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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned:
1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post.
2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no.
3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture.
4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.
Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
On August 03 2018 07:59 sc-darkness wrote:
And if we assume you're as popular as you say, what prevents you from committing to a long-term relationship? Why do we need to read here about how often you change partners? It's your right, I'm just interested in your explanation.
Was this directed to me or did you forget to quote someone else?
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I'm sorry if I missed the conversation but if I was going to subscribe to a dating app, which would you recommend? I'm looking for a relationship and I'm into women who like alternative culture.
I've tried OKCupid and wasn't very impressed, POF is just too casual and I won't use Tinder or any Facebook based apps.
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On August 03 2018 20:52 Jockmcplop wrote:
I'm sorry if I missed the conversation but if I was going to subscribe to a dating app, which would you recommend? I'm looking for a relationship and I'm into women who like alternative culture.
I've tried OKCupid and wasn't very impressed, POF is just too casual and I won't use Tinder or any Facebook based apps.
I've heard good things about match and eharmony for people looking for something serious.
On a similar note, have any of the people struggling on Tinder paid for the boosting/subscription at all?
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On August 03 2018 22:15 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2018 20:52 Jockmcplop wrote:
I'm sorry if I missed the conversation but if I was going to subscribe to a dating app, which would you recommend? I'm looking for a relationship and I'm into women who like alternative culture.
I've tried OKCupid and wasn't very impressed, POF is just too casual and I won't use Tinder or any Facebook based apps.
I've heard good things about match and eharmony for people looking for something serious. On a similar note, have any of the people struggling on Tinder paid for the boosting/subscription at all?
Oh nice one I hadn't tried eharmony yet. I'll give it a go
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Haven't used it in years, but eharmony costs money for use of all the features, so that's why it's associated with "serious" dating.
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On August 03 2018 22:43 farvacola wrote:
Haven't used it in years, but eharmony costs money for use of all the features, so that's why it's associated with "serious" dating.
I don't mind spending money (depending on how much money of course), if its for a quality product.
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On August 03 2018 20:52 Jockmcplop wrote:
I'm sorry if I missed the conversation but if I was going to subscribe to a dating app, which would you recommend? I'm looking for a relationship and I'm into women who like alternative culture.
I've tried OKCupid and wasn't very impressed, POF is just too casual and I won't use Tinder or any Facebook based apps.
I'd suggest you skip any dating app all together and go to where alternative people hang. Not sure where that is but, some edgy bars, concerts or festivals. Or simply ask them out on the street. I think your dating population online is far to small for it to be even close to efficient if you're alternative.
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On August 03 2018 23:47 bloodwhore~ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2018 20:52 Jockmcplop wrote:
I'm sorry if I missed the conversation but if I was going to subscribe to a dating app, which would you recommend? I'm looking for a relationship and I'm into women who like alternative culture.
I've tried OKCupid and wasn't very impressed, POF is just too casual and I won't use Tinder or any Facebook based apps.
I'd suggest you skip any dating app all together and go to where alternative people hang. Not sure where that is but, some edgy bars, concerts or festivals. Or simply ask them out on the street. I think your dating population online is far to small for it to be even close to efficient if you're alternative.
I suspect you might be right. I'm very introverted though and have trouble with just going where people hang and initiating conversation with strangers. I guess dating isn't really that different.
I'll probably give eharmony a go.
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On August 02 2018 16:08 Bigtony wrote:
After a few days of schedule wrangling I finally had a wonderful date with a pretty lady Monday. Everything is going well - great conversation, we're laughing, we both think the other's career is very interesting, we're finding similar interests and priorities, etc. etc. She orders a second glass of wine, we keep talking. All good. We both have to leave and get to other commitments but I message her later that night with a joke about her adult kickball league and to ask her out again.
"Had a great time blah blah but I didn't feel a spark so I don't want to waste your time."
I have to say this is the most infuriating thing about dating, getting this nebulously definite shut down. You clearly were having a great time, you knew what I looked like before you met up with me (if anything I look better in person though I have no delusions about being a 10), and you say you're looking for someone smart and mature. If you didn't think I was attractive, then why did we have this date in the first place? So smart, mature, and "sparky?"
Having a great time is not the same thing as wanting to date somebody. I'm sure, in your life, you've had friends; both male and female with whom you've had a fucking awesome time, but never wanted to date. I know I have. With guys for the obvious reasons, and with women as well. Generally this was attractiveness, but occasionally was me just sensing certain things and being like "eh, don't know if this would go well if dating".
