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On November 22 2011 06:44 Pleiades wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 06:36 domovoi wrote:On November 22 2011 06:35 Pleiades wrote:
UC davis is like 42% white, 42% asian in terms of students who enroll there. Asian university students also tend to be in the high income bracket. Not all, I know some past and present Vietnamese and Hmong students that go there that have parents who immigrated after the Vietnam war. Their families are technically living in poverty due to their income.
Broad generalization countered by personal narrative. This has become a new meaning of futility.
At this point, I think everything that can be said has been said, I think all sides of this issue have been argued. All that's really left is to see what the university does next.
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On November 22 2011 06:33 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 06:32 domovoi wrote:On November 22 2011 06:21 travis wrote:
lol at how biased your post is. "rich privileged college students". how do you know anything about them? that's complete assumptions. The vast majority of the students in the video are white. White college students are predominantly in the upper half of America's income bracket. Moreover, from a global income perspective, Americans at nearly all income levels are in the top 5%. "blue collar officer put in a stressful situation". you mean, doing their job??? Yes, I mean doing their job. A lot of OWS supporters treat the police as if they are on the side of "THE MAN," which feeds into their narcissistic, anti-establishment world view. It certainly does not promote the 99% message OWS has tried but failed to express. I wasn't aware that every single white person was rich. What a stunning revelation you have brought upon us.
Have you seen the tuition fees for UC Davis?
http://admissions.ucdavis.edu/cost/
It's not cheap. I doubt that many poor people can afford it.
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My god, how easily threads get derailed by a single comment. The question of this thread is whether the police used excessive force, and that has absolutely nothing to do with anyone's race, income, tuition...
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On November 22 2011 06:50 JinDesu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 06:36 domovoi wrote:On November 22 2011 06:35 Pleiades wrote:
UC davis is like 42% white, 42% asian in terms of students who enroll there. Asian university students also tend to be in the high income bracket. Buddy, buddy, buddy... I really like to see where you get that idea. A good portion of the asian students that attend universities in NYC depend highly on GPA based scholarships (because they can achieve those) and on federal/state loans.
Asian families generally have a higher income than the average American family.
University students generally come from families with much higher income than the average American family.
Students with high GPA and SAT generally come from families with higher income than the average American family.
From both an American and a global standard, it is likely that these students are rich. My point is that it doesn't help attract the average American, who is increasingly someone who could not even afford to attend college, much less a high-caliber one like UC Davis, to OWS's cause if they keep seeing these students deliberately aggravating "blue collar" types like police officers and engaging in anti-establishment rhetoric. It's poor messaging.
If you think it's a criticism to call these kids rich, or that I think we should ignore them because they are rich, then that's a problem with your own inadequacies.
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On November 22 2011 06:51 TheToast wrote:
Broad generalization countered by personal narrative. This has become a new meaning of futility.
At this point, I think everything that can be said has been said, I think all sides of this issue have been argued. All that's really left is to see what the university does next.
Exactly the point I wanted to make. You can't generalize income with race.
EDIT: I meant you can't generalize income of everyone of that race. I wouldn't say that the average asian american I walked up to was doing better than the rest of america.
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these kids have huge loans they have to repay after college but can't find a job after they graduate. i know people who graduated college working at mcdonalds, and another kid who graduated in criminal justice just reselling smartphones from craigslist. you guys don't understand how bad the American economy is. these newly graduated don't count in unemployment statistics. top 5% thats only if you can enter.
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On November 22 2011 06:56 Pleiades wrote:
I wouldn't say that the average asian american I walked up to was doing better than the rest of america.
That's probably untrue (it would depend on where you live), but it has nothing to do with my point. It is absolutely true that the average Asian is richer than the average American, as is the average white person. As an Asian, I have no problem with that, but in the context of OWS protests at universities, why the fuck do the protesters find it necessary to aggravate campus police? This isn't an isolated incident either, you're seeing it all over the country. And popular support for the movement is decreasing because of this image problem.
When the Tea Party was protesting, you didn't see any of this bullshit. And they were able to turn their movement into political power. It's really fucking sad that the OWS is too stupid to mimic their success, because for all the Tea Party's success, it's been a fucking a disaster for everyone else.
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On November 22 2011 07:02 domovoi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 06:56 Pleiades wrote:
I wouldn't say that the average asian american I walked up to was doing better than the rest of america. That's probably untrue (it would depend on where you live), but it has nothing to do with my point. It is absolutely true that the average Asian is richer than the average American, as is the average white person. As an Asian, I have no problem with that, but in the context of OWS protests at universities, why the fuck do the protesters find it necessary to aggravate campus police? This isn't an isolated incident either, you're seeing it all over the country. And popular support for the movement is decreasing because of this image problem.
I give it until New Year's max before it totally dies down. Seems to me like they're running out of gas.
