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On December 01 2011 07:41 Yergidy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 07:28 chickenhawk wrote:http://www.switched.com/2009/06/19/woman-fined-1-9-million-for-downloading-24-songs/
A simple google search brought this up... I think you know how to use a browser. Only in US that can be allowed. A mother of 4 children being sued by corporations for downloading 24 songs and sharing them at no profit would be fined 1.9 million dollars. That is so disgusting. So if she was a unmarried billionaire it would be OK to you right? Her marital status or how many kids doesn't change the fact that what she did was against the law. Like I said we can have a discussion over if the law is right or not, what you can't argue is if it is against the law or not because it is a FACT it is against the law.
Equal punishment equivalent to the weight of the crime.
So stealing 24 dollars worth of candy is equivalent to a 1.9million dollar fine?
No, If you stole 24 candy bars you get slapped with a 500 dollar fine, and possibly some jail time.
24 songs shouldn't be any more fucking different.
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On December 01 2011 07:41 Yergidy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 07:28 chickenhawk wrote:http://www.switched.com/2009/06/19/woman-fined-1-9-million-for-downloading-24-songs/
A simple google search brought this up... I think you know how to use a browser. Only in US that can be allowed. A mother of 4 children being sued by corporations for downloading 24 songs and sharing them at no profit would be fined 1.9 million dollars. That is so disgusting. So if she was a unmarried billionaire it would be OK to you right? Her marital status or how many kids doesn't change the fact that what she did was against the law. Like I said we can have a discussion over if the law is right or not, what you can't argue is if it is against the law or not because it is a FACT it is against the law.
How about you descend back to earth and think what you just said. You defend some idiots who want to destroy a mothers and her kids life just to give an example? Thats not about money or to punish her, it's ONLY to frighten others. Fuck you.
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On December 01 2011 07:41 Yergidy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 07:28 chickenhawk wrote:http://www.switched.com/2009/06/19/woman-fined-1-9-million-for-downloading-24-songs/
A simple google search brought this up... I think you know how to use a browser. Only in US that can be allowed. A mother of 4 children being sued by corporations for downloading 24 songs and sharing them at no profit would be fined 1.9 million dollars. That is so disgusting. So if she was a unmarried billionaire it would be OK to you right? Her marital status or how many kids doesn't change the fact that what she did was against the law. Like I said we can have a discussion over if the law is right or not, what you can't argue is if it is against the law or not because it is a FACT it is against the law.
Actually the original source (at least from an older articel of the same site, I don't suppose the facts changed) reads differently: CNET
A jury in Minneapolis decided today that she was liable for $1.5 million in copyright infringement damages to Capitol Records, or $62,500 for each song she illegally shared in April 2006.
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I find it disgusting that someone can be sued up to $80,000 per song. The majority of people who pirate songs don't normally pirate one or two songs, they pirate 50 up to thousands upon thousands. It is incredibly stupid in my opinion to ruin someone's life instantly for doing something that barely changes the life of the artist. Buying one song from iTunes will not give the artist that much money, yet they are allowed to sue $80,000? Oh America.....
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Norway28665 Posts
On December 01 2011 07:11 Filter wrote:
People always seem to overlook the type of games that get crushed by this type of piracy. Single player rpg's are right at the top of the list and thus we never really see any quality ones coming out these days. TW2 is an example of a game with heart and soul draped all over it that will never succeed because of the type of game it is.
Pirates need to wake up and realize how much they're hurting their industry. If a company has a choice between two concepts, one a mediocre shooter and one an amazing single player RPG they will always take the shooter because it will sell better, mostly because of online multiplayer.
Excuses for why people pirate don't hold water here when you look at the games that are getting hit by piracy.
the game mentioned in the OP is Witcher 2. it is a single player rpg. it has not been "crushed by piracy", in fact as has been shown by this thread, it has made a nice profit. and as was just mentioned by another poster, skyrim was released 3 weeks ago. that's the biggest and most anticipated, and guess what, most bought, single player rpg ever. and the next elder scrolls game is going to be even bigger, with even more quests, more voice actors, better graphics, more sales, and more pirated copies, because despite piracy, and arguably, partially due to piracy, the game industry keeps growing and growing and growing, and it will continue doing so.
small indie developers are hurt by piracy though, and that sucks. but these blanket "piracy is always wrong" "piracy equals theft" "piracy hurts everyone but the pirate" "piracy is illegal thus it is immoral" statements.. they're just a way of simplifying reality in a stupidifying manner.