This is not universal, but by far the most common cause of this is a combination of looks + personality. The fact that you had a great conversation and that she apparently was fine with seeing you again means that you weren't deluding yourself, and that you both did have a good time. The fact that it's "as friends" tells you she doesn't have attraction. Looks are one aspect, but since you met online and she had some idea of what you looked like it's probably the smaller aspect. Which leaves personality.
Generally this means that you came across as too beta/providery/non-dominant/confident/etc. It's a slew of traits that can kill attraction. A very pleasant, fun conversation...but with no signs of sexual tension, dominance, etc. can just kill attraction for many women. It's also possible that during the course of the conversation she either got a feel, or directly heard something, that was a relationship deal breaker for her but thought you were still a cool dude.
As for nebulously shut down, I feel you on it being infuriating. However, two things to understand here:
1) Oftentimes girls don't know why they feel this way, probably more often than guys don't know. The bottom line is that after this conversation she didn't want to fuck you or think about you in a dating context. It's very possible she doesn't know why, so the honest, and only, answer she can give is "I didn't feel a spark". It's basically a more acceptable way of saying "can't put my finger on it, but don't see it working"
2) Other guys. The standard dude, when given a response like "can't tell you why but I don't think it will work", either goes totally nuts, or tries to argue his way out of it. Neither or which women want to deal with. Yes, it's annoying for those of us who would just like to know what happened, but the reality is when 1 in 2 or maybe even 3 in 4 guys go on and on and on and on or get very angry...it's completely understandable women won't give a clear response if she knows why.
Annoying, but quite justified. Blame fellow guys for that one, not the woman.
I wish women understood that the entire dating power dynamic has shifted 100000000% in their favor and they just went out and took what they wanted. (And that dating apps deleted/didn't show dormant profiles)
It's always been "in their favor". Women are inherently the choosier sex biologically. Online dating definitely makes it a little easier for women, although if you're attractive enough as a guy it's actually hilariously skewed in your own favor. Guys a little below to a little above average have it much harder. Generally attractive guys probably have it modestly better. Super attractive or highly successful dudes have it comically easier than everyone else, women included.
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On August 02 2018 21:52 bloodwhore~ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2018 18:50 Bigtony wrote:Clearly I'm so butthurt that I'm seeing her again  No sources, but obviously gay/lesbian dating apps don't really have the same problem at all because there is no expectation that "someone else" will make the move. The same "just keep swiping" attitude exists to a degree obviously. ?? I thought you said she rejected you. Not sure how true that is. Two days ago I met a collegue bathing and stuff and after work her friend came to join us. We sat and talked about tinder a lot, and eventually my collegue wanted to swipe (she loves swiping). Her friend is maybe 7/10 if we're going to be superficial, and lesbian. She had tinder gold and had 100+ who had already swiped right on her. She was sort of picky even though the dating pool for her is vastly smaller than a straight girl. I understand that people have certain types, but she would swipe left on drop dead gorgeous women. It didn't seem like she was talking to that many though, she didn't get any messages during the 1-2hrs we sat there swiping. I think many lesbian girls are still expecting the other one to make the move.
From what I can tell, women are more binary in their choosing. If a guy or girl isn't hot enough, they are a left swipe. Whereas guys will go, eh she is kinda hot maybe I'd date her and swipe right, women just go "nah, not hot enough and swipe left". The swiping left on gorgeous people thing is the "her type" aspect coming into play. Objectively, I'm sure she realizes those people are attractive, but certain types of attractive don't really resonate with certain people. I'm sure we've all seen people we can tell are objectively attractive, but looking at them we don't feel that excited or turned on.
On August 03 2018 01:33 ThunderJunk wrote:
Dating apps like Bumble or Tinder work as validation machines for women. Most girls just hop on them to feel good about themselves. They can just go through life feeling good that many men swiped right on them. Guys are willing to spend hours swiping right on everyone. I really don't get it. Men are bombarded with images of all the women who don't think they're worth it. That's demoralizing. Why do that?
If you're looking for a long-term partnership, why not use a more legit dating site? (Assuming you're not willing to go through the brutal process of learning how to talk to random people in person.)
I don't right swipe everyone. I right swipe perhaps 1/4-1/3 that I find attractive. Of those right swipes, perhaps 1/4-1/6 are "successful" i.e. a match. That to me is the opposite of demoralizing, if anything it's mildly validating.
