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Deadeight
United Kingdom1629 Posts
For example, gay couples often adopt. How is that not something that should be encouraged? Ignoring that, why not? To paraphrase that guy from "The rent is too damn high" party, if you want to marry a shoe marry a shoe. IF it makes you happy, then all is good. | ||
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MangoTango
United States3670 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/trBSD.jpg) | ||
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darklight54321
United States361 Posts
On October 21 2011 06:39 Deekin[ wrote: I hope I dont get banned for my opinion, but I think being gay is pretty unnatural. If I think about it, it disgusts me, alot. But I think gay marriage should be allowed all over the world. Because I think people should be happy, and if they are gay and are happy, then its just great for them. User was banned for this post. what mod banned this guy srsly? he stated an opinion, didn't try to force it on anyone, did it in a civil manner, and actually went away from his personal belief and SUPPORTED GAY MARRIAGE. This is the kind of shit that makes me mad at TL. | ||
Myles
United States5162 Posts
On October 22 2011 00:59 darklight54321 wrote: what mod banned this guy srsly? he stated an opinion, didn't try to force it on anyone, did it in a civil manner, and actually went away from his personal belief and SUPPORTED GAY MARRIAGE. This is the kind of shit that makes me mad at TL. He martyred himself. Saying I hope I dont get banned, or please don't ban for this, or anything related to that whatsoever ALWAYS results in a ban. | ||
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dcemuser
United States3248 Posts
On October 22 2011 00:59 darklight54321 wrote: what mod banned this guy srsly? he stated an opinion, didn't try to force it on anyone, did it in a civil manner, and actually went away from his personal belief and SUPPORTED GAY MARRIAGE. This is the kind of shit that makes me mad at TL. "I hope I don't get banned" is the reason he got banned. If you mention "I'll probably get banned for this", they will ban you regardless of what you post. | ||
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obsKura
Ireland1061 Posts
Just let people enjoy their lifes and let them do whatever makes them happy. If they wanna get married with their own gender, why the hell not? | ||
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Noro
Canada991 Posts
But I've been slightly confused lately on this issue. In most places, the controversy is due to Marriage being defined as the union of a Man and a Woman under God, and therefore religious objections to preform these unions. Until religion recognizes homosexuality as a perfectly normal human orientation, (which is likely never to happen) there will always be conflict. I guess my question is, Why bother? It doesn't even seem like a question of human rights to me, It's like there is a system in place for heterosexual people, but now EVERYONE wants in on it. Why do people NEED to be married? Tax cuts? That's really the only benifit... For a long time to come, there is always going to be stigma surrounding homosexuallity, and it is unfortunate, but saying that you're married isn't going to allieviate stigmatism. Perhaps it is a step in the right direction, but I don't know... Anyway, to sum this up, why the interest in Marriage, when in reality, it is just a religious, or state union, to put on a piece of paper. I don't recall reading anywhere that marriage is a human right. Shrug, maybe I'm just bored of the world complaining about things. | ||
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Myles
United States5162 Posts
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NeThZOR
South Africa7387 Posts
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Noro
Canada991 Posts
On October 22 2011 01:11 NeThZOR wrote: Only problem I have with gay marriage is the fact that they often adopt children, and then raise them. But the fact of the matter is that these children aren't being raised in a conventional home, and this confuses the child. If someone can explain to me what good there is in this subject matter - that is of the state of the children being raised by these couples - then I'd feel much more content with the idea. Otherwise I have no grievances with gay marriage. I think it would actually be a really good environment to grow up in. Gay parents would be able to teach really good values. Like, almost every gay person goes through ALOT of hardship growing up etc etc, I feel like they'd be able to teach their children to not judge people based on stupid things like race, orientation, beliefs, and what not. | ||
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Myles
United States5162 Posts
On October 22 2011 01:11 NeThZOR wrote: Only problem I have with gay marriage is the fact that they often adopt children, and then raise them. But the fact of the matter is that these children aren't being raised in a conventional home, and this confuses the child. If someone can explain to me what good there is in this subject matter - that is of the state of the children being raised by these couples - then I'd feel much more content with the idea. Otherwise I have no grievances with gay marriage. What is a conventional home? The 13 million families with a single parent? Or the kids who are raised to be bigots or racists? Or the kids who are 'taken care of' but never have a real family unit that supports and accepts them? So many kids are raised improperly in 'conventional' homes, but because its not a man and a women it's just assumed that they're going to come out messed up? | ||
