|
On October 22 2011 02:27 NeThZOR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 02:25 Rhine wrote:On October 22 2011 01:21 NeThZOR wrote:
EDIT: And yeah, they most likely will turn out messed up. Their views on sexuality that is. Links? Why do you think so? I have provided numerous citations in this thread that development is mostly independent of parental orientation. I think so because of personal conviction.
So basically... Even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, you're going to keep believing something incorrect because of "personal conviction?"
Quite frankly... People like you are exactly what's wrong with the world today. You're not willing to open your mind up and think critically even a little bit, even when your precious viewpoints are proven false by reputable scientific studies. Viewpoints like yours are the exact opposite of progress.
|
On October 22 2011 03:19 iamahydralisk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 02:27 NeThZOR wrote:On October 22 2011 02:25 Rhine wrote:On October 22 2011 01:21 NeThZOR wrote:
EDIT: And yeah, they most likely will turn out messed up. Their views on sexuality that is. Links? Why do you think so? I have provided numerous citations in this thread that development is mostly independent of parental orientation. I think so because of personal conviction. So basically... Even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, you're going to keep believing something incorrect because of "personal conviction?" Quite frankly... People like you are exactly what's wrong with the world today. You're not willing to open your mind up and think critically even a little bit, even when your precious viewpoints are proven false by reputable scientific studies. Viewpoints like yours are the exact opposite of progress.
People that slag off other people's opinions and degrade them as well are the most open minded of all, you're just like Kyle's mom.
|
On October 22 2011 03:36 Evil_Monkey_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 03:19 iamahydralisk wrote:On October 22 2011 02:27 NeThZOR wrote:On October 22 2011 02:25 Rhine wrote:On October 22 2011 01:21 NeThZOR wrote:
EDIT: And yeah, they most likely will turn out messed up. Their views on sexuality that is. Links? Why do you think so? I have provided numerous citations in this thread that development is mostly independent of parental orientation. I think so because of personal conviction. So basically... Even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, you're going to keep believing something incorrect because of "personal conviction?" Quite frankly... People like you are exactly what's wrong with the world today. You're not willing to open your mind up and think critically even a little bit, even when your precious viewpoints are proven false by reputable scientific studies. Viewpoints like yours are the exact opposite of progress. People that slag off other people's opinions and degrade them as well are the most open minded of all, you're just like Kyle's mom.
opinions can be stupid
you should not allow people to be stupid
|
On October 22 2011 03:36 Evil_Monkey_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 03:19 iamahydralisk wrote:On October 22 2011 02:27 NeThZOR wrote:On October 22 2011 02:25 Rhine wrote:On October 22 2011 01:21 NeThZOR wrote:
EDIT: And yeah, they most likely will turn out messed up. Their views on sexuality that is. Links? Why do you think so? I have provided numerous citations in this thread that development is mostly independent of parental orientation. I think so because of personal conviction. So basically... Even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, you're going to keep believing something incorrect because of "personal conviction?" Quite frankly... People like you are exactly what's wrong with the world today. You're not willing to open your mind up and think critically even a little bit, even when your precious viewpoints are proven false by reputable scientific studies. Viewpoints like yours are the exact opposite of progress. People that slag off other people's opinions and degrade them as well are the most open minded of all, you're just like Kyle's mom.
What he has isn't an opinion. He's just wrong. There's a difference.
An opinion is when you believe something that cannot be proven right or wrong. For example, "I think dogs are better than cats." That's an opinion because nobody can prove one way or another which one is better. On the other hand, virtually every scientific study ever done on the subject of gay parents and their children has returned with the results of "no different than a child being raised by heterosexual parents." To believe otherwise in the face of overwhelming evidence is not an opinion because it can be and has been proven wrong. It would be like me saying "I think all mammals are cold-blooded." Not an opinion because I would be demonstrably wrong.
I realize I came across as harsh in my previous post, but I can't fucking stand it when people basically turn off the higher thinking parts of their brain and close out new info if it doesn't agree with their existing beliefs.
