can afford it, and BECAUSE of piracy, game distributors have finally managed to provide an equally good service as pirates do. this thread is full of horrible analogies, so allow me to make some more. basically, many things are illegal in society. in norway, it's illegal to urinate in public. generally, it's seen as a good thing, that not everyone urinates in public, but it is also preferable if people are occasionally able to urinate in public without being fined as opposed to pissing their pants. your idea that "if everyone pirated, we'd have to gaming industry", is akin to a statement such as "if everyone pissed in public, our cities would smell like piss", but both are just.. meaningless statements, because not everyone pirates, not everyone wants to pirate, just like not everyone urinates in public because not everyone wants to urinate in public. but sometimes, pirating is preferable to not playing a game, and urinating in public is preferable to pissing your pants. you can say "but you shouldn't have gone out drinking knowing that you might find yourself having to piss without a suitable toilet nearby", just as you can say "well maybe you should have done something else than play a game you weren't able to afford", the fact is, in neither scenario is society hurt in a significant manner by the actions of the lawbreakers. meanwhile, lawbreakers have improved life quality specifically because they broke the law, and for me, as an innocent bystander, I'm both happy that mr pissypants didn't accidentially stumble into me soaking me in his piss, just as I am happy that my peg-legged friend recommended me and gave me a copy of dune 2 19 years ago which kickstarted my RTS gaming experience and ensured that I would contribute to the gaming industry for the rest of my adult life.
Many people in this topic already have admitted to not buying stuff if they can afford it. If you just download a game, you save 60 dollars towards a new car! Why ever buy a game, right guys?
You can't say it's not a point. You can say it's not reality, but that doesn't make it any less of a point. That is the exact reason why urinating in public is illegal and should be illegal, and piracy should be no different. Society would be much worse off if everyone adopted that behavior. It's very selfish to think that your actions, which are detrimental, are ok because you're only one person. To me, the person who buys games, if you don't pay for it of course I'd prefer for you to not play it. It's the same as me thinking that I'd much rather have people acting responsibly and finding a toilet rather than peeing all over my city.
"Not everyone wants to pirate" - Untrue. Everyone would prefer to have something free, but those who don't want to pirate are those who understand that it hurts the gaming industry. So while not everyone wants to "pirate," everyone wants the same thing the pirates take.
"In neither scenario is society hurt in a significant manner by the actions of the lawbreakers." - I fail to see how society benefits from public urination ever, but I'm just going to abandon your analogy for that point. Maybe right now, with the current ratio of lawbreakers to paying customers, the actions are not so detrimental. However, if more people decide to become lawbreakers, it will destroy the industry. You can't honestly think it's ok to break the law just because it's only a few people doing it?
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On December 01 2011 08:55 Brutefidget wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 08:28 Liquid`Drone wrote:On December 01 2011 08:15 Brutefidget wrote:
Ideas like "The industry does fine without me buying games" and "If games weren't so overpriced then I would buy them" are poison to the gaming industry. If everyone started acting like this, we'd all have no games. I've made this exact same point like 4 times and I have yet to see anyone refute it. Please, piracy advocates, explain how if everyone pirates that there would still be a gaming industry.
the point is that it isn't a point, because not everyone pirates. people buy stuff if they can afford it and if what they purchase is better than what they pirate. many can afford it, and BECAUSE of piracy, game distributors have finally managed to provide an equally good service as pirates do. this thread is full of horrible analogies, so allow me to make some more. basically, many things are illegal in society. in norway, it's illegal to urinate in public. generally, it's seen as a good thing, that not everyone urinates in public, but it is also preferable if people are occasionally able to urinate in public without being fined as opposed to pissing their pants. your idea that "if everyone pirated, we'd have to gaming industry", is akin to a statement such as "if everyone pissed in public, our cities would smell like piss", but both are just.. meaningless statements, because not everyone pirates, not everyone wants to pirate, just like not everyone urinates in public because not everyone wants to urinate in public. but sometimes, pirating is preferable to not playing a game, and urinating in public is preferable to pissing your pants. you can say "but you shouldn't have gone out drinking knowing that you might find yourself having to piss without a suitable toilet nearby", just as you can say "well maybe you should have done something else than play a game you weren't able to afford", the fact is, in neither scenario is society hurt in a significant manner by the actions of the lawbreakers. meanwhile, lawbreakers have improved life quality specifically because they broke the law, and for me, as an innocent bystander, I'm both happy that mr pissypants didn't accidentially stumble into me soaking me in his piss, just as I am happy that my peg-legged friend recommended me and gave me a copy of dune 2 19 years ago which kickstarted my RTS gaming experience and ensured that I would contribute to the gaming industry for the rest of my adult life. Many people in this topic already have admitted to not buying stuff if they can afford it. If you just download a game, you save 60 dollars towards a new car! Why ever buy a game, right guys? You can't say it's not a point. You can say it's not reality, but that doesn't make it any less of a point. That is the exact reason why urinating in public is illegal and should be illegal, and piracy should be no different. Society would be much worse off if everyone adopted that behavior. It's very selfish to think that your actions, which are detrimental, are ok because you're only one person. To me, the person who buys games, if you don't pay for it of course I'd prefer for you to not play it. It's the same as me thinking that I'd much rather have people acting responsibly and finding a toilet rather than peeing all over my city. "Not everyone wants to pirate" - Untrue. Everyone would prefer to have something free, but those who don't want to pirate are those who understand that it hurts the gaming industry. So while not everyone wants to "pirate," everyone wants the same thing the pirates take. "In neither scenario is society hurt in a significant manner by the actions of the lawbreakers." - I fail to see how society benefits from public urination ever, but I'm just going to abandon your analogy for that point. Maybe right now, with the current ratio of lawbreakers to paying customers, the actions are not so detrimental. However, if more people decide to become lawbreakers, it will destroy the industry. You can't honestly think it's ok to break the law just because it's only a few people doing it?
