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Country bashing will result in bans from 00:20 KST onward. |
On October 09 2011 10:16 psheldr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2011 09:53 PraetorialGamer wrote:On October 09 2011 09:43 Consolidate wrote:On October 09 2011 09:40 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On October 09 2011 09:36 Consolidate wrote:On October 09 2011 09:32 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On October 09 2011 09:29 Consolidate wrote:On October 09 2011 09:23 Klipsys wrote:On October 09 2011 09:01 Consolidate wrote:On October 09 2011 08:59 Klipsys wrote:
[quote]
Okay so,
Men rape women
Soldiers rape women
American soldiers rape Asian women
American soldiers in Korea raped Korean women.
Why is this incident so shocking and disturbing, outside of the fact that it's rape? Again, not to discount the actions of these individuals as trivial, but in the grand scheme of things, why does anyone outside of Korea care enough to blindly wish these people executed or other such nonsense? This is an issue that frankly only Koreans should care about...because it happened in Korea. Korean police should investigate, a Korean court should try them, and a Korean prison should house them. No one in Korea makes threads when American's get raped, and rightfully so, because then there would be millions of threads. The posts in this thread are ludicrous because never once have I seen a thread for a random American girl raped by a random foreigner. This is ONLY on TL BECAUSE it's Korea. This has nothing to do with the actual rape, and everything to do with where it happened, which I think it's offensive and stupid. American soldiers raped and killed Iraqi girls FOR YEARS, and there was never this much outcry.
Notice how this thread quickly derailed into why is the us there and NK would win the war, and almost nothing about these two girls who are probably traumatized for life. No one actually cares about these girls, they just want to be seen supporting Korea. It's as if kids these days can't see the forest for the trees. What the hell are they teaching you in school? Do you want to use what happened to these girls as a platform to launch an Anti-American military campaign? Because that's all is being accomplished by being here. No one is talking about the actual crime here, they're arguing if the military should even be there. Again, rape happens all over the world, every single day. The only reason this is a thread is because some people want to preach the anti american sentiment, and some want to be seen as being pro Korean. If the reason this was posted was because we all hate rape, then why isn't there a thread every day for all of the women who are rape, all over the world? You fucking tell me. Why the hell are my countrymen so deluded as to why the rest of the world might find reason for anti-american sentiment when American soldiers rape domestic nationals and are not held accountable?Those blokes at Okinawa? You think 'justice' was served there? Your nationalist bias is showing pretty clearly. There are people saying they shouldn't be punished? Where? Putting the cart before the horse or can you see into the future? It's pretty clear that they won't be punished adequately if history is a guide. Let me try to get through to you: The same thing happened in Okinawa: The Michael Brown Okinawa attempted assault incident arose from an attempted indecent assault by U.S. Marine Corps Major Michael Brown on a Filipina bartender, V. N. (initials of victim), in Okinawa, Japan, on November 2, 2002. V.N. accused Brown of attempting to rape her and throwing her cell phone into a nearby river; Brown denied the rape charges. The victim later recanted her testimony, though prosecutors presented evidence that she had received a cash payment just before doing so. The case received extensive attention in the Japanese media, especially in Okinawa, and the crime sparked a public debate over the U.S. military presence in Japan, the privileges of extraterritoriality, as well as the fair trial practices of Japanese legal system and the Japanese police. The case involved the Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security between the United States and Japan and the U.S.–Japan Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA). On July 8, 2004, after a 19-month trial, Brown was convicted by a Japanese court of attempted indecent assault and destruction of private property and received a one-year suspended prison sentence. As a result of this incident and others involving crimes committed by U.S. military personnel in Japan, both countries entered into negotiations aimed at modifying the SOFA in July 2003; ultimately, however, no changes were made to the agreement. In 2005, Brown was arrested and charged with kidnapping in the United States. He was demoted and involuntarily retired from the military in 2006 and at his trial in 2009 entered a Kennedy plea, receiving probation on the felony conviction. Does that sound like justice to you? Is this the part where I explain that a single incident doesn't prove, well, much of anything? Yesterday the Brewers won their game. I guess that means next year they'll win if they're in a similar situation. Do I think justice will be served? No, but that's only because the "justice" some people have called for is chemical castration and other ludicrous assessments. There are emotions and short of execution of these individuals, there will be upset people. I establish a pattern of behavior regarding the handling these types of events, and you dismiss them as 'single incidents'. Can you get more ridiculous? Your logical reasoning is flawed. Where