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On July 13 2012 15:48 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 13:31 shawster wrote:On July 13 2012 13:27 Whitewing wrote:On July 13 2012 12:05 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 13 2012 11:45 Tewks44 wrote:
I think part of the blame should be on the U.S.'s insane worship of Football. This was obviously covered up due to Sandusky's status as the football coach. In the U.S. we don't only enjoy football, we idolize it and revere it with religious intensity. As a non-football fan it's very annoying. Undeniably. And Penn State football has been one of the most extreme examples of it, it really is cult-like there. I swear before all this, Paterno was viewed by most Penn State devotees as closer to a mythical figure than a man. College football though, it's just ugh, the whole institution already felt sort of icky but now it's gone over the edge. I don't really think I can watch it very much anymore without feeling really uneasy. And pro football, it's better but doesn't feel wholly right either (well and there's the fact that college football is its de-facto minor league so it's tied in as well). Football should adopt the baseball minor league format, rather than taking students from college. People who want to go pro in football would go play in the minor league for it. People shouldn't be going to college for something non-academic like sports, and taking scholarship money that should go to students there for academics. It would help with issues like this too. well in baseball there is collegiate base ball as well... theoretically the idea is alright, but in reality collegiate football is such a phenomenon in the U.S. that it'll probably never change. it took them 70 years to put in a damn play off system for god sakes. Collegiate baseball isn't for students who want a pro-career in baseball, that's what the minor leagues are for. People shouldn't be going to college (an institution for academics) on a football scholarship, taking money that could go to students there for academics, so they can get a job as a pro-football player which has no need for academics whatsoever.
A lot of MLB pros played college baseball (Barry Bonds, Stephan Strasburg, the list goes on and on.) You dont know much about college sports. These big colleges get millions of dollars from their football and basketball programs and dont have to pay the players. The school makes money off them, they dont take money from the school when they get a scholarship. And most players need to get a job after football and they do need college for that.
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On July 14 2012 05:10 TommyP wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 15:48 Whitewing wrote:On July 13 2012 13:31 shawster wrote:On July 13 2012 13:27 Whitewing wrote:On July 13 2012 12:05 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 13 2012 11:45 Tewks44 wrote:
I think part of the blame should be on the U.S.'s insane worship of Football. This was obviously covered up due to Sandusky's status as the football coach. In the U.S. we don't only enjoy football, we idolize it and revere it with religious intensity. As a non-football fan it's very annoying. Undeniably. And Penn State football has been one of the most extreme examples of it, it really is cult-like there. I swear before all this, Paterno was viewed by most Penn State devotees as closer to a mythical figure than a man. College football though, it's just ugh, the whole institution already felt sort of icky but now it's gone over the edge. I don't really think I can watch it very much anymore without feeling really uneasy. And pro football, it's better but doesn't feel wholly right either (well and there's the fact that college football is its de-facto minor league so it's tied in as well). Football should adopt the baseball minor league format, rather than taking students from college. People who want to go pro in football would go play in the minor league for it. People shouldn't be going to college for something non-academic like sports, and taking scholarship money that should go to students there for academics. It would help with issues like this too. well in baseball there is collegiate base ball as well... theoretically the idea is alright, but in reality collegiate football is such a phenomenon in the U.S. that it'll probably never change. it took them 70 years to put in a damn play off system for god sakes. Collegiate baseball isn't for students who want a pro-career in baseball, that's what the minor leagues are for. People shouldn't be going to college (an institution for academics) on a football scholarship, taking money that could go to students there for academics, so they can get a job as a pro-football player which has no need for academics whatsoever. A lot of MLB pros played college baseball (Barry Bonds, Stephan Strasburg, the list goes on and on.) You dont know much about college sports. These big colleges get millions of dollars from their football and basketball programs and dont have to pay the players. The school makes money off them, they dont take money from the school when they get a scholarship. And most players need to get a job after football and they do need college for that.
also, there is such a large pool of potential players that most colleges require you to be academically successful anyway. i knew a guy who was an awesome football player who didn't get shit for scholarships because his grades were abysmal. i knew another guy ON THE SAME TEAM who did get a scholarship and he was a 4.0 (maybe better) student.
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On July 13 2012 15:48 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 13:31 shawster wrote:On July 13 2012 13:27 Whitewing wrote:On July 13 2012 12:05 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 13 2012 11:45 Tewks44 wrote:
I think part of the blame should be on the U.S.'s insane worship of Football. This was obviously covered up due to Sandusky's status as the football coach. In the U.S. we don't only enjoy football, we idolize it and revere it with religious intensity. As a non-football fan it's very annoying. Undeniably. And Penn State football has been one of the most extreme examples of it, it really is cult-like there. I swear before all this, Paterno was viewed by most Penn State devotees as closer to a mythical figure than a man. College football though, it's just ugh, the whole institution already felt sort of icky but now it's gone over the edge. I don't really think I can watch it very much anymore without feeling really uneasy. And pro football, it's better but doesn't feel wholly right either (well and there's the fact that college football is its de-facto minor league so it's tied in as well). Football should adopt the baseball minor league format, rather than taking students from college. People who want to go pro in football would go play in the minor league for it. People shouldn't be going to college for something non-academic like sports, and taking scholarship money that should go to students there for academics. It would help with issues like this too. well in baseball there is collegiate base ball as well... theoretically the idea is alright, but in reality collegiate football is such a phenomenon in the U.S. that it'll probably never change. it took them 70 years to put in a damn play off system for god sakes. Collegiate baseball isn't for students who want a pro-career in baseball, that's what the minor leagues are for. People shouldn't be going to college (an institution for academics) on a football scholarship, taking money that could go to students there for academics, so they can get a job as a pro-football player which has no need for academics whatsoever.
