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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned:
1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post.
2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no.
3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture.
4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.
Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
On June 08 2013 05:24 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 05:17 sunprince wrote:On June 08 2013 04:18 Shiori wrote:On June 08 2013 01:07 Narobz wrote:
This is turning into a "try to figure out a woman's' mind thread" and guys, i'm telling you, you won't figure it out. Actually it's not very difficult to apply the sorts of tricks pioneered by mentalists to seduce men or women by fabricating a persona that appears much more attractive than its depth warrants. Of course, doing this essentially makes the PUA in question guilty of considering people nothing more than means to the end of his/her pleasure, which, to my mind, is fairly unethical. "Actually it's not very difficult to apply the sorts of tricks pioneered by mentalists to advertise a product. Of course, doing this essentially makes the advertiser in guilty of considering people nothing more than means to the end of his/her profit, which, to my mind, is fairly unethical" Can you spot the flaw with this sort of reasoning? Yup. You're, as I mentioned, equivocating human beings with products i.e. objects, for one, so the analogy fails. And, frankly, I do consider certain forms of advertisement to be unethical, which is why I quit the one sales-oriented job I've ever had. I won't try to trick people into buying things they don't need.
You misread the analogy. The target of the advertising is a human being, just as the target of seduction.
On June 08 2013 05:24 Shiori wrote:
It's one thing to present yourself in the best authentic way that you can. It's another thing to use psychological games to trick someone into sleeping with you (e.g. "negging," etc)
You're creating an artificial difference between the two, when there is none. Everyone engages in impression management and plays psychological games consciously and unconsciously, and if everyone does it at least unconsciously then it cannot be unethical. If trying to get others to sleep with you by managing their impression of you is unethical, then that would make make-up, high heels, and push-up bras unethical for the same reason. Would you argue that?
Further, you are crediting so-called psychological "tricks" with the powers of mind control, which is nonsense. "Negging" is essentially calculated teasing, and I don't suppose you'd call little boys unethical for pulling on girls' ponytails, would you?
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On June 08 2013 05:33 IPA wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 05:13 sunprince wrote:On June 08 2013 04:23 IPA wrote:
I have never had a problem finding and dating attractive, interesting women. I am not a PUA and have never done anything other than be myself. I am in a band which helps but I don't prey on hangers on or groupies. I'm 30, tall, bald, intelligent and talented. I like myself and I think girls like that.
Just here to say you don't have to be a predatorial dbag or engage in brodude mind-games to get women. Be yourself and, more importantly, like yourself -- and they will like you. You're in the prime of your life, tall, intelligent, and in a band? This sums it up: http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3pfhy4/ I get it. But I'm also a bald man (typically not highly rated on the ole' desirability scale). I'm also slightly introverted and I play SC2 at a masters level -- love having that conversation with women.  So while I do think I am a guy with a lot going for him, I just wanted to make the point that I'm certainly not the handsome devil used in the meme (or really anything close to that). I'm a talented nerd with confidence. I think that sums it up.
Well, if it helps, confidence is the single most useful trait in almost any social scenario.
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On June 08 2013 05:25 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 05:13 sunprince wrote:On June 08 2013 04:23 IPA wrote:
I have never had a problem finding and dating attractive, interesting women. I am not a PUA and have never done anything other than be myself. I am in a band which helps but I don't prey on hangers on or groupies. I'm 30, tall, bald, intelligent and talented. I like myself and I think girls like that.
Just here to say you don't have to be a predatorial dbag or engage in brodude mind-games to get women. Be yourself and, more importantly, like yourself -- and they will like you. You're in the prime of your life, tall, intelligent, and in a band? This sums it up: http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3pfhy4/ He's 30 and bald. Doesn't sound "prime" to me. Truth is, everybody has at least one thing going for them. Mixing that with a level of self-worth and pride will bring out those good qualities, and personal preferences of the opposite sex will do the rest.
Male pattern baldness is an indicator of high testosterone, something that would be supported by the rest of the information he gave. It's also an indicator of age, which generally is attractive to women since it represents social status.
