Dating: How's your luck? - Page 994

On August 04 2018 06:40 L_Master wrote:


This is a whole different can of worms. There are lots of reasons divorce rates are high, and much speculation as to why they have risen so much. I will admit, I don't think it can't work, but I'm jaded about the general success of monogamy/marriage for the vast majority of individuals.

For my part, I do wonder how well we are actually designed for long term monogamy. Rare individuals seem to be able to make it work. For most, it's not that great. I've seen it now twice on different sites, basically a thread related to "post nuptial shutoff". One a running forum, another related to dreams/sleep. On both of these forums, these threads have become by far some of the biggest and longest running topics, to a shocking degree. I also know plenty of people that have experienced this.

I don't believe it's co-incidence, and I don't believe it's "life getting in the way either". Even more so after seeing several huge threads, from the female side, blow up on reddit from a female persepctive basically asking something close to "I don't really feel attracted to my husband anymore", where hundreds of women are going on to talk and in many cases revealing their man is still an otherwise good husband, loving dude, hasn't let himself go, still can see he is attractive, just....don't want to have sex or feel romance toward him anymore.

I haven't looked to see if their is scientific or survey data to go along with this, but it's far, far to big of a phenom for me to ignore. It get's even uglier when you consider that cheating rate is supposedly close to 20% (realistically though in a LTR this is an underestimate), and almost 80% claim they would cheat if they could get away with it. Those are some damning statistics.

From most people I know, have talked to, or otherwise have read about it's around 2-3 years, sometimes a little more, where the relationship largely loses it's sexual side, usually from the women's side. Bottom line is that it seems to me one of two things is going on:

1) Relationships just generally go a bit stale over time and lose their energy - I can see that happening, and might buy it. Still paints an ugly picture. The idea of committing to someone, then finding out 5 years in that almost all romance and attraction is dead is very disconcerting and certainly not something I could accept

2) Something Biological - Honestly, I think this is more likely. It seems conceivable to me that women in general are biologically programmed to lose attraction after around 3-5 years.


Not sure if I'm going anywhere with this, but I saw that comment and wanted to expand on it.

On August 04 2018 08:55 ThunderJunk wrote:


Rofl, you cheated on the main one! Mirror image on the face. Deftly done. Notes taken. Thanks for the reveal.

On August 04 2018 08:40 ThunderJunk wrote:


I agree with you here, dude. I don't think it's any better for the women than the men to delude oneself into believing any relationship is meant to last forever. I think we need to stop looking at divorces as failed marriages, and instead as the natural conclusion of successful marriages. If the children are getting what they need, that's enough.

I think some people stay with the 'good enough' partner to avoid the drama and uncertainty of dating. That's fine, but then they act morally superior about it. That's less fine.

On August 04 2018 07:17 sc-darkness wrote:


There is probably biology involved. I wonder if the cases you cite are based on women who mostly picked men by good looks. For example, what if they focused more on compatible character, would that have helped? Genuinely curious. I doubt it's all doomed and there's nothing to be done.

On August 04 2018 09:58 L_Master wrote:


To be honest, I have no idea, but the number of people talking about it gives me the impression this is a majority, not minority issue. In which case it probably includes a broad sample size of women, and not just those picking guys for looks. While everyone uses looks to some degree, I think the number of women, especially over 25, using looks as a predominate criteria, is relatively small.

I'm also of the opinion, that in general, women are looking for two types of guys. There are guys they have relationships with, aka guys with good provider traits: loyal, good income, stable, emotional capable, consistent, etc. They are generally not as attracted to these guys, but will get in a relationship with them. I think guys like this are at real risk of being cheated on often.

The other type are your classic ""alpha" guys. Looks, status (not money), confidence, aggression (depending on the women), masculinity etc. These are the guys women are generally attracted to sexually, and who women will get involved in ONS/FB or the like with.

On August 04 2018 09:46 Uldridge wrote:
What do you consider a successful marriage exactly? One that lasts until death? One that makes you envy the couple in question? I feel like it's impossible to gauge how well a couple actually fares because you only see snapshots of them together and that's usually when they're on good terms (or are acting really well).
Unless you have strong and consistent inside knowledge it's very difficult to have any kind of actual insight in how (dis)functional a couple is.

One strong reason divorce rates are rising (imo) have to do with the incessant bombarding of instant culture we face every single day. We get promised fame, glamour, wealth, beauty, strength, .. with only minimal effort. It's the same trend in communication; it's all become so easy. And there's a plethora of options on top of that. When you can literally pick and choose in every aspect of life, why wouldn't that spill over in your romantic life?
Open marriages work, traditional marriages work, "professional" marriages work (bonding powerful people/families, ambitious people), even arranged marriages work. It all depends on how much effort you're willing to put into bond where one of its premises is it lasting until death.

There's tons of reasons cheating happens, there's tons of reasons why marriages fail; perhaps it takes a long times for some people to show there true colours (until marriage), perhaps the average life span of a marriage (or human relationship) has to do with the duration it takes to raise a child; perhaps it's to do with having so many options to do from that the grass becomes just a tad too green on the other side to resist it; whatever it is, it's complex and parameters for success or failure can't be pinpointed so easily like: have both parties have less sex drive and let them be career driven.

Edit: the fact that prostitution has existed for so long should have some merit regarding promiscuity of the human species, no? I mean, surely it shouldn't have catered solely to single people right?