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the witcher 2 is worst example ever and not a basis to go on :
at the release of the game , ppl who bought the game couldn't activate it so after a week , the studio decided to remove the DRM. After that , the game was playable without a crack.
Witcher 2 devellopers were on the side of the players, not about the money and that's the only things to care about!
Do you prefer to pay 70$ for 3hours of play? or devellopers saying "okay we fucked up , let's remove the DRM" about a good RPG?
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So if she was a unmarried billionaire it would be OK to you right? Her marital status or how many kids doesn't change the fact that what she did was against the law. Like I said we can have a discussion over if the law is right or not, what you can't argue is if it is against the law or not because it is a FACT it is against the law.
The law must be fair for everyone!
So if she was a unmarried billionaire it would be OK to you right?
Yes it would, but there is not point in discussion this point since we have different background and education. She was sue for 80 000 dollars per song! When they cost around 0.99 dollars? That is so pathetic,
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On December 01 2011 07:37 Mammel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 07:18 Yergidy wrote:On December 01 2011 07:15 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 07:10 Yergidy wrote:On December 01 2011 07:01 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 06:58 Yergidy wrote:On December 01 2011 06:55 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 06:53 Yergidy wrote:On December 01 2011 06:43 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 06:41 Yergidy wrote:
[quote]
Copying a game, movie, or music is against the law if it's distributed, for sale or for free, or is not for use of the purchaser. You are depriving the publisher/developer money they earned making and distributing the game if you give it away for free just like if you went to the store and took it off the shelf. So yes the analogy stands, especially if you read how he worded his point.
The people who make games are protected under the same copyright laws that protect music and movies and I believe people who put their time, effort, money, and souls into their "product", even if you can't touch it, should get the money they deserve for creating it. It is called Intellectual Property Rights and it is a part of the Copyright Laws. So the only guy breaking the law is the guy who uploaded it. No people who pirate are also in violation, it is the same thing as knowingly buying stolen property. Your downloading copied property for free . Did I miss something? Oh FFS people do I HAVE to dig out news reports of people who downloaded pirated music and had to pay some insanely high fine or go to jail... Do we really have to have a debate on something that is illegal for a fact and has been documented as such? Please do because I've never heard of anyone having to pay anything unless his been sharing them. Although I could theoretically see that happening in US. Here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/08/internet-piracy-crackdown_n_708933.htmlHere: http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2009-08-21/kolkata/28185076_1_downloads-police-custody-cellphone-shopand Here: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/10/04/national/main3330186.shtmlHappy? "against computer pirates who put illegal copies of movies and television series on the Internet" "Wednesday for illegally downloading and distributing popular songs either from the Internet or from CDs on mobile phones." "They had alleged she shared 1,702 songs online in violation of their copyrights. " I think I said "unless his been sharing them." http://www.switched.com/2009/06/19/woman-fined-1-9-million-for-downloading-24-songs/A simple google search brought this up... I think you know how to use a browser. And you actually want to pay to those fuckers  ? No matter how much I have money, I wouldn't. But anyway, I don't know about US laws, but I do know that if you download anything here, you will get absolutely nothing for it. I don't actually even know if you could be sued for it here, and I couldn't care less. If it's illegal, then I'm a criminal, but as long as I don't feel like it, I will never pay for a game. I don't know if that'll change when I'm able to afford them without any problems, but right now I want to play, and I want to eat, and as long as it's possible to do both then I'm going to do it.
Oh no, they punished her for doing something illegal? How cruel!
While it's a dumb story, and the fine is exorbitant, it very clearly states in many places how much you'll be fined for illegally downloading stuff. You take a risk, sometimes you get fucked.
Your mindset is immature. "I want I want I want gimme gimme gimme" makes you sound like a child who doesn't know the value of a dollar.
"If it's illegal, then I'm a criminal, but as long as I don't feel like it, I will never pay for a game." How petulant. If you can't afford something, you don't get it. Just because this type of theft is easy to pull off doesn't make you tough, doesn't make you right, and just makes you a punk. Get over yourself.