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On June 08 2013 05:26 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 05:18 sunprince wrote:On June 08 2013 00:52 TheFish7 wrote:
My problem with these PUA's is that many of them are just lying to themselves about what they're really after. My buddy who gets laid the most of anyone I know does so probably because his father left him and his mom as a little kid. He has to make up for that lack of acceptance and affection somehow, right? Lie to women to get laid but for shits sake don't lie to yourself. Slut shaming 101. If someone has a high sex drive, it must be because they have mental problems, amirite? If you view other human beings as nothing more than objects of sexual desire, then you definitely have mental problems. There's nothing wrong with sleeping around as such, provided it's consensual, but viewing people as simply things to fuck is repulsive and indicative of narcissism, bad ethics, or both. Mind you, I'm not sure what the person you quoted was going for, but that's the way I read it. Lying to women to get laid is, of course, repulsive as well.
Viewing other human beings as objects of sexual desire ≠ viewing other human beings as nothing more than objects of sexual desire.
Your bias is rather obvious in your unwarranted assumptions that (a) the person in question views people as simply things to fuck and (b) that they lie to women to get laid.
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On June 08 2013 05:37 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 05:25 aksfjh wrote:On June 08 2013 05:13 sunprince wrote:On June 08 2013 04:23 IPA wrote:
I have never had a problem finding and dating attractive, interesting women. I am not a PUA and have never done anything other than be myself. I am in a band which helps but I don't prey on hangers on or groupies. I'm 30, tall, bald, intelligent and talented. I like myself and I think girls like that.
Just here to say you don't have to be a predatorial dbag or engage in brodude mind-games to get women. Be yourself and, more importantly, like yourself -- and they will like you. You're in the prime of your life, tall, intelligent, and in a band? This sums it up: http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3pfhy4/ He's 30 and bald. Doesn't sound "prime" to me. Truth is, everybody has at least one thing going for them. Mixing that with a level of self-worth and pride will bring out those good qualities, and personal preferences of the opposite sex will do the rest. Male pattern baldness is an indicator of high testosterone, something that would be supported by the rest of the information he gave. It's also an indicator of age, which generally is attractive to women since it represents social status.
Nice spin. I'm not buying it though.
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On June 08 2013 05:41 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 05:37 sunprince wrote:On June 08 2013 05:25 aksfjh wrote:On June 08 2013 05:13 sunprince wrote:On June 08 2013 04:23 IPA wrote:
I have never had a problem finding and dating attractive, interesting women. I am not a PUA and have never done anything other than be myself. I am in a band which helps but I don't prey on hangers on or groupies. I'm 30, tall, bald, intelligent and talented. I like myself and I think girls like that.
Just here to say you don't have to be a predatorial dbag or engage in brodude mind-games to get women. Be yourself and, more importantly, like yourself -- and they will like you. You're in the prime of your life, tall, intelligent, and in a band? This sums it up: http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3pfhy4/ He's 30 and bald. Doesn't sound "prime" to me. Truth is, everybody has at least one thing going for them. Mixing that with a level of self-worth and pride will bring out those good qualities, and personal preferences of the opposite sex will do the rest. Male pattern baldness is an indicator of high testosterone, something that would be supported by the rest of the information he gave. It's also an indicator of age, which generally is attractive to women since it represents social status. Nice spin. I'm not buying it though.
Your mistake is assuming that women have the same criteria as men. A bald 30-year-old woman is not attractive to the majority of men. The same is not true the other way around.
There is a reason why there are a number of male celebrities who favor a bald look when they could easily afford to do something about it should they choose. There's also a reason that film, television, and other media portray bald men attractively nearly infinitely more often than they do women.