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NeThZOR
South Africa7387 Posts
On October 22 2011 01:09 AIRwar wrote: Let me preface this by saying that I am entirely pro-gay, pro-rights, pro-blah blah blah. But I've been slightly confused lately on this issue. In most places, the controversy is due to Marriage being defined as the union of a Man and a Woman under God, and therefore religious objections to preform these unions. Until religion recognizes homosexuality as a perfectly normal human orientation, (which is likely never to happen) there will always be conflict. I guess my question is, Why bother? It doesn't even seem like a question of human rights to me, It's like there is a system in place for heterosexual people, but now EVERYONE wants in on it. Why do people NEED to be married? Tax cuts? That's really the only benifit... For a long time to come, there is always going to be stigma surrounding homosexuallity, and it is unfortunate, but saying that you're married isn't going to allieviate stigmatism. Perhaps it is a step in the right direction, but I don't know... Anyway, to sum this up, why the interest in Marriage, when in reality, it is just a religious, or state union, to put on a piece of paper. I don't recall reading anywhere that marriage is a human right. Shrug, maybe I'm just bored of the world complaining about things. I totally agree with your views there. To me as well it doesn't make sense why people need to get married. Only thing which I can think of is because of religious reasons, but even that is not being sanctified by religious person anymore. The world has become hypocritical, and it troubles me. There really is only a minority of persons left who strictly keep by the rules of whatever religion they ma follow. All the others try to make shortcuts and do not keep to that which is set by their holy scripts. I guess it is the world in which me live in. I don't know. | ||
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Velocirapture
United States983 Posts
On October 21 2011 18:38 vetinari wrote: I think we approach the restriction of liberties, and existing laws in general, from two different angles. I believe that the correct approach, is to assume that all existing laws had a good secular purpose. Then, until the justifications for the law are understood, the law should not be changed. And should only be changed if the change benefits society as a whole. Consider, for example, the restrictions on pork in muslim/jewish religion. This restriction did not come about by accident, but because in the climate in which Islam/Judaism originated, pork would quickly putrefy, leading to mass food poisoning when consumed. However, with the advent of refrigeration, this restriction is now obsolete and can be safely discarded. Or, consider the restriction of female sexual partner choice. In the past, father/mothers would choose the spouses of their children. This is something most people consider to be archaic and morally wrong, to restrict the freedom of their daughters. However, this too had good secular reason: women select in part for the dark triad*.. In this case, however, we lifted the restrictions before we understood the reasons. The consequence? Criminals now have a fertility rate more than double that of law abiding citizens, a plague of single mothers, with the attendant social costs, and men, instead of being encouraged to earn the respect of the girls father (which would occur by demonstrating bravery, industry, goodness, intelligence), are now incentivized to be cads and thugs. *among other reasons. FYI, the dark triad are the traits of narcissism, psychopathy, machiavellianism. People who have them are basically evil. Its posts like this that make me wonder if I am being trolled or if social conservatives are the victim of a misinformation conspiracy (apart from religion)  . | ||
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NeThZOR
South Africa7387 Posts
On October 22 2011 01:16 Myles wrote: What is a conventional home? The 13 million families with a single parent? Or the kids who are raised to be bigots or racists? Or the kids who are 'taken care of' but never have a real family unit that supports and accepts them? So many kids are raised improperly in 'conventional' homes, but because its not a man and a women it's just assumed that they're going to come out messed up? Who said that "conventional homes" are prominent in this world filled with violence and corruption? I never said that these setups are the consensus by which we live, but rather the ideal. And that ideal would be which is stipulated by nature: most mammals can be seen growing up cared for by both a mother and a father. That is my point. Why do I find that no matter to which thread I go, people are always trying to be offensive? Omg... EDIT: And yeah, they most likely will turn out messed up. Their views on sexuality that is. | ||
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Myles
United States5162 Posts
