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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned:
1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post.
2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no.
3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture.
4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.
Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
On June 08 2013 07:07 t e a C h e r wrote:
Help ya'll,
So this week i started my summer session, on the 2nd day(tuesday) i sat beside this very nice girl. She aint super hot or pretty, just cute, and really smart. We conversed the whole class, and i really thought we hit it off.
The next day, she sat 2 chairs to my right, and its was like we never even met. What did I do to scare her off? , was she intimidated by my handsomeness(jkjk) , but for real, what could it possibly be that made her run off scared.
On monday, should I try to sit next to her and see what she says? Should I confront her just to see whats up? I haven't been with a girl in a while, and this really got me upset.
help guys any advice helps
Cold treatment. Always work on these smart girls.
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On June 08 2013 10:21 WarSame wrote:
Sunprince should be permanently banned from this thread. He is almost always completely offtopic, calling other people names and trying his best to shut down any opposing opinion or ideology. Furthermore, when he argues he is intellectually dishonest, arguing in order to prove himself right rather than trying to reach an ideal solution or to thresh out a reasoned out set of differences. Every time he responds to someone asking for advice he continues to try to spin his personal brand of bullshit, rather than listening to the person he is responding to. Finally, he is clogging up this thread with his inane bullshit and has ruined most of the discourse that this thread was supposed to be and was originally about.
I have already PMed Chill a week back when Sunprince got temp banned asking Chill if he would consider lengthening his ban into a perma ban, outlining several posts that suggested he should be banned from the forums. Unfortunately, Chill did not. So I would like to take this opportunity on the offchance, to any mods out there, can you ban Sunprince, at the very least from this thread, and preferentially in my eyes from TL in general?
In my eyes sunprince has contributed more to the this thread recently than anyone else by a long shot. Just because you disagree with someone doesn't automatically make their posting offensive or off topic. Frankly, I find your demand for moderation ridiculous.
Thank you, sunprince, for your contributions to the discussion. I've enjoyed reading them and reflecting on your opinions and advice.
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On June 08 2013 12:33 Zooper31 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 12:30 docvoc wrote:
Guys I'm pretty sure that we are getting off topic talking about what we are. This is about dating and how we are doing when it comes to that, not, "what is your philosophy regarding the opposite sex and one's morality regarding what can be done to get said date." I really think we are missing the point that we had earlier on about helping people generally with dates and how to do so effectively. I tried saying that like 15pages ago, they ignored me 
I saw that, and I thought stuff would follow, but now I came back and see it hasn't. Legit I don't want to be talking about ethics in here, no one is going to change each other's minds about anything in here. This is about dating advice, and help, not about moral consequence.
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On June 08 2013 14:34 docvoc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 12:33 Zooper31 wrote:On June 08 2013 12:30 docvoc wrote:
Guys I'm pretty sure that we are getting off topic talking about what we are. This is about dating and how we are doing when it comes to that, not, "what is your philosophy regarding the opposite sex and one's morality regarding what can be done to get said date." I really think we are missing the point that we had earlier on about helping people generally with dates and how to do so effectively. I tried saying that like 15pages ago, they ignored me I saw that, and I thought stuff would follow, but now I came back and see it hasn't. Legit I don't want to be talking about ethics in here, no one is going to change each other's minds about anything in here. This is about dating advice, and help, not about moral consequence.
not nesecarily about advice. THe "high thread" for example isn't purely for advice on illegals, just like the "dating thread" isn't purely about advice amd help
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I had typed out a rather lengthy response to the ridiculous statements made since I left this thread yesterday, figured it nothing good would really come of it and have thus decided to just leave a quote by my (American) date from yesterday:
"God, it is so much easier dating a European guy! You constantly have to guess where you are standing with the Americans".
EDIT: Added a couple of missing words
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Russian Federation748 Posts
I would give anything to have a woman's reaction to what's been said in this thread so far.
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On June 08 2013 12:24 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 10:30 Slardar wrote:
From my incredibly little time here in this thread, Sunprince although overbearing seems knowledgeable at the least. If pulling any old article off the internet, saying, "LOOK, RESEARCH!!!" and then doing a weird shuffle-dance to double-back on an argument when one realizes the articles do not say what one thinks it says* is knowledgeable, then I fear for the state of society. *Too often, people simply don't make the effort to read the article in the first place; this applies to both parties btw. This is how you conduct an argument on the internet: Pick an article, any article, post it, and see how nobody gives a shit about reading it because it takes 10x more effort to read and pick an article apart than it does to simply Google search "women submissive by nature, dominant men" and post the first result you get from an accredited site. The amount of effort required vastly outweighs the benefits, esp. if the one who posted it in the first place seems to be so obstinate that any true discussion is rendered pointless.