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On June 08 2013 05:35 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 05:24 Shiori wrote:On June 08 2013 05:17 sunprince wrote:On June 08 2013 04:18 Shiori wrote:On June 08 2013 01:07 Narobz wrote:
This is turning into a "try to figure out a woman's' mind thread" and guys, i'm telling you, you won't figure it out. Actually it's not very difficult to apply the sorts of tricks pioneered by mentalists to seduce men or women by fabricating a persona that appears much more attractive than its depth warrants. Of course, doing this essentially makes the PUA in question guilty of considering people nothing more than means to the end of his/her pleasure, which, to my mind, is fairly unethical. "Actually it's not very difficult to apply the sorts of tricks pioneered by mentalists to advertise a product. Of course, doing this essentially makes the advertiser in guilty of considering people nothing more than means to the end of his/her profit, which, to my mind, is fairly unethical" Can you spot the flaw with this sort of reasoning? Yup. You're, as I mentioned, equivocating human beings with products i.e. objects, for one, so the analogy fails. And, frankly, I do consider certain forms of advertisement to be unethical, which is why I quit the one sales-oriented job I've ever had. I won't try to trick people into buying things they don't need. You misread the analogy. The target of the advertising is a human being, just as the target of seduction. Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 05:24 Shiori wrote:
It's one thing to present yourself in the best authentic way that you can. It's another thing to use psychological games to trick someone into sleeping with you (e.g. "negging," etc) You're creating an artificial difference between the two, when there is none. Everyone engages in impression management and plays psychological games consciously and unconsciously, and if everyone does it at least unconsciously then it cannot be unethical. If trying to get others to sleep with you by managing their impression of you is unethical, then that would make make-up, high heels, and push-up bras unethical for the same reason. Would you argue that? Further, you are crediting so-called psychological "tricks" with the powers of mind control, which is nonsense. "Negging" is essentially calculated teasing, and I don't suppose you'd call little boys unethical for pulling on girls' ponytails, would you?
Depends what you mean by "impression management." If you mean emphasizing your positive character traits, then by all means, go for it. If you mean deliberately making statements that mislead others into thinking you have a particular trait that you actually don't have, then yes, that's unethical. You appear to be using a very broad definition of "psychological games" to suit your point, which seems to have been your general tactic throughout this debate. Nobody is discounting that human beings engage in action-response subconscious psychological behaviours on an interpersonal level. But the key thing here is that these are motivated by the genuine character of that person's psychology, which is to say they are an organic part of that person's self (hence their being subconscious). Conversely, deliberately employing psychological know-how to give the impression of candidness or interest or camaraderie is necessarily not genuine because, if it were, you wouldn't need to contrive it; it would arise from your psyche.
In the same way that a mentalist could convince an ignorant person that they can communicate with a deceased relative (which is unethical) an idealized mentalist who can exploit perceived vulnerabilities gleaned by cold/hot reading of a potential sexual target is unethical because they are operating on a pretense of genuine psychological interaction but, in reality, aren't really engaging on an authentic level at all. In this sort of interaction, the mentalist says things he/she believes will bring him/her closer to the goal of intercourse, even if those things are not true or misleading. This, to me, is the line at which psychological games become unethical. If you are deceiving someone about your motives, traits, abilities, or interests in order to sleep with them, you are unethical.
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On June 08 2013 05:46 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 05:41 aksfjh wrote:On June 08 2013 05:37 sunprince wrote:On June 08 2013 05:25 aksfjh wrote:On June 08 2013 05:13 sunprince wrote:On June 08 2013 04:23 IPA wrote:
I have never had a problem finding and dating attractive, interesting women. I am not a PUA and have never done anything other than be myself. I am in a band which helps but I don't prey on hangers on or groupies. I'm 30, tall, bald, intelligent and talented. I like myself and I think girls like that.
Just here to say you don't have to be a predatorial dbag or engage in brodude mind-games to get women. Be yourself and, more importantly, like yourself -- and they will like you. You're in the prime of your life, tall, intelligent, and in a band? This sums it up: http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3pfhy4/ He's 30 and bald. Doesn't sound "prime" to me. Truth is, everybody has at least one thing going for them. Mixing that with a level of self-worth and pride will bring out those good qualities, and personal preferences of the opposite sex will do the rest. Male pattern baldness is an indicator of high testosterone, something that would be supported by the rest of the information he gave. It's also an indicator of age, which generally is attractive to women since it represents social status. Nice spin. I'm not buying it though. Your mistake is assuming that women have the same criteria as men. A bald 30-year-old woman is not attractive to the majority of men. The same is not true the other way around. There is a reason why there are a number of male celebrities who favor a bald look when they could easily afford to do something about it should they choose. There's also a reason that film, television, and other media portray bald men attractively nearly infinitely more often than they do women.
