On July 13 2012 12:05 ZapRoffo wrote: [quote] Undeniably. And Penn State football has been one of the most extreme examples of it, it really is cult-like there. I swear before all this, Paterno was viewed by most Penn State devotees as closer to a mythical figure than a man.
College football though, it's just ugh, the whole institution already felt sort of icky but now it's gone over the edge. I don't really think I can watch it very much anymore without feeling really uneasy. And pro football, it's better but doesn't feel wholly right either (well and there's the fact that college football is its de-facto minor league so it's tied in as well).
Football should adopt the baseball minor league format, rather than taking students from college. People who want to go pro in football would go play in the minor league for it. People shouldn't be going to college for something non-academic like sports, and taking scholarship money that should go to students there for academics.
It would help with issues like this too.
well in baseball there is collegiate base ball as well...
theoretically the idea is alright, but in reality collegiate football is such a phenomenon in the U.S. that it'll probably never change. it took them 70 years to put in a damn play off system for god sakes.
Collegiate baseball isn't for students who want a pro-career in baseball, that's what the minor leagues are for. People shouldn't be going to college (an institution for academics) on a football scholarship, taking money that could go to students there for academics, so they can get a job as a pro-football player which has no need for academics whatsoever.
That's pretty short-sighted of you. Many players shoot for an athletic scholarship because it is the only way they can get a college education coming from a poor background. The vast majority of college athletes never become professional athletes, especially at lower tier Division 1 schools. I think my Division 1 school sent, at most, 1 or 2 people to the NFL every year. Everybody else on the team has to get a real job, and guess what you need for that? A college education!
Whether you like it or not (you seem to not like sports), these athletic programs bring in a lot of money to the universities. There is corruption involved, but that is no different from any other area of society and needs to be treated on a case-by-case basis, not by turning the system on its head.
I don't dislike sports, they're a good form of entertainment and promote healthy living for those not abusing steroids. I just don't see any academic value in them, and would prefer that they be kept separate from academic institutions.
Why?? So schools dont make money and good/hard working kids who only could go to college due to sports, would still be in the ghetto.
Why? Because of this absurd, ridiculous sports culture that dominates almost every academic institution in the country. You realize high school students get a day off from school to cheer for their football team? This culture is ridiculous, and it has to stop. Sports are valuable as a form of entertainment and as a good way for people to stay healthy, and that's pretty much it. They are raised up on this pedestal as if they're literally holy in this country. Shit like this asshole touching little kids and then having the staff cover for him happens because of this bullshit culture.
Good hardworking kids should be able to get into college without sports if they apply themselves to their academics. I know for a fact that many fantastic schools like Harvard only charge based on your ability to pay if you get into the school. If your issue is with them being able to afford it, then rather than emphasizing sports as a way for them to get into it, we should be working on making school more affordable for students who work hard on academics.
Our country is lagging behind so many others in terms of academics because we don't seem to value it. Maybe it's time that changed.
Our country is lagging behind in everything except college. We have the best universities in the world. For every 1 great university in another country there are like 10 in america. Just because you dont like sports doesnt mean people dont. I dont think american culture had anything to do with a pedophile raping kids and his friends covering it up because they were afriad for their own selves and reputations.
Our country has the best universities, but guess who these best universities are educating? If you guessed foreigners, you guessed right. Look at how many students in the United States graduate college with a degree in an actual academic subject (not visual or performing arts), like a STEM degree, or a management or social and behavioral science degree, or something else that's academic in nature. The majority of U.S. citizens who attend college attend for visual and performing arts, or a similar non academic subject. Why is that? Because our culture frowns on academics and academically inclined people. They're labeled as 'nerds' or 'geeks', while the sport jocks are 'popular'. There's nothing wrong with visual and performing arts degrees, but our culture is emphasizing things like entertainment and sports while not emphasizing actual academics, and it's becoming quite obvious when you start looking at the world economy, and areas of technological development (you might notice India has it's own silicon valley now, guess where those workers got their education?). This is not a winning combination in the long run, it's unsustainable and it's going to cause serious issues down the line. Yeah, I know, our consumerist culture tells you want things now and not give a shit about later, but this is a serious problem. Having the best universities is irrelevant when location has no real effect on who attends, these schools take the best students, and many of them aren't from the U.S. They might as well be located overseas.