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On December 01 2011 07:25 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 06:32 Brutefidget wrote:
The losers in piracy are not the developers. The losers are the people who paid for the game. To know that you paid 60 dollars to play something that others are playing for free makes you feel like a sucker. that's not how I feel. like, I used to pirate games. up until I was 18 years old, I had prolly played a couple thousand games (most of them really small games for dos), and bought something like, 5. (or wait I also bought some compilation cds attached to magazines containing 250 games so I prolly bought like 505.) then two things happened: I became an adult with money, and it became easier to buy games online. now I don't pirate games anymore. very little changed regarding my perception of the morality of buying or pirating games. what changed was my ability to purchase games because I could now afford to do so, and that developers realized that it's a lot easier to distribute games through letting people download them less expensively online, than through people having to go down to some store. I've never felt like a sucker now, now I feel like a regular adult who pays for games because I can, and because I want to support the developers. I never felt like a leech before, I felt like a regular kid who wanted to play games but couldn't afford to buy them. if pirating hadn't been an option while growing up, what would have happened is that I would have done something else than play games; and then I probably wouldn't be an adult who purchases computer games today..
Your story is interesting but it still doesn't change the fact that if everyone did what you did we'd have no more games. For this reason, people who buy games have an animosity towards those who do not. One party is guaranteeing the continuance of the industry while the other gains all the benefit. Whether or not you feel like a leech doesn't change whether or not you are one.
Arguing with piracy advocates is a complete waste of time though. Feels like the midwest in this thread with how many straw men there are.
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I actually bet the music industry LOVE pirating. It allows them to sue for over 80000 times the amount of the songs worth. lol/
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Oh no, they punished her for doing something illegal? How cruel!
While it's a dumb story, and the fine is exorbitant, it very clearly states in many places how much you'll be fined for illegally downloading stuff. You take a risk, sometimes you get fucked.
Your mindset is immature. "I want I want I want gimme gimme gimme" makes you sound like a child who doesn't know the value of a dollar.
"If it's illegal, then I'm a criminal, but as long as I don't feel like it, I will never pay for a game." How petulant. If you can't afford something, you don't get it. Just because this type of theft is easy to pull off doesn't make you tough, doesn't make you right, and just makes you a punk. Get over yourself.
Actually she was only fined 50 thousand dollars, then the Corporations gave her an opinion of paying just half, she refused, she is an hero and not a criminal.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-20021735-93.html
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On December 01 2011 07:53 chickenhawk wrote:Show nested quote +Oh no, they punished her for doing something illegal? How cruel!
While it's a dumb story, and the fine is exorbitant, it very clearly states in many places how much you'll be fined for illegally downloading stuff. You take a risk, sometimes you get fucked.
Your mindset is immature. "I want I want I want gimme gimme gimme" makes you sound like a child who doesn't know the value of a dollar.
"If it's illegal, then I'm a criminal, but as long as I don't feel like it, I will never pay for a game." How petulant. If you can't afford something, you don't get it. Just because this type of theft is easy to pull off doesn't make you tough, doesn't make you right, and just makes you a punk. Get over yourself. Actually she was only fined 50 thousand dollars, then the Corporations gave her an opinion of paying just half, she refused, she is an hero and not a criminal. http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-20021735-93.html
That still makes her a criminal, just one who decided to make up for it. The corporations aren't the bad guys here, they said they'll fine people who pirate and seed, and then they followed through on it. They even offered to let her pay half.
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On December 01 2011 07:46 Zodiac7777 wrote:
I find it disgusting that someone can be sued up to $80,000 per song. The majority of people who pirate songs don't normally pirate one or two songs, they pirate 50 up to thousands upon thousands. It is incredibly stupid in my opinion to ruin someone's life instantly for doing something that barely changes the life of the artist. Buying one song from iTunes will not give the artist that much money, yet they are allowed to sue $80,000? Oh America.....
The reasons for these exorbitant fines are that most songs are downloaded through a file sharing or peer to peer application. The downloading of the single song is not viewed as the entirety of the crime; it also needs to be accounted for that the person who downloaded the song also made it available for others to download from them. Thus the attribution of a fine much more costly due to the loss of potential income being that much greater.