I don't want to pirate. But developers have made me do it due to thier insane DRMs, crappy console ports and close to illegal hype campaigns surrounding certain games. When i say illegal i mean it as in false advertising. Something like Ubisoft dose from time to time. Show stuff off saying it will be in the game, but come release said feature is nowhere to be found.
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On December 01 2011 09:01 Interloper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 08:55 Brutefidget wrote:On December 01 2011 08:28 Liquid`Drone wrote:On December 01 2011 08:15 Brutefidget wrote:
Ideas like "The industry does fine without me buying games" and "If games weren't so overpriced then I would buy them" are poison to the gaming industry. If everyone started acting like this, we'd all have no games. I've made this exact same point like 4 times and I have yet to see anyone refute it. Please, piracy advocates, explain how if everyone pirates that there would still be a gaming industry.
the point is that it isn't a point, because not everyone pirates. people buy stuff if they can afford it and if what they purchase is better than what they pirate. many can afford it, and BECAUSE of piracy, game distributors have finally managed to provide an equally good service as pirates do. this thread is full of horrible analogies, so allow me to make some more. basically, many things are illegal in society. in norway, it's illegal to urinate in public. generally, it's seen as a good thing, that not everyone urinates in public, but it is also preferable if people are occasionally able to urinate in public without being fined as opposed to pissing their pants. your idea that "if everyone pirated, we'd have to gaming industry", is akin to a statement such as "if everyone pissed in public, our cities would smell like piss", but both are just.. meaningless statements, because not everyone pirates, not everyone wants to pirate, just like not everyone urinates in public because not everyone wants to urinate in public. but sometimes, pirating is preferable to not playing a game, and urinating in public is preferable to pissing your pants. you can say "but you shouldn't have gone out drinking knowing that you might find yourself having to piss without a suitable toilet nearby", just as you can say "well maybe you should have done something else than play a game you weren't able to afford", the fact is, in neither scenario is society hurt in a significant manner by the actions of the lawbreakers. meanwhile, lawbreakers have improved life quality specifically because they broke the law, and for me, as an innocent bystander, I'm both happy that mr pissypants didn't accidentially stumble into me soaking me in his piss, just as I am happy that my peg-legged friend recommended me and gave me a copy of dune 2 19 years ago which kickstarted my RTS gaming experience and ensured that I would contribute to the gaming industry for the rest of my adult life. Many people in this topic already have admitted to not buying stuff if they can afford it. If you just download a game, you save 60 dollars towards a new car! Why ever buy a game, right guys? You can't say it's not a point. You can say it's not reality, but that doesn't make it any less of a point. That is the exact reason why urinating in public is illegal and should be illegal, and piracy should be no different. Society would be much worse off if everyone adopted that behavior. It's very selfish to think that your actions, which are detrimental, are ok because you're only one person. To me, the person who buys games, if you don't pay for it of course I'd prefer for you to not play it. It's the same as me thinking that I'd much rather have people acting responsibly and finding a toilet rather than peeing all over my city. "Not everyone wants to pirate" - Untrue. Everyone would prefer to have something free, but those who don't want to pirate are those who understand that it hurts the gaming industry. So while not everyone wants to "pirate," everyone wants the same thing the pirates take. "In neither scenario is society hurt in a significant manner by the actions of the lawbreakers." - I fail to see how society benefits from public urination ever, but I'm just going to abandon your analogy for that point. Maybe right now, with the current ratio of lawbreakers to paying customers, the actions are not so detrimental. However, if more people decide to become lawbreakers, it will destroy the industry. You can't honestly think it's ok to break the law just because it's only a few people doing it? I don't want to pirate. But developers have made me do it due to thier insane DRMs, crappy console ports and close to illegal hype campaigns surrounding certain games. When i say illegal i mean it as in false advertising. Something like Ubisoft dose from time to time. Show stuff off saying it will be in the game, but come release said feature is nowhere to be found.