If you have an actual substantive argument to make, then feel free to make it. It's rather hypocritical to accuse others of poorly supporting their arguments when you haven't actually advanced an argument of your own. If you believe that something I have said is incorrect or wrong, then point it out so we can discuss it.
On June 08 2013 12:41 Dark_Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 07:07 t e a C h e r wrote:
Help ya'll,
So this week i started my summer session, on the 2nd day(tuesday) i sat beside this very nice girl. She aint super hot or pretty, just cute, and really smart. We conversed the whole class, and i really thought we hit it off.
The next day, she sat 2 chairs to my right, and its was like we never even met. What did I do to scare her off? , was she intimidated by my handsomeness(jkjk) , but for real, what could it possibly be that made her run off scared.
On monday, should I try to sit next to her and see what she says? Should I confront her just to see whats up? I haven't been with a girl in a while, and this really got me upset.
help guys any advice helps Seems like you're taking things way too seriously. I mean, talking to someone and getting along is nice and all, but it doesn't mean that fireworks are going off either. If you're overthinking things, it's only making it harder on yourself. Talk to who you want and try not to worry about it too much. Her sitting a bit away from you and not really talking doesn't really mean anything either. If you want, go ahead and take the initiative and talk to her a bit. It could mean that she only saw it as a nice little conversation, or she could be looking to see how you respond. Or it could be something else entirely. We can't know why she didn't talk, and we can't know why she would talk. However, and this may sound cheesy, you can know why you do or don't talk to her. Really, this has been said in the thread before. You don't really have anything to lose, go talk to her, since it seems like you do enjoy her company. At best, great things will happen. At worst, you might not talk to her. If the best option doesn't work out, you might make a new friend or acquaintance.
Well said. There's no reason to overthink the situation if you've only casually spoken to a girl once. Building a situation out of proportion in your head is a good way to both make yourself nervous and to blind yourself to what's actually going on.
On June 08 2013 15:15 Ghostcom wrote:
I had typed out a rather lengthy response to the ridiculous statements made since I left this thread yesterday, figured it nothing good would really come of it and have thus decided to just leave a quote by my (American) date from yesterday:
"God, it is so much easier dating a European guy! You constantly have to guess where you are standing with the Americans".
EDIT: Added a couple of missing words
In my experience, it's easier dating European girls, too.
I feel as though Europe just has a better attitude towards sexuality than we do here in America. Our society has this weird self-contradictory attitude towards sexuality, where we are Puritanical prudes yet obsessed with sex at the same time.
Consequently, Europeans aren't demonized/shamed for their sexuality anywhere near the same degree as Americans, and can therefore express and communicate their desires more openly, leading to easier relationships for everyone.
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Hello
I would like to know what you think about something. I have never been in such a situation.
Several weeks ago, I've met a girl on a dating site. We share a lot in common (geek stuff, video games, sense of humor). I like her.
I have to tell you now that from the beginning, I have been a bit suspicious about something though : I felt like she was not looking for a serious relationship. I even asked her jokingly before our first date, if she was seeing anyone else this week end (she seemed to be very busy) She said something like "oh yes of course, I have 2 dates saturday morning, and then I meet those 3 guys in the evening, although 2 of them seems very boring so I think I won't go, and then I have 2 dates sunday, but one of them is gross, so I m not sure", and it made me laugh a lot.
Then, during our first dinner, I asked her seriously if she was seeing, or has see anyone else recently from the dating website. She told me that she did not. I trust her on that point. She broke up recently from her previous long relationship.
We are 2 weeks later now. We spent quite a bit of time together. 2 days ago, I kissed her (gently). Here is where it gets interesting for you.
