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On December 01 2011 06:56 Mortal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 06:51 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 06:48 Mortal wrote:
I've pirated multiple games in my day, and will continue to do so. Until the time when someone makes some form of media that's actually worth the money myself, or everyone else, works for, I have no problem not paying for it. Movies and music especially, are absolute shit recently. NO ONE should be paying for that garbage.
My income is fixed, so if the gaming companies suffer because I'd rather buy food for a week, tough. How are you using this as an argument? Have you ever done any type of argumentitive writing or debate before? Obviously not. This is bad. But I need it. I really don't want it. But I'm going to pirate it anyway. If you think it's bad, why do you need it? Is there a man in your house holding a gun to your head and forcing you to play games you think are shit? Or watch terrible movies? I'm going to go with no. Because last I checked, everyone needs a ways to spend what minimal free time they may have. If I want to download a movie and watch it, regardless of quality because I happen to have 2 hours to spare that day, so be it. Doesn't mean it's good, it's just a way to spend a little bit of time. Who said I need it? Where exactly did I say "I must watch movies, but I just don't know how to afford them!" I have a little time, so instead of learning another language or something, when I want to unwind, I download a movie or a game. BTW, I didn't say the games are shit, I'm saying I could spend that money better somewhere else, it's not worth it. The resources exist, not my fault that they're there. I'm saying the other media (music/movies) are trash mostly, but it's a way to spend a little time.
It's been said here: there are ways you can spend your free time legally. Without paying! Go outside, or watch TV, or call someone, or play any of the many free to play games. Just because you want something doesn't mean it should automatically be given to you.
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On December 01 2011 06:55 Mammel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 06:53 Yergidy wrote:On December 01 2011 06:43 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 06:41 Yergidy wrote:On December 01 2011 06:30 chickenhawk wrote:Damn I can't afford that Lamborgini, guess I will just take it off the lot for free anyway... Seriously? What kind of point is that? That analogy does not work since you cannot copy a Lamborgini. Copying is not stealing. You could copy a Lamborgini if you wanted and no one would care about that. (different story if you tried to sell it) Copying a game, movie, or music is against the law if it's distributed, for sale or for free, or is not for use of the purchaser. You are depriving the publisher/developer money they earned making and distributing the game if you give it away for free just like if you went to the store and took it off the shelf. So yes the analogy stands, especially if you read how he worded his point. The people who make games are protected under the same copyright laws that protect music and movies and I believe people who put their time, effort, money, and souls into their "product", even if you can't touch it, should get the money they deserve for creating it. It is called Intellectual Property Rights and it is a part of the Copyright Laws. So the only guy breaking the law is the guy who uploaded it. No people who pirate are also in violation, it is the same thing as knowingly buying stolen property. Your downloading copied property for free . Did I miss something?
Oh FFS people do I HAVE to dig out news reports of people who downloaded pirated music and had to pay some insanely high fine or go to jail... Do we really have to have a debate on something that is illegal for a fact and has been documented as such?
Copying intellectual property and distributing it is against the law and the same as stealing extra copies from the store. Knowingly using or buying stolen property is against the law as well. The legitimacy of copyright laws is something that can be discussed and is an OPINION, weather or not something is against the law or not when it is proven to be against the law is not debatable and a FACT...
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On December 01 2011 06:56 daemir wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 06:53 Karnage77 wrote:
Whether or not the item is tangible is completely beside the point. You are stealing intellectual property. Even the name "pirating" implies its amoral essence. I won't lie, I have illegally downloaded music, software, and music... but I do it knowing I am a piece of shit. You are using someone's work for your personal gain at no benefit to them.
When you go to see your favorite band in concert you aren't receiving any item are you? No. You get to be entertained because of their hard work. Should the musicians not get paid for their hard work? What if you sit through the entire concert but they don't play your favorite song... should your ticket be refunded? You sit in the concert listening as your favorite band is driveling in a drunken stupor and people shout them off the stage and leave the concert and then ask their money back because the concert was total shit, but you couldn't know that before you paid and listened, could you?