I love the idea that, because you wont purchase a product, stealing it is acceptable. Believe it or not, just by existing you're not entitled to own/play every game that comes out.
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On December 01 2011 09:06 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 09:01 Interloper wrote:On December 01 2011 08:55 Brutefidget wrote:On December 01 2011 08:28 Liquid`Drone wrote:On December 01 2011 08:15 Brutefidget wrote:
Ideas like "The industry does fine without me buying games" and "If games weren't so overpriced then I would buy them" are poison to the gaming industry. If everyone started acting like this, we'd all have no games. I've made this exact same point like 4 times and I have yet to see anyone refute it. Please, piracy advocates, explain how if everyone pirates that there would still be a gaming industry.
the point is that it isn't a point, because not everyone pirates. people buy stuff if they can afford it and if what they purchase is better than what they pirate. many can afford it, and BECAUSE of piracy, game distributors have finally managed to provide an equally good service as pirates do. this thread is full of horrible analogies, so allow me to make some more. basically, many things are illegal in society. in norway, it's illegal to urinate in public. generally, it's seen as a good thing, that not everyone urinates in public, but it is also preferable if people are occasionally able to urinate in public without being fined as opposed to pissing their pants. your idea that "if everyone pirated, we'd have to gaming industry", is akin to a statement such as "if everyone pissed in public, our cities would smell like piss", but both are just.. meaningless statements, because not everyone pirates, not everyone wants to pirate, just like not everyone urinates in public because not everyone wants to urinate in public. but sometimes, pirating is preferable to not playing a game, and urinating in public is preferable to pissing your pants. you can say "but you shouldn't have gone out drinking knowing that you might find yourself having to piss without a suitable toilet nearby", just as you can say "well maybe you should have done something else than play a game you weren't able to afford", the fact is, in neither scenario is society hurt in a significant manner by the actions of the lawbreakers. meanwhile, lawbreakers have improved life quality specifically because they broke the law, and for me, as an innocent bystander, I'm both happy that mr pissypants didn't accidentially stumble into me soaking me in his piss, just as I am happy that my peg-legged friend recommended me and gave me a copy of dune 2 19 years ago which kickstarted my RTS gaming experience and ensured that I would contribute to the gaming industry for the rest of my adult life. Many people in this topic already have admitted to not buying stuff if they can afford it. If you just download a game, you save 60 dollars towards a new car! Why ever buy a game, right guys? You can't say it's not a point. You can say it's not reality, but that doesn't make it any less of a point. That is the exact reason why urinating in public is illegal and should be illegal, and piracy should be no different. Society would be much worse off if everyone adopted that behavior. It's very selfish to think that your actions, which are detrimental, are ok because you're only one person. To me, the person who buys games, if you don't pay for it of course I'd prefer for you to not play it. It's the same as me thinking that I'd much rather have people acting responsibly and finding a toilet rather than peeing all over my city. "Not everyone wants to pirate" - Untrue. Everyone would prefer to have something free, but those who don't want to pirate are those who understand that it hurts the gaming industry. So while not everyone wants to "pirate," everyone wants the same thing the pirates take. "In neither scenario is society hurt in a significant manner by the actions of the lawbreakers." - I fail to see how society benefits from public urination ever, but I'm just going to abandon your analogy for that point. Maybe right now, with the current ratio of lawbreakers to paying customers, the actions are not so detrimental. However, if more people decide to become lawbreakers, it will destroy the industry. You can't honestly think it's ok to break the law just because it's only a few people doing it? I don't want to pirate. But developers have made me do it due to thier insane DRMs, crappy console ports and close to illegal hype campaigns surrounding certain games. When i say illegal i mean it as in false advertising. Something like Ubisoft dose from time to time. Show stuff off saying it will be in the game, but come release said feature is nowhere to be found. I love the idea that, because you wont purchase a product, stealing it is acceptable. Believe it or not, just by existing you're not entitled to own/play every game that comes out.
I WANT too purchase products and support developers. But when they make it impossible to make a clear decision, why not pirate, see if its good and then buy it? I am a potential customer like everyone else but i am trying to make a informed decision.
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Norway28709 Posts
my point is that laws should not be absolute. while laws are generally formed from a consensus of morality or whatever, morality is not completely derived from law. the point is, YES, if everyone adopts a certain type of behavior, then society crumbles. but if you are in a particular circumstance (say, you're speeding because your pregnant wife is about to give birth, or you urinate in some alley because you're about to piss your pants, or you download a game illegaly because you're 14 years old and you wouldn't be able to buy it anyway but want to play it), then society is not negatively affected in a significant manner by you breaking the law - in fact it might be affected in a positive manner (probably more safe to drive while speeding slightly than while wife is giving birth, it's better if people urinate publicly than piss their pants, and companys might make more money from exposure gotten through piracy than through a 14 year old not buying their game. ).
basically it's like, if you're a 24 year old male and you just went out drinking last night and spent $120 on alcohol, and then the day after you wanna play a game and then instead of paying $15 on steam for bastion, you pirate it, and then you play it for 9 hours and you enjoyed it a lot, but then you still don't buy it, then I would also regard that as condemnable behavior. but not all piracy is bad by default..