And those reasons can't be cultural, or have anything to do with the fact that men lose their hairs earlier. It has to be some kind of evolutionnary behavior, and there are serious studies that show it and you're going to provide me a link which won't make me laugh.
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On June 08 2013 05:50 corumjhaelen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 05:46 sunprince wrote:On June 08 2013 05:41 aksfjh wrote:On June 08 2013 05:37 sunprince wrote:On June 08 2013 05:25 aksfjh wrote:On June 08 2013 05:13 sunprince wrote:On June 08 2013 04:23 IPA wrote:
I have never had a problem finding and dating attractive, interesting women. I am not a PUA and have never done anything other than be myself. I am in a band which helps but I don't prey on hangers on or groupies. I'm 30, tall, bald, intelligent and talented. I like myself and I think girls like that.
Just here to say you don't have to be a predatorial dbag or engage in brodude mind-games to get women. Be yourself and, more importantly, like yourself -- and they will like you. You're in the prime of your life, tall, intelligent, and in a band? This sums it up: http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3pfhy4/ He's 30 and bald. Doesn't sound "prime" to me. Truth is, everybody has at least one thing going for them. Mixing that with a level of self-worth and pride will bring out those good qualities, and personal preferences of the opposite sex will do the rest. Male pattern baldness is an indicator of high testosterone, something that would be supported by the rest of the information he gave. It's also an indicator of age, which generally is attractive to women since it represents social status. Nice spin. I'm not buying it though. Your mistake is assuming that women have the same criteria as men. A bald 30-year-old woman is not attractive to the majority of men. The same is not true the other way around. There is a reason why there are a number of male celebrities who favor a bald look when they could easily afford to do something about it should they choose. There's also a reason that film, television, and other media portray bald men attractively nearly infinitely more often than they do women. And those reasons can't be cultural, or have anything to do with the fact that men lose their hairs earlier. It has to be some kind of evolutionnary behavior, and there are serious studies that show it and you're going to provide me a link which won't make me laugh.
Sunprice is rather good at making everything fit into his overarching narrative of human interaction. Even though it's repugnant to me, I won't deny that the guy clearly does have a pretty consistent system.
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On June 08 2013 05:48 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 05:35 sunprince wrote:On June 08 2013 05:24 Shiori wrote:On June 08 2013 05:17 sunprince wrote:On June 08 2013 04:18 Shiori wrote:On June 08 2013 01:07 Narobz wrote:
This is turning into a "try to figure out a woman's' mind thread" and guys, i'm telling you, you won't figure it out. Actually it's not very difficult to apply the sorts of tricks pioneered by mentalists to seduce men or women by fabricating a persona that appears much more attractive than its depth warrants. Of course, doing this essentially makes the PUA in question guilty of considering people nothing more than means to the end of his/her pleasure, which, to my mind, is fairly unethical. "Actually it's not very difficult to apply the sorts of tricks pioneered by mentalists to advertise a product. Of course, doing this essentially makes the advertiser in guilty of considering people nothing more than means to the end of his/her profit, which, to my mind, is fairly unethical" Can you spot the flaw with this sort of reasoning? Yup. You're, as I mentioned, equivocating human beings with products i.e. objects, for one, so the analogy fails. And, frankly, I do consider certain forms of advertisement to be unethical, which is why I quit the one sales-oriented job I've ever had. I won't try to trick people into buying things they don't need. You misread the analogy. The target of the advertising is a human being, just as the target of seduction. On June 08 2013 05:24 Shiori wrote:
It's one thing to present yourself in the best authentic way that you can. It's another thing to use psychological games to trick someone into sleeping with you (e.g. "negging," etc) You're creating an artificial difference between the two, when there is none. Everyone engages in impression management and plays psychological games consciously and unconsciously, and if everyone does it at least unconsciously then it cannot be unethical. If trying to get others to sleep with you by managing their impression of you is unethical, then that would make make-up, high heels, and push-up bras unethical for the same reason. Would you argue that? Further, you are crediting so-called psychological "tricks" with the powers of mind control, which is nonsense. "Negging" is essentially calculated teasing, and I don't suppose you'd call little boys unethical for pulling on girls' ponytails, would you? Depends what you mean by "impression management." If you mean emphasizing your positive character traits, then by all means, go for it. If you mean deliberately making statements that mislead others into thinking you have a particular trait that you actually don't have, then yes, that's unethical. You appear to be using a very broad definition of "psychological games" to suit your point, which seems to have been your general tactic throughout this debate. Nobody is discounting that human beings engage in action-response subconscious psychological behaviours on an interpersonal level. But the key thing here is that these are motivated by the genuine character of that person's psychology, which is to say they are an organic part of that person's self (hence their being subconscious). Conversely, deliberately employing psychological know-how to give the impression of candidness or interest or camaraderie is necessarily not genuine because, if it were, you wouldn't need to contrive it; it would arise from your psyche.