That's pretty short-sighted of you. Many players shoot for an athletic scholarship because it is the only way they can get a college education coming from a poor background. The vast majority of college athletes never become professional athletes, especially at lower tier Division 1 schools. I think my Division 1 school sent, at most, 1 or 2 people to the NFL every year. Everybody else on the team has to get a real job, and guess what you need for that? A college education!
Whether you like it or not (you seem to not like sports), these athletic programs bring in a lot of money to the universities. There is corruption involved, but that is no different from any other area of society and needs to be treated on a case-by-case basis, not by turning the system on its head.
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United States7483 Posts
On July 14 2012 06:08 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 15:48 Whitewing wrote:On July 13 2012 13:31 shawster wrote:On July 13 2012 13:27 Whitewing wrote:On July 13 2012 12:05 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 13 2012 11:45 Tewks44 wrote:
I think part of the blame should be on the U.S.'s insane worship of Football. This was obviously covered up due to Sandusky's status as the football coach. In the U.S. we don't only enjoy football, we idolize it and revere it with religious intensity. As a non-football fan it's very annoying. Undeniably. And Penn State football has been one of the most extreme examples of it, it really is cult-like there. I swear before all this, Paterno was viewed by most Penn State devotees as closer to a mythical figure than a man. College football though, it's just ugh, the whole institution already felt sort of icky but now it's gone over the edge. I don't really think I can watch it very much anymore without feeling really uneasy. And pro football, it's better but doesn't feel wholly right either (well and there's the fact that college football is its de-facto minor league so it's tied in as well). Football should adopt the baseball minor league format, rather than taking students from college. People who want to go pro in football would go play in the minor league for it. People shouldn't be going to college for something non-academic like sports, and taking scholarship money that should go to students there for academics. It would help with issues like this too. well in baseball there is collegiate base ball as well... theoretically the idea is alright, but in reality collegiate football is such a phenomenon in the U.S. that it'll probably never change. it took them 70 years to put in a damn play off system for god sakes. Collegiate baseball isn't for students who want a pro-career in baseball, that's what the minor leagues are for. People shouldn't be going to college (an institution for academics) on a football scholarship, taking money that could go to students there for academics, so they can get a job as a pro-football player which has no need for academics whatsoever. That's pretty short-sighted of you. Many players shoot for an athletic scholarship because it is the only way they can get a college education coming from a poor background. The vast majority of college athletes never become professional athletes, especially at lower tier Division 1 schools. I think my Division 1 school sent, at most, 1 or 2 people to the NFL every year. Everybody else on the team has to get a real job, and guess what you need for that? A college education! Whether you like it or not (you seem to not like sports), these athletic programs bring in a lot of money to the universities. There is corruption involved, but that is no different from any other area of society and needs to be treated on a case-by-case basis, not by turning the system on its head.
I don't dislike sports, they're a good form of entertainment and promote healthy living for those not abusing steroids. I just don't see any academic value in them, and would prefer that they be kept separate from academic institutions.
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CA10828 Posts
On July 14 2012 10:43 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 06:08 ZasZ. wrote:On July 13 2012 15:48 Whitewing wrote:On July 13 2012 13:31 shawster wrote:On July 13 2012 13:27 Whitewing wrote:On July 13 2012 12:05 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 13 2012 11:45 Tewks44 wrote:
I think part of the blame should be on the U.S.'s insane worship of Football. This was obviously covered up due to Sandusky's status as the football coach. In the U.S. we don't only enjoy football, we idolize it and revere it with religious intensity. As a non-football fan it's very annoying. Undeniably. And Penn State football has been one of the most extreme examples of it, it really is cult-like there. I swear before all this, Paterno was viewed by most Penn State devotees as closer to a mythical figure than a man. College football though, it's just ugh, the whole institution already felt sort of icky but now it's gone over the edge. I don't really think I can watch it very much anymore without feeling really uneasy. And pro football, it's better but doesn't feel wholly right either (well and there's the fact that college football is its de-facto minor league so it's tied in as well). Football should adopt the baseball minor league format, rather than taking students from college. People who want to go pro in football would go play in the minor league for it. People shouldn't be going to college for something non-academic like sports, and taking scholarship money that should go to students there for academics. It would help with issues like this too. well in baseball there is collegiate base ball as well... theoretically the idea is alright, but in reality collegiate football is such a phenomenon in the U.S. that it'll probably never change. it took them 70 years to put in a damn play off system for god sakes. Collegiate baseball isn't for students who want a pro-career in baseball, that's what the minor leagues are for. People shouldn't be going to college (an institution for academics) on a football scholarship, taking money that could go to students there for academics, so they can get a job as a pro-football player which has no need for academics whatsoever. That's pretty short-sighted of you. Many players shoot for an athletic scholarship because it is the only way they can get a college education coming from a poor background. The vast majority of college athletes never become professional athletes, especially at lower tier Division 1 schools. I think my Division 1 school sent, at most, 1 or 2 people to the NFL every year. Everybody else on the team has to get a real job, and guess what you need for that? A college education! Whether you like it or not (you seem to not like sports), these athletic programs bring in a lot of money to the universities. There is corruption involved, but that is no different from any other area of society and needs to be treated on a case-by-case basis, not by turning the system on its head. I don't dislike sports, they're a good form of entertainment and promote healthy living for those not abusing steroids. I just don't see any academic value in them, and would prefer that they be kept separate from academic institutions.
you do realize that the athletic department's budget is completely separate from a university's academic budget, right? the revenue from the $$ sports (football and mens basketball) subsidizes all of the non-revenue sports such as tennis, baseball, track and field, and every womens sport. in the top tier football programs, coaching staff/AD salaries and starting player position scholarships are oftentimes endowed by wealthy donors/alumni so it really is no cost to the school.
more on topic, i honestly feel like the program should be dismantled for an equal amount of seasons as there are victims. it's honestly the most disgusting thing to come out of collegiate sports.
