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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned:
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Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
On April 26 2018 05:15 bloodwhore~ wrote:
> Not personally attacking you
> Goes on personal attack
Alright man.
Tone down my opinions? They aren't even that controversial. I haven't heard a single good argument against them so far either. I'm afraid people being insecure about getting ghosted just isn't cutting it for me.
Well, you got what you asked for, didn't you? You were a bit aggressive with your posts (it's the internet, so it's the best I could do without face to face interaction), so you got a post which targets you specifically.
On the other hand, if you bothered to write your post like Uldridge whose post I find nice, yet it has opposite view of mine, then I and some people here would have argued with you and other people less. Your mistake was to present your arguments with a bit too much emotion which triggered defensive posts not just from me. Is anyone going to respond to Uldridge in the same way? I won't at least.
Short story: more focus on ideas, less focus on emotions if you really want a meaningful and polite conversation. Of course, neither me nor you owe each other anything. That's just a suggestion to keep the discussion going properly from both sides.
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On April 26 2018 05:30 sc-darkness wrote:
Well, you got what you asked for, didn't you? You were a bit aggressive with your posts (it's the internet, so it's the best I could do without face to face interaction), so you got a post which targets you specifically.
On the other hand, if you bothered to write your post like Uldridge whose post I find nice, yet it has opposite view of mine, then I and some people here would have argued with you and other people less. Your mistake was to present your arguments with a bit too much emotion which triggered defensive posts not just from me. Is anyone going to respond to Uldridge in the same way? I won't at least.
Short story: more focus on ideas, less focus on emotions if you really want a meaningful and polite conversation. Of course, neither me nor you owe each other anything. That's just a suggestion to keep the discussion going properly from both sides.
In what way did I get what I asked for?
Don't worry, I don't get upset about things like this. Just pointing out your inconsistencies.
All I've been doing is been telling inexperienced people what tinder is like. If you scroll back 3-4 years in this thread you will find that I was as insecure and inexperienced as well. Getting upset over people stop talking to you etc.
There is very little emotions from my part other than confusion of how one can misinterpret some things so badly. You're definitely welcome to try to persuade girls to reject you in a more respectable manner, but I'm confident it will not work out as you want.
I don't really see how you fail to see my points I'm trying to make. These are my points.
1. Ghosting is normal on tinder. This will not change. If you think it will change you are slightly delusional.
2. The reason is because a lot of men react badly to rejection.
3. If you're still upset about someone ghosting. Think "Wow, that's rude, fuck that person." and move on.
4. Functionality for "last active" is a SHIT idea. They had it, they removed it for a reason.
5. I don't like people who ghost either. Have I ghosted myself? Hell yes.
6. I think it's fine to stop talking to people you haven't met.
7. I think it's rude to ghost if you've actually been on a REAL date once or twice.
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Cool, but I still think Tinder's culture should change because it's socially awkward to stop responding or not even reply.
They liked me, I made the effort to message them first and came up with some message other than generic "hi, how are you?". That costs time. Just because it's the trend to ghost doesn't make it more acceptable, so I prefer if I unmatch her or if she unmatches me. Either way, as long as "conversation" ends. Assuming she is active on Tinder daily or every other day. If not, then it's not really ghosting but just inactivity.
On another note, I don't see how it helps if they keep matches because it violates your logic that they want to be protected from abusive men. What stops me from insulting them right now if they didn't unmatch me? In my opinion, not unmatching someone is a half-baked attempt to ghost someone. I just don't understand it and you've not explained it to me yet.
Also, someone asked why I don't invite a girl to a date after 2-3 messages on Tinder. Well, I don't see how this could have 50% success at least. As far as I know, girls want to connect emotionally and I don't see how this could happen with 2-3 short messages or even normal messages. True, I've not been on a Tinder date yet, so I'm not an example. I'm only applying logic from my perspective.
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Why not use a different online dating tool or take some other approach entirely?
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I've tried Badoo which is very similar to Tinder. Its biggest turn-off is that it ignores distance. Every now and then I like some girl and she likes me, only to find out she lives in the middle or the other side of the country. I can't be bothered, especially when I'm not driving at the moment. I ended a long distance relationship 2 months ago, so I try to stay away from those.
OKCupid is mentioned a lot, but it's not popular in my country. I'm trying my luck on a local website to see what happens and also Tinder. That's it for me.