By your logic, it would be okay to tease a girl because you feel like it, but not okay to tease a girl because you know it might increase her attraction to you.
By that same logic, it's okay for a girl to wear make-up, high-heels, and push-up bras because the girl feels like it, but not okay to wear them because it might increase a guy's attraction to them.
Do you seriously not see the problem with your logic?
On June 08 2013 05:48 Shiori wrote:
In the same way that a mentalist could convince an ignorant person that they can communicate with a deceased relative (which is unethical) an idealized mentalist who can exploit perceived vulnerabilities gleaned by cold/hot reading of a potential sexual target is unethical because they are operating on a pretense of genuine psychological interaction but, in reality, aren't really engaging on an authentic level at all. In this sort of interaction, the mentalist says things he/she believes will bring him/her closer to the goal of intercourse, even if those things are not true or misleading. This, to me, is the line at which psychological games become unethical. If you are deceiving someone about your motives, traits, abilities, or interests in order to sleep with them, you are unethical.
Then every woman who uses make-up, high-heels, and push-up bras to deceive men about their attractiveness and age is unethical. So is every person who wears expensive clothes or drives expensive cars above their means.
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On June 08 2013 05:50 corumjhaelen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 05:46 sunprince wrote:On June 08 2013 05:41 aksfjh wrote:On June 08 2013 05:37 sunprince wrote:On June 08 2013 05:25 aksfjh wrote:On June 08 2013 05:13 sunprince wrote:On June 08 2013 04:23 IPA wrote:
I have never had a problem finding and dating attractive, interesting women. I am not a PUA and have never done anything other than be myself. I am in a band which helps but I don't prey on hangers on or groupies. I'm 30, tall, bald, intelligent and talented. I like myself and I think girls like that.
Just here to say you don't have to be a predatorial dbag or engage in brodude mind-games to get women. Be yourself and, more importantly, like yourself -- and they will like you. You're in the prime of your life, tall, intelligent, and in a band? This sums it up: http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3pfhy4/ He's 30 and bald. Doesn't sound "prime" to me. Truth is, everybody has at least one thing going for them. Mixing that with a level of self-worth and pride will bring out those good qualities, and personal preferences of the opposite sex will do the rest. Male pattern baldness is an indicator of high testosterone, something that would be supported by the rest of the information he gave. It's also an indicator of age, which generally is attractive to women since it represents social status. Nice spin. I'm not buying it though. Your mistake is assuming that women have the same criteria as men. A bald 30-year-old woman is not attractive to the majority of men. The same is not true the other way around. There is a reason why there are a number of male celebrities who favor a bald look when they could easily afford to do something about it should they choose. There's also a reason that film, television, and other media portray bald men attractively nearly infinitely more often than they do women. And those reasons can't be cultural, or have anything to do with the fact that men lose their hairs earlier. It has to be some kind of evolutionnary behavior, and there are serious studies that show it and you're going to provide me a link which won't make me laugh.
At no point did I make any sort of argument whether this is due to cultural reasons, evolutionary reasons, or a combination of both.
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On June 08 2013 05:53 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 05:50 corumjhaelen wrote:On June 08 2013 05:46 sunprince wrote:On June 08 2013 05:41 aksfjh wrote:On June 08 2013 05:37 sunprince wrote:On June 08 2013 05:25 aksfjh wrote:On June 08 2013 05:13 sunprince wrote:On June 08 2013 04:23 IPA wrote:
I have never had a problem finding and dating attractive, interesting women. I am not a PUA and have never done anything other than be myself. I am in a band which helps but I don't prey on hangers on or groupies. I'm 30, tall, bald, intelligent and talented. I like myself and I think girls like that.