By the way, who's Kyle's mom? lol.
|
Biological Parents should raise children together. I wish sperm banks were banned.
|
On October 21 2011 06:59 NotSupporting wrote:
I am against gay marriage (I'm atheist, always have been)
1. The state should not care about setting rules for religion just as religion should not set rules for the state.
2. Offer gay people an agreement with the same rights as marriage but call it something else to cover all the legal purposes. (In Sweden we have marriage and partnership, in the eyes of the law they are exactly the same thing but on is for heterosexual relationships only)
Solves both problems - the religious and legal.
Last note, for me it's crazy and illogical for gay people to want to get married in the church anyway. The bible hates gay people, it's a sin, religious people have killed gays coldblooded through history, it's largely thanks to Christianity the view on gay people have been so bad for such a long time. For me it's as illogical as if a Jew would fight all his life to be a part of the nazi community, but they reject him.
You are so silly. Clearly you haven't even taken a moment to research or consider the implications of gay marriage. Just because the Federal government legalizes gay marriage does not mean that religious organizations will be required to provide marriage services to gays. They have the right to set their own religious practices (within the law, as has always been the case). What it will mean is that religious organizations that are willing to provide marriage services can do so freely, and the government will recognize and provide marriage certificates for gays.
The old civil union malarkey has never stood up to any real thought regarding equality. Giving them all the same legal rights, but calling them something else to appease non-gays would be no different from having a separate citizenship for Black people with all the same rights because whiteys don't like dem negroes up in dere herp derp.
Bigoted, closed-minded churches and religious groups can continue being bigoted and closed-minded, but those that aren't can give homosexuals what they've always wanted; long, unfulfilled sex lives and high rates of divorce.
|
On October 22 2011 03:44 iamahydralisk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 03:36 Evil_Monkey_ wrote:On October 22 2011 03:19 iamahydralisk wrote:On October 22 2011 02:27 NeThZOR wrote:On October 22 2011 02:25 Rhine wrote:On October 22 2011 01:21 NeThZOR wrote:
EDIT: And yeah, they most likely will turn out messed up. Their views on sexuality that is. Links? Why do you think so? I have provided numerous citations in this thread that development is mostly independent of parental orientation. I think so because of personal conviction. So basically... Even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, you're going to keep believing something incorrect because of "personal conviction?" Quite frankly... People like you are exactly what's wrong with the world today. You're not willing to open your mind up and think critically even a little bit, even when your precious viewpoints are proven false by reputable scientific studies. Viewpoints like yours are the exact opposite of progress. People that slag off other people's opinions and degrade them as well are the most open minded of all, you're just like Kyle's mom. What he has isn't an opinion. He's just wrong. There's a difference. An opinion is when you believe something that cannot be proven right or wrong. For example, "I think dogs are better than cats." That's an opinion because nobody can prove one way or another which one is better. On the other hand, virtually every scientific study ever done on the subject of gay parents and their children has returned with the results of "no different than a child being raised by heterosexual parents." To believe otherwise in the face of overwhelming evidence is not an opinion because it can be and has been proven wrong. It would be like me saying "I think all mammals are cold-blooded." Not an opinion because I would be demonstrably wrong. I realize I came across as harsh in my previous post, but I can't fucking stand it when people basically turn off the higher thinking parts of their brain and close out new info if it doesn't agree with their existing beliefs. By the way, who's Kyle's mom? lol.
What you're doing is stating that your own opinions are 'facts' and degrading other people and their opinions, at the same time you're claiming that you yourself are 'open minded'. Despite the fact that you're degrading other people and their opinions and putting forward your own points of view like a fascist. Kyle's mom does it all the time in South Park, claiming to be superior to other people and open minded while at the same time forcing her point of view on others.