Yesterday, after we ate lunch together and went back to our respective workplaces, she texted me :
+ Show Spoiler +- Her (let's call her... Felicity) : "I have to ask you something, but I m effraid it will shock you" - Me : "Shock me ? Go ahead" - Felicity : "Would it be conceivable for you, a non exclusive relationship ?" Here, I answered honestly (I didn't have to think long, so don't question that part) : I said no. I asked her if that's what she was looking for. - Felicity : "Well, in fact I wasn't considering things this way, but I like you so I really want to try  but now you r going to be super distrustful, aren't you ? X)" - Felicity : "I am not looking for anything particular, but I ve broken up with my ex not so long ago, I didn't thought I would commit to a "real relationship" now. - Me : "Oh, I didn't know. I don't want you to feel like you'r losing your freedom because of me. But a non-exclusive relationship, that will not be possible." - Felicity : "Ok, let's try and then we ll see. I don't want to tell you no just because of that ^^'"
I am not experienced enough with women to feel particularly "lucky" or anything. I was really looking for a serious relationship. And I m pretty sure I could be hurt badly if I feel "cheated" by her.
But what's bugging me now is that I feel like I have been deceived already. To be honest, I thought about stopping seeing her. But, putting my ego aside, if I look at it objectively, it doesn't feel that bad for me :
- If she's able to commit, then that's great
- If not, either way I can have an "intimate" relation with her, right ?... I am not joking here, I am not sure that's what I am looking for with her.
Any thoughts ? Thanks for reading !
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On June 08 2013 17:19 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 15:15 Ghostcom wrote:
I had typed out a rather lengthy response to the ridiculous statements made since I left this thread yesterday, figured it nothing good would really come of it and have thus decided to just leave a quote by my (American) date from yesterday:
"God, it is so much easier dating a European guy! You constantly have to guess where you are standing with the Americans".
EDIT: Added a couple of missing words In my experience, it's easier dating European girls, too. I feel as though Europe just has a better attitude towards sexuality than we do here in America. Our society has this weird self-contradictory attitude towards sexuality, where we are Puritanical prudes yet obsessed with sex at the same time. Consequently, Europeans aren't demonized/shamed for their sexuality anywhere near the same degree as Americans, and can therefore express and communicate their desires more openly, leading to easier relationships for everyone.
Perhaps then you would also be inclined to agree that dating and thus good advice for handling different situations also depends on the culture?
On June 08 2013 17:47 Ambre wrote:Hello I would like to know what you think about something. I have never been in such a situation. Several weeks ago, I've met a girl on a dating site. We share a lot in common (geek stuff, video games, sense of humor). I like her. I have to tell you now that from the beginning, I have been a bit suspicious about something though : I felt like she was not looking for a serious relationship. I even asked her jokingly before our first date, if she was seeing anyone else this week end (she seemed to be very busy) She said something like "oh yes of course, I have 2 dates saturday morning, and then I meet those 3 guys in the evening, although 2 of them seems very boring so I think I won't go, and then I have 2 dates sunday, but one of them is gross, so I m not sure", and it made me laugh a lot. Then, during our first dinner, I asked her seriously if she was seeing, or has see anyone else recently from the dating website. She told me that she did not. I trust her on that point. She broke up recently from her previous long relationship.We are 2 weeks later now. We spent quite a bit of time together. 2 days ago, I kissed her (gently). Here is where it gets interesting for you. Yesterday, after we ate lunch together and went back to our respective workplaces, she texted me :+ Show Spoiler +- Her (let's call her... Felicity) : "I have to ask you something, but I m effraid it will shock you" - Me : "Shock me ? Go ahead" - Felicity : "Would it be conceivable for you, a non exclusive relationship ?" Here, I answered honestly (I didn't have to think long, so don't question that part) : I said no. I asked her if that's what she was looking for. - Felicity : "Well, in fact I wasn't considering things this way, but I like you so I really want to try but now you r going to be super distrustful, aren't you ? X)" - Felicity : "I am not looking for anything particular, but I ve broken up with my ex not so long ago, I didn't thought I would commit to a "real relationship" now. - Me : "Oh, I didn't know. I don't want you to feel like you'r losing your freedom because of me. But a non-exclusive relationship, that will not be possible." - Felicity : "Ok, let's try and then we ll see. I don't want to tell you no just because of that ^^'" I am not experienced enough with women to feel particularly "lucky" or anything. I was really looking for a serious relationship. And I m pretty sure I could be hurt badly if I feel "cheated" by her. But what's bugging me now is that I feel like I have been deceived already. To be honest, I thought about stopping seeing her. But, putting my ego aside, if I look at it objectively, it doesn't feel that bad for me : - If she's able to commit, then that's great - If not, either way I can have an "intimate" relation with her, right ?... I am not joking here, I am not sure that's what I am looking for with her. Any thoughts ? Thanks for reading !