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On July 14 2012 10:43 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 06:08 ZasZ. wrote:On July 13 2012 15:48 Whitewing wrote:On July 13 2012 13:31 shawster wrote:On July 13 2012 13:27 Whitewing wrote:On July 13 2012 12:05 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 13 2012 11:45 Tewks44 wrote:
I think part of the blame should be on the U.S.'s insane worship of Football. This was obviously covered up due to Sandusky's status as the football coach. In the U.S. we don't only enjoy football, we idolize it and revere it with religious intensity. As a non-football fan it's very annoying. Undeniably. And Penn State football has been one of the most extreme examples of it, it really is cult-like there. I swear before all this, Paterno was viewed by most Penn State devotees as closer to a mythical figure than a man. College football though, it's just ugh, the whole institution already felt sort of icky but now it's gone over the edge. I don't really think I can watch it very much anymore without feeling really uneasy. And pro football, it's better but doesn't feel wholly right either (well and there's the fact that college football is its de-facto minor league so it's tied in as well). Football should adopt the baseball minor league format, rather than taking students from college. People who want to go pro in football would go play in the minor league for it. People shouldn't be going to college for something non-academic like sports, and taking scholarship money that should go to students there for academics. It would help with issues like this too. well in baseball there is collegiate base ball as well... theoretically the idea is alright, but in reality collegiate football is such a phenomenon in the U.S. that it'll probably never change. it took them 70 years to put in a damn play off system for god sakes. Collegiate baseball isn't for students who want a pro-career in baseball, that's what the minor leagues are for. People shouldn't be going to college (an institution for academics) on a football scholarship, taking money that could go to students there for academics, so they can get a job as a pro-football player which has no need for academics whatsoever. That's pretty short-sighted of you. Many players shoot for an athletic scholarship because it is the only way they can get a college education coming from a poor background. The vast majority of college athletes never become professional athletes, especially at lower tier Division 1 schools. I think my Division 1 school sent, at most, 1 or 2 people to the NFL every year. Everybody else on the team has to get a real job, and guess what you need for that? A college education! Whether you like it or not (you seem to not like sports), these athletic programs bring in a lot of money to the universities. There is corruption involved, but that is no different from any other area of society and needs to be treated on a case-by-case basis, not by turning the system on its head. I don't dislike sports, they're a good form of entertainment and promote healthy living for those not abusing steroids. I just don't see any academic value in them, and would prefer that they be kept separate from academic institutions.
Why?? So schools dont make money and good/hard working kids who only could go to college due to sports, would still be in the ghetto.
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On July 14 2012 10:58 LosingID8 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 10:43 Whitewing wrote:On July 14 2012 06:08 ZasZ. wrote:On July 13 2012 15:48 Whitewing wrote:On July 13 2012 13:31 shawster wrote:On July 13 2012 13:27 Whitewing wrote:On July 13 2012 12:05 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 13 2012 11:45 Tewks44 wrote:
I think part of the blame should be on the U.S.'s insane worship of Football. This was obviously covered up due to Sandusky's status as the football coach. In the U.S. we don't only enjoy football, we idolize it and revere it with religious intensity. As a non-football fan it's very annoying. Undeniably. And Penn State football has been one of the most extreme examples of it, it really is cult-like there. I swear before all this, Paterno was viewed by most Penn State devotees as closer to a mythical figure than a man. College football though, it's just ugh, the whole institution already felt sort of icky but now it's gone over the edge. I don't really think I can watch it very much anymore without feeling really uneasy. And pro football, it's better but doesn't feel wholly right either (well and there's the fact that college football is its de-facto minor league so it's tied in as well). Football should adopt the baseball minor league format, rather than taking students from college. People who want to go pro in football would go play in the minor league for it. People shouldn't be going to college for something non-academic like sports, and taking scholarship money that should go to students there for academics. It would help with issues like this too. well in baseball there is collegiate base ball as well... theoretically the idea is alright, but in reality collegiate football is such a phenomenon in the U.S. that it'll probably never change. it took them 70 years to put in a damn play off system for god sakes. Collegiate baseball isn't for students who want a pro-career in baseball, that's what the minor leagues are for. People shouldn't be going to college (an institution for academics) on a football scholarship, taking money that could go to students there for academics, so they can get a job as a pro-football player which has no need for academics whatsoever. That's pretty short-sighted of you. Many players shoot for an athletic scholarship because it is the only way they can get a college education coming from a poor background. The vast majority of college athletes never become professional athletes, especially at lower tier Division 1 schools. I think my Division 1 school sent, at most, 1 or 2 people to the NFL every year. Everybody else on the team has to get a real job, and guess what you need for that? A college education! Whether you like it or not (you seem to not like sports), these athletic programs bring in a lot of money to the universities. There is corruption involved, but that is no different from any other area of society and needs to be treated on a case-by-case basis, not by turning the system on its head. I don't dislike sports, they're a good form of entertainment and promote healthy living for those not abusing steroids. I just don't see any academic value in them, and would prefer that they be kept separate from academic institutions. you do realize that the athletic department's budget is completely separate from a university's academic budget, right? the revenue from the $$ sports (football and mens basketball) subsidizes all of the non-revenue sports such as tennis, baseball, track and field, and every womens sport. in the top tier football programs, coaching staff/AD salaries and starting player position scholarships are oftentimes endowed by wealthy donors/alumni so it really is no cost to the school. more on topic, i honestly feel like the program should be dismantled for an equal amount of seasons as there are victims. it's honestly the most disgusting thing to come out of collegiate sports.