Except the majority of the crowd was pleased with what they paid for. The only people wanting refunds are the ones who say it didn't meet their standards... aka entitled little brats.
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United States928 Posts
Why would I pay $60 for a game that will last me 20 hours when I can pay $60 to buy starcraft and have unlimited hours of playtime? The problem is every game is treated as having equal value when they don't. This is why I download rpg's before I buy them these days.
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On December 01 2011 06:57 HereAndNow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 06:54 Interloper wrote:On December 01 2011 06:51 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 06:48 Mortal wrote:
I've pirated multiple games in my day, and will continue to do so. Until the time when someone makes some form of media that's actually worth the money myself, or everyone else, works for, I have no problem not paying for it. Movies and music especially, are absolute shit recently. NO ONE should be paying for that garbage.
My income is fixed, so if the gaming companies suffer because I'd rather buy food for a week, tough. How are you using this as an argument? Have you ever done any type of argumentitive writing or debate before? Obviously not. This is bad. But I need it. I really don't want it. But I'm going to pirate it anyway. If you think it's bad, why do you need it? Is there a man in your house holding a gun to your head and forcing you to play games you think are shit? Or watch terrible movies? I'm going to go with no. It's more like, "I think this is good let me try it, and see for my self.". It's not "This is so fkn bad i am going to pirate trolololol." Why do you go too such extremes? Its not like all pirates download games they hate and sadisticly play them for hours on end. Did you read the post I responded to? Show nested quote +Until the time when someone makes some form of media that's actually worth the money myself, or everyone else, works for, I have no problem not paying for it. Movies and music especially, are absolute shit recently. NO ONE should be paying for that garbage.
He's literally saying that every entertainment media is shit, yet he needs it (for some reason) without paying. This is the general mentality of a lot of pirates. "It's bad but I want because I want gimme gimme gimme."
Yes i read his post, but i guess my answer was not only to you. It was a poor post to make.
What im trying to say is that alot of people (You included) in here seems too think that all pirates activley seek out games they know suck and proceeds to play them just because they can. I don't know if it's because im tired and i am reading stuff wrong but that how some posts look.
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I don't know.. It's like.. It's kind of stupid.. The whole thing.
I mean, like.. How many watches playthroughs now a day instead of actually buying the game? I know I've watched a lot of playthroughs instead of buying the games. I feel that hurt developers more than if I would pirate, from my side at least. Because either way; I would not buy their game. Chances are I wouldn't buy it to begin with, but commentary playthroughs hurt the sale at least as much as piracy, I believe.
Developers (or I guess publishers) should stop being so uptight. What will happen with PC games if piracy keeps on (which it will) is that less money will be spent on huge graphics and more money will be spent on making the game easier to modify. As much as I dislike Minecraft, the idea is brilliant and that game will go on for a long time, until there's another game, as welcoming to modify as minecraft.
And I quite like that idea. Not only will it bring more variety than ever possible for a 'closed' game. It will also have the possibility to increase a lot of peoples knowledge, or indeed will to learn, about coding or whatever is needed to actually modify a game. I like knowledge.
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Oh FFS people do I HAVE to dig out news reports of people who downloaded pirated music and had to pay some insanely high fine or go to jail... Do we really have to have a debate on something that is illegal for a fact and has been documented as such?
Thats only really happens in US. Why go to jail from copying something? A fine? Yes!
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On December 01 2011 06:58 Yergidy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 06:55 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 06:53 Yergidy wrote:On December 01 2011 06:43 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 06:41 Yergidy wrote:On December 01 2011 06:30 chickenhawk wrote:Damn I can't afford that Lamborgini, guess I will just take it off the lot for free anyway... Seriously? What kind of point is that? That analogy does not work since you cannot copy a Lamborgini. Copying is not stealing. You could copy a Lamborgini if you wanted and no one would care about that. (different story if you tried to sell it) Copying a game, movie, or music is against the law if it's distributed, for sale or for free, or is not for use of the purchaser. You are depriving the publisher/developer money they earned making and distributing the game if you give it away for free just like if you went to the store and took it off the shelf. So yes the analogy stands, especially if you read how he worded his point. The people who make games are protected under the same copyright laws that protect music and movies and I believe people who put their time, effort, money, and souls into their "product", even if you can't touch it, should get the money they deserve for creating it. It is called Intellectual Property Rights and it is a part of the Copyright Laws. So the only guy breaking the law is the guy who uploaded it. No people who pirate are also in violation, it is the same thing as knowingly buying stolen property. Your downloading copied property for free . Did I miss something? Oh FFS people do I HAVE to dig out news reports of people who downloaded pirated music and had to pay some insanely high fine or go to jail... Do we really have to have a debate on something that is illegal for a fact and has been documented as such?