If my dating has taught me anything it is to trust my instinctive feelings. You have barely started dating and you are already having doubts? It does sound like you are hitting it off pretty well and she is up-front about it which is a definite plus, but it is no matter how you look at it, a risk you are taking.
Stray thought: What do you mean by having an "intimate" relation with her if she is non-exclusive? I thought that was out of the question per your texts?
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a group of friends told me... "There are women, and there are whores". I thought about that a long time and asked them to explain that to me more specifically what it means. They told me it depends on the man and what his relationship with the woman is. if you have the emotional "upper hand" (meaning that she cares more about you and is more emotionally attached , something like that ) then she will be a woman. If she has the emotional upper hand, then she will be a whore.
this interpretation did not comfort me at all. i'm very emotional and can't imagine a woman that i will have the "upper hand" with, so I asked them if there is a statistical error or something like that... and they said no dont count on that. Some other friends have also told me i'll never find a woman because I'm too emotional (Meaning the absolutely same thing, just with different words)
I just wanted to ask you guys what do you think ? and do you agree ?
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On June 08 2013 18:47 Holdinga wrote:
a group of friends told me... "There are women, and there are whores". I thought about that a long time and asked them to explain that to me more specifically what it means. They told me it depends on the man and what his relationship with the woman is. if you have the emotional "upper hand" (meaning that she cares more about you and is more emotionally attached , something like that ) then she will be a woman. If she has the emotional upper hand, then she will be a whore.
this interpretation did not comfort me at all. i'm very emotional and can't imagine a woman that i will have the "upper hand" with, so I asked them if there is a statistical error or something like that... and they said no dont count on that. Some other friends have also told me i'll never find a woman because I'm too emotional (Meaning the absolutely same thing, just with different words)
I just wanted to ask you guys what do you think ? and do you agree ?
not all women become whores if they have the "upper hand", as you call it. There are plenty with higher moral standards than that. However, in my experience those who are whores will string you along when they have the high ground advantage to play with you, while the honest and good women may just stray from you in most cases, as most women look for leadership and a spine in a may. You do have to make a distinction between "emotional" and "needy" or "clingy" though. You can be emotional and passionate, and many women will love that. But do not lose yourself in the process, do not try to build your entire self on the other person and her reaction. I think this is what your friends meant, and they are right in this regard. Lose your will because of another woman and she will either abuse you (whore) or move along. Stay true to what YOU want, to what your own goals are, and don't waste yourself and you will be fine, even with being emotional. It is not that important to have the "upper hand" in my opinion, it is more important to have a hand at all and not just be handed.
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On June 08 2013 19:31 Cirqueenflex wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 18:47 Holdinga wrote:
a group of friends told me... "There are women, and there are whores". I thought about that a long time and asked them to explain that to me more specifically what it means. They told me it depends on the man and what his relationship with the woman is. if you have the emotional "upper hand" (meaning that she cares more about you and is more emotionally attached , something like that ) then she will be a woman. If she has the emotional upper hand, then she will be a whore.
this interpretation did not comfort me at all. i'm very emotional and can't imagine a woman that i will have the "upper hand" with, so I asked them if there is a statistical error or something like that... and they said no dont count on that. Some other friends have also told me i'll never find a woman because I'm too emotional (Meaning the absolutely same thing, just with different words)
I just wanted to ask you guys what do you think ? and do you agree ? not all women become whores if they have the "upper hand", as you call it. There are plenty with higher moral standards than that. However, in my experience those who are whores will string you along when they have the high ground advantage to play with you, while the honest and good women may just stray from you in most cases, as most women look for leadership and a spine in a may. You do have to make a distinction between "emotional" and "needy" or "clingy" though. You can be emotional and passionate, and many women will love that. But do not lose yourself in the process, do not try to build your entire self on the other person and her reaction. I think this is what your friends meant, and they are right in this regard. Lose your will because of another woman and she will either abuse you (whore) or move along. Stay true to what YOU want, to what your own goals are, and don't waste yourself and you will be fine, even with being emotional. It is not that important to have the "upper hand" in my opinion, it is more important to have a hand at all and not just be handed.
I'm with this guy. Also improve your appearence, the way you dress, your posture and do not masturbate more than once a week. All this will help a lot giving you confidence.