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On December 01 2011 09:09 Interloper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 09:06 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On December 01 2011 09:01 Interloper wrote:On December 01 2011 08:55 Brutefidget wrote:On December 01 2011 08:28 Liquid`Drone wrote:On December 01 2011 08:15 Brutefidget wrote:
Ideas like "The industry does fine without me buying games" and "If games weren't so overpriced then I would buy them" are poison to the gaming industry. If everyone started acting like this, we'd all have no games. I've made this exact same point like 4 times and I have yet to see anyone refute it. Please, piracy advocates, explain how if everyone pirates that there would still be a gaming industry.
the point is that it isn't a point, because not everyone pirates. people buy stuff if they can afford it and if what they purchase is better than what they pirate. many can afford it, and BECAUSE of piracy, game distributors have finally managed to provide an equally good service as pirates do. this thread is full of horrible analogies, so allow me to make some more. basically, many things are illegal in society. in norway, it's illegal to urinate in public. generally, it's seen as a good thing, that not everyone urinates in public, but it is also preferable if people are occasionally able to urinate in public without being fined as opposed to pissing their pants. your idea that "if everyone pirated, we'd have to gaming industry", is akin to a statement such as "if everyone pissed in public, our cities would smell like piss", but both are just.. meaningless statements, because not everyone pirates, not everyone wants to pirate, just like not everyone urinates in public because not everyone wants to urinate in public. but sometimes, pirating is preferable to not playing a game, and urinating in public is preferable to pissing your pants. you can say "but you shouldn't have gone out drinking knowing that you might find yourself having to piss without a suitable toilet nearby", just as you can say "well maybe you should have done something else than play a game you weren't able to afford", the fact is, in neither scenario is society hurt in a significant manner by the actions of the lawbreakers. meanwhile, lawbreakers have improved life quality specifically because they broke the law, and for me, as an innocent bystander, I'm both happy that mr pissypants didn't accidentially stumble into me soaking me in his piss, just as I am happy that my peg-legged friend recommended me and gave me a copy of dune 2 19 years ago which kickstarted my RTS gaming experience and ensured that I would contribute to the gaming industry for the rest of my adult life. Many people in this topic already have admitted to not buying stuff if they can afford it. If you just download a game, you save 60 dollars towards a new car! Why ever buy a game, right guys? You can't say it's not a point. You can say it's not reality, but that doesn't make it any less of a point. That is the exact reason why urinating in public is illegal and should be illegal, and piracy should be no different. Society would be much worse off if everyone adopted that behavior. It's very selfish to think that your actions, which are detrimental, are ok because you're only one person. To me, the person who buys games, if you don't pay for it of course I'd prefer for you to not play it. It's the same as me thinking that I'd much rather have people acting responsibly and finding a toilet rather than peeing all over my city. "Not everyone wants to pirate" - Untrue. Everyone would prefer to have something free, but those who don't want to pirate are those who understand that it hurts the gaming industry. So while not everyone wants to "pirate," everyone wants the same thing the pirates take. "In neither scenario is society hurt in a significant manner by the actions of the lawbreakers." - I fail to see how society benefits from public urination ever, but I'm just going to abandon your analogy for that point. Maybe right now, with the current ratio of lawbreakers to paying customers, the actions are not so detrimental. However, if more people decide to become lawbreakers, it will destroy the industry. You can't honestly think it's ok to break the law just because it's only a few people doing it? I don't want to pirate. But developers have made me do it due to thier insane DRMs, crappy console ports and close to illegal hype campaigns surrounding certain games. When i say illegal i mean it as in false advertising. Something like Ubisoft dose from time to time. Show stuff off saying it will be in the game, but come release said feature is nowhere to be found. I love the idea that, because you wont purchase a product, stealing it is acceptable. Believe it or not, just by existing you're not entitled to own/play every game that comes out. I WANT too purchase products and support developers. But when they make it impossible to make a clear decission, why not pirate, see if its good and then buy it? I am a potential customer like everyone else but i am trying to make a informed decision.
As has been discussed numerous times, downloading to try and then buying is fine to an extent. However, despite what people say, that is a vocal minority of pirates. The more likely occurrence is when they download a game, like or dislike, continue to play it. That means the person is either hypocritical for playing a bad game they wont pay or or not paying for a good game they should.
There has been a lot of discussion and a lot of names, so it is easy to get lost as to who said what when it comes to specifics.
