On November 21 2011 13:58 nohbrows wrote: Do you really have to resort to pepper spraying someone when you are a phsyically fit Police Officer who can probably take on a full grown man any day.
perhaps there is a Police officer (active or retired) on Teamliquid that can give some insight into this?
What do you suggest they do? I mean, you ask them to not use violence... how else do you move someone who is sitting down and refusing arrest? You're outnumbered 5 to 1, yet YOU are the one expected to not use violence, while still doing your job of arresting the person who is violating the law (yes, that is a blatant violation of the law to sit there).
At the same time, you know that if you so much as TOUCH a person who scream, it will be all over the internet in youtube videos and you will be required to go on administrative leave during an investigation where you MIGHT lose your job because of political reasons.
And pepper spray is the wrong way to handle it? What do you protestors propose police officers do to move your dumb asses out of the rest of our way? Go protest somewhere that isn't completely disruptive to the rest of us, and you won't have these problems. Believe it or not, there is not outrage amongst the general population for these things. It's just your .5% of your supposed 99% who actually care.
Grabbing them, pulling them apart, and cuffing them.
Nobody on youtube would crucify a cop for that.
It's the videos where cops take a 18 year old girl and smash them into a curb or a phone pole that gets the millions of views.
On November 21 2011 14:18 micronesia wrote: The thing that confuses me is why the police sprayed the protesters. If the police have justification to spray them, they also have justification to arrest them, right? If so, arrest them. Have the spray on hand in case the protesters do something that justifies getting sprayed (like get threatening/violent). In the meantime, start arresting the students on by one for violating the law.
The systematic spraying of students with harmful chemicals... when all the students are doing is sitting on the sidewalk, seems like blatant incompetence of the police to me.
Yeah.
They were arm locked, but for fuck sake, they are grown police officers, they can pry two college students apart and cuff them, but they are so lazy they have to pull out the chemicals =/
If they had the patience, the officers could just wait till someone needs to pee, or eat, or has a really bad itch
But why call the police in the first place? Surely the hassle of having to deal with the protesters is more than just ignoring them. Like I said earlier, every Uni has protests all the time. Why is this one special?
On November 21 2011 13:58 nohbrows wrote: Do you really have to resort to pepper spraying someone when you are a phsyically fit Police Officer who can probably take on a full grown man any day.
perhaps there is a Police officer (active or retired) on Teamliquid that can give some insight into this?
What do you suggest they do? I mean, you ask them to not use violence... how else do you move someone who is sitting down and refusing arrest? You're outnumbered 5 to 1, yet YOU are the one expected to not use violence, while still doing your job of arresting the person who is violating the law (yes, that is a blatant violation of the law to sit there).
At the same time, you know that if you so much as TOUCH a person who scream, it will be all over the internet in youtube videos and you will be required to go on administrative leave during an investigation where you MIGHT lose your job because of political reasons.
And pepper spray is the wrong way to handle it? What do you protestors propose police officers do to move your dumb asses out of the rest of our way? Go protest somewhere that isn't completely disruptive to the rest of us, and you won't have these problems. Believe it or not, there is not outrage amongst the general population for these things. It's just your .5% of your supposed 99% who actually care.
Right, if you so much as touch someone they'll scream. So you better use pepper spray, that's definitely a lot more mild! In fact, maybe we should shoot people who are sitting there! That's the best way to move them!
Is a protest actually THAT disruptive to your way of life, btw? I'm just wondering . . . lol
On November 21 2011 13:58 nohbrows wrote: Do you really have to resort to pepper spraying someone when you are a phsyically fit Police Officer who can probably take on a full grown man any day.
perhaps there is a Police officer (active or retired) on Teamliquid that can give some insight into this?
What do you suggest they do? I mean, you ask them to not use violence... how else do you move someone who is sitting down and refusing arrest? You're outnumbered 5 to 1, yet YOU are the one expected to not use violence, while still doing your job of arresting the person who is violating the law (yes, that is a blatant violation of the law to sit there).
At the same time, you know that if you so much as TOUCH a person who scream, it will be all over the internet in youtube videos and you will be required to go on administrative leave during an investigation where you MIGHT lose your job because of political reasons.
And pepper spray is the wrong way to handle it? What do you protestors propose police officers do to move your dumb asses out of the rest of our way? Go protest somewhere that isn't completely disruptive to the rest of us, and you won't have these problems.