Again, I don't hate sports, but I also don't raise it to this ridiculous level that it's fans seem to think it deserves (Yes, I watch sports too). Sports simply are not important, they're nice to have and fun, but they aren't important, and this absurd drive our culture has to promote sports constantly is ridiculous. It doesn't matter that people like it, I like Burger King, but I would never argue that it's a healthy thing. Just look at your average newspaper: how much of it is taken up by sports? How much of it is taken up by academics or academic achievements? I've lost track of the amount of times someone I know has earned a very impressive academic achievement and had nobody care (win the national science fair? High school math team win for the state? Ignored!), while the sports team does nothing out of the ordinary and gets 100 times the attention.
Why did the people higher up cover for Sandusky? Because he was valuable to their sports program. That's disgusting.
You think this is a result of "our culture" that you apparently hate so much? It was a sick individual who turned out to be surrounded by some more sick individuals who were avoiding a scandal. "sports" and "America" did not create this issue, you fool. Disappoitnd about athletics driving universities?Oh "boo-hoo" another business model that follows the income, no surprise...not to mention all the positive impacts that strong sports programs have. They covered for him because they knew the consequences would be horrible for them, not because Sandusky was such a great football guru. Also, Harvard is your example? lol. Let's just all get academic scholarships to Harvard, I hear they're just taking kids off the street left and right.
Football should adopt the baseball minor league format, rather than taking students from college. People who want to go pro in football would go play in the minor league for it. People shouldn't be going to college for something non-academic like sports, and taking scholarship money that should go to students there for academics.
It would help with issues like this too.
well in baseball there is collegiate base ball as well...
theoretically the idea is alright, but in reality collegiate football is such a phenomenon in the U.S. that it'll probably never change. it took them 70 years to put in a damn play off system for god sakes.
Collegiate baseball isn't for students who want a pro-career in baseball, that's what the minor leagues are for. People shouldn't be going to college (an institution for academics) on a football scholarship, taking money that could go to students there for academics, so they can get a job as a pro-football player which has no need for academics whatsoever.
That's pretty short-sighted of you. Many players shoot for an athletic scholarship because it is the only way they can get a college education coming from a poor background. The vast majority of college athletes never become professional athletes, especially at lower tier Division 1 schools. I think my Division 1 school sent, at most, 1 or 2 people to the NFL every year. Everybody else on the team has to get a real job, and guess what you need for that? A college education!
Whether you like it or not (you seem to not like sports), these athletic programs bring in a lot of money to the universities. There is corruption involved, but that is no different from any other area of society and needs to be treated on a case-by-case basis, not by turning the system on its head.
I don't dislike sports, they're a good form of entertainment and promote healthy living for those not abusing steroids. I just don't see any academic value in them, and would prefer that they be kept separate from academic institutions.
Why?? So schools dont make money and good/hard working kids who only could go to college due to sports, would still be in the ghetto.
Why? Because of this absurd, ridiculous sports culture that dominates almost every academic institution in the country. You realize high school students get a day off from school to cheer for their football team? This culture is ridiculous, and it has to stop. Sports are valuable as a form of entertainment and as a good way for people to stay healthy, and that's pretty much it. They are raised up on this pedestal as if they're literally holy in this country. Shit like this asshole touching little kids and then having the staff cover for him happens because of this bullshit culture.
Good hardworking kids should be able to get into college without sports if they apply themselves to their academics. I know for a fact that many fantastic schools like Harvard only charge based on your ability to pay if you get into the school. If your issue is with them being able to afford it, then rather than emphasizing sports as a way for them to get into it, we should be working on making school more affordable for students who work hard on academics.
Our country is lagging behind so many others in terms of academics because we don't seem to value it. Maybe it's time that changed.
Our country is lagging behind in everything except college. We have the best universities in the world. For every 1 great university in another country there are like 10 in america. Just because you dont like sports doesnt mean people dont. I dont think american culture had anything to do with a pedophile raping kids and his friends covering it up because they were afriad for their own selves and reputations.