|
On October 22 2011 03:56 Evil_Monkey_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 03:44 iamahydralisk wrote:On October 22 2011 03:36 Evil_Monkey_ wrote:On October 22 2011 03:19 iamahydralisk wrote:On October 22 2011 02:27 NeThZOR wrote:On October 22 2011 02:25 Rhine wrote:On October 22 2011 01:21 NeThZOR wrote:
EDIT: And yeah, they most likely will turn out messed up. Their views on sexuality that is. Links? Why do you think so? I have provided numerous citations in this thread that development is mostly independent of parental orientation. I think so because of personal conviction. So basically... Even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, you're going to keep believing something incorrect because of "personal conviction?" Quite frankly... People like you are exactly what's wrong with the world today. You're not willing to open your mind up and think critically even a little bit, even when your precious viewpoints are proven false by reputable scientific studies. Viewpoints like yours are the exact opposite of progress. People that slag off other people's opinions and degrade them as well are the most open minded of all, you're just like Kyle's mom. What he has isn't an opinion. He's just wrong. There's a difference. An opinion is when you believe something that cannot be proven right or wrong. For example, "I think dogs are better than cats." That's an opinion because nobody can prove one way or another which one is better. On the other hand, virtually every scientific study ever done on the subject of gay parents and their children has returned with the results of "no different than a child being raised by heterosexual parents." To believe otherwise in the face of overwhelming evidence is not an opinion because it can be and has been proven wrong. It would be like me saying "I think all mammals are cold-blooded." Not an opinion because I would be demonstrably wrong. I realize I came across as harsh in my previous post, but I can't fucking stand it when people basically turn off the higher thinking parts of their brain and close out new info if it doesn't agree with their existing beliefs. By the way, who's Kyle's mom? lol. What you're doing is stating that your own opinions are 'facts' and degrading other people and their opinions, at the same time you're claiming that you yourself are 'open minded'. Despite the fact that you're degrading other people and their opinions and putting forward your own points of view like a fascist. Kyle's mom does it all the time in South Park, claiming to be superior to other people and open minded while at the same time forcing her point of view on others.
you're arguing that the opinion backed up by "personal conviction" is at least equivalent to one backed up by research and evidence?
|
United States5162 Posts
On October 22 2011 03:56 Evil_Monkey_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 03:44 iamahydralisk wrote:On October 22 2011 03:36 Evil_Monkey_ wrote:On October 22 2011 03:19 iamahydralisk wrote:On October 22 2011 02:27 NeThZOR wrote:On October 22 2011 02:25 Rhine wrote:On October 22 2011 01:21 NeThZOR wrote:
EDIT: And yeah, they most likely will turn out messed up. Their views on sexuality that is. Links? Why do you think so? I have provided numerous citations in this thread that development is mostly independent of parental orientation. I think so because of personal conviction. So basically... Even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, you're going to keep believing something incorrect because of "personal conviction?" Quite frankly... People like you are exactly what's wrong with the world today. You're not willing to open your mind up and think critically even a little bit, even when your precious viewpoints are proven false by reputable scientific studies. Viewpoints like yours are the exact opposite of progress. People that slag off other people's opinions and degrade them as well are the most open minded of all, you're just like Kyle's mom. What he has isn't an opinion. He's just wrong. There's a difference. An opinion is when you believe something that cannot be proven right or wrong. For example, "I think dogs are better than cats." That's an opinion because nobody can prove one way or another which one is better. On the other hand, virtually every scientific study ever done on the subject of gay parents and their children has returned with the results of "no different than a child being raised by heterosexual parents." To believe otherwise in the face of overwhelming evidence is not an opinion because it can be and has been proven wrong. It would be like me saying "I think all mammals are cold-blooded." Not an opinion because I would be demonstrably wrong. I realize I came across as harsh in my previous post, but I can't fucking stand it when people basically turn off the higher thinking parts of their brain and close out new info if it doesn't agree with their existing beliefs. By the way, who's Kyle's mom? lol. What you're doing is stating that your own opinions are 'facts' and degrading other people and their opinions, at the same time you're claiming that you yourself are 'open minded'. Despite the fact that you're degrading other people and their opinions and putting forward your own points of view like a fascist. Kyle's mom does it all the time in South Park, claiming to be superior to other people and open minded while at the same time forcing her point of view on others.