Just here to say you don't have to be a predatorial dbag or engage in brodude mind-games to get women. Be yourself and, more importantly, like yourself -- and they will like you. You're in the prime of your life, tall, intelligent, and in a band? This sums it up: http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3pfhy4/ He's 30 and bald. Doesn't sound "prime" to me. Truth is, everybody has at least one thing going for them. Mixing that with a level of self-worth and pride will bring out those good qualities, and personal preferences of the opposite sex will do the rest. Male pattern baldness is an indicator of high testosterone, something that would be supported by the rest of the information he gave. It's also an indicator of age, which generally is attractive to women since it represents social status. Nice spin. I'm not buying it though. Your mistake is assuming that women have the same criteria as men. A bald 30-year-old woman is not attractive to the majority of men. The same is not true the other way around. There is a reason why there are a number of male celebrities who favor a bald look when they could easily afford to do something about it should they choose. There's also a reason that film, television, and other media portray bald men attractively nearly infinitely more often than they do women. And those reasons can't be cultural, or have anything to do with the fact that men lose their hairs earlier. It has to be some kind of evolutionnary behavior, and there are serious studies that show it and you're going to provide me a link which won't make me laugh. Sunprice is rather good at making everything fit into his overarching narrative of human interaction. Even though it's repugnant to me, I won't deny that the guy clearly does have a pretty consistent system.
There is one "quality" you can't really deny libertarians, it's their perfect consistency. They have the perfect tool to understand everything, a sure sign of a fossilized ideology.
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On June 08 2013 05:55 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 05:50 corumjhaelen wrote:On June 08 2013 05:46 sunprince wrote:On June 08 2013 05:41 aksfjh wrote:On June 08 2013 05:37 sunprince wrote:On June 08 2013 05:25 aksfjh wrote:On June 08 2013 05:13 sunprince wrote:On June 08 2013 04:23 IPA wrote:
I have never had a problem finding and dating attractive, interesting women. I am not a PUA and have never done anything other than be myself. I am in a band which helps but I don't prey on hangers on or groupies. I'm 30, tall, bald, intelligent and talented. I like myself and I think girls like that.
Just here to say you don't have to be a predatorial dbag or engage in brodude mind-games to get women. Be yourself and, more importantly, like yourself -- and they will like you. You're in the prime of your life, tall, intelligent, and in a band? This sums it up: http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3pfhy4/ He's 30 and bald. Doesn't sound "prime" to me. Truth is, everybody has at least one thing going for them. Mixing that with a level of self-worth and pride will bring out those good qualities, and personal preferences of the opposite sex will do the rest. Male pattern baldness is an indicator of high testosterone, something that would be supported by the rest of the information he gave. It's also an indicator of age, which generally is attractive to women since it represents social status. Nice spin. I'm not buying it though. Your mistake is assuming that women have the same criteria as men. A bald 30-year-old woman is not attractive to the majority of men. The same is not true the other way around. There is a reason why there are a number of male celebrities who favor a bald look when they could easily afford to do something about it should they choose. There's also a reason that film, television, and other media portray bald men attractively nearly infinitely more often than they do women. And those reasons can't be cultural, or have anything to do with the fact that men lose their hairs earlier. It has to be some kind of evolutionnary behavior, and there are serious studies that show it and you're going to provide me a link which won't make me laugh. At no point did I make any sort of argument whether this is due to cultural reasons, evolutionary reasons, or a combination of both.
And I'm not allowed to extrpolate from your other posts in the thread ? Also I'm interested in knowing a cultural explanation involving baldness as a sign of something as non-cultural as high testosterone, but nice try.