A few police officers go up to the person on the end. They tell the student they are under arrest and instruct him/her to put their hands on their <whatever>. If the person refuses, the 3-4 officers carefully remove the student from the 'chain' and then carefully move the hands together, and carefully handcuff the student. The student is escorted away once cuffed. Repeat the cycle with the next student. If students wise up and start leaving the chain they are allowed to flee unless they have been notified they are under arrest.
If a student reacts to the arrests in a threatening way, the spray or other equipment can be used then. No reason to jump the gun.
This is a fucking disgrace. I can't believe there isn't more outrage over this. OWS will only grow now. Solidarity with OWS, as more and more people are abused around the country.
Right, if you so much as touch someone they'll scream. So you better use pepper spray, that's definitely a lot more mild! In fact, maybe we should shoot people who are sitting there! That's the best way to move them!
Is a protest actually THAT disruptive to your way of life, btw? I'm just wondering . . . lol
1. Have you ever attempted to take someone into custody who is resisting? Just curious, since you seem to know soooo much about this... It's not as easy to do it without injuring someone as you might think.
2. Yes, it's disruptive to my life. And you're not convincing people to join you by crying about police brutality. This isn't some dictatorship where the police are some rogue oppressors. In the US, they are just normal people doing their job and everyone else knows that. You guys aren't even protesting anything related to the police. Crying wolf just looks stupid to the rest of us.
Was I the only one throwing punches in the air aimed at the one cop's face who's just standing there trying to block the cameras from recording the horrific acts of these people we pay to "serve and protect" WHO THE FUCK ARE THEY PROTECTING BY DOING THIS HOW MANY TAX DOLLARS WERE WASTED TO ATTACK THESE KIDS SITTING DOWN IN A CIRCLE??!?!
On November 21 2011 14:18 micronesia wrote: The thing that confuses me is why the police sprayed the protesters. If the police have justification to spray them, they also have justification to arrest them, right? If so, arrest them. Have the spray on hand in case the protesters do something that justifies getting sprayed (like get threatening/violent). In the meantime, start arresting the students on by one for violating the law.
The systematic spraying of students with harmful chemicals... when all the students are doing is sitting on the sidewalk, seems like blatant incompetence of the police to me.
Yeah.
They were arm locked, but for fuck sake, they are grown police officers, they can pry two college students apart and cuff them, but they are so lazy they have to pull out the chemicals =/
and risk a police brutality suit? yeah right, lol.....
I'm sorry, but prying apart vs spraying pepper spray? Which of those actions seem more brutal to you? Quite frankly, by spraying them, they escalated the situation. Wheras pry apart and hand-cuff is pretty low-key. If they resist arrest, then you have more leaverage to escalate force. But c'mon, 10 students sitting on the grass, and the cops are afraid to touch them? Spraying just seems malicious. They weren't trying to attack the police and they weren't even arresting arrest.
It's really obvious that many universities in America are driven by greed from the very top. Ever since the government instituted a resolution to formally back loans for all students who are accepted into a university, the universities have hiked up the prices consecutively, year after year. I myself am over $100,000 in debt because I elected to get an undergraduate education at a state university, and I feel the pain of these students who undoubtedly have to pay much more to get a full education at Davis. It's a bullshit system, and the people at the top are getting rich off of us. Protests like these are absolutely necessary, these poor kids shouldn't have to worry about their physical safety over it.
Also, these officers committed felony assault. How can you tell? Because if YOU went up to somebody peacefully protesting under their first amendment rights, and pepper sprayed them in the face, YOU would be arrested for felony assault. The police are not above the law, and the people in this thread who are trying to defend their actions are clearly misinformed on the situation and I doubt you've done anything besides watch the video. Put some god damn effort into your opinions, you're part of the team liquid community, start acting like it!
My main problem with this incident is not whether they deserved to be arrested, but in the manner they were arrested. From the various youtube videos I have watched in different angles, I've spotted one officer trying to move or arrest a student by grabbing his arm, but that officer couldn't since they were interlocking their arms. However, it happened once, maybe at best twice. Even then, they weren't really aggressively trying to arrest them. If they tried multiple times trying to separate them and arrest them, but failed, I would of understood the use of the pepper spray more. To me it just looked like they chose an easier way to arrest them.
Pepper spray is mainly used for defensive purposes, but it has been used to detain people who are resisting arrest.
On November 21 2011 13:51 AlmightyJoker wrote: seems appropriate to me. police told students to move, they didn't, police used non violent measures to remove them. too many of these OWS protesters are just DYING for the police to do anything just so they can all start screaming and crying about police brutality, as if police are part of the (vaguely defined) problem they are protesting. the police are just doing their jobs. i bet almost every single officer would rather be doing his normal job, patrolling and what not rather than have to forcibly remove these idiots.