Our country has the best universities, but guess who these best universities are educating? If you guessed foreigners, you guessed right. Look at how many students in the United States graduate college with a degree in an actual academic subject (not visual or performing arts), like a STEM degree, or a management or social and behavioral science degree, or something else that's academic in nature. The majority of U.S. citizens who attend college attend for visual and performing arts, or a similar non academic subject. Why is that? Because our culture frowns on academics and academically inclined people. They're labeled as 'nerds' or 'geeks', while the sport jocks are 'popular'. There's nothing wrong with visual and performing arts degrees, but our culture is emphasizing things like entertainment and sports while not emphasizing actual academics, and it's becoming quite obvious when you start looking at the world economy, and areas of technological development (you might notice India has it's own silicon valley now, guess where those workers got their education?). This is not a winning combination in the long run, it's unsustainable and it's going to cause serious issues down the line. Yeah, I know, our consumerist culture tells you want things now and not give a shit about later, but this is a serious problem. Having the best universities is irrelevant when location has no real effect on who attends, these schools take the best students, and many of them aren't from the U.S. They might as well be located overseas.
Again, I don't hate sports, but I also don't raise it to this ridiculous level that it's fans seem to think it deserves (Yes, I watch sports too). Sports simply are not important, they're nice to have and fun, but they aren't important, and this absurd drive our culture has to promote sports constantly is ridiculous. It doesn't matter that people like it, I like Burger King, but I would never argue that it's a healthy thing. Just look at your average newspaper: how much of it is taken up by sports? How much of it is taken up by academics or academic achievements? I've lost track of the amount of times someone I know has earned a very impressive academic achievement and had nobody care (win the national science fair? High school math team win for the state? Ignored!), while the sports team does nothing out of the ordinary and gets 100 times the attention.
Why did the people higher up cover for Sandusky? Because he was valuable to their sports program. That's disgusting.
You think this is a result of "our culture" that you apparently hate so much? It was a sick individual who turned out to be surrounded by some more sick individuals who were avoiding a scandal. "sports" and "America" did not create this issue, you fool. Disappoitnd about athletics driving universities?Oh "boo-hoo" another business model that follows the income, no surprise...not to mention all the positive impacts that strong sports programs have. They covered for him because they knew the consequences would be horrible for them, not because Sandusky was such a great football guru. Also, Harvard is your example? lol. Let's just all get academic scholarships to Harvard, I hear they're just taking kids off the street left and right.
You should seriously read what he had to say instead of tangenting off to something completely irrelevant. He's absolutely right, sports take priority over academics at most universities. School is a business. What generates the most revenue? Sports.
He used Harvard as an example for what more schools should be like, not in terms of academic excellence, but in academic standards where how well you do in terms of studies is more important than if you can play sports or not. It's not my problem if you can't comprehend this.
man i just hope our great football triumphs over these rape victims and is never again threatened by such petty complaints. "daddy why isnt the football program shut down?" "because son, its just too big." evil voice -- "muahhaaha nothing will stand in our way." on a more serious note, can you imagine these slaves oh sorry "student athletes" after their practice is done and trying to take a shower in the same place where little boys were raped.
seeing stuff likes this makes me realize that Richard Nixon and NASA could easily have covered up a series of fake moon landings...
pedophiles don't wake up at 40 years old and say... " yuo know adult women are boring .. i think i'll have sex with 8 year old boys now". Sandusky has been a child molester his entire adult life and managed to cover it up for 45 years... leaving dozens if not hundreds of lives in ruin... all hidden ... all covered up.
On July 23 2012 03:55 TommyP wrote: 3:35 on that video.. WOW, the irony.
it's also exactly why the cover up happened and went on for so long. when you build yourself up as infallible, youre gonna do anything to protect that image
For the lazy: • $60 million fine (roughly what the football team takes in annually). This will be used to establish an endowment to help child sexual abuse victims • Loss of 10 scholarships (25 to 15) annually • Four-year postseason ban • Vacating all wins from 1998-2011. Bowden is now the #1 in all time wins • Students can transfer penalty free
Honestly, who gives a shit about the wins. They should have stripped them of all scholarships for four years. Among the several things that the cover up was done to protect (Paterno's legacy, the school's rep, alumni donation revenue), one of the chief things was recruiting, which would have been impacted by that coming to light in 1998.