I honestly dont think the NCAA will ever give the death penalty again unfortunately after what happened with SMU. Penn State football would never recover and that would affect the players and fans who had no part in the scandal. Nbody in the current staff on the football team or players were covering it up. They need to put the adminstrators that covered it up in jail and tear down the paterno statue. I wish they would not let them play football, but i dont think it will happen.
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CA10828 Posts
i agree it won't happen.
ideally presidents and ADs of the B1G get together and vote to kick out penn st from the conference. i know if it was a PAC-12 school that had committed this sort of thing i wouldn't want to be associated with that school in any way.
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United States7483 Posts
On July 14 2012 11:05 TommyP wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 10:43 Whitewing wrote:On July 14 2012 06:08 ZasZ. wrote:On July 13 2012 15:48 Whitewing wrote:On July 13 2012 13:31 shawster wrote:On July 13 2012 13:27 Whitewing wrote:On July 13 2012 12:05 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 13 2012 11:45 Tewks44 wrote:
I think part of the blame should be on the U.S.'s insane worship of Football. This was obviously covered up due to Sandusky's status as the football coach. In the U.S. we don't only enjoy football, we idolize it and revere it with religious intensity. As a non-football fan it's very annoying. Undeniably. And Penn State football has been one of the most extreme examples of it, it really is cult-like there. I swear before all this, Paterno was viewed by most Penn State devotees as closer to a mythical figure than a man. College football though, it's just ugh, the whole institution already felt sort of icky but now it's gone over the edge. I don't really think I can watch it very much anymore without feeling really uneasy. And pro football, it's better but doesn't feel wholly right either (well and there's the fact that college football is its de-facto minor league so it's tied in as well). Football should adopt the baseball minor league format, rather than taking students from college. People who want to go pro in football would go play in the minor league for it. People shouldn't be going to college for something non-academic like sports, and taking scholarship money that should go to students there for academics. It would help with issues like this too. well in baseball there is collegiate base ball as well... theoretically the idea is alright, but in reality collegiate football is such a phenomenon in the U.S. that it'll probably never change. it took them 70 years to put in a damn play off system for god sakes. Collegiate baseball isn't for students who want a pro-career in baseball, that's what the minor leagues are for. People shouldn't be going to college (an institution for academics) on a football scholarship, taking money that could go to students there for academics, so they can get a job as a pro-football player which has no need for academics whatsoever. That's pretty short-sighted of you. Many players shoot for an athletic scholarship because it is the only way they can get a college education coming from a poor background. The vast majority of college athletes never become professional athletes, especially at lower tier Division 1 schools. I think my Division 1 school sent, at most, 1 or 2 people to the NFL every year. Everybody else on the team has to get a real job, and guess what you need for that? A college education! Whether you like it or not (you seem to not like sports), these athletic programs bring in a lot of money to the universities. There is corruption involved, but that is no different from any other area of society and needs to be treated on a case-by-case basis, not by turning the system on its head. I don't dislike sports, they're a good form of entertainment and promote healthy living for those not abusing steroids. I just don't see any academic value in them, and would prefer that they be kept separate from academic institutions. Why?? So schools dont make money and good/hard working kids who only could go to college due to sports, would still be in the ghetto.
Why? Because of this absurd, ridiculous sports culture that dominates almost every academic institution in the country. You realize high school students get a day off from school to cheer for their football team? This culture is ridiculous, and it has to stop. Sports are valuable as a form of entertainment and as a good way for people to stay healthy, and that's pretty much it. They are raised up on this pedestal as if they're literally holy in this country. Shit like this asshole touching little kids and then having the staff cover for him happens because of this bullshit culture.
Good hardworking kids should be able to get into college without sports if they apply themselves to their academics. I know for a fact that many fantastic schools like Harvard only charge based on your ability to pay if you get into the school. If your issue is with them being able to afford it, then rather than emphasizing sports as a way for them to get into it, we should be working on making school more affordable for students who work hard on academics.
Our country is lagging behind so many others in terms of academics because we don't seem to value it. Maybe it's time that changed.