Coworkers that I like are in relationships, so no chance there. That's why I have to endure online dating. :D
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darkness, I think IgnE already gave you the best advice. Most women, and people in general, don't really want to be bothered having a conversation with a stranger over a dating app or even with an acquaintance over text. A couple texts to make sure she has a pulse, and then if you want to go on a date, ask her on a date. If you want an emotional connection it has to be forged face-to-face. You're going to get rejected a lot; I mean I get rejected a lot, and I'm stunningly handsome and charming. When it happens just move on.
On April 26 2018 00:36 IgnE wrote:
stop trying to have conversations with women on tinder. have conversations in person. after 2-3 messages that test basic literacy and decency you should be trying to meet with them. they will either agree to meet or not. then you can move on. complaining about ghosting during the texting phase is silly and desperate.
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On April 26 2018 07:09 sc-darkness wrote:
Cool, but I still think Tinder's culture should change because it's socially awkward to stop responding or not even reply.
They liked me, I made the effort to message them first and came up with some message other than generic "hi, how are you?". That costs time. Just because it's the trend to ghost doesn't make it more acceptable, so I prefer if I unmatch her or if she unmatches me. Either way, as long as "conversation" ends. Assuming she is active on Tinder daily or every other day. If not, then it's not really ghosting but just inactivity.
On another note, I don't see how it helps if they keep matches because it violates your logic that they want to be protected from abusive men. What stops me from insulting them right now if they didn't unmatch me? In my opinion, not unmatching someone is a half-baked attempt to ghost someone. I just don't understand it and you've not explained it to me yet.
Also, someone asked why I don't invite a girl to a date after 2-3 messages on Tinder. Well, I don't see how this could have 50% success at least. As far as I know, girls want to connect emotionally and I don't see how this could happen with 2-3 short messages or even normal messages. True, I've not been on a Tinder date yet, so I'm not an example. I'm only applying logic from my perspective.
You're putting way more effort than anyone else is. You make it sound like you're disappointed that they don't even respond.
Matching does NOT mean she likes you. It could be a wrong swipe. Or just she was on a roll and was thinking "meh doesn't hurt". The cheerleading effect is very real as well. I removed 30 people for my tinder yesterday that I had no intention of talking to purely because if I actually took my time looking at their profile I'd realize that I wanted nothing to do with them.
What stops it is that most guys will think there is still a chance. If they don't flip she might return your messages at a later date.
You can definitely get a date within a few messages. I usually aim for asking girls out within 10 messages.
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Hey guys pro tip: don’t text ur crush when ur drunk
Duck duck duck duck duxj
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On April 26 2018 02:27 bloodwhore~ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2018 01:24 Excludos wrote:
For me I've not gotten part the first message yet.. at this point I'm not quite sure what exactly you're suppose to do. You'd think people who matches are at least willing to start a simple conversation. Your pictures are not good enough. Simple as that. You are delusional if you think what you write matters to a great deal. It's like 95% pictures, 5% being suave.
I would love it if you could stop talking to people like an asshole. It would be equally easy for you not to include the word "delusional" and get the exact same point across without making me annoyed.
It's also the completele wrong point. Of course pictures matters on Tinder. It's literally the only thing you go on when swiping. But we are talking after swiping here. If you've swiped right on someone, you obviously have some kind of attraction to them..so why immediately ignore them after? This is the problem I have with Tinder. Not the premise, or that it's superficial, but that people using it seems to have no interests in actually dating.
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On April 26 2018 17:43 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2018 02:27 bloodwhore~ wrote:On April 26 2018 01:24 Excludos wrote:
For me I've not gotten part the first message yet.. at this point I'm not quite sure what exactly you're suppose to do. You'd think people who matches are at least willing to start a simple conversation. Your pictures are not good enough. Simple as that. You are delusional if you think what you write matters to a great deal. It's like 95% pictures, 5% being suave. I would love it if you could stop talking to people like an asshole. It would be equally easy for you not to include the word "delusional" and get the exact same point across without making me annoyed. It's also the completele wrong point. Of course pictures matters on Tinder. It's literally the only thing you go on when swiping. But we are talking after swiping here. If you've swiped right on someone, you obviously have some kind of attraction to them..so why immediately ignore them after? This is the problem I have with Tinder. Not the premise, or that it's superficial, but that people using it seems to have no interests in actually dating.
Really? Because the people I know who used Tinder only ever swiped left on photos they were definitely not attracted to. Everybody else got swiped right, and would get reevaluated when matched. Given that these were guys, that reevaluation happened before sending a message, because in most cases the guy is still expected to make the first move. I guess in those rare cases the girl messaged first, they'd reply, because it's unusual and unusual things are interesting.
So I'm sure there's also girls complaining about guys matching, but never messaging them. Just not here, because this is TL sausagefiesta
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No, swiping right means: "I won't change the side of the street to avoid that person."