I understood that the penn state college football community was full of shit the moment I read news about students protesting and complaining about paterno's firing after allegations surfaced that he was part of the coverup. It really just shows how perverse and cult-like the whole football program is and all who support it. Yes, it is unfair that innocent students who did nothing wrong are going to suffer punishment, but hey thats what happens when your leaders fuck up.
On July 23 2012 23:31 Zorkmid wrote: This program should have received the death penalty just like SMU.
Nice slap on the wrist NCAA.
At least they got the benefactor of the fine correct.
I don't think you understand how severe this is.
This is essentially worse than a one year death penalty that SMU received. 5 years from now coming off this they will be a team with MAC level talent at best. No top level players are going to go to Penn St for the next three years at least, no bowl games or conference championship games is a huge deal. On top of that they can only take 15 players per year, so the will have way less scholarship players and much lower level players than they traditionally have had.
O and throw in that all current players will be allowed to stop playing and keep their schollies or transfer immediately without penalty.
And it wouldn't surprise me is the B10 threw on some additional sanctions on during their news conference at 11AM EST
I was talking to a friend, because at first I didn't think it was harsh enough, but he says this is pretty serious.
Vacating wins doesn't do shit, we all agree. 60 million is not the profits from 1 year, it's more like 4 years of profits. Loss of scholarships is a huge deal. Their recruitment will be fucked even more than it is now. No post season hurts recruitment even more. Combined with the bad press, loss of paterno, and don't forget actual criminal hearings against people at the school, Penn State football is pretty clobbered.
Basically the penalties do a very good job of only hurting the football program and maybe a few other athletic things. It wouldn't be right to do penalties so severe that the academic portion of the school would be negatively affected.
On July 23 2012 23:40 Bigtony wrote: It wouldn't be right to do penalties so severe that the academic portion of the school would be negatively affected.
The administration of Penn State is as responsible for this unfathomable crime as the football program is.
On July 13 2012 12:05 ZapRoffo wrote: [quote] Undeniably. And Penn State football has been one of the most extreme examples of it, it really is cult-like there. I swear before all this, Paterno was viewed by most Penn State devotees as closer to a mythical figure than a man.
College football though, it's just ugh, the whole institution already felt sort of icky but now it's gone over the edge. I don't really think I can watch it very much anymore without feeling really uneasy. And pro football, it's better but doesn't feel wholly right either (well and there's the fact that college football is its de-facto minor league so it's tied in as well).
Football should adopt the baseball minor league format, rather than taking students from college. People who want to go pro in football would go play in the minor league for it. People shouldn't be going to college for something non-academic like sports, and taking scholarship money that should go to students there for academics.
It would help with issues like this too.
well in baseball there is collegiate base ball as well...
theoretically the idea is alright, but in reality collegiate football is such a phenomenon in the U.S. that it'll probably never change. it took them 70 years to put in a damn play off system for god sakes.
Collegiate baseball isn't for students who want a pro-career in baseball, that's what the minor leagues are for. People shouldn't be going to college (an institution for academics) on a football scholarship, taking money that could go to students there for academics, so they can get a job as a pro-football player which has no need for academics whatsoever.
That's pretty short-sighted of you. Many players shoot for an athletic scholarship because it is the only way they can get a college education coming from a poor background. The vast majority of college athletes never become professional athletes, especially at lower tier Division 1 schools. I think my Division 1 school sent, at most, 1 or 2 people to the NFL every year. Everybody else on the team has to get a real job, and guess what you need for that? A college education!
Whether you like it or not (you seem to not like sports), these athletic programs bring in a lot of money to the universities. There is corruption involved, but that is no different from any other area of society and needs to be treated on a case-by-case basis, not by turning the system on its head.
I don't dislike sports, they're a good form of entertainment and promote healthy living for those not abusing steroids. I just don't see any academic value in them, and would prefer that they be kept separate from academic institutions.
Why?? So schools dont make money and good/hard working kids who only could go to college due to sports, would still be in the ghetto.