Dude, there's been research on it. When you can form a hypothesis and test it, it isn't an opinion. As he said, saying you like cats more then dogs is an opinion. Saying that this causes that is not - that's making a factual statement.
|
On October 22 2011 03:56 Evil_Monkey_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 03:44 iamahydralisk wrote:On October 22 2011 03:36 Evil_Monkey_ wrote:On October 22 2011 03:19 iamahydralisk wrote:On October 22 2011 02:27 NeThZOR wrote:On October 22 2011 02:25 Rhine wrote:On October 22 2011 01:21 NeThZOR wrote:
EDIT: And yeah, they most likely will turn out messed up. Their views on sexuality that is. Links? Why do you think so? I have provided numerous citations in this thread that development is mostly independent of parental orientation. I think so because of personal conviction. So basically... Even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, you're going to keep believing something incorrect because of "personal conviction?" Quite frankly... People like you are exactly what's wrong with the world today. You're not willing to open your mind up and think critically even a little bit, even when your precious viewpoints are proven false by reputable scientific studies. Viewpoints like yours are the exact opposite of progress. People that slag off other people's opinions and degrade them as well are the most open minded of all, you're just like Kyle's mom. What he has isn't an opinion. He's just wrong. There's a difference. An opinion is when you believe something that cannot be proven right or wrong. For example, "I think dogs are better than cats." That's an opinion because nobody can prove one way or another which one is better. On the other hand, virtually every scientific study ever done on the subject of gay parents and their children has returned with the results of "no different than a child being raised by heterosexual parents." To believe otherwise in the face of overwhelming evidence is not an opinion because it can be and has been proven wrong. It would be like me saying "I think all mammals are cold-blooded." Not an opinion because I would be demonstrably wrong. I realize I came across as harsh in my previous post, but I can't fucking stand it when people basically turn off the higher thinking parts of their brain and close out new info if it doesn't agree with their existing beliefs. By the way, who's Kyle's mom? lol. What you're doing is stating that your own opinions are 'facts' and degrading other people and their opinions, at the same time you're claiming that you yourself are 'open minded'. Despite the fact that you're degrading other people and their opinions and putting forward your own points of view like a fascist. Kyle's mom does it all the time in South Park, claiming to be superior to other people and open minded while at the same time forcing her point of view on others.
You just retyped what the person quoted you as saying, just 3 times longer. Does he now have to retype what he typed in a more bloated way as well?
|
On October 22 2011 03:56 Evil_Monkey_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 03:44 iamahydralisk wrote:On October 22 2011 03:36 Evil_Monkey_ wrote:On October 22 2011 03:19 iamahydralisk wrote:On October 22 2011 02:27 NeThZOR wrote:On October 22 2011 02:25 Rhine wrote:On October 22 2011 01:21 NeThZOR wrote:
EDIT: And yeah, they most likely will turn out messed up. Their views on sexuality that is. Links? Why do you think so? I have provided numerous citations in this thread that development is mostly independent of parental orientation. I think so because of personal conviction. So basically... Even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, you're going to keep believing something incorrect because of "personal conviction?" Quite frankly... People like you are exactly what's wrong with the world today. You're not willing to open your mind up and think critically even a little bit, even when your precious viewpoints are proven false by reputable scientific studies. Viewpoints like yours are the exact opposite of progress. People that slag off other people's opinions and degrade them as well are the most open minded of all, you're just like Kyle's mom. What he has isn't an opinion. He's just wrong. There's a difference. An opinion is when you believe something that cannot be proven right or wrong. For example, "I think dogs are better than cats." That's an opinion because nobody can prove one way or another which one is better. On the other hand, virtually every scientific study ever done on the subject of gay parents and their children has returned with the results of "no different than a child being raised by heterosexual parents." To believe otherwise in the face of overwhelming evidence is not an opinion because it can be and has been proven wrong. It would be like me saying "I think all mammals are cold-blooded." Not an opinion because I would be demonstrably wrong. I realize I came across as harsh in my previous post, but I can't fucking stand it when people basically turn off the higher thinking parts of their brain and close out new info if it doesn't agree with their existing beliefs. By the way, who's Kyle's mom? lol. What you're doing is stating that your own opinions are 'facts' and degrading other people and their opinions, at the same time you're claiming that you yourself are 'open minded'. Despite the fact that you're degrading other people and their opinions and putting forward your own points of view like a fascist. Kyle's mom does it all the time in South Park, claiming to be superior to other people and open minded while at the same time forcing her point of view on others.