Edit2: a strong reason why we're led to belief monogamy is good and virtuous and in need of pursuing might be the embedded Judeo-Christian values that are the foundation of Western society.

On August 04 2018 10:20 Excludos wrote:


What a giant load of absolute shit. The world isn't even remotely this black and white.

Also we are treading dangerously close (if not already over) what the big banner on top tells us not to talk about. Let's stop before the thread is locked shall we?

On August 04 2018 10:30 L_Master wrote:


Very salient points, especially the last bit about knowing how the relationship is going. I'm lucky to have a good number of close friends who will share at least some of this stuff with me, but of course it's still a very small sample of a select group of people.

I would consider a successful marriage one that lasts till death, yes. With rare exception. That exception being the uncommon case where both people truly decide they would like to date other people and move on. Usually relationships end with one person wanting out and the other disappointing, usually involving significant dissatisfaction or boredom beforehand. So if a marriage ends, most of the time it's because it wasn't a good one for at least one party.




How much effort, but also how much your willing to put up with can be a part of it. I've definitely seen people that aren't willing to divorce, and can't work it out stay together and "make it work" by being unhappy. To me that is NOT a successful marriage. That's a shit arrangement.

That's also a tricky point, because if you're too early to leave because shit any great that's not putting any effort in.

I should also add that in many cases it's not possible to work out marriages without resorting to making it work by "suffering up with each other". Many marriages have one party unable, or unwilling to change. Hell I see this in my parents own marriage, they both have some things they want from each other to make things better, both occasionally make efforts to improve them, but can't sustain it.

Which brings me to my definition of successful marriage: A marriage that stays together, or rarely ends mutually and happily, in which both partners are happier and more fulfilled in the marriage than they would be outside of it.




Agree to a point, but these are the commonalities I've seen in marriages that seem to work relatively well. Other factors are certainly at play, but the vast majority of successful marriages as I've defined it seem to come from one of these contexts.

To be clear to, I think most relationships are happy up till the first 3-5 years, I think it's after that where it starts to go downhill. Definitely worse when marriage or moving in together happens. And it's not like shit falls of a cliff, but 3-5 years seems to be the median timeframe where things like boredom, post nuptial shut-off etc. happen. I've also seen marked shifts in how women treat their guys and vice versa around that time. The two years (except in obviously dysfunction relationships) are usually pretty rosey. I've seen some marked and rapid shifts (girl becomes more controlling, "colder", and less sexual; guy becomes more whipped, more resentful, angrier) around that time.



Probably. But keep in mind most cheating also occurs after about 3-5 years in a relationship. In fact by far the most common time to cheat is in the third year of a relationship....for both sexes. Right about the time the female starts to get bored and the male frustrated (due to closing off and worse sex due to boredom). Coincidence? Maybe. Interesting though.

I don't know of much reports or incidents of cheating within the first couple years of a relationship. That's rare.



Would agree 100%. This plays a HUGE role in why monogamy is still an iron societal standard.

On August 04 2018 06:22 L_Master wrote:


Pics:
+ Show Spoiler +

I've also got one other social picture of me jumping into a pool duel wielding squirt guns that I think is great and makes a clear difference in my matches. That's the only picture I think is a really good one. A couple pictures are just shitty selfies, one is okay but kind of a weird location.

On August 04 2018 12:52 GoTuNk! wrote:


I think what everyone gets wrong in the west now is that LTR monogamy is to have thrill and passionate sex. You can have one night stand, short term relationships, hookers, or wathever floats your boat for that.

When you get married it is to have children, build a home, and keep companion to each other as you get old in sickness and health. That's it, you take the trade-off, period. You love your spouse, but you don't want to bang her thrice a day like you do when you meet someone new, or when you first met her.

If you marry someone expecting a lifetime of passionate sex, or worse, your partner marries you expecting that, you will run into massive dissapointment, divorce, cheating or worse.

That's how it used to be, tradition exists for a reason. It works.

On August 04 2018 15:21 Bigtony wrote:


Only 1 good pic? You're literally a 10 dude.

On August 04 2018 05:15 GreenHorizons wrote:


I remember when you were just a lowly virgin with performance anxiety and now your out there like bloodwhore (which I just realized sounds a little gross in this context) the lady slayer.

Your probably one the closest this thread has to a genuine success story regarding taking the advice, applying it, and getting some payoff.

On August 04 2018 15:21 Bigtony wrote: A large portion of guys never even get seen because they get height filtered by insane standards.

On August 04 2018 17:06 bloodwhore~ wrote:

Pro tip: Never mention your height.

On August 04 2018 10:41 L_Master wrote:
If the world isn't like this, why is there such a stigma around nice guys not getting laid? Why do I see the guys that are almost never assertive struggle to get women attracted to them? Why do I see the more relationship, oriented affectionate guys being walked on and used by the woman? Why are those guys the ones I see who get blatantly cheated on the most, by far? Why do I see such a dramatic difference in how women treat their men when that man is confident, traditionally masculine, and assertive; versus how women act and treat their men when that guy is more supplicative, "nice", and introverted"?

These are the things I've seen, I've read about, and I've heard about from other people. Overall, this framework, as a general guide, seems to do a pretty good job explaining that. On the other hand, your post was not helpful and offered nothing. Telling me that my rationale for my observations was a load of shit does nothing for you, nor for me. Offering your own set of explanations for what I observe and why it might work that way would be both productive and interesting rather a total waste of time.