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On December 01 2011 07:48 HereAndNow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 07:37 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 07:18 Yergidy wrote:On December 01 2011 07:15 Mammel wrote:"against computer pirates who put illegal copies of movies and television series on the Internet" "Wednesday for illegally downloading and distributing popular songs either from the Internet or from CDs on mobile phones." "They had alleged she shared 1,702 songs online in violation of their copyrights. " I think I said "unless his been sharing them." http://www.switched.com/2009/06/19/woman-fined-1-9-million-for-downloading-24-songs/A simple google search brought this up... I think you know how to use a browser. And you actually want to pay to those fuckers ? No matter how much I have money, I wouldn't. But anyway, I don't know about US laws, but I do know that if you download anything here, you will get absolutely nothing for it. I don't actually even know if you could be sued for it here, and I couldn't care less. If it's illegal, then I'm a criminal, but as long as I don't feel like it, I will never pay for a game. I don't know if that'll change when I'm able to afford them without any problems, but right now I want to play, and I want to eat, and as long as it's possible to do both then I'm going to do it. Oh no, they punished her for doing something illegal? How cruel! While it's a dumb story, and the fine is exorbitant, it very clearly states in many places how much you'll be fined for illegally downloading stuff. You take a risk, sometimes you get fucked. Your mindset is immature. "I want I want I want gimme gimme gimme" makes you sound like a child who doesn't know the value of a dollar. "If it's illegal, then I'm a criminal, but as long as I don't feel like it, I will never pay for a game." How petulant. If you can't afford something, you don't get it. Just because this type of theft is easy to pull off doesn't make you tough, doesn't make you right, and just makes you a punk. Get over yourself.
I just don't think it's bad to take something you aren't willing to buy as long as taking it hurts no one.
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On December 01 2011 07:48 Brutefidget wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 07:25 Liquid`Drone wrote:On December 01 2011 06:32 Brutefidget wrote:
The losers in piracy are not the developers. The losers are the people who paid for the game. To know that you paid 60 dollars to play something that others are playing for free makes you feel like a sucker. that's not how I feel. like, I used to pirate games. up until I was 18 years old, I had prolly played a couple thousand games (most of them really small games for dos), and bought something like, 5. (or wait I also bought some compilation cds attached to magazines containing 250 games so I prolly bought like 505.) then two things happened: I became an adult with money, and it became easier to buy games online. now I don't pirate games anymore. very little changed regarding my perception of the morality of buying or pirating games. what changed was my ability to purchase games because I could now afford to do so, and that developers realized that it's a lot easier to distribute games through letting people download them less expensively online, than through people having to go down to some store. I've never felt like a sucker now, now I feel like a regular adult who pays for games because I can, and because I want to support the developers. I never felt like a leech before, I felt like a regular kid who wanted to play games but couldn't afford to buy them. if pirating hadn't been an option while growing up, what would have happened is that I would have done something else than play games; and then I probably wouldn't be an adult who purchases computer games today.. Your story is interesting but it still doesn't change the fact that if everyone did what you did we'd have no more games. For this reason, people who buy games have an animosity towards those who do not. One party is guaranteeing the continuance of the industry while the other gains all the benefit. Whether or not you feel like a leech doesn't change whether or not you are one. Arguing with piracy advocates is a complete waste of time though. Feels like the midwest in this thread with how many straw men there are.
OK, so if I pirate games for any reason I'm a leech? Just want to clarify that.
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Honestly, this is why I hate piracy.
Sure, you don't have to pay a dime to get something, sounds great. But when I think about it, the people who made the product get cheated. You love the game enough to pirate it, yet you can't be decent and give the company that made it some money to reward them?
Fuck, no wonder why some games are shit awful these days. People are just going to pirate it if its too amazing.
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United States5162 Posts
On December 01 2011 07:57 Mammel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 07:48 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 07:37 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 07:18 Yergidy wrote:On December 01 2011 07:15 Mammel wrote:"against computer pirates who put illegal copies of movies and television series on the Internet" "Wednesday for illegally downloading and distributing popular songs either from the Internet or from CDs on mobile phones." "They had alleged she shared 1,702 songs online in violation of their copyrights. " I think I said "unless his been sharing them." http://www.switched.com/2009/06/19/woman-fined-1-9-million-for-downloading-24-songs/A simple google search brought this up... I think you know how to use a browser. And you actually want to pay to those fuckers ? No matter how much I have money, I wouldn't. But anyway, I don't know about US laws, but I do know that if you download anything here, you will get absolutely nothing for it. I don't actually even know if you could be sued for it here, and I couldn't care less. If it's illegal, then I'm a criminal, but as long as I don't feel like it, I will never pay for a game. I don't know if that'll change when I'm able to afford them without any problems, but right now I want to play, and I want to eat, and as long as it's possible to do both then I'm going to do it. Oh no, they punished her for doing something illegal? How cruel! While it's a dumb story, and the fine is exorbitant, it very clearly states in many places how much you'll be fined for illegally downloading stuff. You take a risk, sometimes you get fucked. Your mindset is immature. "I want I want I want gimme gimme gimme" makes you sound like a child who doesn't know the value of a dollar. "If it's illegal, then I'm a criminal, but as long as I don't feel like it, I will never pay for a game." How petulant. If you can't afford something, you don't get it. Just because this type of theft is easy to pull off doesn't make you tough, doesn't make you right, and just makes you a punk. Get over yourself. I just don't think it's bad to take something you aren't willing to buy as long as taking it hurts no one.