is your pattern? I see two incidents that have not yet come to trial, and another in another country that currently has no military relation to the other except regional. I do dismiss them. Find a public study that shows numerous reports of behavior such as this in Korea that cannot be dismissed as "anecdotal", as you have dismissed arguments against your own. Sorry PraetorialGamer i thought what you said up to now was very reasonable (miles above what came from Klipsys and ownyaah...). But this just makes me sick to the stomach. There have been many, many issues with US military presence in other countries (this is just the tip of the iceberg!). For example when the Ramstein disaster occurred (just because i know the level here i will hedge by saying _of course the military base was not responsible for the Italian jet crashing/this horrible incident occurring_), however ambulances and medical staff from the surrounding clinics where at first not let on to the premise because they didn't have clearance. Why are US nuclear bombs stationed in Germany? Why could the last foreign minister of Germany only highlight this issue and say how unhappy Germans are with it than actually do anything about it? The list goes on... Surely with a bit of imagination you can think of many other reasons what can go wrong with having a military base full of privileged/bored men in a country. So trying to pretend that this tip of the iceberg - these latest problems are really non existent, and before then everything was just fine as well, does not sit right with me. So what is the issue here? The US government stations US soldiers around the world in military bases. The government does this by the authority given to it by the US citizens. Do Koreans, Japanese, Germans... have any democratic power over these bases? No. The only thing left is running against this brick wall, their own incompetent politicians, to put pressure on US foreign policy - which they have been trying for the last 60 years. So i think we need to work together. Of course we should make our politicians fight for this issue. But US citizens have to at least *think* about this issue. Depending on how they decide on this issue they can chose to (or not) put pressure on _their_ representatives about this. Everything else is just insulting. I hope i could make myself clear.
Oh, certainly you did make yourself clear. I personally am against a strong US presence in many countries around the world, and I do think it's an issue that deserves more attention than it is getting.
I'm just one person with no political influence. I can't stop my country from what it's doing. Perhaps in eight years, when I graduate from college, I might. But until then, I remain just one extremely well-educated freshman with no way to challenge the army. I can try to argue that it could be worse, can be better with effort. But that's all I personally can do.
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I'm just ridiculing those who dismissing this entire topic as an ordinary crime of trivial importance.
No crime is "ordinary", but this one wasn't extraordinary either. Basically, you're using these girls getting raped as an excuse to wage a personal moral crusade against the establishment of military bases in other countries. I don't know why exactly, but that's what you're doing. Then you claim the military is actually, actively involved in the protection of rapists, and talk about a few incidents that happened sporadically over the past decade or so, without any mention or thought to the other possible hundreds that you didn't hear about, that don't do anything to support your claim of bias from the military. There's actually little chance you'd head about some military case that ended with a guilty verdict, because it probably happens frequently.
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On October 09 2011 10:24 Klipsys wrote:Show nested quote +
I'm just ridiculing those who dismissing this entire topic as an ordinary crime of trivial importance.
No crime is "ordinary", but this one wasn't extraordinary either. Basically, you're using these girls getting raped as an excuse to wage a personal moral crusade against the establishment of military bases in other countries. I don't know why exactly, but that's what you're doing. Then you claim the military is actually, actively involved in the protection of rapists, and talk about a few incidents that happened sporadically over the past decade or so, without any mention or thought to the other possible hundreds that you didn't hear about, that don't do anything to support your claim of bias from the military. There's actually little chance you'd head about some military case that ended with a guilty verdict, because it probably happens frequently.
Why does everything seem to simple to you?
I don't give a hoot about the morality of rape or US bases on foreign soil.
All I'm saying is that this type of event has wider-ranging consequences than joe schmo (Klipsys), can comprehend even on good-brain days.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On October 09 2011 10:22 PraetorialGamer wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2011 10:16 psheldr wrote:On October 09 2011 09:53 PraetorialGamer wrote:On October 09 2011 09:43 Consolidate wrote:On October 09 2011 09:40 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On October 09 2011 09:36 Consolidate wrote:On October 09 2011 09:32 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On October 09 2011 09:29 Consolidate wrote:On October 09 2011 09:23 Klipsys wrote:On October 09 2011 09:01 Consolidate wrote:
[quote]
It's as if kids these days can't see the forest for the trees.