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On July 14 2012 12:24 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 11:05 TommyP wrote:On July 14 2012 10:43 Whitewing wrote:On July 14 2012 06:08 ZasZ. wrote:On July 13 2012 15:48 Whitewing wrote:On July 13 2012 13:31 shawster wrote:On July 13 2012 13:27 Whitewing wrote:On July 13 2012 12:05 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 13 2012 11:45 Tewks44 wrote:
I think part of the blame should be on the U.S.'s insane worship of Football. This was obviously covered up due to Sandusky's status as the football coach. In the U.S. we don't only enjoy football, we idolize it and revere it with religious intensity. As a non-football fan it's very annoying. Undeniably. And Penn State football has been one of the most extreme examples of it, it really is cult-like there. I swear before all this, Paterno was viewed by most Penn State devotees as closer to a mythical figure than a man. College football though, it's just ugh, the whole institution already felt sort of icky but now it's gone over the edge. I don't really think I can watch it very much anymore without feeling really uneasy. And pro football, it's better but doesn't feel wholly right either (well and there's the fact that college football is its de-facto minor league so it's tied in as well). Football should adopt the baseball minor league format, rather than taking students from college. People who want to go pro in football would go play in the minor league for it. People shouldn't be going to college for something non-academic like sports, and taking scholarship money that should go to students there for academics. It would help with issues like this too. well in baseball there is collegiate base ball as well... theoretically the idea is alright, but in reality collegiate football is such a phenomenon in the U.S. that it'll probably never change. it took them 70 years to put in a damn play off system for god sakes. Collegiate baseball isn't for students who want a pro-career in baseball, that's what the minor leagues are for. People shouldn't be going to college (an institution for academics) on a football scholarship, taking money that could go to students there for academics, so they can get a job as a pro-football player which has no need for academics whatsoever. That's pretty short-sighted of you. Many players shoot for an athletic scholarship because it is the only way they can get a college education coming from a poor background. The vast majority of college athletes never become professional athletes, especially at lower tier Division 1 schools. I think my Division 1 school sent, at most, 1 or 2 people to the NFL every year. Everybody else on the team has to get a real job, and guess what you need for that? A college education! Whether you like it or not (you seem to not like sports), these athletic programs bring in a lot of money to the universities. There is corruption involved, but that is no different from any other area of society and needs to be treated on a case-by-case basis, not by turning the system on its head. I don't dislike sports, they're a good form of entertainment and promote healthy living for those not abusing steroids. I just don't see any academic value in them, and would prefer that they be kept separate from academic institutions. Why?? So schools dont make money and good/hard working kids who only could go to college due to sports, would still be in the ghetto. Why? Because of this absurd, ridiculous sports culture that dominates almost every academic institution in the country. You realize high school students get a day off from school to cheer for their football team? This culture is ridiculous, and it has to stop. Sports are valuable as a form of entertainment and as a good way for people to stay healthy, and that's pretty much it. They are raised up on this pedestal as if they're literally holy in this country. Shit like this asshole touching little kids and then having the staff cover for him happens because of this bullshit culture. Good hardworking kids should be able to get into college without sports if they apply themselves to their academics. I know for a fact that many fantastic schools like Harvard only charge based on your ability to pay if you get into the school. If your issue is with them being able to afford it, then rather than emphasizing sports as a way for them to get into it, we should be working on making school more affordable for students who work hard on academics. Our country is lagging behind so many others in terms of academics because we don't seem to value it. Maybe it's time that changed.
Our country is lagging behind in everything except college. We have the best universities in the world. For every 1 great university in another country there are like 10 in america. Just because you dont like sports doesnt mean people dont. I dont think american culture had anything to do with a pedophile raping kids and his friends covering it up because they were afriad for their own selves and reputations.
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United States7483 Posts
On July 14 2012 12:46 TommyP wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 12:24 Whitewing wrote:On July 14 2012 11:05 TommyP wrote:On July 14 2012 10:43 Whitewing wrote:On July 14 2012 06:08 ZasZ. wrote:On July 13 2012 15:48 Whitewing wrote:On July 13 2012 13:31 shawster wrote:On July 13 2012 13:27 Whitewing wrote:On July 13 2012 12:05 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 13 2012 11:45 Tewks44 wrote:
I think part of the blame should be on the U.S.'s insane worship of Football. This was obviously covered up due to Sandusky's status as the football coach. In the U.S. we don't only enjoy football, we idolize it and revere it with religious intensity. As a non-football fan it's very annoying. Undeniably. And Penn State football has been one of the most extreme examples of it, it really is cult-like there. I swear before all this, Paterno was viewed by most Penn State devotees as closer to a mythical figure than a man. College football though, it's just ugh, the whole institution already felt sort of icky but now it's gone over the edge. I don't really think I can watch it very much anymore without feeling really uneasy. And pro football, it's better but doesn't feel wholly right either (well and there's the fact that college football is its de-facto minor league so it's tied in as well). Football should adopt the baseball minor league format, rather than taking students from college. People who want to go pro in football would go play in the minor league for it. People shouldn't be going to college for something non-academic like sports, and taking scholarship money that should go to students there for academics. It would help with issues like this too. well in baseball there is collegiate base ball as well... theoretically the idea is alright, but in reality collegiate football is such a phenomenon in the U.S. that it'll probably never change. it took them 70 years to put in a damn play off system for god sakes. Collegiate baseball isn't for students who want a pro-career in baseball, that's what the minor leagues are for. People shouldn't be going to college (an institution for academics) on a football scholarship, taking money that could go to students there for academics, so they can get a job as a pro-football player which has no need for academics whatsoever. That's pretty short-sighted of you. Many players shoot for an athletic scholarship because it is the only way they can get a college education coming from a poor background. The vast majority of college athletes never become professional athletes, especially at lower tier Division 1 schools. I think my Division 1 school sent, at most, 1 or 2 people to the NFL every year. Everybody else on the team has to get a real job, and guess what you need for that? A college education! Whether you like it or not (you seem to not like sports), these athletic programs bring in a lot of money to the universities. There is corruption involved, but that is no different from any other area of society and needs to be treated on a case-by-case basis, not by turning the system on its head. I don't dislike sports, they're a good form of entertainment and promote healthy living for those not abusing steroids. I just don't see any academic value in them, and would prefer that they be kept separate from academic institutions. Why?? So schools dont make money and good/hard working kids who only could go to college due to sports, would still be in the ghetto. Why? Because of this absurd, ridiculous sports culture that dominates almost every academic institution in the country. You realize high school students get a day off from school to cheer for their football team? This culture is ridiculous, and it has to stop. Sports are valuable as a form of entertainment and as a good way for people to stay healthy, and that's pretty much it. They are raised up on this pedestal as if they're literally holy in this country. Shit like this asshole touching little kids and then having the staff cover for him happens because of this bullshit culture. Good hardworking kids should be able to get into college without sports if they apply themselves to their academics. I know for a fact that many fantastic schools like Harvard only charge based on your ability to pay if you get into the school. If your issue is with them being able to afford it, then rather than emphasizing sports as a way for them to get into it, we should be working on making school more affordable for students who work hard on academics. Our country is lagging behind so many others in terms of academics because we don't seem to value it. Maybe it's time that changed. Our country is lagging behind in everything except college. We have the best universities in the world. For every 1 great university in another country there are like 10 in america. Just because you dont like sports doesnt mean people dont. I dont think american culture had anything to do with a pedophile raping kids and his friends covering it up because they were afriad for their own selves and reputations.