This is such a flawed line of reasoning. It's the exact reason we have things such as the tragedy of the commons.
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Norway28665 Posts
On December 01 2011 07:48 Brutefidget wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 07:25 Liquid`Drone wrote:On December 01 2011 06:32 Brutefidget wrote:
The losers in piracy are not the developers. The losers are the people who paid for the game. To know that you paid 60 dollars to play something that others are playing for free makes you feel like a sucker. that's not how I feel. like, I used to pirate games. up until I was 18 years old, I had prolly played a couple thousand games (most of them really small games for dos), and bought something like, 5. (or wait I also bought some compilation cds attached to magazines containing 250 games so I prolly bought like 505.) then two things happened: I became an adult with money, and it became easier to buy games online. now I don't pirate games anymore. very little changed regarding my perception of the morality of buying or pirating games. what changed was my ability to purchase games because I could now afford to do so, and that developers realized that it's a lot easier to distribute games through letting people download them less expensively online, than through people having to go down to some store. I've never felt like a sucker now, now I feel like a regular adult who pays for games because I can, and because I want to support the developers. I never felt like a leech before, I felt like a regular kid who wanted to play games but couldn't afford to buy them. if pirating hadn't been an option while growing up, what would have happened is that I would have done something else than play games; and then I probably wouldn't be an adult who purchases computer games today.. Your story is interesting but it still doesn't change the fact that if everyone did what you did we'd have no more games. For this reason, people who buy games have an animosity towards those who do not. One party is guaranteeing the continuance of the industry while the other gains all the benefit. Whether or not you feel like a leech doesn't change whether or not you are one. Arguing with piracy advocates is a complete waste of time though. Feels like the midwest in this thread with how many straw men there are.
no.. people have different abilities to pay for stuff through different periods of their lives. if everyone did what I did, then kids, who are largely pirates today, would be pirates anyway, and adults, who are largely consumers today, would be consumers anyway. the industry makes enough money to continuously expand and make more games with more resources poured into them. I could understand the whole "piracy kills gaming"! argument if the gaming industry was deteriorating and becoming smaller every year, like if it had peaked in 2002 or something. but that's not the case, it's increasing, games are becoming more expensive to make, and sales numbers are higher than they used to be.
I _do_ feel bad for small indie developers who make good games and get very little money out of it, but even if being an indie game developer means that you're just scraping by doing something you love with the potential of building a name for yourself that might get picked up by a bigger developer, then that's not too different from how say, the music or acting industry have been for decades. and both industries are still very big, and consumers have a wider variety of options than ever before. stuff is mostly good and piracy is not wholly bad.
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That still makes her a criminal, just one who decided to make up for it. The corporations aren't the bad guys here, they said they'll fine people who pirate and seed, and then they followed through on it. They even offered to let her pay half.
Although I have little knowledge from US law, if she was sued by corporation that means it was a civil case and therefore, even if she lost it, she is not a criminal?
They even offered to let her pay half.
Because they did not want a judgment from a judge saying that 80 000 dollars per song was to much.
In my country only the government can fine people.
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On December 01 2011 07:59 Cloud9157 wrote:
Honestly, this is why I hate piracy.
Sure, you don't have to pay a dime to get something, sounds great. But when I think about it, the people who made the product get cheated. You love the game enough to pirate it, yet you can't be decent and give the company that made it some money to reward them?
Fuck, no wonder why some games are shit awful these days. People are just going to pirate it if its too amazing.
No the devs are not losing anything cause you wouldn't have bought it anyway. Either you realize the game is worth it after pirating it and buy it then or you don't think it's worth it and don't buy it.
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