What the hell are they teaching you in school? Do you want to use what happened to these girls as a platform to launch an Anti-American military campaign? Because that's all is being accomplished by being here. No one is talking about the actual crime here, they're arguing if the military should even be there. Again, rape happens all over the world, every single day. The only reason this is a thread is because some people want to preach the anti american sentiment, and some want to be seen as being pro Korean. If the reason this was posted was because we all hate rape, then why isn't there a thread every day for all of the women who are rape, all over the world? You fucking tell me. Why the hell are my countrymen so deluded as to why the rest of the world might find reason for anti-american sentiment when American soldiers rape domestic nationals and are not held accountable?Those blokes at Okinawa? You think 'justice' was served there? Your nationalist bias is showing pretty clearly. There are people saying they shouldn't be punished? Where? Putting the cart before the horse or can you see into the future? It's pretty clear that they won't be punished adequately if history is a guide. Let me try to get through to you: The same thing happened in Okinawa: The Michael Brown Okinawa attempted assault incident arose from an attempted indecent assault by U.S. Marine Corps Major Michael Brown on a Filipina bartender, V. N. (initials of victim), in Okinawa, Japan, on November 2, 2002. V.N. accused Brown of attempting to rape her and throwing her cell phone into a nearby river; Brown denied the rape charges. The victim later recanted her testimony, though prosecutors presented evidence that she had received a cash payment just before doing so. The case received extensive attention in the Japanese media, especially in Okinawa, and the crime sparked a public debate over the U.S. military presence in Japan, the privileges of extraterritoriality, as well as the fair trial practices of Japanese legal system and the Japanese police. The case involved the Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security between the United States and Japan and the U.S.–Japan Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA). On July 8, 2004, after a 19-month trial, Brown was convicted by a Japanese court of attempted indecent assault and destruction of private property and received a one-year suspended prison sentence. As a result of this incident and others involving crimes committed by U.S. military personnel in Japan, both countries entered into negotiations aimed at modifying the SOFA in July 2003; ultimately, however, no changes were made to the agreement. In 2005, Brown was arrested and charged with kidnapping in the United States. He was demoted and involuntarily retired from the military in 2006 and at his trial in 2009 entered a Kennedy plea, receiving probation on the felony conviction. Does that sound like justice to you? Is this the part where I explain that a single incident doesn't prove, well, much of anything? Yesterday the Brewers won their game. I guess that means next year they'll win if they're in a similar situation. Do I think justice will be served? No, but that's only because the "justice" some people have called for is chemical castration and other ludicrous assessments. There are emotions and short of execution of these individuals, there will be upset people. I establish a pattern of behavior regarding the handling these types of events, and you dismiss them as 'single incidents'. Can you get more ridiculous? Your logical reasoning is flawed. Where is your pattern? I see two incidents that have not yet come to trial, and another in another country that currently has no military relation to the other except regional. I do dismiss them. Find a public study that shows numerous reports of behavior such as this in Korea that cannot be dismissed as "anecdotal", as you have dismissed arguments against your own. Sorry PraetorialGamer i thought what you said up to now was very reasonable (miles above what came from Klipsys and ownyaah...). But this just makes me sick to the stomach. There have been many, many issues with US military presence in other countries (this is just the tip of the iceberg!). For example when the Ramstein disaster occurred (just because i know the level here i will hedge by saying _of course the military base was not responsible for the Italian jet crashing/this horrible incident occurring_), however ambulances and medical staff from the surrounding clinics where at first not let on to the premise because they didn't have clearance. Why are US nuclear bombs stationed in Germany? Why could the last foreign minister of Germany only highlight this issue and say how unhappy Germans are with it than actually do anything about it? The list goes on... Surely with a bit of imagination you can think of many other reasons what can go wrong with having a military base full of privileged/bored men in a country. So trying to pretend that this tip of the iceberg - these latest problems are really non existent, and before then everything was just fine as well, does not sit right with me. So what is the issue here? The US government stations US soldiers around the world in military bases. The government does this by the authority given to it by the US citizens. Do Koreans, Japanese, Germans... have any democratic power over these bases? No. The only thing left is running against this brick wall, their own incompetent politicians, to put pressure on US foreign policy - which they have been trying for the last 60 years. So i think we need to work together. Of course we should make our politicians fight for this issue. But US citizens have to at least *think* about this issue. Depending on how they decide on this issue they can chose to (or not) put pressure on _their_ representatives about this. Everything else is just insulting. I hope i could make myself clear. Oh, certainly you did make yourself clear. I personally am against a strong US presence in many countries around the world, and I do think it's an issue that deserves more attention than it is getting. I'm just one person with no political influence. I can't stop my country from what it's doing. Perhaps in eight years, when I graduate from college, I might. But until then, I remain just one extremely well-educated freshman with no way to challenge the army. I can try to argue that it could be worse, can be better with effort. But that's all I personally can do.