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On December 01 2011 09:01 Interloper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 08:55 Brutefidget wrote:On December 01 2011 08:28 Liquid`Drone wrote:On December 01 2011 08:15 Brutefidget wrote:
Ideas like "The industry does fine without me buying games" and "If games weren't so overpriced then I would buy them" are poison to the gaming industry. If everyone started acting like this, we'd all have no games. I've made this exact same point like 4 times and I have yet to see anyone refute it. Please, piracy advocates, explain how if everyone pirates that there would still be a gaming industry.
the point is that it isn't a point, because not everyone pirates. people buy stuff if they can afford it and if what they purchase is better than what they pirate. many can afford it, and BECAUSE of piracy, game distributors have finally managed to provide an equally good service as pirates do. this thread is full of horrible analogies, so allow me to make some more. basically, many things are illegal in society. in norway, it's illegal to urinate in public. generally, it's seen as a good thing, that not everyone urinates in public, but it is also preferable if people are occasionally able to urinate in public without being fined as opposed to pissing their pants. your idea that "if everyone pirated, we'd have to gaming industry", is akin to a statement such as "if everyone pissed in public, our cities would smell like piss", but both are just.. meaningless statements, because not everyone pirates, not everyone wants to pirate, just like not everyone urinates in public because not everyone wants to urinate in public. but sometimes, pirating is preferable to not playing a game, and urinating in public is preferable to pissing your pants. you can say "but you shouldn't have gone out drinking knowing that you might find yourself having to piss without a suitable toilet nearby", just as you can say "well maybe you should have done something else than play a game you weren't able to afford", the fact is, in neither scenario is society hurt in a significant manner by the actions of the lawbreakers. meanwhile, lawbreakers have improved life quality specifically because they broke the law, and for me, as an innocent bystander, I'm both happy that mr pissypants didn't accidentially stumble into me soaking me in his piss, just as I am happy that my peg-legged friend recommended me and gave me a copy of dune 2 19 years ago which kickstarted my RTS gaming experience and ensured that I would contribute to the gaming industry for the rest of my adult life. Many people in this topic already have admitted to not buying stuff if they can afford it. If you just download a game, you save 60 dollars towards a new car! Why ever buy a game, right guys? You can't say it's not a point. You can say it's not reality, but that doesn't make it any less of a point. That is the exact reason why urinating in public is illegal and should be illegal, and piracy should be no different. Society would be much worse off if everyone adopted that behavior. It's very selfish to think that your actions, which are detrimental, are ok because you're only one person. To me, the person who buys games, if you don't pay for it of course I'd prefer for you to not play it. It's the same as me thinking that I'd much rather have people acting responsibly and finding a toilet rather than peeing all over my city. "Not everyone wants to pirate" - Untrue. Everyone would prefer to have something free, but those who don't want to pirate are those who understand that it hurts the gaming industry. So while not everyone wants to "pirate," everyone wants the same thing the pirates take. "In neither scenario is society hurt in a significant manner by the actions of the lawbreakers." - I fail to see how society benefits from public urination ever, but I'm just going to abandon your analogy for that point. Maybe right now, with the current ratio of lawbreakers to paying customers, the actions are not so detrimental. However, if more people decide to become lawbreakers, it will destroy the industry. You can't honestly think it's ok to break the law just because it's only a few people doing it? I don't want to pirate. But developers have made me do it due to thier insane DRMs, crappy console ports and close to illegal hype campaigns surrounding certain games. When i say illegal i mean it as in false advertising. Something like Ubisoft dose from time to time. Show stuff off saying it will be in the game, but come release said feature is nowhere to be found.
If you don't like DRM, crappy console ports, and overhyped games then...don't buy them! If you don't like it, don't play it! Shockingly simple really. It's pathetic how you attempt to justify it, just be a man and admit you're being immoral and get on with your pirating. Since this thread loves half-baked analogies...I don't want to cheat on my wife, but she nags me all the time and makes me do my own laundry so really she made me do it. Leaving her is not an option because there are some things I like about her and would miss out on. But seriously it's all her fault.
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On December 01 2011 09:13 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 09:09 Interloper wrote:On December 01 2011 09:06 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On December 01 2011 09:01 Interloper wrote:On December 01 2011 08:55 Brutefidget wrote:On December 01 2011 08:28 Liquid`Drone wrote:On December 01 2011 08:15 Brutefidget wrote:
Ideas like "The industry does fine without me buying games" and "If games weren't so overpriced then I would buy them" are poison to the gaming industry. If everyone started acting like this, we'd all have no games. I've made this exact same point like 4 times and I have yet to see anyone refute it. Please, piracy advocates, explain how if everyone pirates that there would still be a gaming industry.