Please do because I've never heard of anyone having to pay anything unless his been sharing them. Although I could theoretically see that happening in US.
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On December 01 2011 06:59 Karnage77 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 06:56 daemir wrote:On December 01 2011 06:53 Karnage77 wrote:
Whether or not the item is tangible is completely beside the point. You are stealing intellectual property. Even the name "pirating" implies its amoral essence. I won't lie, I have illegally downloaded music, software, and music... but I do it knowing I am a piece of shit. You are using someone's work for your personal gain at no benefit to them.
When you go to see your favorite band in concert you aren't receiving any item are you? No. You get to be entertained because of their hard work. Should the musicians not get paid for their hard work? What if you sit through the entire concert but they don't play your favorite song... should your ticket be refunded? You sit in the concert listening as your favorite band is driveling in a drunken stupor and people shout them off the stage and leave the concert and then ask their money back because the concert was total shit, but you couldn't know that before you paid and listened, could you? Except the majority of the crowd was pleased with what they paid for. The only people wanting refunds are the ones who say it didn't meet their standards... aka entitled little brats.
RL example From Amy Whinehouse, huehue
it can happen in music, it can happen in games.
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Not being worth the money doesn't necessarily mean that the game is absolute shit. Let's say a game offers 12 hours of gameplay. Depending on how fun it is it might be worth 20€ in my opinion but it's sold at 50€. Thus I pirate it because I can't justify spending that much money on it.
I think the games industry needs a better business model. I don't think I have pirated a single song since I started using spotify 4 months ago.
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On November 30 2011 22:22 Fazzmania wrote:
The Dark Souls example only worked because it was a console game. Any sort of similar security measure on PC could easily be circumvented by any decent scene group.
yeah agreed, PC is completely different
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On December 01 2011 07:04 Maitolasi wrote:
Not being worth the money doesn't necessarily mean that the game is absolute shit. Let's say a game offers 12 hours of gameplay. Depending on how fun it is it might be worth 20€ in my opinion but it's sold at 50€. Thus I pirate it because I can't justify spending that much money on it.
I think the games industry needs a better business model. I don't think I have pirated a single song since I started using spotify 4 months ago.
Or you could rent it, or you could buy it full price and return it and get something with the refund? Even if it's not full price refund, you get quite a bit back.
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On December 01 2011 04:17 HereAndNow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 04:10 wei2coolman wrote:
All I know is that all the industries that "piracy" supposedly hurts, are all growing.
As far as numbers go, these industries are expanding, not diminishing. And they would grow larger and faster if they weren't being slowed by piracy. If every person who pirated actually bought the game/CD/movie as well (and don't try and pretend they do), the prices would go down because the makers would know the market is willing to pay. Let's say you make a game and you need to make $120 between 5 people to break even. You know three of those five will pirate, so you price it at $60. If you knew all 5 people would buy it legally, you'd only charge $24.
That's how steam does it. Steam has proven that piracy isn't the issue, its the companies.
http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/steam-services-render-piracy-a-non-issue-for-valve-newell-says/
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When I stop getting charged 260% of the cost of what other countries are charged, I will stop pirating games
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OmdUX.jpg)
$29.99 CAD = $28.65 AUD btw
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On December 01 2011 07:07 HereAndNow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 07:04 Maitolasi wrote:
Not being worth the money doesn't necessarily mean that the game is absolute shit. Let's say a game offers 12 hours of gameplay. Depending on how fun it is it might be worth 20€ in my opinion but it's sold at 50€. Thus I pirate it because I can't justify spending that much money on it.