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Show nested quote +On August 03 2018 01:33 ThunderJunk wrote:
Dating apps like Bumble or Tinder work as validation machines for women. Most girls just hop on them to feel good about themselves. They can just go through life feeling good that many men swiped right on them. Guys are willing to spend hours swiping right on everyone. I really don't get it. Men are bombarded with images of all the women who don't think they're worth it. That's demoralizing. Why do that?
If you're looking for a long-term partnership, why not use a more legit dating site? (Assuming you're not willing to go through the brutal process of learning how to talk to random people in person.) I don't right swipe everyone. I right swipe perhaps 1/4-1/3 that I find attractive. Of those right swipes, perhaps 1/4-1/6 are "successful" i.e. a match. That to me is the opposite of demoralizing, if anything it's mildly validating.
You must have an unusually good set of pictures
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On August 03 2018 05:31 sc-darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2018 21:52 bloodwhore~ wrote:On August 02 2018 18:50 Bigtony wrote:Clearly I'm so butthurt that I'm seeing her again No sources, but obviously gay/lesbian dating apps don't really have the same problem at all because there is no expectation that "someone else" will make the move. The same "just keep swiping" attitude exists to a degree obviously. ?? I thought you said she rejected you. Not sure how true that is. Two days ago I met a collegue bathing and stuff and after work her friend came to join us. We sat and talked about tinder a lot, and eventually my collegue wanted to swipe (she loves swiping). Her friend is maybe 7/10 if we're going to be superficial, and lesbian. She had tinder gold and had 100+ who had already swiped right on her. She was sort of picky even though the dating pool for her is vastly smaller than a straight girl. I understand that people have certain types, but she would swipe left on drop dead gorgeous women. It didn't seem like she was talking to that many though, she didn't get any messages during the 1-2hrs we sat there swiping. I think many lesbian girls are still expecting the other one to make the move. I think this is what Bigtony probably meant. I mean it at least. Girls are so spoiled with online dating that they feel entitled to be superficially picky.
Yes, they have options so they pick the most attractive ones. Let's be real here, if you matched with 95% of girls on Tinder you would also only swipe occasionally and only on the higher attractive girls. You would NOT be swiping on the decent looking girls with the typical 15lbs around their midsection.
Remember, you don't know shit about personality from Tinder, so you're choosing purely based on looks. If you get an acceptable number of dates/matches swiping only mega hotties, of course you're just going to keep swiping mega hotties.
Women are not "entitled" here. They just get what they want because men are more than happy as a group to give them that. Good looking guys, more often than not, are very happy to sleep with a woman who is fairly average. That's not entitlement on women's part, that's being realistic about your options.
Even if they get 100+ matches, they're still going to divorce and complain that men are pigs. "But men really are pigs!!!". Yeah, right, because if you look for the most handsome guy, that doesn't mean you won't get a pig anyway.  In other words, while they're being picky, they're missing the bigger picture. But it's their fault, right? It's their life.
I don't understand how they are missing the bigger picture. You match on Tinder based on looks. So women match these guys that 7/10 or 8/10 instead of 5/10 according to you, and I agree that goes on plenty.
From there, they hang out with them and decide if they want to date them. From that point on, it doesn't matter how someone looks, you're going to screen them in person and decide if you want to date them. If the 8/10 guy is a pig, they are going to dump him (or maybe just see him occasionally for some FWB action because he is super hot). If the guy is a 5/10 and he is a pig, they are going to....also dump him.
Now, if you're saying some women will look past the "flaws" of a shitty personality on a guy who is 8/10, that's true...for some of them. But if that's their priority scheme you can't really say they are wrong. They just value the sexual side over the emotional/relationship side. That's not wrong. It's just a different set of priorities.
So no, I don't think you're missing the bigger picture if you only swipe attractive people. Whether you're missing the bigger pictures depends on:
-Whether you care about the "bigger picture" in the first place
-Whether you're screening people when you actually meet them for good qualities.
Men don't choose women. Women do.
No. It goes both ways. Or it should. If you aren't screening and rejecting women as a man I would suggest you're acting desperate and doing something wrong and detrimental.
- Women feel good about themselves when they get 100+ matches.
For sure. I feel good about me 25+ matches. I can only imagine the 90% right swipes is even more validating.
- Women afford to be picky in this case, they choose the most handsome and/or the funniest guy, forgetting to think about the overall character.