the point is that it isn't a point, because not everyone pirates. people buy stuff if they can afford it and if what they purchase is better than what they pirate. many can afford it, and BECAUSE of piracy, game distributors have finally managed to provide an equally good service as pirates do. this thread is full of horrible analogies, so allow me to make some more. basically, many things are illegal in society. in norway, it's illegal to urinate in public. generally, it's seen as a good thing, that not everyone urinates in public, but it is also preferable if people are occasionally able to urinate in public without being fined as opposed to pissing their pants. your idea that "if everyone pirated, we'd have to gaming industry", is akin to a statement such as "if everyone pissed in public, our cities would smell like piss", but both are just.. meaningless statements, because not everyone pirates, not everyone wants to pirate, just like not everyone urinates in public because not everyone wants to urinate in public. but sometimes, pirating is preferable to not playing a game, and urinating in public is preferable to pissing your pants. you can say "but you shouldn't have gone out drinking knowing that you might find yourself having to piss without a suitable toilet nearby", just as you can say "well maybe you should have done something else than play a game you weren't able to afford", the fact is, in neither scenario is society hurt in a significant manner by the actions of the lawbreakers. meanwhile, lawbreakers have improved life quality specifically because they broke the law, and for me, as an innocent bystander, I'm both happy that mr pissypants didn't accidentially stumble into me soaking me in his piss, just as I am happy that my peg-legged friend recommended me and gave me a copy of dune 2 19 years ago which kickstarted my RTS gaming experience and ensured that I would contribute to the gaming industry for the rest of my adult life. Many people in this topic already have admitted to not buying stuff if they can afford it. If you just download a game, you save 60 dollars towards a new car! Why ever buy a game, right guys? You can't say it's not a point. You can say it's not reality, but that doesn't make it any less of a point. That is the exact reason why urinating in public is illegal and should be illegal, and piracy should be no different. Society would be much worse off if everyone adopted that behavior. It's very selfish to think that your actions, which are detrimental, are ok because you're only one person. To me, the person who buys games, if you don't pay for it of course I'd prefer for you to not play it. It's the same as me thinking that I'd much rather have people acting responsibly and finding a toilet rather than peeing all over my city. "Not everyone wants to pirate" - Untrue. Everyone would prefer to have something free, but those who don't want to pirate are those who understand that it hurts the gaming industry. So while not everyone wants to "pirate," everyone wants the same thing the pirates take. "In neither scenario is society hurt in a significant manner by the actions of the lawbreakers." - I fail to see how society benefits from public urination ever, but I'm just going to abandon your analogy for that point. Maybe right now, with the current ratio of lawbreakers to paying customers, the actions are not so detrimental. However, if more people decide to become lawbreakers, it will destroy the industry. You can't honestly think it's ok to break the law just because it's only a few people doing it? I don't want to pirate. But developers have made me do it due to thier insane DRMs, crappy console ports and close to illegal hype campaigns surrounding certain games. When i say illegal i mean it as in false advertising. Something like Ubisoft dose from time to time. Show stuff off saying it will be in the game, but come release said feature is nowhere to be found. I love the idea that, because you wont purchase a product, stealing it is acceptable. Believe it or not, just by existing you're not entitled to own/play every game that comes out. I WANT too purchase products and support developers. But when they make it impossible to make a clear decission, why not pirate, see if its good and then buy it? I am a potential customer like everyone else but i am trying to make a informed decision. As has been discussed numerous times, downloading to try and then buying is fine to an extent. However, despite what people say, that is a vocal minority of pirates. The more likely occurrence is when they download a game, like or dislike, continue to play it. That means the person is either hypocritical for playing a bad game they wont pay or or not paying for a good game they should. There has been a lot of discussion and a lot of names, so it is easy to get lost as to who said what when it comes to specifics.
Yeah... But i agree with your post. As i agree with everything Liquid'Drone has said so far as well. And i am not trying to defend all piracy, i may not have been vocal enough about that.
But i don't know if the "vocal minority" is the right word. Alot of people i know pirate in the same way as i do. And if you ever come across a good torrent site, people in comments and in forums encourage others too buy games they feel deserve it.
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On December 01 2011 09:15 Runnin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 09:01 Interloper wrote:On December 01 2011 08:55 Brutefidget wrote:On December 01 2011 08:28 Liquid`Drone wrote:On December 01 2011 08:15 Brutefidget wrote:
Ideas like "The industry does fine without me buying games" and "If games weren't so overpriced then I would buy them" are poison to the gaming industry. If everyone started acting like this, we'd all have no games. I've made this exact same point like 4 times and I have yet to see anyone refute it. Please, piracy advocates, explain how if everyone pirates that there would still be a gaming industry.