I'm sorry but are you brain dead? in what world is it considered "appropriate" or "non violent" measure to pepper spray a group of students protesting the rise in school tuition that are doing nothing more then sitting in front of a group of officers? The police are not just "doing their jobs". Police are supposed to protect the peace and I don't understand HOW THE FUCK you could ever fathom that this is nothing short of police brutality.
Right, if you so much as touch someone they'll scream. So you better use pepper spray, that's definitely a lot more mild! In fact, maybe we should shoot people who are sitting there! That's the best way to move them!
Is a protest actually THAT disruptive to your way of life, btw? I'm just wondering . . . lol
1. Have you ever attempted to take someone into custody who is resisting? Just curious, since you seem to know soooo much about this... It's not as easy to do it without injuring someone as you might think.
2. Yes, it's disruptive to my life. And you're not convincing people to join you by crying about police brutality. This isn't some dictatorship where the police are some rogue oppressors. In the US, they are just normal people doing their job and everyone else knows that. You guys aren't even protesting anything related to the police. Crying wolf just looks stupid to the rest of us.
How exactly was this disruptive? No-one seems to be able to explain why the police were needed in the first place. Protest are a continuous presence on University campus. The only problem seems to be that students might have had to deal with the inconvenience of taking a different route to class. Is that worth pepper-spray?
Yes, the police are normal people doing their job, but they are supposed to be trained to deal with these situations in a reasonable manner. This is not reasonable. The goals of the protest has nothing to do with the way the police responded.
On November 21 2011 14:18 micronesia wrote: The thing that confuses me is why the police sprayed the protesters. If the police have justification to spray them, they also have justification to arrest them, right? If so, arrest them. Have the spray on hand in case the protesters do something that justifies getting sprayed (like get threatening/violent). In the meantime, start arresting the students on by one for violating the law.
The systematic spraying of students with harmful chemicals... when all the students are doing is sitting on the sidewalk, seems like blatant incompetence of the police to me.
Yeah.
They were arm locked, but for fuck sake, they are grown police officers, they can pry two college students apart and cuff them, but they are so lazy they have to pull out the chemicals =/
and risk a police brutality suit? yeah right, lol.....
No. We would prefer to be pre-emptively be shot in the face because in the future they might attack the police /end sarcasm. Why is one overkill method supposd to be replaced by another?
The police didn't even get as far as that individual where he was actually resisting arrest at the top of the aisle. Not even similar circumstances.
Do you seriously not see the difference between someone resisting arrest versus people simply sitting on the ground? The police in UCD didn't even ATTEMPT to arrest anyone in a manner similar to what micronesia suggested before pepper spraying everybody.
It is so frustrating to argue with you, so I'll just stop, maybe you'll stop posting as well. Look at how many people are arguing with your posts and take a minute to just think about what you're posting . . .
On November 21 2011 13:51 AlmightyJoker wrote: seems appropriate to me. police told students to move, they didn't, police used non violent measures to remove them. too many of these OWS protesters are just DYING for the police to do anything just so they can all start screaming and crying about police brutality, as if police are part of the (vaguely defined) problem they are protesting. the police are just doing their jobs. i bet almost every single officer would rather be doing his normal job, patrolling and what not rather than have to forcibly remove these idiots.
I'm sorry but are you brain dead? in what world is it considered "appropriate" or "non violent" measure to pepper spray a group of students protesting the rise in school tuition that are doing nothing more then sitting in front of a group of officers? The police are not just "doing their jobs". Police are supposed to protect the peace and I don't understand HOW THE FUCK you could ever fathom that this is nothing short of police brutality.
No need to insult people here. It is a heated topic but please keep it civil.
It's funny how when the police tase or spray idiots being belligerent after being pulled over by a cop, people think "Thank god that idiot got tased!" But when a bunch of dumb kids get pepper sprayed, oh boy is that so very wrong! Also, they were sprayed because they were resisting arrest. Resisting arrest=tase on most days, spray against protesters since they are so very special.
On November 21 2011 14:39 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: It's funny how when the police tase or spray idiots being belligerent after being pulled over by a cop, people think "Thank god that idiot got tased!" But when a bunch of dumb kids get pepper sprayed, oh boy is that so very wrong! Also, they were sprayed because they were resisting arrest. Resisting arrest=tase on most days, spray against protesters since they are so very special.
Resisting arrest over something that is not a crime is NOT the same as resisting arrest over something that is. Everybody needs to read the details before posting, this thread is mind numbing
EPT