Can I point out that you're obliviously doing exactly the same thing right now? What he made was a value judgement, and a correct one. He's made a judgement that one value (ignorance as a personal conviction, lol), isn't as good as another value (universal tolerance). One of those things is better than the other. Period. You can either see this or you can't. Someone also raised a valid point that the realm of subjectivity and opinion has no place in a discussion of empirically demonstrable facts.
Don't pretend to hold up the notion that everyone's views and opinions are equally valid, while denouncing those opinions that fly in the face of that same premise. It's called a contradiction.
|
On October 22 2011 04:00 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 03:56 Evil_Monkey_ wrote:On October 22 2011 03:44 iamahydralisk wrote:On October 22 2011 03:36 Evil_Monkey_ wrote:On October 22 2011 03:19 iamahydralisk wrote:On October 22 2011 02:27 NeThZOR wrote:On October 22 2011 02:25 Rhine wrote:On October 22 2011 01:21 NeThZOR wrote:
EDIT: And yeah, they most likely will turn out messed up. Their views on sexuality that is. Links? Why do you think so? I have provided numerous citations in this thread that development is mostly independent of parental orientation. I think so because of personal conviction. So basically... Even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, you're going to keep believing something incorrect because of "personal conviction?" Quite frankly... People like you are exactly what's wrong with the world today. You're not willing to open your mind up and think critically even a little bit, even when your precious viewpoints are proven false by reputable scientific studies. Viewpoints like yours are the exact opposite of progress. People that slag off other people's opinions and degrade them as well are the most open minded of all, you're just like Kyle's mom. What he has isn't an opinion. He's just wrong. There's a difference. An opinion is when you believe something that cannot be proven right or wrong. For example, "I think dogs are better than cats." That's an opinion because nobody can prove one way or another which one is better. On the other hand, virtually every scientific study ever done on the subject of gay parents and their children has returned with the results of "no different than a child being raised by heterosexual parents." To believe otherwise in the face of overwhelming evidence is not an opinion because it can be and has been proven wrong. It would be like me saying "I think all mammals are cold-blooded." Not an opinion because I would be demonstrably wrong. I realize I came across as harsh in my previous post, but I can't fucking stand it when people basically turn off the higher thinking parts of their brain and close out new info if it doesn't agree with their existing beliefs. By the way, who's Kyle's mom? lol. What you're doing is stating that your own opinions are 'facts' and degrading other people and their opinions, at the same time you're claiming that you yourself are 'open minded'. Despite the fact that you're degrading other people and their opinions and putting forward your own points of view like a fascist. Kyle's mom does it all the time in South Park, claiming to be superior to other people and open minded while at the same time forcing her point of view on others. Dude, there's been research on it. When you can form a hypothesis and test it, it isn't an opinion. As he said, saying you like cats more then dogs is an opinion. Saying that this causes that is not - that's making a factual statement.
We aren't talking about cats and dogs, we're talking about gay people. You quoting some research on the topic doesn't mean that you have the right to define other people's opinions. I think a completely natural and logical assumption that substituting mom with uncle bob will effect a child's view on sexuality and I don't think I or other people deserve to be condescended upon by people for having this opinion.
If I posted some research contrary to yours, would that entitle me to call you stupid and degrade your opinions and put my own opinions forward as fact? Please answer the question directly and don't talk about cats and dogs or twist my words. Thank you.
|
do you -have- any nonbiased research to post? (ie - not formed by biased christian/mormon organisations?)
|
I think it's pretty safe to say this discussion is going absolutely no where.
|
yeah.. they never go anywhere.