the point is that it isn't a point, because not everyone pirates. people buy stuff if they can afford it and if what they purchase is better than what they pirate. many can afford it, and BECAUSE of piracy, game distributors have finally managed to provide an equally good service as pirates do. this thread is full of horrible analogies, so allow me to make some more. basically, many things are illegal in society. in norway, it's illegal to urinate in public. generally, it's seen as a good thing, that not everyone urinates in public, but it is also preferable if people are occasionally able to urinate in public without being fined as opposed to pissing their pants. your idea that "if everyone pirated, we'd have to gaming industry", is akin to a statement such as "if everyone pissed in public, our cities would smell like piss", but both are just.. meaningless statements, because not everyone pirates, not everyone wants to pirate, just like not everyone urinates in public because not everyone wants to urinate in public. but sometimes, pirating is preferable to not playing a game, and urinating in public is preferable to pissing your pants. you can say "but you shouldn't have gone out drinking knowing that you might find yourself having to piss without a suitable toilet nearby", just as you can say "well maybe you should have done something else than play a game you weren't able to afford", the fact is, in neither scenario is society hurt in a significant manner by the actions of the lawbreakers. meanwhile, lawbreakers have improved life quality specifically because they broke the law, and for me, as an innocent bystander, I'm both happy that mr pissypants didn't accidentially stumble into me soaking me in his piss, just as I am happy that my peg-legged friend recommended me and gave me a copy of dune 2 19 years ago which kickstarted my RTS gaming experience and ensured that I would contribute to the gaming industry for the rest of my adult life. Many people in this topic already have admitted to not buying stuff if they can afford it. If you just download a game, you save 60 dollars towards a new car! Why ever buy a game, right guys? You can't say it's not a point. You can say it's not reality, but that doesn't make it any less of a point. That is the exact reason why urinating in public is illegal and should be illegal, and piracy should be no different. Society would be much worse off if everyone adopted that behavior. It's very selfish to think that your actions, which are detrimental, are ok because you're only one person. To me, the person who buys games, if you don't pay for it of course I'd prefer for you to not play it. It's the same as me thinking that I'd much rather have people acting responsibly and finding a toilet rather than peeing all over my city. "Not everyone wants to pirate" - Untrue. Everyone would prefer to have something free, but those who don't want to pirate are those who understand that it hurts the gaming industry. So while not everyone wants to "pirate," everyone wants the same thing the pirates take. "In neither scenario is society hurt in a significant manner by the actions of the lawbreakers." - I fail to see how society benefits from public urination ever, but I'm just going to abandon your analogy for that point. Maybe right now, with the current ratio of lawbreakers to paying customers, the actions are not so detrimental. However, if more people decide to become lawbreakers, it will destroy the industry. You can't honestly think it's ok to break the law just because it's only a few people doing it? I don't want to pirate. But developers have made me do it due to thier insane DRMs, crappy console ports and close to illegal hype campaigns surrounding certain games. When i say illegal i mean it as in false advertising. Something like Ubisoft dose from time to time. Show stuff off saying it will be in the game, but come release said feature is nowhere to be found. If you don't like DRM, crappy console ports, and overhyped games then...don't buy them! If you don't like it, don't play it! Shockingly simple really. It's pathetic how you attempt to justify it, just be a man and admit you're being immoral and get on with your pirating. Since this thread loves half-baked analogies...I don't want to cheat on my wife, but she nags me all the time and makes me do my own laundry so really she made me do it. Leaving her is not an option because there are some things I like about her and would miss out on. But seriously it's all her fault.
You have not read the whole thread i guess... Some of the games that have insane DRMs and are crappy console ports and are overhyped can still be a good game (belive it or not). A good example is TES: Oblivion. I actualy enjoyd that game but would not have bought it if i had not pirated it due to all the shit it got from everyone i know.
And how you can call me immoral for not wanting to get cheated by a developer is beyond me. Are they not being immoral for not being honest about thier product?
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I'm surprised no one replied to my link about Steam, and Gabe Newell.
http://games.ign.com/articles/121/1213357p1.html
For a guy who makes his money off of selling video games, Gabe clearly isn't worried about piracy. All other points are moot.
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On December 01 2011 09:20 Interloper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 09:15 Runnin wrote:On December 01 2011 09:01 Interloper wrote:On December 01 2011 08:55 Brutefidget wrote:On December 01 2011 08:28 Liquid`Drone wrote:On December 01 2011 08:15 Brutefidget wrote:
Ideas like "The industry does fine without me buying games" and "If games weren't so overpriced then I would buy them" are poison to the gaming industry. If everyone started acting like this, we'd all have no games. I've made this exact same point like 4 times and I have yet to see anyone refute it. Please, piracy advocates, explain how if everyone pirates that there would still be a gaming industry.