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On November 22 2011 05:59 RoosterSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 05:57 SupLilSon wrote:On November 22 2011 05:46 RoosterSamurai wrote:On November 22 2011 05:42 KinosJourney2 wrote:
Disgusting how people employed to protect peaceful civilians do the opposite of what they are supposed to do.
What retard policeman had the idea to pepperspray people not posing a threat?
People like these should be fired and beaten to death in my opinion. How is firing them and beating them to death any better than them pepper spraying people in the face? Because when you sign up to be a police officer you take on certain responsibilities and duties. Among those are protecting and serving your community. These cops have shown a complete disregard for the safety and well being of the people they swore to protect. I honestly don't care about the legality of the protests, as long as they weren't violent there is NO reason to employ weapons against them. Not to mention the way the police used the spray was clearly in an attempt to inflict harm and pain, otherwise you wouldn't be spraying kids down the mouth and from 2 feet away. Ok....I don't disagree with you, but you completely side-stepped my question. Not that I actually expected someone to try to answer it..It should be universally obvious that beating someone to death is a bit worse than spraying them with pepper spray.
Yea I didn't say that I agree with you on that. Obviously pepper spray is not the deadliest weapon police can employ but if the police deem it necessary to use that on seemingly docile college students then I have to disagree with their policy. Police should have every right to carry guns, they absolutely need these weapons to effectively do their job. They should also have the authority to make calls on what measure of force is necessary as it is them who are truly experts. But I just don't see how their actions are justified here.
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On November 22 2011 05:46 RoosterSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 05:42 KinosJourney2 wrote:
Disgusting how people employed to protect peaceful civilians do the opposite of what they are supposed to do.
What retard policeman had the idea to pepperspray people not posing a threat?
People like these should be fired and beaten to death in my opinion. How is firing them and beating them to death any better than them pepper spraying people in the face?
well... it would be self defence or at least retaliation, not unprovoked violence against people not posing any threat. i didn't read more than first page of this but the responses disgusted me too much to continue... How can people defend the police doing this? it's what you would expect in soviet russia.
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I just want to add, that it seems strange to say that it shouldn't be hard to arrest non-violent protesters... The only reason a person assumes they will be non-violent during an upcoming arrest is because they said they would be... Maybe they will, I won't go as far as to say they won't, its just that they are clearly not cooperative (which is obviously the point of the protest)...
So now you have police officers having to arrest non-cooperative people who promise not to be violent, but can not safely be trusted to uphold that promise when arrests begin... Pepper spray is used as a non-lethal method of compliance and is considered safer (for the officer) than physically forcing someone to comply, which would have been required here due to their reluctance to leave on their own...
So in my (well trained) opinion, pepper spray use may or may not have been acceptable in this situation... It depends on the reason for use... If pepper spray was used to safely gain compliance of uncooperative individuals during an arrest, then it was an acceptable use... However, if pepper spray was used because the arresting officers wanted to inflict pain on protesters during the arrest, it is completely unacceptable...
In conclusion, pepper spraying of "non-violent" protesters, in and of itself, is neither acceptable nor unacceptable without knowing the reason for pepper spray usage, and from that reason, it can be determined the acceptability of the usage...
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this shit makes me wish we could do something about horriblestuff like this, but sadly we cannot and these fuckers will probably just get a slap on the wrist as if nothing happened. such a fucking joke.
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On November 22 2011 07:07 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 05:59 RoosterSamurai wrote:On November 22 2011 05:57 SupLilSon wrote:On November 22 2011 05:46 RoosterSamurai wrote:On November 22 2011 05:42 KinosJourney2 wrote:
Disgusting how people employed to protect peaceful civilians do the opposite of what they are supposed to do.
What retard policeman had the idea to pepperspray people not posing a threat?
People like these should be fired and beaten to death in my opinion. How is firing them and beating them to death any better than them pepper spraying people in the face? Because when you sign up to be a police officer you take on certain responsibilities and duties. Among those are protecting and serving your community. These cops have shown a complete disregard for the safety and well being of the people they swore to protect. I honestly don't care about the legality of the protests, as long as they weren't violent there is NO reason to employ weapons against them. Not to mention the way the police used the spray was clearly in an attempt to inflict harm and pain, otherwise you wouldn't be spraying kids down the mouth and from 2 feet away. Ok....I don't disagree with you, but you completely side-stepped my question. Not that I actually expected someone to try to answer it..It should be universally obvious that beating someone to death is a bit worse than spraying them with pepper spray. Yea I didn't say that I agree with you on that. Obviously pepper spray is not the deadliest weapon police can employ but if the police deem it necessary to use that on seemingly docile college students then I have to disagree with their policy. Police should have every right to carry guns, they absolutely need these weapons to effectively do their job. They should also have the authority to make calls on what measure of force is necessary as it is them who are truly experts. But I just don't see how their actions are justified here.
nicely said, sir
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There was a huge rally today regarding the incident that took place last friday. There were many students at the rally, possibly +1000 in numbers (not sure of the exact number). It was a beautiful sight. Expect more information/news as the day goes on..the rally started at 12:00 and I left at around 2:00
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On November 22 2011 07:08 nttea wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 05:46 RoosterSamurai wrote:On November 22 2011 05:42 KinosJourney2 wrote:
Disgusting how people employed to protect peaceful civilians do the opposite of what they are supposed to do.