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On June 08 2013 05:54 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 05:48 Shiori wrote:On June 08 2013 05:35 sunprince wrote:On June 08 2013 05:24 Shiori wrote:On June 08 2013 05:17 sunprince wrote:On June 08 2013 04:18 Shiori wrote:On June 08 2013 01:07 Narobz wrote:
This is turning into a "try to figure out a woman's' mind thread" and guys, i'm telling you, you won't figure it out. Actually it's not very difficult to apply the sorts of tricks pioneered by mentalists to seduce men or women by fabricating a persona that appears much more attractive than its depth warrants. Of course, doing this essentially makes the PUA in question guilty of considering people nothing more than means to the end of his/her pleasure, which, to my mind, is fairly unethical. "Actually it's not very difficult to apply the sorts of tricks pioneered by mentalists to advertise a product. Of course, doing this essentially makes the advertiser in guilty of considering people nothing more than means to the end of his/her profit, which, to my mind, is fairly unethical" Can you spot the flaw with this sort of reasoning? Yup. You're, as I mentioned, equivocating human beings with products i.e. objects, for one, so the analogy fails. And, frankly, I do consider certain forms of advertisement to be unethical, which is why I quit the one sales-oriented job I've ever had. I won't try to trick people into buying things they don't need. You misread the analogy. The target of the advertising is a human being, just as the target of seduction. On June 08 2013 05:24 Shiori wrote:
It's one thing to present yourself in the best authentic way that you can. It's another thing to use psychological games to trick someone into sleeping with you (e.g. "negging," etc) You're creating an artificial difference between the two, when there is none. Everyone engages in impression management and plays psychological games consciously and unconsciously, and if everyone does it at least unconsciously then it cannot be unethical. If trying to get others to sleep with you by managing their impression of you is unethical, then that would make make-up, high heels, and push-up bras unethical for the same reason. Would you argue that? Further, you are crediting so-called psychological "tricks" with the powers of mind control, which is nonsense. "Negging" is essentially calculated teasing, and I don't suppose you'd call little boys unethical for pulling on girls' ponytails, would you? Depends what you mean by "impression management." If you mean emphasizing your positive character traits, then by all means, go for it. If you mean deliberately making statements that mislead others into thinking you have a particular trait that you actually don't have, then yes, that's unethical. You appear to be using a very broad definition of "psychological games" to suit your point, which seems to have been your general tactic throughout this debate. Nobody is discounting that human beings engage in action-response subconscious psychological behaviours on an interpersonal level. But the key thing here is that these are motivated by the genuine character of that person's psychology, which is to say they are an organic part of that person's self (hence their being subconscious). Conversely, deliberately employing psychological know-how to give the impression of candidness or interest or camaraderie is necessarily not genuine because, if it were, you wouldn't need to contrive it; it would arise from your psyche. By your logic, it would be okay to tease a girl because you feel like it, but not okay to tease a girl because you know it might increase her attraction to you. By that same logic, it's okay for a girl to wear make-up, high-heels, and push-up bras because the girl feels like it, but not okay to wear them because it might increase a guy's attraction to them. Do you seriously not see the problem with your logic? Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 05:48 Shiori wrote:
In the same way that a mentalist could convince an ignorant person that they can communicate with a deceased relative (which is unethical) an idealized mentalist who can exploit perceived vulnerabilities gleaned by cold/hot reading of a potential sexual target is unethical because they are operating on a pretense of genuine psychological interaction but, in reality, aren't really engaging on an authentic level at all. In this sort of interaction, the mentalist says things he/she believes will bring him/her closer to the goal of intercourse, even if those things are not true or misleading. This, to me, is the line at which psychological games become unethical. If you are deceiving someone about your motives, traits, abilities, or interests in order to sleep with them, you are unethical.
Then every woman who uses make-up, high-heels, and push-up bras to deceive men about their attractiveness and age is unethical. So is every person who wears expensive clothes or drives expensive cars above their means.
You're almost there. Yup: if you wear makeup/high heels/whatever solely because you want to make some guy like you, even if you yourself detest those things, then yeah, you probably have issues of some kind. It is, of course, completely possible that one would want to wear these things both because they like the way it makes them look. If someone finds them attractive, great! They have the same aesthetic tastes! Wonderful!
I wear expensive clothes because I think they look fucking awesome. I don't do it so that random women on the street will be attracted to me, but, if they are, at least I know that they like the same fashion that I do, which is always a plus.
