I am currently a sophomore at UC Davis and I feel as though this is a topic that needs to be discussed. The last topic on this subject was closed so I will attempt to make this a much better thread.
**Updates** A rally was held at UC Davis on Monday, November 21st. During the student-run rally, onlookers were instructed to provide visual cues to the speakers to voice their opinions on the important issues. A few propositions were made and voted upon by approximately 1000 people, students and faculty. The major proposition was to hold a general strike against the University of California Regents and only 3 people voted against in a group of more than a thousand people. The general strike was held, but with a relatively small showing.
What Happened: UC Davis students part of the #Occupy movement had set up tents on the main quad and refused to leave their 'campsite'. The main protest involved discontent with rising costs of education which are set to increase by 81% by 2015-2016. It is interesting to note that tuition in 2005 was ~$5357. Currently it stands at ~$12,192 and according to the proposed plan, it will rise to ~$22,068.
Location:
University of California Davis Chancellor Linda Katehi ordered the UC Davis police to remove the students from the premises for violating California Penal Code Section 647 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/647.html). The persons can be taken into protective custody ie. moved, with acceptable force as if the person had committed a misdemeanor offense.
The police arrived at the scene and told all the students to remove their tents to which most students complied. However, a group of ten students stood their ground on the sidewalk and sat, refusing to move as a form of non-violent protest.
What Happened Next:
Pictures:
Aftermath: 10 students were arrested after allegedly being beaten and sprayed with pepper spray. One student was coughing up blood for 45 minutes following the incident and many were left in tears. One police officer can be heard saying, "Why don't you fight?" to one of the non-violent student protesters.
My Opinion: The law is clear. What the students were doing was illegal and the students were violating the law. I personally believe the penal code represses some of the basic freedoms that are granted to all Americans in the Bill of Rights, but the fact remains that the students were violating the law. The question is not whether or not the students should have been arrested, but rather how it should have been done. The goal of the police officers was to remove the students from the area and arrest them. I am of the opinion that it should not be very difficult to arrest peaceful, non-violent protesters. By definition, they will not oppose you. What does the pepper spray accomplish? I just don't understand why it was used. Can someone explain to me how it helped accomplish the goal of removing the protesters from the premises? I would go as far as to categorize that as cruel and unusual punishment. Micronesia stated it the best, all that needed to be done was to take the protesters, one by one, and arrest them individually. The result? No backlash, no nothing, just a small news story on local newspapers detailing how some protesters were arrested. You don't see UC Berkeley protests making the CNN front page, do you? I believe the outrage is warranted and justified. The pepper spray accomplished nothing except hurting the students and was completely unnecessary.
In the first video, you can see them moving tents. Not sure if they're moving to set them up or remove them, and hard to tell the time difference from the skip in the video. You see the cops starting to make their way to the camp.
The second video shows the formation of the students interlocking arms and some policemen talking to them.
The third video is when they get pepper sprayed and the police are retreating after arresting some people.
The fourth video shows students and faculty assisting those who have been pepper sprayed.
Please discuss this matter appropriately and with respect for all people involved.
On November 21 2011 13:40 Sufficiency wrote: I think what the police did was acceptable for removing people violating California Penal Code Section 647.
Yeah the letter isn't saying that what the police did was wrong he was saying that the Chancellor shouldn't have called in the police to disrupt the non-violent protest.
I still don't know how I feel about this Occupy movement...
In all honesty, follow the law. If you want to protest or demonstrate, get the proper permits to do so. I completely understand the rising tuition costs as my schools board of trustees just voted to up our tuition 40% over the next 5 years, but if sitting in a line isn't going to fix the problem, e-mails, talking to representatives and school leaders is how its going to get fixed.
Commend the OP being impartial in his post. But one thing to keep in mid, police in general, isn't using force because they want to, because it's part of their JOB. Same thing can be said to the student protesters, they should know the dangers in doing this. And to the general public such as us, obviously we will be outraged by the actions taken by the enforcers. But we need to have a clear mind when assessing the situation. Both parties are doing what they think is right, give commendation to the protesters who are still doing it, but at the same time, general public shouldn't look the wrong way when assessing what the police are doing.
BTW, Im a graduate student in Berkeley, (Berkeley Occupation)
The students are protesting the rise in tuition. Students who attend college will find that after they graduate they're heavily in debt. This entire situation escalated to a point it didn't need to. I don't believe the problem lies in the one police officer who was ordered to mace the peacefully demonstrating students, the police told the students they would mace them and gave them a fair warning before doing so. The point is the police claimed they felt threatened which they said warranted the use of mace, I don't see how a couple of students sitting down peacefully can be seen as an intimidation.
On November 21 2011 13:40 Sufficiency wrote: I think what the police did was acceptable for removing people violating California Penal Code Section 647.
Yeah the letter isn't saying that what the police did was wrong he was saying that the Chancellor shouldn't have called in the police to disrupt the non-violent protest.
I still don't know how I feel about this Occupy movement...
When there is a strike, you give the union and the employer time to negotiate; after a certain amount of time is passed, the government usually legislate the people on strike to go back to work. It's a matter of balance of power.
These demonstrations should be considered this way, too. If nothing can be reached, then something needs to be done so people can get on their normal lives.