Why? Because of this absurd, ridiculous sports culture that dominates almost every academic institution in the country. You realize high school students get a day off from school to cheer for their football team? This culture is ridiculous, and it has to stop. Sports are valuable as a form of entertainment and as a good way for people to stay healthy, and that's pretty much it. They are raised up on this pedestal as if they're literally holy in this country. Shit like this asshole touching little kids and then having the staff cover for him happens because of this bullshit culture.
Good hardworking kids should be able to get into college without sports if they apply themselves to their academics. I know for a fact that many fantastic schools like Harvard only charge based on your ability to pay if you get into the school. If your issue is with them being able to afford it, then rather than emphasizing sports as a way for them to get into it, we should be working on making school more affordable for students who work hard on academics.
Our country is lagging behind so many others in terms of academics because we don't seem to value it. Maybe it's time that changed.
Our country is lagging behind in everything except college. We have the best universities in the world. For every 1 great university in another country there are like 10 in america. Just because you dont like sports doesnt mean people dont. I dont think american culture had anything to do with a pedophile raping kids and his friends covering it up because they were afriad for their own selves and reputations.
Our country has the best universities, but guess who these best universities are educating? If you guessed foreigners, you guessed right. Look at how many students in the United States graduate college with a degree in an actual academic subject (not visual or performing arts), like a STEM degree, or a management or social and behavioral science degree, or something else that's academic in nature. The majority of U.S. citizens who attend college attend for visual and performing arts, or a similar non academic subject. Why is that? Because our culture frowns on academics and academically inclined people. They're labeled as 'nerds' or 'geeks', while the sport jocks are 'popular'. There's nothing wrong with visual and performing arts degrees, but our culture is emphasizing things like entertainment and sports while not emphasizing actual academics, and it's becoming quite obvious when you start looking at the world economy, and areas of technological development (you might notice India has it's own silicon valley now, guess where those workers got their education?). This is not a winning combination in the long run, it's unsustainable and it's going to cause serious issues down the line. Yeah, I know, our consumerist culture tells you want things now and not give a shit about later, but this is a serious problem. Having the best universities is irrelevant when location has no real effect on who attends, these schools take the best students, and many of them aren't from the U.S. They might as well be located overseas.
Again, I don't hate sports, but I also don't raise it to this ridiculous level that it's fans seem to think it deserves (Yes, I watch sports too). Sports simply are not important, they're nice to have and fun, but they aren't important, and this absurd drive our culture has to promote sports constantly is ridiculous. It doesn't matter that people like it, I like Burger King, but I would never argue that it's a healthy thing. Just look at your average newspaper: how much of it is taken up by sports? How much of it is taken up by academics or academic achievements? I've lost track of the amount of times someone I know has earned a very impressive academic achievement and had nobody care (win the national science fair? High school math team win for the state? Ignored!), while the sports team does nothing out of the ordinary and gets 100 times the attention.
Why did the people higher up cover for Sandusky? Because he was valuable to their sports program. That's disgusting.
Your example of newspapers giving more attention to sports doesn't really explain anything.
Papers report on things people actually find interesting. Does anyone honestly care that the local high school math team won state? Probably not enough to receive more than a short story, because frankly, what is there to report? They went to state, beat so and so, heres some quotes from members/coach, done. People don't like math and science in general. You can call that a problem if you want, but something as simple as sports is easy to follow.
You claim they're not important, but how important is math really? Outside of basic division/multiplication/addition/subtraction, when do you really use math unless your job actually requires it? Do you need to know the Pythagorean Theorem, or what a quadratic equation is? Chances are pretty good that you don't.
The sickest part of this is that Penn State is easily in the top 3 every year in football profits but those profits represent only around 2% of their overall budget every year. Most of that profit goes into funding other athletic programs. Most other schools aren't even making money with their programs. One of the victims' lawyers stated correctly that universities should stop being whores to their football programs.
And the NCAA did the correct thing in punishing them. We all know many religious cults outlive their founders. Penn State's football culture is cult like. Paternology did not go away with its founder. Its adherents are still clinging to it. Penn State and the NCAA have to dismantle the cult and reintegrate its members back to broader society.
EPT