And the second look then filters a lot.
And even if the guy survived that second look, if the guy then starts with "Hi"-"Hi"-"How are you?" this is equivalent to the guy on the side walk opening with "The end is near, only the lord and saviour can rescue your poor soul, let us talk about god."
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On April 26 2018 17:43 Excludos wrote:
I would love it if you could stop talking to people like an asshole. It would be equally easy for you not to include the word "delusional" and get the exact same point across without making me annoyed.
Sorry, my bad. I have gotten so tired of people wondering why they are not doing well on tinder on reddit /r/tinder. People just can't seem to understand that what you say has little impact on how easy it will be for you to get a date with someone compared to taking better pictures.
It's also the completele wrong point. Of course pictures matters on Tinder. It's literally the only thing you go on when swiping. But we are talking after swiping here. If you've swiped right on someone, you obviously have some kind of attraction to them..so why immediately ignore them after? This is the problem I have with Tinder. Not the premise, or that it's superficial, but that people using it seems to have no interests in actually dating.
And this is where you are wrong in my opinion. Matching with someone rarely means anything. It does not mean she finds you attractive and interesting. You simply got over the first hurdle. It's the second filtering which is actually hard to bypass. (like mahrgell said)
Lets put it this way. Imagine you start a new account, within 3 days you have 100 matches. 95% of them have already started talking to you within 3 hours of matching. How many of these girls do you think you will give 100% of your focus to? Will you kindly reject the rest saying that you are busy with other girls in the mean time? Will you do as sc-darkness thinks you should do and remove the girls you're not interested in right now. Or should you keep them on the back burner in case the girls you actually talk to turns out to be creepy?
This is the reality for women on tinder. You do not have a good time on tinder because there are so many other guys who are better looking than you. In the off chance, you could maybe get a date with a girl purely by your skills in text. Most of the time, she has the ability to be extremely picky and why on earth would she choose a less attractive guy when she can pick one of the really attractive guys who swiped right on her. This is also why you might feel like you're dating below your own attractiveness online, but in real you might be able to get cuter girls. It's supply and demand.
I honestly urge you to test out and create an account as either a really attractive male or as a girl on tinder, bumble, match.com and see for yourself. It will change the way you perceive online dating a lot, and it will help you realize what you are doing right and what you are doing wrong. If you create an account as a girl you will see that you get tooons of attention, one might think you could imagine how much you get, its not even close. As for creating an account as a male, you will realize that you can get away with practically anything in terms of texting. You can be extremely assertive and girls will just drop like flies just at the thought of meeting you. You can be super fucking creepy and still get dates. What you say simply does not matter at this point.
Of course, no matter how good pictures you take, you will most likely never approach the attractivness as a model. However, you can get closer.
To answer your last statement. I do not believe that they are not interested in meeting anyone. I believe they are just not interested in dating you or me. And the reason is because they are more interested in someone else.
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You can be extremely assertive and girls will just drop like flies just at the thought of meeting you. You can be super fucking creepy and still get dates. What you say simply does not matter at this point.
While I generally agree with Bloodwhore on a lot recently (oh boy, has he grown, read what he wrote 2 years ago here... ), this is the part where I consider him wrong.
It is true, there isn't one correct thing to say, and as he said, you can go assertive, creepy, funny, whatever. But... This is all kinda "special" and not boring.
The key idea here is: You have to land in the girls top 10% (or whatever value) so she even cares about you. There is only IN and OUT. If you are OUT, it doesn't matter if you were at top 40% or bottom 10%. Those "special" styles bloodwhore described have a good chance to throw you into the bottom 10% for a lot of girls. But also just hit the right spot for the others. "Hi"-"Hi"-"How are you" is pretty much guaranteed to land you at deep in the middle (and thats OUT) in the online world, simply due to the huge numbers. Nobody wants to have that conversation the 50th time a day, unless you are Leonardo DiCaprio.
So year text game imho really matters and can really help you out a lot, even if you aren't a 9/10 on your pics. This doesn't make your pics less important... It just means that if you are simply average there, even if you did your best... you can still stand out with your texts.
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+1 Swipes mean nothing
I used swiping bots when I was on Tinder
Neither does exchanging a few lines of text
Long messaging rarely goes anywhere either
Totally agree with a few texts, see the person IRL ASAP.
No chemistry = bye ggnore after one drink, don't waste each other's time (unless you're after 1 night stands).
If you don't like this and it feels shallow and impersonal, Tinder is not for you
Get sites you're matched by interests and preferences instead of looks.