Our country has the best universities, but guess who these best universities are educating? If you guessed foreigners, you guessed right. Look at how many students in the United States graduate college with a degree in an actual academic subject (not visual or performing arts), like a STEM degree, or a management or social and behavioral science degree, or something else that's academic in nature. The majority of U.S. citizens who attend college attend for visual and performing arts, or a similar non academic subject. Why is that? Because our culture frowns on academics and academically inclined people. They're labeled as 'nerds' or 'geeks', while the sport jocks are 'popular'. There's nothing wrong with visual and performing arts degrees, but our culture is emphasizing things like entertainment and sports while not emphasizing actual academics, and it's becoming quite obvious when you start looking at the world economy, and areas of technological development (you might notice India has it's own silicon valley now, guess where those workers got their education?). This is not a winning combination in the long run, it's unsustainable and it's going to cause serious issues down the line. Yeah, I know, our consumerist culture tells you want things now and not give a shit about later, but this is a serious problem. Having the best universities is irrelevant when location has no real effect on who attends, these schools take the best students, and many of them aren't from the U.S. They might as well be located overseas.
Again, I don't hate sports, but I also don't raise it to this ridiculous level that it's fans seem to think it deserves (Yes, I watch sports too). Sports simply are not important, they're nice to have and fun, but they aren't important, and this absurd drive our culture has to promote sports constantly is ridiculous. It doesn't matter that people like it, I like Burger King, but I would never argue that it's a healthy thing. Just look at your average newspaper: how much of it is taken up by sports? How much of it is taken up by academics or academic achievements? I've lost track of the amount of times someone I know has earned a very impressive academic achievement and had nobody care (win the national science fair? High school math team win for the state? Ignored!), while the sports team does nothing out of the ordinary and gets 100 times the attention.
Why did the people higher up cover for Sandusky? Because he was valuable to their sports program. That's disgusting.
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On July 13 2012 15:20 Voltaire wrote:
American culture is way too focused on youth sports.
Lol, I wouldn't characterize college football as a "youth sport".
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On July 14 2012 12:24 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 11:05 TommyP wrote:On July 14 2012 10:43 Whitewing wrote:On July 14 2012 06:08 ZasZ. wrote:On July 13 2012 15:48 Whitewing wrote:On July 13 2012 13:31 shawster wrote:On July 13 2012 13:27 Whitewing wrote:On July 13 2012 12:05 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 13 2012 11:45 Tewks44 wrote:
I think part of the blame should be on the U.S.'s insane worship of Football. This was obviously covered up due to Sandusky's status as the football coach. In the U.S. we don't only enjoy football, we idolize it and revere it with religious intensity. As a non-football fan it's very annoying. Undeniably. And Penn State football has been one of the most extreme examples of it, it really is cult-like there. I swear before all this, Paterno was viewed by most Penn State devotees as closer to a mythical figure than a man. College football though, it's just ugh, the whole institution already felt sort of icky but now it's gone over the edge. I don't really think I can watch it very much anymore without feeling really uneasy. And pro football, it's better but doesn't feel wholly right either (well and there's the fact that college football is its de-facto minor league so it's tied in as well). Football should adopt the baseball minor league format, rather than taking students from college. People who want to go pro in football would go play in the minor league for it. People shouldn't be going to college for something non-academic like sports, and taking scholarship money that should go to students there for academics. It would help with issues like this too. well in baseball there is collegiate base ball as well... theoretically the idea is alright, but in reality collegiate football is such a phenomenon in the U.S. that it'll probably never change. it took them 70 years to put in a damn play off system for god sakes. Collegiate baseball isn't for students who want a pro-career in baseball, that's what the minor leagues are for. People shouldn't be going to college (an institution for academics) on a football scholarship, taking money that could go to students there for academics, so they can get a job as a pro-football player which has no need for academics whatsoever. That's pretty short-sighted of you. Many players shoot for an athletic scholarship because it is the only way they can get a college education coming from a poor background. The vast majority of college athletes never become professional athletes, especially at lower tier Division 1 schools. I think my Division 1 school sent, at most, 1 or 2 people to the NFL every year. Everybody else on the team has to get a real job, and guess what you need for that? A college education! Whether you like it or not (you seem to not like sports), these athletic programs bring in a lot of money to the universities. There is corruption involved, but that is no different from any other area of society and needs to be treated on a case-by-case basis, not by turning the system on its head. I don't dislike sports, they're a good form of entertainment and promote healthy living for those not abusing steroids. I just don't see any academic value in them, and would prefer that they be kept separate from academic institutions. Why?? So schools dont make money and good/hard working kids who only could go to college due to sports, would still be in the ghetto. Why? Because of this absurd, ridiculous sports culture that dominates almost every academic institution in the country. You realize high school students get a day off from school to cheer for their football team? This culture is ridiculous, and it has to stop. Sports are valuable as a form of entertainment and as a good way for people to stay healthy, and that's pretty much it. They are raised up on this pedestal as if they're literally holy in this country. Shit like this asshole touching little kids and then having the staff cover for him happens because of this bullshit culture. Good hardworking kids should be able to get into college without sports if they apply themselves to their academics. I know for a fact that many fantastic schools like Harvard only charge based on your ability to pay if you get into the school. If your issue is with them being able to afford it, then rather than emphasizing sports as a way for them to get into it, we should be working on making school more affordable for students who work hard on academics. Our country is lagging behind so many others in terms of academics because we don't seem to value it. Maybe it's time that changed.