On November 21 2011 13:47 sesmc wrote: Commend the OP being impartial in his post. But one thing to keep in mid, police in general, isn't using force because they want to, because it's part of their JOB. Same thing can be said to the student protesters, they should know the dangers in doing this. And to the general public such as us, obviously we will be outraged by the actions taken by the enforcers. But we need to have a clear mind when assessing the situation. Both parties are doing what they think is right, give commendation to the protesters who are still doing it, but at the same time, general public shouldn't look the wrong way when assessing what the police are doing.
BTW, Im a graduate student in Berkeley, (Berkeley Occupation)
This. I can't imagine the police did not give warnings before executing these "brutalities".
In the first video, you can see them moving tents. Not sure if they're moving to set them up or remove them, and hard to tell the time difference from the skip in the video. You see the cops starting to make their way to the camp.
The second video shows the formation of the students interlocking arms and some policemen talking to them.
The third video is when they get pepper sprayed and the police were retreating after arresting some people.
The fourth video shows students and faculty assisting those who have been pepper sprayed.
seems appropriate to me. police told students to move, they didn't, police used non violent measures to remove them. too many of these OWS protesters are just DYING for the police to do anything just so they can all start screaming and crying about police brutality, as if police are part of the (vaguely defined) problem they are protesting. the police are just doing their jobs. i bet almost every single officer would rather be doing his normal job, patrolling and what not rather than have to forcibly remove these idiots.
1) College is expensive, and some students rightfully want to go to class. 2) Students protesting on that pathway are blocking students from going to class. 3) Students won't move as requested; students are warned but don't move. Result: Students are sprayed. Notice how the reason for which they were protesting isn't even important? It just matters that they were doing something totally and obviously wrong by loitering in a pathway, and they knew it too in order to prove a point. If they can't take the consequences they should think first.
Hmm, watched the video. Clearly they had to use some sort of force in order to remove the students, since that was their job.... but was the pepper spray really necessary? I mean, honestly, it's a bunch of unarmed college students, lol. How "threatening" can they be?
That being said the police didn't seem to be violent and I didn't see any "beating" in the video.
On November 21 2011 13:40 Sufficiency wrote: I think what the police did was acceptable for removing people violating California Penal Code Section 647.
I'm sorry, but when did pepperspray, riot shields, and batons become acceptable methods of removing people who are peacefully sitting down. Pepper spray was meant as a detterent for someone being violent or threathening to you. Riot shields are for protection against blunt force and projectiles. And batons are bashing people on the head. Where is the moral justifications of using any of these on people sitting down. Police brutality is getting out of hand.
At least this isn't like the 60s where National Guardsmen fired upon students with lethal force (Kent State Massacare). That doesn't make this any better though.
If the students don't want tuition costs to raise continually every year, then they need to remove guaranteed student loans, which means not everyone will be able to go to college. Or the government could instate price controls which would mean the education they get becomes shittier. Effectively the protesters won't be able to have their cake and eat it too.
If the college is private property, I think the police could have beat the shit out of the protesters, just like if someone was occupying my front yard, there would be an ass beating waiting. Also, anyone who thinks peaceful protests accomplish anything is fooling themself. Violence is the only thing that works, peaceful protests that work are usually just an illusion for a coup detat.
I'm not sure if pepper spray was correct in this instance, although I can't see any other way for the police to move the students barring physically accosting them. I agree with what the students are arguing for but they definitely could have found a better method.
On November 21 2011 13:54 YoureFired wrote: I'm not sure if pepper spray was correct in this instance, although I can't see any other way for the police to move the students barring physically accosting them. I agree with what the students are arguing for but they definitely could have found a better method.
Well, I mean, physically moving someone is a given. They aren't gonna be asked to get up and leave. But I mean, come on, couldn't they just have just handcuffed all of them at once (they were in a chain), make them stand up and leave. Do you really have to resort to pepper spraying someone when you are a phsyically fit Police Officer who can probably take on a full grown man any day.
perhaps there is a Police officer (active or retired) on Teamliquid that can give some insight into this?
On November 21 2011 13:50 Pleiades wrote: In the first video, you can see them moving tents. Not sure if they're moving to set them up or remove them, and hard to tell the time difference from the skip in the video. You see the cops starting to make their way to the camp.
The second video shows the formation of the students interlocking arms and some policemen talking to them.
The third video is when they get pepper sprayed and the police are retreating after arresting some people.
The fourth video shows students and faculty assisting those who have been pepper sprayed.
Can someone explain what the main nuisance was? In the OP it says they were camping in the main quadrangle. Were they actively disrupting the functioning of the University?
Bare in mind Universities normally have some sort of protest on campus at any point in time. Everyday I went to Uni I had to avoid being accosted by people trying to shove pamphlets and other crap in my face.
I guess there are health issues with people actually living there but it seems a drastic reaction to call in the police.
What did these children think would happen? Im so glad they got what was coming to them. Obviously Steve Jobs/Bill Gates didn't make their fortune circle jerking on the campus. If the kids could do 1/100 of what our rich do for us they would all be loaded; But they cant, they're to stupid. They don't have to work do they? People should work for them and they should get the money right? But in all honestly, i haven't had as good a laugh in a long time as these videos gave me, Thanks. EDIT: Also it was MACE, not pepper spray, which makes it even funnier.
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