I'm not going to lie to you (original quoted guy), if you are too emotional and feminine for the first time you will most likely get a girl who likes to abuse you psychologically and feel her power towards you, and you will not notice until everything is over. This will be a painful experience, but very useful if you manage to improve from that point.
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On June 08 2013 18:23 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 17:19 sunprince wrote:On June 08 2013 15:15 Ghostcom wrote:
I had typed out a rather lengthy response to the ridiculous statements made since I left this thread yesterday, figured it nothing good would really come of it and have thus decided to just leave a quote by my (American) date from yesterday:
"God, it is so much easier dating a European guy! You constantly have to guess where you are standing with the Americans".
EDIT: Added a couple of missing words In my experience, it's easier dating European girls, too. I feel as though Europe just has a better attitude towards sexuality than we do here in America. Our society has this weird self-contradictory attitude towards sexuality, where we are Puritanical prudes yet obsessed with sex at the same time. Consequently, Europeans aren't demonized/shamed for their sexuality anywhere near the same degree as Americans, and can therefore express and communicate their desires more openly, leading to easier relationships for everyone. Perhaps then you would also be inclined to agree that dating and thus good advice for handling different situations also depends on the culture?
Of course, I've never argued otherwise. I'm not sure where people keep getting this notion that I think people are solely the products of biology. I've suggested more than once that human behavior is the product of both biology and culture.
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Here are my thoughts on reading the text. Take it with a grain of salt, I might be wrong. Just writing my gut feelings:
Felicity texted:
"Would it be conceivable for you, a non exclusive relationship ?"
why would she want that?
Felicity texted:"Well, in fact I wasn't considering things this way, but I like you so I really want to try but now you r going to be super distrustful, aren't you ? X)"
she would need a non exclusive relationship for you? So she likes you and wants a relationship, but is already - you know - getting plowed and does not want to stop that either.
Felicity texted:
"I am not looking for anything particular, but I ve broken up with my ex not so long ago, I didn't thought I would commit to a "real relationship" now.
ah, so she did not think she would commit to a real relationship, so she got herself some light relationships based on getting laid
Felicity texted:
"Ok, let's try and then we ll see. I don't want to tell you no just because of that ^^'"
so getting laid by other guys is not important enough to lose a chance with you, as you cannot accept an open relationship. She may try to stay true to you and give it a shot.
So it comes down to you - do you like her enough to give her a chance? She does seem willing to commit to you, and I would not put too much thought into her short period of freedom after her long previous relationship, where she just explored and went to have some fun. More important for trusting her would be: Did she cheat on her previous BF? Why did they break up? Is there a similar pattern that would make her unhappy with you? And why the heck was she on a dating site when she wasn't really looking for a real relationship, just some cheap action?
Sorry, that is all I got. Then again, it is just a translation of texting on the phone, so there might be stuff I read into it that was not there in the original and got in by translation (or misunderstanding on her part, or typing errors).
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On June 08 2013 19:43 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 18:23 Ghostcom wrote:On June 08 2013 17:19 sunprince wrote:On June 08 2013 15:15 Ghostcom wrote:
I had typed out a rather lengthy response to the ridiculous statements made since I left this thread yesterday, figured it nothing good would really come of it and have thus decided to just leave a quote by my (American) date from yesterday:
"God, it is so much easier dating a European guy! You constantly have to guess where you are standing with the Americans".
EDIT: Added a couple of missing words In my experience, it's easier dating European girls, too. I feel as though Europe just has a better attitude towards sexuality than we do here in America. Our society has this weird self-contradictory attitude towards sexuality, where we are Puritanical prudes yet obsessed with sex at the same time. Consequently, Europeans aren't demonized/shamed for their sexuality anywhere near the same degree as Americans, and can therefore express and communicate their desires more openly, leading to easier relationships for everyone. Perhaps then you would also be inclined to agree that dating and thus good advice for handling different situations also depends on the culture? Of course, I've never argued otherwise. I'm not sure where people keep getting this notion that I think people are solely the products of biology. I've suggested more than once that human behavior is the product of both biology and culture.
would you mind both shaking hands and ending the discussion? If you read the OP once more, this thread is specifically for sharing your personal stories on dating, not a theoretical approach. Giving/asking for advice and commenting on the personal stories has also become a part of this thread, and I quite enjoy reading stuff like that. The theoretical discussion however seems to stray quite a bit from that, so I would kindly ask you to take this to another thread where it does fit the topic or just simply stop it. Or why don't you share a couple stories about your dating life?