You sound really defensive about this issue. I assume you didn't play many sports in high school. As was mentioned above, the revenue brought in by big name sports programs subisidizes the rest of the athletics for the school. The scholarships given to athletes could never be changed to academic sholarships, because that money wouldn't exist without the sports program. No kid has ever been denied a spot at a school because it was "stolen" by a recruited athlete.
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The newest Paterno ruthless Machiavellian turn (not that it was a big secret he was like that before):
Joe Paterno Won Sweeter Deal Even as Scandal Played Out
Basically, as he finds out the Sandusky investigation is going to happen in early 2011, he immediately begins talking of revisiting his contract and ends up negotiating to a contract option with a retirement package worth $5.5 million if 2011 is his last season. It's negotiated with Spanier, and only a few board members know of the new agreement, the full board only finds out when they fire him what they now owe him. The board of trustees is split on whether they should or need to honor the contract and the final decision seems to be yes, they do.
Also statue appears to be staying (and it seems like they are just hoping the contention about it dies down over time):
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/8166643/joe-paterno-statue-remain-penn-state-sources-say
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United States7483 Posts
On July 14 2012 13:57 Smat wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 12:24 Whitewing wrote:On July 14 2012 11:05 TommyP wrote:On July 14 2012 10:43 Whitewing wrote:On July 14 2012 06:08 ZasZ. wrote:On July 13 2012 15:48 Whitewing wrote:On July 13 2012 13:31 shawster wrote:On July 13 2012 13:27 Whitewing wrote:On July 13 2012 12:05 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 13 2012 11:45 Tewks44 wrote:
I think part of the blame should be on the U.S.'s insane worship of Football. This was obviously covered up due to Sandusky's status as the football coach. In the U.S. we don't only enjoy football, we idolize it and revere it with religious intensity. As a non-football fan it's very annoying. Undeniably. And Penn State football has been one of the most extreme examples of it, it really is cult-like there. I swear before all this, Paterno was viewed by most Penn State devotees as closer to a mythical figure than a man. College football though, it's just ugh, the whole institution already felt sort of icky but now it's gone over the edge. I don't really think I can watch it very much anymore without feeling really uneasy. And pro football, it's better but doesn't feel wholly right either (well and there's the fact that college football is its de-facto minor league so it's tied in as well). Football should adopt the baseball minor league format, rather than taking students from college. People who want to go pro in football would go play in the minor league for it. People shouldn't be going to college for something non-academic like sports, and taking scholarship money that should go to students there for academics. It would help with issues like this too. well in baseball there is collegiate base ball as well... theoretically the idea is alright, but in reality collegiate football is such a phenomenon in the U.S. that it'll probably never change. it took them 70 years to put in a damn play off system for god sakes. Collegiate baseball isn't for students who want a pro-career in baseball, that's what the minor leagues are for. People shouldn't be going to college (an institution for academics) on a football scholarship, taking money that could go to students there for academics, so they can get a job as a pro-football player which has no need for academics whatsoever. That's pretty short-sighted of you. Many players shoot for an athletic scholarship because it is the only way they can get a college education coming from a poor background. The vast majority of college athletes never become professional athletes, especially at lower tier Division 1 schools. I think my Division 1 school sent, at most, 1 or 2 people to the NFL every year. Everybody else on the team has to get a real job, and guess what you need for that? A college education! Whether you like it or not (you seem to not like sports), these athletic programs bring in a lot of money to the universities. There is corruption involved, but that is no different from any other area of society and needs to be treated on a case-by-case basis, not by turning the system on its head. I don't dislike sports, they're a good form of entertainment and promote healthy living for those not abusing steroids. I just don't see any academic value in them, and would prefer that they be kept separate from academic institutions. Why?? So schools dont make money and good/hard working kids who only could go to college due to sports, would still be in the ghetto. Why? Because of this absurd, ridiculous sports culture that dominates almost every academic institution in the country. You realize high school students get a day off from school to cheer for their football team? This culture is ridiculous, and it has to stop. Sports are valuable as a form of entertainment and as a good way for people to stay healthy, and that's pretty much it. They are raised up on this pedestal as if they're literally holy in this country. Shit like this asshole touching little kids and then having the staff cover for him happens because of this bullshit culture. Good hardworking kids should be able to get into college without sports if they apply themselves to their academics. I know for a fact that many fantastic schools like Harvard only charge based on your ability to pay if you get into the school. If your issue is with them being able to afford it, then rather than emphasizing sports as a way for them to get into it, we should be working on making school more affordable for students who work hard on academics. Our country is lagging behind so many others in terms of academics because we don't seem to value it. Maybe it's time that changed. You sound really defensive about this issue. I assume you didn't play many sports in high school. As was mentioned above, the revenue brought in by big name sports programs subisidizes the rest of the athletics for the school. The scholarships given to athletes could never be changed to academic sholarships, because that money wouldn't exist without the sports program. No kid has ever been denied a spot at a school because it was "stolen" by a recruited athlete.
I played soccer and football in highschool, your assumption is wrong.