Or you know o meet people IRL, which is by far the superior way anyways if strong mutual personal attraction is what you are after
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Ok, on to the subject of texts: Do you guys have one well thought out opener that you use for every match, or do you try to personalize them? I've tried to do the latter, by either commenting on a picture or in the rare cases they have a bio, but seeing as no one is replying to me that might not be the best approach either.
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On April 26 2018 21:03 Excludos wrote:
Ok, on to the subject of texts: Do you guys have one well thought out opener that you use for every match, or do you try to personalize them? I've tried to do the latter, by either commenting on a picture or in the rare cases they have a bio, but seeing as no one is replying to me that might not be the best approach either.
id like to use this as an argument against people being offended by ghosting, if i may.
the understanding of the platform behind the words in your post is really the heart of the issue here. it isn’t meant to be the most personal way of meeting a person. you’re looking for a little validation here that sometimes the personal touch is a little too far/or the recipient hasn’t made it easy enough for you. (which, highly agree. as like all rules, there are exceptions. sometimes the juice is worth the squeeze.)
id like to make this same argument *for* ghosting. and like those before me, specifically immediately after matching//before moving past the app. sometimes the personal touch is a little too far or the recipient just hasn’t made it easy enough. hell sometimes swiping was a mistake.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Tinder used primarily as a hookup app, rather than a long-term/ romance/ dating intended app? The functionality of superficially objectifying every potential match by their looks, before any mention of shared hobbies or passions or values is established, seems to support that Tinder's niche is used more for flings. If that's how Tinder is viewed and used by most people, then I'm not at all surprised that users won't be super exclusive with who they swipe right for, and then ignore many of them later once they figure out who they find most attractive looking.
Am I mistaken here? I've never used online dating apps, but my friends who do- and are looking for actual commitments and potential long-term relationships- specifically don't use Tinder.
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On April 26 2018 21:03 Excludos wrote:
Ok, on to the subject of texts: Do you guys have one well thought out opener that you use for every match, or do you try to personalize them? I've tried to do the latter, by either commenting on a picture or in the rare cases they have a bio, but seeing as no one is replying to me that might not be the best approach either.
Personalized is better. Showing that you read something on their profile or actually paid attention is a good thing, and can offer easy jumping off points for conversation.
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On April 26 2018 22:59 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Tinder used primarily as a hookup app, rather than a long-term/ romance/ dating intended app? The functionality of superficially objectifying every potential match by their looks, before any mention of shared hobbies or passions or values is established, seems to support that Tinder's niche is used more for flings. If that's how Tinder is viewed and used by most people, then I'm not at all surprised that users won't be super exclusive with who they swipe right for, and then ignore many of them later once they figure out who they find most attractive looking.
Am I mistaken here? I've never used online dating apps, but my friends who do- and are looking for actual commitments and potential long-term relationships- specifically don't use Tinder.
Kind of, but keep in mind that it still tends to be the most viable game in town. The “swipe app” online dating platform is what everyone is trying to emulate these days and Tinder does that best.
People used to speak in glowing terms about Okcupid for example, but they recently made some colossally stupid design decisions that made it significantly worse. Most of the rest just suck.
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On April 26 2018 21:03 Excludos wrote:
Ok, on to the subject of texts: Do you guys have one well thought out opener that you use for every match, or do you try to personalize them? I've tried to do the latter, by either commenting on a picture or in the rare cases they have a bio, but seeing as no one is replying to me that might not be the best approach either.
Not really. I either try to find something unique in their bio, or bring up something topical. Lets say its close to valentines day, you can go "Got a date for valentines yet?". I usually try to open with some question as well.
Today I opened with "Are you good at high jump?". The girl didn't have anything in her bio, she didn't even look like a high jumper. It's just a "Who the fuck asks that?" question which will get her attention.
While I generally agree with Bloodwhore on a lot recently (oh boy, has he grown, read what he wrote 2 years ago here... ), this is the part where I consider him wrong.
On April 26 2018 05:56 bloodwhore~ wrote:
All I've been doing is been telling inexperienced people what tinder is like. If you scroll back 3-4 years in this thread you will find that I was as insecure and inexperienced as well. Getting upset over people stop talking to you etc.
I agree  .
To comment you though. Yeah I am a bit hyperbolic when I write about this. But it's mostly so that people will focus more on their pictures. I think it is futile to try to be unique and aim on making your text game amazing instead of getting really good photos. Once you have photos to which you look at and say "what the fuck, i don't look nearly that good in reality." then by all means work on your text game :D
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EPT