Bold is true. The non bolded part is where I think you're legitimately going a bit nuts if you believe that. Obviously there are some women that date purely for looks/attraction and little else. They are the minority. They also aren't forgetting to look at overall character, they just don't care about that for what they are interested in.
The majority of women do not forget to think about overall character. Although, admittedly women have it kinda wierd/hard because many of the behaviors that turn the vast majority of women on physically/sexually, are very often the same characteristics that make a guy poor material for a long term relationship.
- They regret their choice later in life.
Uh....what? Most relationships last only a year or two, so they don't generally regret this later in life. Moreover, more often than not a women that's average doesn't "lock down" a hot guy for marriage. Vast majority of couples are pretty value matched. So these women matching these hot guys are mostly using them for sex or a fling.
I don't think they regret these flings later in life as a general rule of thumb.
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On August 04 2018 03:22 ThunderJunk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2018 01:33 ThunderJunk wrote:
Dating apps like Bumble or Tinder work as validation machines for women. Most girls just hop on them to feel good about themselves. They can just go through life feeling good that many men swiped right on them. Guys are willing to spend hours swiping right on everyone. I really don't get it. Men are bombarded with images of all the women who don't think they're worth it. That's demoralizing. Why do that?
If you're looking for a long-term partnership, why not use a more legit dating site? (Assuming you're not willing to go through the brutal process of learning how to talk to random people in person.) I don't right swipe everyone. I right swipe perhaps 1/4-1/3 that I find attractive. Of those right swipes, perhaps 1/4-1/6 are "successful" i.e. a match. That to me is the opposite of demoralizing, if anything it's mildly validating. You must have an unusually good set of pictures
I've posted some of them before. I'll post the set later when I am home. I think you get about 50 matches per 12 hours. In that case, 1/5 is a bit high. That would be a really good round, or if after resetting Tinder. Average would be about 1 in 10, since I probably average 5 likes per swipe session.
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On August 03 2018 20:52 Jockmcplop wrote:
I'm sorry if I missed the conversation but if I was going to subscribe to a dating app, which would you recommend? I'm looking for a relationship and I'm into women who like alternative culture.
I've tried OKCupid and wasn't very impressed, POF is just too casual and I won't use Tinder or any Facebook based apps.
OKCupid isn't that bad, but it has bugs that can troll you :D. Literally days ago I wrote here how after having days of meaningful conversation with a girl with similar interests and suddenly out of nowhere the chat disappeared. I thought that she lost interest and she kicked me out, even though she was interested in a date... and because I felt bad with how it ended I said fuck it and made a new account and texted her once. It was kinda awkward and funny, but It turn out that the chat just disappeared by itself, and she thought that I kicked her and got angry with me :D. Well we switched to messenger, and have been communicating non-stop ever since, everything is good, but It takes away from my sleeping time :D.
So just so everyone knows If they invest time with someone on OKCupid, that there is a possibility that your chat could randomly disappear unforced without a trace. And you should switch to a more stable platform if you don't want to be making new accounts just to confirm something like I did :D.
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On August 03 2018 16:25 bloodwhore~ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2018 07:59 sc-darkness wrote:
And if we assume you're as popular as you say, what prevents you from committing to a long-term relationship? Why do we need to read here about how often you change partners? It's your right, I'm just interested in your explanation. Was this directed to me or did you forget to quote someone else?
Yeah, that was a question for you. What prevents you from a relationship which lasts at least a few months or maybe more?
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On August 04 2018 04:44 sc-darkness wrote:
Yeah, that was a question for you. What prevents you from a relationship which lasts at least a few months or maybe more?
Nothing really stops me if I am looking to settle. I've been single all my life though and since I started dating my "standards" have gotten way higher. I'm not going to bother with a girl if I don't believe it will last for a while. Furthermore, it's not like I've always wanted a relationship since I started dating either.
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On August 04 2018 05:08 bloodwhore~ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 04:44 sc-darkness wrote:
Yeah, that was a question for you. What prevents you from a relationship which lasts at least a few months or maybe more? Nothing really stops me if I am looking to settle. I've been single all my life though and since I started dating my "standards" have gotten way higher. I'm not going to bother with a girl if I don't believe it will last for a while. Furthermore, it's not like I've always wanted a relationship since I started dating either.
I remember when you were just a lowly virgin with performance anxiety and now your out there like bloodwhore (which I just realized sounds a little gross in this context) the lady slayer.
Your probably one the closest this thread has to a genuine success story regarding taking the advice, applying it, and getting some payoff.