no one is convinced of anything *shrug*
|
On October 22 2011 04:17 sevencck wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 03:56 Evil_Monkey_ wrote:On October 22 2011 03:44 iamahydralisk wrote:On October 22 2011 03:36 Evil_Monkey_ wrote:On October 22 2011 03:19 iamahydralisk wrote:On October 22 2011 02:27 NeThZOR wrote:On October 22 2011 02:25 Rhine wrote:On October 22 2011 01:21 NeThZOR wrote:
EDIT: And yeah, they most likely will turn out messed up. Their views on sexuality that is. Links? Why do you think so? I have provided numerous citations in this thread that development is mostly independent of parental orientation. I think so because of personal conviction. So basically... Even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, you're going to keep believing something incorrect because of "personal conviction?" Quite frankly... People like you are exactly what's wrong with the world today. You're not willing to open your mind up and think critically even a little bit, even when your precious viewpoints are proven false by reputable scientific studies. Viewpoints like yours are the exact opposite of progress. People that slag off other people's opinions and degrade them as well are the most open minded of all, you're just like Kyle's mom. What he has isn't an opinion. He's just wrong. There's a difference. An opinion is when you believe something that cannot be proven right or wrong. For example, "I think dogs are better than cats." That's an opinion because nobody can prove one way or another which one is better. On the other hand, virtually every scientific study ever done on the subject of gay parents and their children has returned with the results of "no different than a child being raised by heterosexual parents." To believe otherwise in the face of overwhelming evidence is not an opinion because it can be and has been proven wrong. It would be like me saying "I think all mammals are cold-blooded." Not an opinion because I would be demonstrably wrong. I realize I came across as harsh in my previous post, but I can't fucking stand it when people basically turn off the higher thinking parts of their brain and close out new info if it doesn't agree with their existing beliefs. By the way, who's Kyle's mom? lol. What you're doing is stating that your own opinions are 'facts' and degrading other people and their opinions, at the same time you're claiming that you yourself are 'open minded'. Despite the fact that you're degrading other people and their opinions and putting forward your own points of view like a fascist. Kyle's mom does it all the time in South Park, claiming to be superior to other people and open minded while at the same time forcing her point of view on others. Can I point out that you're obliviously doing exactly the same thing right now? What he made was a value judgement, and a correct one. He's made a judgement that one value (ignorance as a personal conviction, lol), isn't as good as another value (universal tolerance). One of those things is better than the other. Period. You can either see this or you can't. Someone also raised a valid point that the realm of subjectivity and opinion has no place in a discussion of empirically demonstrable facts. Don't pretend to hold up the notion that everyone's views and opinions are equally valid, while denouncing those opinions that fly in the face of that same premise. It's called a contradiction.
I think it's laughable that you're calling this sort of thing an emipiral fact, you've obviously never been to university. There are rules for research and you need criteria, such as validity, you need it to be representative and consistent, even if these requirements were met, it would still not be an empirical fact. An empirical is like 2+2=4, not the load of rubbish you're coughing up and presenting as fact. If you went to college or university and presented this as a rock hard empirical fact, the professors would be laughing for ages.