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On June 08 2013 19:38 aTnClouD wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 19:31 Cirqueenflex wrote:On June 08 2013 18:47 Holdinga wrote:
a group of friends told me... "There are women, and there are whores". I thought about that a long time and asked them to explain that to me more specifically what it means. They told me it depends on the man and what his relationship with the woman is. if you have the emotional "upper hand" (meaning that she cares more about you and is more emotionally attached , something like that ) then she will be a woman. If she has the emotional upper hand, then she will be a whore.
this interpretation did not comfort me at all. i'm very emotional and can't imagine a woman that i will have the "upper hand" with, so I asked them if there is a statistical error or something like that... and they said no dont count on that. Some other friends have also told me i'll never find a woman because I'm too emotional (Meaning the absolutely same thing, just with different words)
I just wanted to ask you guys what do you think ? and do you agree ? not all women become whores if they have the "upper hand", as you call it. There are plenty with higher moral standards than that. However, in my experience those who are whores will string you along when they have the high ground advantage to play with you, while the honest and good women may just stray from you in most cases, as most women look for leadership and a spine in a may. You do have to make a distinction between "emotional" and "needy" or "clingy" though. You can be emotional and passionate, and many women will love that. But do not lose yourself in the process, do not try to build your entire self on the other person and her reaction. I think this is what your friends meant, and they are right in this regard. Lose your will because of another woman and she will either abuse you (whore) or move along. Stay true to what YOU want, to what your own goals are, and don't waste yourself and you will be fine, even with being emotional. It is not that important to have the "upper hand" in my opinion, it is more important to have a hand at all and not just be handed. I'm with this guy. Also improve your appearence, the way you dress, your posture and do not masturbate more than once a week. All this will help a lot giving you confidence. I'm not going to lie to you (original quoted guy), if you are too emotional and feminine for the first time you will most likely get a girl who likes to abuse you psychologically and feel her power towards you, and you will not notice until everything is over. This will be a painful experience, but very useful if you manage to improve from that point.
appearance, way I dress, posture are the least of my problems. i make a great first impression as i'm physically strong, tall and dress good, which hasnt helped me so much for now.
And yes cloud you are right I have been emotionally abused in the last couple of months... she herself had told me she has no moral standards, which is probably one of the reasons i liked her so much... in the end she doesn't deserve me, as she went for one of my best friends that has sexual relations with like 6-7 women (i think maybe even a lot more) at a time and treats her like garbage (But I guess that's what she wanted after all, so fuck her)
I live with hope that I don't need to lie, or manipulate a woman to get her. I've done that once or twice when I was drunk, and I felt really bad that I played with a woman's feelings, without wanting anything from her and I don't want to do that ever again. I live with hope that I can be 100% honest and I can be in a relationship with no lies at all. Women like that are hard to find these days though, as they mostly prefer problems and hardships and they have no brain and don't know what they want
I think I'll die single with my hope
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On June 08 2013 19:55 Holdinga wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 19:38 aTnClouD wrote:On June 08 2013 19:31 Cirqueenflex wrote:On June 08 2013 18:47 Holdinga wrote:
a group of friends told me... "There are women, and there are whores". I thought about that a long time and asked them to explain that to me more specifically what it means. They told me it depends on the man and what his relationship with the woman is. if you have the emotional "upper hand" (meaning that she cares more about you and is more emotionally attached , something like that ) then she will be a woman. If she has the emotional upper hand, then she will be a whore.