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On July 15 2012 13:27 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 13:57 Smat wrote:On July 14 2012 12:24 Whitewing wrote:On July 14 2012 11:05 TommyP wrote:On July 14 2012 10:43 Whitewing wrote:On July 14 2012 06:08 ZasZ. wrote:On July 13 2012 15:48 Whitewing wrote:On July 13 2012 13:31 shawster wrote:On July 13 2012 13:27 Whitewing wrote:On July 13 2012 12:05 ZapRoffo wrote:
[quote]
Undeniably. And Penn State football has been one of the most extreme examples of it, it really is cult-like there. I swear before all this, Paterno was viewed by most Penn State devotees as closer to a mythical figure than a man.
College football though, it's just ugh, the whole institution already felt sort of icky but now it's gone over the edge. I don't really think I can watch it very much anymore without feeling really uneasy. And pro football, it's better but doesn't feel wholly right either (well and there's the fact that college football is its de-facto minor league so it's tied in as well). Football should adopt the baseball minor league format, rather than taking students from college. People who want to go pro in football would go play in the minor league for it. People shouldn't be going to college for something non-academic like sports, and taking scholarship money that should go to students there for academics. It would help with issues like this too. well in baseball there is collegiate base ball as well... theoretically the idea is alright, but in reality collegiate football is such a phenomenon in the U.S. that it'll probably never change. it took them 70 years to put in a damn play off system for god sakes. Collegiate baseball isn't for students who want a pro-career in baseball, that's what the minor leagues are for. People shouldn't be going to college (an institution for academics) on a football scholarship, taking money that could go to students there for academics, so they can get a job as a pro-football player which has no need for academics whatsoever. That's pretty short-sighted of you. Many players shoot for an athletic scholarship because it is the only way they can get a college education coming from a poor background. The vast majority of college athletes never become professional athletes, especially at lower tier Division 1 schools. I think my Division 1 school sent, at most, 1 or 2 people to the NFL every year. Everybody else on the team has to get a real job, and guess what you need for that? A college education! Whether you like it or not (you seem to not like sports), these athletic programs bring in a lot of money to the universities. There is corruption involved, but that is no different from any other area of society and needs to be treated on a case-by-case basis, not by turning the system on its head. I don't dislike sports, they're a good form of entertainment and promote healthy living for those not abusing steroids. I just don't see any academic value in them, and would prefer that they be kept separate from academic institutions. Why?? So schools dont make money and good/hard working kids who only could go to college due to sports, would still be in the ghetto. Why? Because of this absurd, ridiculous sports culture that dominates almost every academic institution in the country. You realize high school students get a day off from school to cheer for their football team? This culture is ridiculous, and it has to stop. Sports are valuable as a form of entertainment and as a good way for people to stay healthy, and that's pretty much it. They are raised up on this pedestal as if they're literally holy in this country. Shit like this asshole touching little kids and then having the staff cover for him happens because of this bullshit culture. Good hardworking kids should be able to get into college without sports if they apply themselves to their academics. I know for a fact that many fantastic schools like Harvard only charge based on your ability to pay if you get into the school. If your issue is with them being able to afford it, then rather than emphasizing sports as a way for them to get into it, we should be working on making school more affordable for students who work hard on academics. Our country is lagging behind so many others in terms of academics because we don't seem to value it. Maybe it's time that changed. You sound really defensive about this issue. I assume you didn't play many sports in high school. As was mentioned above, the revenue brought in by big name sports programs subisidizes the rest of the athletics for the school. The scholarships given to athletes could never be changed to academic sholarships, because that money wouldn't exist without the sports program. No kid has ever been denied a spot at a school because it was "stolen" by a recruited athlete. I played soccer and football in highschool, your assumption is wrong.
But the rest is completely correct.
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Lot of people put forth the argument that you shouldn't punish present student-athletes with penalties because they weren't involved in the scandal at all. But the whole purpose of punishment is to serve as a deterrent for all the other institutions in the NCAA. If other schools know that all they have to do is fire the offending coach to get off without any penalties then there is no incentive for the BoT or the admins to ensure that their athletic department is doing things the right way.
As far as a solution to the unseemliness of college sports, I think the key is to have congress step in and force the NBA and NFL to drop their age limits. Congress could do that because both of those professional orgs essentially have anti-trust exemptions (see steroid hearings with MLB). This way, if a kid is ready to go pro and make money, he is able to do so. If a guy isn't ready to go pro, then he's not going to be worth $180,000 cash under the table to some university. People say that kids aren't big enough to play in the NFL out of high school, but there are actually plenty of 300+ lb linemen in college.
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On July 14 2012 13:41 Whitewing wrote:
Why did the people higher up cover for Sandusky? Because he was valuable to their sports program. That's disgusting.
It was covered up because having a child sex scandal is really, really fucking bad for the school's image. It wouldn't necessarily have to be a football coach to have a bad effect on the school. A tarnished image means lower enrollment and less alumni contribution. He had little value to the program at that point. He retired after the first investigation in 1998.
The cover up was because of what would happen if it came out that this had taken place at PSU. It would be bad for any school and dry up alumni donations to the university as a whole. It would also have implications on the football program (which in turn, takes money away money from other programs at the school).
It was especially bad for PSU because Paterno was a smug dipshit who regularly touted how morally righteous he and his program was, which has been proven to be bs at this point.
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I do not believe it is representative of the entire city or schools opinion but when I see this as well as the report that PSU shuffled television channels when the Freeh report came on.. It makes me wonder what the atmosphere is like on campus in a general sense.
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The threat of vandalism really is the main reason why the statue should be taken down, at least for now. Makes no sense to keep it up when it's just going to be the center of more trouble for the school. Someone is obviously going to do something to it.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Nlf7d.jpg)