|
On October 22 2011 04:42 Evil_Monkey_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 04:17 sevencck wrote:On October 22 2011 03:56 Evil_Monkey_ wrote:On October 22 2011 03:44 iamahydralisk wrote:On October 22 2011 03:36 Evil_Monkey_ wrote:On October 22 2011 03:19 iamahydralisk wrote:On October 22 2011 02:27 NeThZOR wrote:On October 22 2011 02:25 Rhine wrote:On October 22 2011 01:21 NeThZOR wrote:
EDIT: And yeah, they most likely will turn out messed up. Their views on sexuality that is. Links? Why do you think so? I have provided numerous citations in this thread that development is mostly independent of parental orientation. I think so because of personal conviction. So basically... Even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, you're going to keep believing something incorrect because of "personal conviction?" Quite frankly... People like you are exactly what's wrong with the world today. You're not willing to open your mind up and think critically even a little bit, even when your precious viewpoints are proven false by reputable scientific studies. Viewpoints like yours are the exact opposite of progress. People that slag off other people's opinions and degrade them as well are the most open minded of all, you're just like Kyle's mom. What he has isn't an opinion. He's just wrong. There's a difference. An opinion is when you believe something that cannot be proven right or wrong. For example, "I think dogs are better than cats." That's an opinion because nobody can prove one way or another which one is better. On the other hand, virtually every scientific study ever done on the subject of gay parents and their children has returned with the results of "no different than a child being raised by heterosexual parents." To believe otherwise in the face of overwhelming evidence is not an opinion because it can be and has been proven wrong. It would be like me saying "I think all mammals are cold-blooded." Not an opinion because I would be demonstrably wrong. I realize I came across as harsh in my previous post, but I can't fucking stand it when people basically turn off the higher thinking parts of their brain and close out new info if it doesn't agree with their existing beliefs. By the way, who's Kyle's mom? lol. What you're doing is stating that your own opinions are 'facts' and degrading other people and their opinions, at the same time you're claiming that you yourself are 'open minded'. Despite the fact that you're degrading other people and their opinions and putting forward your own points of view like a fascist. Kyle's mom does it all the time in South Park, claiming to be superior to other people and open minded while at the same time forcing her point of view on others. Can I point out that you're obliviously doing exactly the same thing right now? What he made was a value judgement, and a correct one. He's made a judgement that one value (ignorance as a personal conviction, lol), isn't as good as another value (universal tolerance). One of those things is better than the other. Period. You can either see this or you can't. Someone also raised a valid point that the realm of subjectivity and opinion has no place in a discussion of empirically demonstrable facts. Don't pretend to hold up the notion that everyone's views and opinions are equally valid, while denouncing those opinions that fly in the face of that same premise. It's called a contradiction. I think it's laughable that you're calling this sort of thing an emipiral fact, you've obviously never been to university. There are rules for research and you need criteria, such as validity, you need it to be representative and consistent, even if these requirements were met, it would still not be an empirical fact. An empirical is like 2+2=4, not the load of rubbish you're coughing up and presenting as fact. If you went to college or university and presented this as a rock hard empirical fact, the professors would be laughing for ages.
sevencck, B.A., B.Sc. (Hons), currently working on Ph.D
Let me just add that you don't need to have attended university to have an educated, inclusive, or evolved view. I hope we can put that ugly university comment behind us now.
1. You, the champion of people's rights to their opinion from 5 minutes ago, has now decided that my opinion sucks and I should be laughed at for my ignorance. Not that this is relevant, I just thought I'd point that out.
2. There does indeed exist a realm of empirical fact in this topic, because you can conduct empirical studies on the psychological effect of children that have been raised by a gay couple in a given society. Does this mean that it's fact in the same way that 2+2 = 4? No, since no study is perfect. Is that relevant? No, because it remains an unbiased empirical study, which operates in the realm of objective factual truth, and is better than the ignorant convictions of people. I doubt a professor of clinical psychology would laugh if I told him his empirical studies weren't factually oriented. These types of studies exist within the realm of objective, empirical, factually oriented truth. It is entirely different than subjective philosophical conjecture, though to be honest I prefer the latter to the former. I find it more stimulating and fundamental to philosophically outline and critique a view.
The point is, people have asked you to provide any empirically based study that gays can't make decent parents, and you have yet to do so.