I think the games industry needs a better business model. I don't think I have pirated a single song since I started using spotify 4 months ago. Or you could rent it, or you could buy it full price and return it and get something with the refund? Even if it's not full price refund, you get quite a bit back.
You can't rent or return computer games.
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but pirates are cool, ever read one piece?
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On December 01 2011 07:01 Mammel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 06:58 Yergidy wrote:On December 01 2011 06:55 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 06:53 Yergidy wrote:On December 01 2011 06:43 Mammel wrote:On December 01 2011 06:41 Yergidy wrote:On December 01 2011 06:30 chickenhawk wrote:Damn I can't afford that Lamborgini, guess I will just take it off the lot for free anyway... Seriously? What kind of point is that? That analogy does not work since you cannot copy a Lamborgini. Copying is not stealing. You could copy a Lamborgini if you wanted and no one would care about that. (different story if you tried to sell it) Copying a game, movie, or music is against the law if it's distributed, for sale or for free, or is not for use of the purchaser. You are depriving the publisher/developer money they earned making and distributing the game if you give it away for free just like if you went to the store and took it off the shelf. So yes the analogy stands, especially if you read how he worded his point. The people who make games are protected under the same copyright laws that protect music and movies and I believe people who put their time, effort, money, and souls into their "product", even if you can't touch it, should get the money they deserve for creating it. It is called Intellectual Property Rights and it is a part of the Copyright Laws. So the only guy breaking the law is the guy who uploaded it. No people who pirate are also in violation, it is the same thing as knowingly buying stolen property. Your downloading copied property for free . Did I miss something? Oh FFS people do I HAVE to dig out news reports of people who downloaded pirated music and had to pay some insanely high fine or go to jail... Do we really have to have a debate on something that is illegal for a fact and has been documented as such? Please do because I've never heard of anyone having to pay anything unless his been sharing them. Although I could theoretically see that happening in US.
Here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/08/internet-piracy-crackdown_n_708933.html
Here:
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2009-08-21/kolkata/28185076_1_downloads-police-custody-cellphone-shop
and Here:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/10/04/national/main3330186.shtml
Happy?
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On December 01 2011 07:07 HereAndNow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 07:04 Maitolasi wrote:
Not being worth the money doesn't necessarily mean that the game is absolute shit. Let's say a game offers 12 hours of gameplay. Depending on how fun it is it might be worth 20€ in my opinion but it's sold at 50€. Thus I pirate it because I can't justify spending that much money on it.
I think the games industry needs a better business model. I don't think I have pirated a single song since I started using spotify 4 months ago. Or you could rent it, or you could buy it full price and return it and get something with the refund? Even if it's not full price refund, you get quite a bit back.
If you have had a good experience returning stuff to stores good for you (and i mean that!) But so many times at least i have tried to return something and the person behind the register just gives a big grin and says FUCK YOU! and you walk back out again with your crappy game in hand. Different countrys + different stores = Different results.
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People always seem to overlook the type of games that get crushed by this type of piracy. Single player rpg's are right at the top of the list and thus we never really see any quality ones coming out these days. TW2 is an example of a game with heart and soul draped all over it that will never succeed because of the type of game it is.
Pirates need to wake up and realize how much they're hurting their industry. If a company has a choice between two concepts, one a mediocre shooter and one an amazing single player RPG they will always take the shooter because it will sell better, mostly because of online multiplayer.
Excuses for why people pirate don't hold water here when you look at the games that are getting hit by piracy.
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On December 01 2011 07:04 Maitolasi wrote:
Not being worth the money doesn't necessarily mean that the game is absolute shit. Let's say a game offers 12 hours of gameplay. Depending on how fun it is it might be worth 20€ in my opinion but it's sold at 50€. Thus I pirate it because I can't justify spending that much money on it.
I think the games industry needs a better business model. I don't think I have pirated a single song since I started using spotify 4 months ago.
>Implying length of game equates to worth
Portal 2 was full price and really short. Worth every penny.
Vanquish was full price and I knocked it out in a day. Best 3rd person shooter I've played in a long time, worth it.
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EPT