What retard policeman had the idea to pepperspray people not posing a threat?
People like these should be fired and beaten to death in my opinion. How is firing them and beating them to death any better than them pepper spraying people in the face? well... it would be self defence or at least retaliation, not unprovoked violence against people not posing any threat. i didn't read more than first page of this but the responses disgusted me too much to continue... How can people defend the police doing this? it's what you would expect in soviet russia.
It's almost commonplace here in the US. At my school a police officer got caught on film beating a student for nothing. The kid's grandpa turned out to be a retired judge. My sophomore year on Halloween I saw seen officers beating a group of black males with their nightsticks after knocking them to the ground. I'm sure they had a reason but the way the cops attacked them I'd be surprised if one of them wasn't hospitalized. Its really scary sometimes.
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On November 22 2011 07:02 domovoi wrote:
That's probably untrue (it would depend on where you live), but it has nothing to do with my point. It is absolutely true that the average Asian is richer than the average American, as is the average white person. As an Asian, I have no problem with that, but in the context of OWS protests at universities, why the fuck do the protesters find it necessary to aggravate campus police? This isn't an isolated incident either, you're seeing it all over the country. And popular support for the movement is decreasing because of this image problem.
When the Tea Party was protesting, you didn't see any of this bullshit. And they were able to turn their movement into political power. It's really fucking sad that the OWS is too stupid to mimic their success, because for all the Tea Party's success, it's been a fucking a disaster for everyone else.
Overall, yes asian americans are more wealthier than the average american. However, in your other post you state that it is the rich kids harassing the officers, when in fact it is the ones who are struggling who are protesting. The UC system has seen an increased enrollment from low income families the past few years. Some students that go to UC Davis are not from rich families, and in fact, some go there because it's closer to Sacramento where their families are.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37120 Posts
....... I'm a little nauseous from all the pics...... this is horrible :[
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On November 22 2011 07:24 Pleiades wrote:
However, in your other post you state that it is the rich kids harassing the officers, when in fact it is the ones who are struggling who are protesting.
Again, given all we know about the demographics of OWS protesters, university students, white students, etc., they are more likely be rich than not. From a world income perspective, they are most certainly rich. The more important point, however, is that Americans tend to view university students as privileged and police officers as working class. Watching students around the country continue to aggravate campus police only alienates Americans, and that will make OWS utterly irrelevant come election time, which is a fucking travesty given all the energy expended. OWS protesters are too enthralled by their anti-establishment delusions to realize this, however.
The UC system has seen an increased enrollment from low income families the past few years. Some students that go to UC Davis are not from rich families, and in fact, some go there because it's closer to Sacramento where their families are.
Sacramento has a pretty high median household income.
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On November 22 2011 07:33 domovoi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 07:24 Pleiades wrote:
However, in your other post you state that it is the rich kids harassing the officers, when in fact it is the ones who are struggling who are protesting. Again, given all we know about the demographics of OWS protesters, university students, white students, etc., they are more likely be rich than not. From a world income perspective, they are most certainly rich. The more important point, however, is that Americans tend to view university students as privileged and police officers as working class. Watching students around the country continue to aggravate campus police only alienates Americans, and that will make OWS utterly irrelevant come election time, which is a fucking travesty given all the energy expended. OWS protesters are too enthralled by their anti-establishment delusions to realize this, however. Show nested quote +The UC system has seen an increased enrollment from low income families the past few years. Some students that go to UC Davis are not from rich families, and in fact, some go there because it's closer to Sacramento where their families are. Sacramento has a pretty high median household income.
I don't think it matters how much money their families have or their ethnicity. They are active in a movement that has no direct outcome on their current situation. They are:
A. College students who work in campus restaurants/odd jobs while having student loans/scholarships to pay for their tuition.
B. Kids from more fortunate (hard working) households who are actually protesting against themselves.
This movement is a dump, if you're bitching about how much money you are going to make then; work harder, become a criminal, or keep protesting while other people advance their lives and you continue being the 99%
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This was not an urgent issue to remove these kids. An on-site decision to pepper spray them was unnessesary. If the decision was called in downtown, and agreed upon, then it would be a different story. This is an example of how a quick rash decision is often influenced by emotion.
There is a reason police have to follow protocol on everything, why was there no protocol for this instance (non-urgent arrests need to be made on a group of protesters).
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EPT