the point is that it isn't a point, because not everyone pirates. people buy stuff if they can afford it and if what they purchase is better than what they pirate. many can afford it, and BECAUSE of piracy, game distributors have finally managed to provide an equally good service as pirates do. this thread is full of horrible analogies, so allow me to make some more. basically, many things are illegal in society. in norway, it's illegal to urinate in public. generally, it's seen as a good thing, that not everyone urinates in public, but it is also preferable if people are occasionally able to urinate in public without being fined as opposed to pissing their pants. your idea that "if everyone pirated, we'd have to gaming industry", is akin to a statement such as "if everyone pissed in public, our cities would smell like piss", but both are just.. meaningless statements, because not everyone pirates, not everyone wants to pirate, just like not everyone urinates in public because not everyone wants to urinate in public. but sometimes, pirating is preferable to not playing a game, and urinating in public is preferable to pissing your pants. you can say "but you shouldn't have gone out drinking knowing that you might find yourself having to piss without a suitable toilet nearby", just as you can say "well maybe you should have done something else than play a game you weren't able to afford", the fact is, in neither scenario is society hurt in a significant manner by the actions of the lawbreakers. meanwhile, lawbreakers have improved life quality specifically because they broke the law, and for me, as an innocent bystander, I'm both happy that mr pissypants didn't accidentially stumble into me soaking me in his piss, just as I am happy that my peg-legged friend recommended me and gave me a copy of dune 2 19 years ago which kickstarted my RTS gaming experience and ensured that I would contribute to the gaming industry for the rest of my adult life. Many people in this topic already have admitted to not buying stuff if they can afford it. If you just download a game, you save 60 dollars towards a new car! Why ever buy a game, right guys? You can't say it's not a point. You can say it's not reality, but that doesn't make it any less of a point. That is the exact reason why urinating in public is illegal and should be illegal, and piracy should be no different. Society would be much worse off if everyone adopted that behavior. It's very selfish to think that your actions, which are detrimental, are ok because you're only one person. To me, the person who buys games, if you don't pay for it of course I'd prefer for you to not play it. It's the same as me thinking that I'd much rather have people acting responsibly and finding a toilet rather than peeing all over my city. "Not everyone wants to pirate" - Untrue. Everyone would prefer to have something free, but those who don't want to pirate are those who understand that it hurts the gaming industry. So while not everyone wants to "pirate," everyone wants the same thing the pirates take. "In neither scenario is society hurt in a significant manner by the actions of the lawbreakers." - I fail to see how society benefits from public urination ever, but I'm just going to abandon your analogy for that point. Maybe right now, with the current ratio of lawbreakers to paying customers, the actions are not so detrimental. However, if more people decide to become lawbreakers, it will destroy the industry. You can't honestly think it's ok to break the law just because it's only a few people doing it? I don't want to pirate. But developers have made me do it due to thier insane DRMs, crappy console ports and close to illegal hype campaigns surrounding certain games. When i say illegal i mean it as in false advertising. Something like Ubisoft dose from time to time. Show stuff off saying it will be in the game, but come release said feature is nowhere to be found. If you don't like DRM, crappy console ports, and overhyped games then...don't buy them! If you don't like it, don't play it! Shockingly simple really. It's pathetic how you attempt to justify it, just be a man and admit you're being immoral and get on with your pirating. Since this thread loves half-baked analogies...I don't want to cheat on my wife, but she nags me all the time and makes me do my own laundry so really she made me do it. Leaving her is not an option because there are some things I like about her and would miss out on. But seriously it's all her fault. You have not read the whole thread i guess... Some of the games that have insane DRMs and are crappy console ports and are overhyped can still be a good game (belive it or not). A good example is TES: Oblivion. I actualy enjoyd that game but would not have bought it if i had not pirated it due to all the shit it got from everyone i know. And how you can call me immoral for not wanting to get cheated by a developer is beyond me. Are they not being immoral for not being honest about thier product?
The developer isn't cheating you. If you aren't convinced by the product, then don't buy it. DRM, porting, etc is all part of the product. I don't throw a hissy fit like a child when I order a meal at a restaurant that I don't like, and you shouldn't whine like a child when you buy a game and end up not liking it. Next time, I'll order a burger because I know it's going to be alright, and you can stick to X developer whose games you always enjoy if you're too immature to handle trying new things and not liking them.
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not gonna lie, I pirate single player games all the time, why should I pay $60 for a game with no multi player? I'd buy FFXIII if it was $30 but it was $60! I'm not gonna buy it now because I heard it was shit, so fuck that. If you're wondering, yeah I did it, I pirated skyrim. I never pirate multiplayer games.
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United States5162 Posts
On December 01 2011 09:29 wei2coolman wrote:I'm surprised no one replied to my link about Steam, and Gabe Newell. http://games.ign.com/articles/121/1213357p1.htmlFor a guy who makes his money off of selling video games, Gabe clearly isn't worried about piracy. All other points are moot.
I agree with him.
People will buy if you provide a better service then what piracy can provide. There will still be piracy, as there are a % of people who will get it for free if they can, but I also think a % of people do want to support developers if possible. It the latter % that feels dupped and used when they try to support a developer by purchasing and get shoddy work and intrusive DRM. This is another 'tragedy of the commons' as too many developers(I'm looking at you Ubisoft and Activision) seem to think more DRM with cookie-cutter, profit maximizing games will discourage piracy when in fact it just drives people to pirate more since you get a better product if you do. As much as I think pirates started the problem, developers have only perpetuated it themselves.
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EPT