|
United States5162 Posts
On October 22 2011 04:20 Evil_Monkey_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 04:00 Myles wrote:On October 22 2011 03:56 Evil_Monkey_ wrote:On October 22 2011 03:44 iamahydralisk wrote:On October 22 2011 03:36 Evil_Monkey_ wrote:On October 22 2011 03:19 iamahydralisk wrote:On October 22 2011 02:27 NeThZOR wrote:On October 22 2011 02:25 Rhine wrote:On October 22 2011 01:21 NeThZOR wrote:
EDIT: And yeah, they most likely will turn out messed up. Their views on sexuality that is. Links? Why do you think so? I have provided numerous citations in this thread that development is mostly independent of parental orientation. I think so because of personal conviction. So basically... Even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, you're going to keep believing something incorrect because of "personal conviction?" Quite frankly... People like you are exactly what's wrong with the world today. You're not willing to open your mind up and think critically even a little bit, even when your precious viewpoints are proven false by reputable scientific studies. Viewpoints like yours are the exact opposite of progress. People that slag off other people's opinions and degrade them as well are the most open minded of all, you're just like Kyle's mom. What he has isn't an opinion. He's just wrong. There's a difference. An opinion is when you believe something that cannot be proven right or wrong. For example, "I think dogs are better than cats." That's an opinion because nobody can prove one way or another which one is better. On the other hand, virtually every scientific study ever done on the subject of gay parents and their children has returned with the results of "no different than a child being raised by heterosexual parents." To believe otherwise in the face of overwhelming evidence is not an opinion because it can be and has been proven wrong. It would be like me saying "I think all mammals are cold-blooded." Not an opinion because I would be demonstrably wrong. I realize I came across as harsh in my previous post, but I can't fucking stand it when people basically turn off the higher thinking parts of their brain and close out new info if it doesn't agree with their existing beliefs. By the way, who's Kyle's mom? lol. What you're doing is stating that your own opinions are 'facts' and degrading other people and their opinions, at the same time you're claiming that you yourself are 'open minded'. Despite the fact that you're degrading other people and their opinions and putting forward your own points of view like a fascist. Kyle's mom does it all the time in South Park, claiming to be superior to other people and open minded while at the same time forcing her point of view on others. Dude, there's been research on it. When you can form a hypothesis and test it, it isn't an opinion. As he said, saying you like cats more then dogs is an opinion. Saying that this causes that is not - that's making a factual statement. We aren't talking about cats and dogs, we're talking about gay people. You quoting some research on the topic doesn't mean that you have the right to define other people's opinions. I think a completely natural and logical assumption that substituting mom with uncle bob will effect a child's view on sexuality and I don't think I or other people deserve to be condescended upon by people for having this opinion. If I posted some research contrary to yours, would that entitle me to call you stupid and degrade your opinions and put my own opinions forward as fact? Please answer the question directly and don't talk about cats and dogs or twist my words. Thank you.
ITS NOT A FUCKING OPINION.
When you says this causes that, you are making a factual statement that can proven wrong. Opinions can't be proven wrong. Saying the sky is blue is not an opinion, saying that children raised by gays are inherently different isn't an opinion.
So yes, if I said 'saltwater causes warts' and you posted a bunch of research showing that it doesn't, but I still insisted that it does, I would be a fucking moron. Same as if you say gay people raise children that are inclined to be gay. Research has been posted showing that it doesn't matter if they're gay, but if they have a masculine and feminine adult-figure in their life. So if you continue to insist that they do you would be wrong.
|
I'm completely with the people who say that gay marriage should not be allowed. Unfortunately, there are so many things that have eroded the sanctity of marriage.
It used to be that black people were not allowed to marry white people. We need to revoke that change now. Also, handicapped people should not be allowed to marry, they should be hidden away in shame like it used to be.
And why is it that I can't buy a bride from her father? That's tradition! And of course she should obey me in everything I say, because the bible says so.
It seems people have no respect for traditional values anymore.
|
On October 21 2011 06:59 NotSupporting wrote:
I am against gay marriage (I'm atheist, always have been)
1. The state should not care about setting rules for religion just as religion should not set rules for the state.
2. Offer gay people an agreement with the same rights as marriage but call it something else to cover all the legal purposes. (In Sweden we have marriage and partnership, in the eyes of the law they are exactly the same thing but on is for heterosexual relationships only)
Solves both problems - the religious and legal.
Last note, for me it's crazy and illogical for gay people to want to get married in the church anyway. The bible hates gay people, it's a sin, religious people have killed gays coldblooded through history, it's largely thanks to Christianity the view on gay people have been so bad for such a long time. For me it's as illogical as if a Jew would fight all his life to be a part of the nazi community, but they reject him.
This is how I've felt for a long time. Marriage is widely considered a Christian institution. The idea that gay people want to be married is just strange to me. But the fact that marriage gives rights to straight people while excluding gay people is just mind boggling. Christians can have their marriages, but gay people deserve the same legal rights.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