There's also a pretty fundamental difference between aesthetic manipulation and fabrication of personality, mostly because the latter is what actually founds relationships whereas the former is just sort of icing and is easily tweaked.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Confirmed: Girls on average much hotter in germany that in canada. Peak hottness is pretty similar, but way hot:fat ratio is far far better.
Below: guys quoting me saying "wait till you come to ___other european country here____"
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On June 08 2013 05:58 corumjhaelen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 05:53 Shiori wrote:On June 08 2013 05:50 corumjhaelen wrote:On June 08 2013 05:46 sunprince wrote:On June 08 2013 05:41 aksfjh wrote:On June 08 2013 05:37 sunprince wrote:On June 08 2013 05:25 aksfjh wrote:On June 08 2013 05:13 sunprince wrote:On June 08 2013 04:23 IPA wrote:
I have never had a problem finding and dating attractive, interesting women. I am not a PUA and have never done anything other than be myself. I am in a band which helps but I don't prey on hangers on or groupies. I'm 30, tall, bald, intelligent and talented. I like myself and I think girls like that.
Just here to say you don't have to be a predatorial dbag or engage in brodude mind-games to get women. Be yourself and, more importantly, like yourself -- and they will like you. You're in the prime of your life, tall, intelligent, and in a band? This sums it up: http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3pfhy4/ He's 30 and bald. Doesn't sound "prime" to me. Truth is, everybody has at least one thing going for them. Mixing that with a level of self-worth and pride will bring out those good qualities, and personal preferences of the opposite sex will do the rest. Male pattern baldness is an indicator of high testosterone, something that would be supported by the rest of the information he gave. It's also an indicator of age, which generally is attractive to women since it represents social status. Nice spin. I'm not buying it though. Your mistake is assuming that women have the same criteria as men. A bald 30-year-old woman is not attractive to the majority of men. The same is not true the other way around. There is a reason why there are a number of male celebrities who favor a bald look when they could easily afford to do something about it should they choose. There's also a reason that film, television, and other media portray bald men attractively nearly infinitely more often than they do women. And those reasons can't be cultural, or have anything to do with the fact that men lose their hairs earlier. It has to be some kind of evolutionnary behavior, and there are serious studies that show it and you're going to provide me a link which won't make me laugh. Sunprice is rather good at making everything fit into his overarching narrative of human interaction. Even though it's repugnant to me, I won't deny that the guy clearly does have a pretty consistent system. There is one "quality" you can't really deny libertarians, it's their perfect consistency. They have the perfect tool to understand everything, a sure sign of a fossilized ideology.
The fact that I identify my perspective as libertarian leaning does not imply adherence to any sort of ideology. My views are my own.
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On June 08 2013 06:04 Kennigit wrote:
Confirmed: Girls on average much hotter in germany that in canada. Peak hottness is pretty similar, but way hot:fat ratio is far far better.
Below: guys quoting me saying "wait till you come to ___other european country here____"
Wait till you come to Poland
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On June 08 2013 06:04 Kennigit wrote:
Confirmed: Girls on average much hotter in germany that in canada. Peak hottness is pretty similar, but way hot:fat ratio is far far better.
Below: guys quoting me saying "wait till you come to ___other european country here____"
Wait till you come to Australia.
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On June 08 2013 06:04 Kennigit wrote:
Confirmed: Girls on average much hotter in germany that in canada. Peak hottness is pretty similar, but way hot:fat ratio is far far better.
Below: guys quoting me saying "wait till you come to ___other european country here____"
Ukraine has the most good looking girls on the planet on average and peak. They are also poor due to the bad economic situation of the country and slightly more educated than other western girls. You should try Ukraine out, Germany doesn't even compare.
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On June 08 2013 06:49 aTnClouD wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 06:04 Kennigit wrote:
Confirmed: Girls on average much hotter in germany that in canada. Peak hottness is pretty similar, but way hot:fat ratio is far far better.
Below: guys quoting me saying "wait till you come to ___other european country here____"
Ukraine has the most good looking girls on the planet on average and peak. They are also poor due to the bad economic situation of the country and slightly more educated than other western girls. You should try Ukraine out, Germany doesn't even compare.
Cloud knows the Story
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EPT