this interpretation did not comfort me at all. i'm very emotional and can't imagine a woman that i will have the "upper hand" with, so I asked them if there is a statistical error or something like that... and they said no dont count on that. Some other friends have also told me i'll never find a woman because I'm too emotional (Meaning the absolutely same thing, just with different words)
I just wanted to ask you guys what do you think ? and do you agree ? not all women become whores if they have the "upper hand", as you call it. There are plenty with higher moral standards than that. However, in my experience those who are whores will string you along when they have the high ground advantage to play with you, while the honest and good women may just stray from you in most cases, as most women look for leadership and a spine in a may. You do have to make a distinction between "emotional" and "needy" or "clingy" though. You can be emotional and passionate, and many women will love that. But do not lose yourself in the process, do not try to build your entire self on the other person and her reaction. I think this is what your friends meant, and they are right in this regard. Lose your will because of another woman and she will either abuse you (whore) or move along. Stay true to what YOU want, to what your own goals are, and don't waste yourself and you will be fine, even with being emotional. It is not that important to have the "upper hand" in my opinion, it is more important to have a hand at all and not just be handed. I'm with this guy. Also improve your appearence, the way you dress, your posture and do not masturbate more than once a week. All this will help a lot giving you confidence. I'm not going to lie to you (original quoted guy), if you are too emotional and feminine for the first time you will most likely get a girl who likes to abuse you psychologically and feel her power towards you, and you will not notice until everything is over. This will be a painful experience, but very useful if you manage to improve from that point. appearance, way I dress, posture are the least of my problems. i make a great first impression as i'm physically strong, tall and dress good, which hasnt helped me so much for now. And yes cloud you are right I have been emotionally abused in the last couple of months... she herself had told me she has no moral standards, which is probably one of the reasons i liked her so much... in the end she doesn't deserve me, as she went for one of my best friends that has sexual relations with like 6-7 women (i think maybe even a lot more) at a time and treats her like garbage (But I guess that's what she wanted after all, so fuck her) I live with hope that I don't need to lie, or manipulate a woman to get her. I've done that once or twice when I was drunk, and I felt really bad that I played with a woman's feelings, without wanting anything from her and I don't want to do that ever again. I live with hope that I can be 100% honest and I can be in a relationship with no lies at all. Women like that are hard to find these days though, as they mostly prefer problems and hardships and they have no brain and don't know what they want I think I'll die single with my hope
If that's your hope you will most likely die single, yes. You overrate women too much. They are too emotional and this tends to override any good logic or moral decision they can take. You have to learn how to control them emotionally or you will always be viewed as a tool by them.
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On June 07 2013 07:02 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 05:52 BeyondCtrL wrote:On June 07 2013 02:19 gedatsu wrote:On June 07 2013 01:07 BeyondCtrL wrote:On June 06 2013 22:22 sunprince wrote:On June 06 2013 22:13 BeyondCtrL wrote:On June 06 2013 21:43 sunprince wrote:On June 06 2013 21:38 Grumbels wrote:On June 06 2013 21:25 sunprince wrote:On June 06 2013 21:10 saddaromma wrote:
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What do you mean by 'girl with high value', is it that girl requires high value or she has it? If latter then I guess you're kinda wrong. Princess can easily fall in love with a commoner (and vice-versa). By 'value', I'm referring to sexual marketplace value. A woman's sexual marketplace value is primarily determined by her physical attractiveness (which incorporates youth, fertility, fitness, etc.), and secondarily by traits such as intelligence, femininity, sexiness, and pleasing personality. To put it simply, if you want a beautiful, highly desirable woman who can have her pick of nearly any man she wants, then you had better be a highly desirable man yourself. Otherwise, why would she settle for you when she can do so much better? On June 06 2013 21:10 saddaromma wrote:Man-woman relationship is not economics. Its about feelings. Feelings determine human behavior. Economics studies human behavior. Asking what you have to offer to a famous actress or so isn't really fair. If sexual marketplace value is real then it follows a bell curve, which means that most people are average and relatively close to each other in value. That girl you liked at that party is 9/10 times not going to be out of your league, the only question then is circumstances and personal match. It is true that most people are average and relatively close in value. However, the girl you liked at that party is generally going to be above average in value, and in fact is likely to be one of the highest value girls that you met at the party. Also, most guys are not interested in learning how they can date/fuck/marry an average girl; rather, they want the best girl (or close to the best girl) they can get. Accordingly, those guys are going to want to learn how to maximize their own value. Women primarily look for healthy men. An all-round healthy man is fit, intelligent, attractive and well dressed. Fitness, intelligence and attractiveness are very closely linked since those attributes are some of the visually strongest indicators of health. Being able to fulfill at least 3 of the criteria will guarantee you a decent, if not better, chance to successfully engage women in almost any circumstance. False. Women primarily look for men of higher social status. Being physically fit, intelligent, attractive, and well-dressed can contribute to that higher social status, but not all of those are indicators of health, nor are they the only factors for social status. If health were the primary criteria for male attractiveness, then it would stand to reason that women would be most attracted to men in their late teens and early