On October 22 2011 01:21 NeThZOR wrote: Who said that "conventional homes" are prominent in this world filled with violence and corruption? I never said that these setups are the consensus by which we live, but rather the ideal. And that ideal would be which is stipulated by nature: most mammals can be seen growing up cared for by both a mother and a father. That is my point. Why do I find that no matter to which thread I go, people are always trying to be offensive? Omg... Most mammals grow up with a mother and a father? Not quite. Birds actually do this far more often then mammals(90% of birds are monogamous, while only 7% of mammals are). Really, duel parent raised offspring is quite rare in the animal kingdom. Also, I'm not trying to be offensive. I'm asking how a conventional home is really conventional. The way you expressed it though, it seems you shouldn't have said conventional homes at all, since that conveys that you mean average or normal. If you want an ideal world where only the best people raise children that's cool, but living in the real world it's obvious(imo) that we can't screen every couple that has a kid naturally, it seems to me that a lot of kids would have benefited from growing up in stable household with two gay parents. On October 22 2011 01:21 NeThZOR wrote: EDIT: And yeah, they most likely will turn out messed up. Their views on sexuality that is. Sure, because we all know that if you're raised by a gay person you'll turn out to be gay. Maybe that's why people take offense to your posts, because you make outrageous claims like that. | ||
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OffCuts
10 Posts
On October 21 2011 06:36 Darkalbino wrote: Australia is a bigoted, homophobic country and I'll be surprised if this doesn't receive major backlash from mainstream news websites (seeing as how anti labor news limited is) While Australia is really quite behind in regard to its other policies (immigration, carbon, education) Matter of opinion. | ||
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Mithriel
Netherlands2969 Posts
On October 21 2011 06:59 NotSupporting wrote: I am against gay marriage (I'm atheist, always have been) 1. The state should not care about setting rules for religion just as religion should not set rules for the state. 2. Offer gay people an agreement with the same rights as marriage but call it something else to cover all the legal purposes. (In Sweden we have marriage and partnership, in the eyes of the law they are exactly the same thing but on is for heterosexual relationships only) Solves both problems - the religious and legal. Last note, for me it's crazy and illogical for gay people to want to get married in the church anyway. The bible hates gay people, it's a sin, religious people have killed gays coldblooded through history, it's largely thanks to Christianity the view on gay people have been so bad for such a long time. For me it's as illogical as if a Jew would fight all his life to be a part of the nazi community, but they reject him. Why should marriage be a religious thing, why cant it just be a testimony of love? If i get married i'm not getting married for the church, but just because i want to celebrate that amazing day with my loved one and friends and family (church has 0 place in that for me personally) | ||
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NeThZOR
South Africa7387 Posts
On October 22 2011 01:32 Myles wrote: Most mammals grow up with a mother and a father? Not quite. Birds actually do this far more often then mammals(90% of birds are monogamous, while only 7% of mammals are). Really, duel parent raised offspring is quite rare in the animal kingdom. Also, I'm not trying to be offensive. I'm asking how a conventional home is really conventional. The way you expressed it though, it seems you shouldn't have said conventional homes at all, since that conveys that you mean average or normal. If you want an ideal world where only the best people raise children that's cool, but living in the real world it's obvious(imo) that we can't screen every couple that has a kid naturally, it seems to me that a lot of kids would have benefited from growing up in stable household with two gay parents. Sure, because we all know that if you're raised by a gay person you'll turn out to be gay. Maybe that's why people take offense to your posts, because you make outrageous claims like that. Again, never quite stated that is the case. May I ask you how do you know anything to be true to the contrary? This phenomenon has not been around for anyone to make a study and post any results as to what is actually the case. That is just my hypothesis of what I believe would happen with the child. But anyway. Please tell me how'd you know about the parenting of animals, would be interesting to know because not a lot of people possess such a scope general knowledge. | ||
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iamahydralisk
United States813 Posts
On October 22 2011 01:21 NeThZOR wrote: Who said that "conventional homes" are prominent in this world filled with violence and corruption? I never said that these setups are the consensus by which we live, but rather the ideal. And that ideal would be which is stipulated by nature: most mammals can be seen growing up cared for by both a mother and a father. That is my point. Why do I find that no matter to which thread I go, people are always trying to be offensive? Omg... EDIT: And yeah, they most likely will turn out messed up. Their views on sexuality that is. Last line of your post reveals how prejudiced you really are. If a child is raised by a gay couple, they'll most likely end up being more supportive of ALL sexual orientations. Please explain to me and the rest of TL how that is in any way "messed up." also btw dude, check the myriad of links posted earlier in the thread about scientific studies showing that children raised by gay couples are no worse off for it. | ||
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NotSupporting
Sweden1998 Posts
On October 21 2011 08:02 FabledIntegral wrote: Ok? What's your point - I already said they generally don't want to get married in churches anyways. Don't you think you are the ignorant one here trying to speak for all gay people when saying "they" don't want to get married in churches anyway. I certainly know plenty of gay people who do want to get married in the traditional way with all the religious elements. | ||
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