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On August 04 2018 04:44 sc-darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2018 16:25 bloodwhore~ wrote:On August 03 2018 07:59 sc-darkness wrote:
And if we assume you're as popular as you say, what prevents you from committing to a long-term relationship? Why do we need to read here about how often you change partners? It's your right, I'm just interested in your explanation. Was this directed to me or did you forget to quote someone else? Yeah, that was a question for you. What prevents you from a relationship which lasts at least a few months or maybe more?
I feel some of this. I have a good idea of things I want, and that's not always easy to find. I'm picky about people that are something serious with fitness, and ideally endurance sport. I value someone that has similar taste in music to me. I value someone with a bubbly, outgoing, but friendly personality. To some extent traditional family values are appealing to me, but religiosity is a major turn off if it's strong. Those two tend to go hand in hand which is a problem.
Learning more as I start to open up more and consider dating more women, but for me it's basically an issue of having an idea of what I want and not really willing to settle much, and then the fact that I'm not really keen on not doing anything until I find that person.
I've had relationships that last a few months, I feel it takes at least that long to start to get some feel of how compatible you and the person you're with are. Considering I didn't really date or do anything with women until my early-mid twenties I haven't had any year+ relationships because I haven't found someone that ticks enough boxes.
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On August 04 2018 03:22 ThunderJunk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2018 01:33 ThunderJunk wrote:
Dating apps like Bumble or Tinder work as validation machines for women. Most girls just hop on them to feel good about themselves. They can just go through life feeling good that many men swiped right on them. Guys are willing to spend hours swiping right on everyone. I really don't get it. Men are bombarded with images of all the women who don't think they're worth it. That's demoralizing. Why do that?
If you're looking for a long-term partnership, why not use a more legit dating site? (Assuming you're not willing to go through the brutal process of learning how to talk to random people in person.) I don't right swipe everyone. I right swipe perhaps 1/4-1/3 that I find attractive. Of those right swipes, perhaps 1/4-1/6 are "successful" i.e. a match. That to me is the opposite of demoralizing, if anything it's mildly validating. You must have an unusually good set of pictures
Pics:
+ Show Spoiler +
I've also got one other social picture of me jumping into a pool duel wielding squirt guns that I think is great and makes a clear difference in my matches. That's the only picture I think is a really good one. A couple pictures are just shitty selfies, one is okay but kind of a weird location.
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On August 03 2018 05:31 sc-darkness wrote:
The rate of divorces is quite high. I support this right but it still means a personal failure of judgement in my opinion.
This is a whole different can of worms. There are lots of reasons divorce rates are high, and much speculation as to why they have risen so much. I will admit, I don't think it can't work, but I'm jaded about the general success of monogamy/marriage for the vast majority of individuals.
For my part, I do wonder how well we are actually designed for long term monogamy. Rare individuals seem to be able to make it work. For most, it's not that great. I've seen it now twice on different sites, basically a thread related to "post nuptial shutoff". One a running forum, another related to dreams/sleep. On both of these forums, these threads have become by far some of the biggest and longest running topics, to a shocking degree. I also know plenty of people that have experienced this.
I don't believe it's co-incidence, and I don't believe it's "life getting in the way either". Even more so after seeing several huge threads, from the female side, blow up on reddit from a female persepctive basically asking something close to "I don't really feel attracted to my husband anymore", where hundreds of women are going on to talk and in many cases revealing their man is still an otherwise good husband, loving dude, hasn't let himself go, still can see he is attractive, just....don't want to have sex or feel romance toward him anymore.
I haven't looked to see if their is scientific or survey data to go along with this, but it's far, far to big of a phenom for me to ignore. It get's even uglier when you consider that cheating rate is supposedly close to 20% (realistically though in a LTR this is an underestimate), and almost 80% claim they would cheat if they could get away with it. Those are some damning statistics.
From most people I know, have talked to, or otherwise have read about it's around 2-3 years, sometimes a little more, where the relationship largely loses it's sexual side, usually from the women's side. Bottom line is that it seems to me one of two things is going on:
1) Relationships just generally go a bit stale over time and lose their energy - I can see that happening, and might buy it. Still paints an ugly picture. The idea of committing to someone, then finding out 5 years in that almost all romance and attraction is dead is very disconcerting and certainly not something I could accept
2) Something Biological - Honestly, I think this is more likely. It seems conceivable to me that women in general are biologically programmed to lose attraction after around 3-5 years.
Not sure if I'm going anywhere with this, but I saw that comment and wanted to expand on it.
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