twenties, when men are at their healthiest. To the contrary, men in their late teens and early twenties tend to have low sexual marketplace value, while older men tend to have higher sexual marketplace value (e.g. women are more attracted to the latter, rather than the former). The reason for this is because older men have higher social status and therefore higher sexual marketplace value. You are pulling stuff out of your ass here. The appearance of health does not deteriorate after you are 25. You can keep a very good looking body and physical shape up to your mid 40's. Attributes like intelligence and style mature and get better with age. Staying fit and healthy as you get older also signifies a strong immune system with good genes. Men of older age are also more attractive because not only do they posses all those qualities, but because they have also proven to be successful and experienced adults, the social status emerging from that is a consequence. The simplest way to prove this: Imagine two men near their 40's, equal in wealth and social status, wearing the same clothes, yet different in health. One has a physically fit and healthy body and is intelligent; the other has below average fitness, intelligence and is sickly. The immediate evaluation by women is going to be obvious here. In fact the latter male might be picked by females that are only interested in raising their own status, however the overwhelming majority of women will find a man attractive with the former's qualities, at varying levels of inferior social status. Women might go for status consciously, and entirely for that reason, but the question about whether the male is attractive is completely debatable. There are women who are not looking to raise their own status and consciously do not select men in that manner. Instinctively, however, women are attracted to the qualities I have mentioned. Your health, physical, mental and otherwise is the primary attribute by which females deem males attractive, social status is secondary (an emergent property of having those attributes). It's not required to have all the aspects of health, as long as a male posses a good number he is always a good candidate, regardless of social status (with the exception of being social outcasts, homeless and the like). Your comparison is terrible. Of course "physically fit, healthy body and intelligent" is more attractive than "below average fitness, intelligence and is sickly". You're setting three positive traits against three negative ones. We're talking about which positive trait is more important, so you are missing the mark by several miles. A better comparison is: imagine two men in their 40s. One is completely healthy, can do handstands and is expected to live until age 110, but he doesn't have that many friends, has some money problems and is easily talked down by others. The other has a very large social circle which always laughs at all his jokes, he has a lot of money and people defer to his opinion. But on the other hand he visits the doctor a few times per year, smokes, and can't bench anything close to his own body weight. Everything else between these two guys is equal. Who do you think gets more female attention? Everything about these guys is equal and different? The first guy sounds like a social outcast or has anxiety, indicating that he has an unhealthy psychology and the second guy you describes is quite average when you balance his health and social life. Also the comparison was made for the social status, just because people laugh at your jokes and you have many friends does not make you attractive, in fact there is nothing to indicate that that even increases the attractiveness. Additionally your argument is completely flawed since you have put both males in different wealth, health, and social status groups, of course the choice is obvious. My point was that if you want to see if social status is the primary factor by which attractiveness is measured then any difference between two males of the same status would not make any difference in their perceived value, yet there clearly is as I have pointed out. It is you, sir, that have completely missed the mark by several miles. Your argument does not fit your conclusion. The example you gave shows that, all other things equal, a man who is healthy is more attractive than a man who is not. Nobody here has disputed this. However, the discussion we're having is whether health is the most important factor for determining male attractiveness. Your arguments do not support this notion. On top of this, you are lumping in non-health factors such as fashion under your definition of "health" (when fashion has been established by academic research as a form of status display). It would appear that you are creating not only an unsupported argument, but one that is unfalsifiable because of your spurious definitions.
Your inability to see reality as how it is, status and the display of it, as an emergent behavior of a person's physical qualities is leading to this conclusion and not by any erroneous logic on my behalf. Health is the most important factor, and status is a secondary trait added as a bonus.
Health+Status>Health>Health+Poor Status>Poor Health+High Status>Rest. As you can see you can see healthy people with a poorer status are much more desirable than poor health high status. This not only comes from years of experience, but also the painfully obvious fact that you don't seem to understand inter-sex relationships very well. If you think you are gonna increase your value to women dramatically by improving your status, you will find yourself with women that only want to use you for that attribute.
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I wonder if it's okay for me to contact someone via facebook. She hasn't given me direct permission and I kind of found her account by googling her name and some personal info she told me. I was getting along very well with her before, but I've been sick for a few weeks now and haven't had a chance to see her again and the school year is going to end shortly.
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On June 08 2013 21:30 Grumbels wrote:
I wonder if it's okay for me to contact someone via facebook. She hasn't given me direct permission and I kind of found her account by googling her name and some personal info she told me. I was getting along very well with her before, but I've been sick for a few weeks now and haven't had a chance to see her again and the school year is going to end shortly.
Just message her, nothing to lose really.
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EPT