Yeah, when I was in, I was generally considered a liberal asshole by most of the people I worked with. I have some very strong opinions about issues the US Military has, internally and politically. It just so happens that I also don't believe in guilt by association.
If we did believe in guilt by association, I'm pretty sure the entire world would be a huge series of smoking craters.
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just hope this gets resolved without allegations that US is interfering with the investigation. similar issues in okinawa with US military unfortunately.
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On October 09 2011 05:33 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2011 05:30 Bleak wrote:
Wow, there are still 50.000 soldiers in Japan. I guess once US enters somewhere they don't ever go back. Japan isn't really the typical case. Look into what was decided after WW2 regarding the role of Japan in the world.
Couple of things that need pointing out here. 1) This is absolutely the normal case. The United States has always left troops stationed in a country they have defeated in a war. (Note Germany, Italy, Russia is actually an exception, as they were an ally at the end of the war. You will see the same thing in Iraq and Afghanistan. This is a constant through U.S. History. 2) These accusations, sad as they may be, are still just that. Accusations. Until they are charged and tried these men are innocent. Even by Korean law.
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On October 09 2011 10:30 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2011 10:22 PraetorialGamer wrote:On October 09 2011 10:16 psheldr wrote:On October 09 2011 09:53 PraetorialGamer wrote:On October 09 2011 09:43 Consolidate wrote:On October 09 2011 09:40 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On October 09 2011 09:36 Consolidate wrote:On October 09 2011 09:32 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On October 09 2011 09:29 Consolidate wrote:On October 09 2011 09:23 Klipsys wrote:
[quote]
Do you want to use what happened to these girls as a platform to launch an Anti-American military campaign? Because that's all is being accomplished by being here. No one is talking about the actual crime here, they're arguing if the military should even be there. Again, rape happens all over the world, every single day. The only reason this is a thread is because some people want to preach the anti american sentiment, and some want to be seen as being pro Korean. If the reason this was posted was because we all hate rape, then why isn't there a thread every day for all of the women who are rape, all over the world? You fucking tell me. Why the hell are my countrymen so deluded as to why the rest of the world might find reason for anti-american sentiment when American soldiers rape domestic nationals and are not held accountable?Those blokes at Okinawa? You think 'justice' was served there? Your nationalist bias is showing pretty clearly. There are people saying they shouldn't be punished? Where? Putting the cart before the horse or can you see into the future? It's pretty clear that they won't be punished adequately if history is a guide. Let me try to get through to you: The same thing happened in Okinawa: The Michael Brown Okinawa attempted assault incident arose from an attempted indecent assault by U.S. Marine Corps Major Michael Brown on a Filipina bartender, V. N. (initials of victim), in Okinawa, Japan, on November 2, 2002. V.N. accused Brown of attempting to rape her and throwing her cell phone into a nearby river; Brown denied the rape charges. The victim later recanted her testimony, though prosecutors presented evidence that she had received a cash payment just before doing so. The case received extensive attention in the Japanese media, especially in Okinawa, and the crime sparked a public debate over the U.S. military presence in Japan, the privileges of extraterritoriality, as well as the fair trial practices of Japanese legal system and the Japanese police. The case involved the Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security between the United States and Japan and the U.S.–Japan Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA). On July 8, 2004, after a 19-month trial, Brown was convicted by a Japanese court of attempted indecent assault and destruction of private property and received a one-year suspended prison sentence. As a result of this incident and others involving crimes committed by U.S. military personnel in Japan, both countries entered into negotiations aimed at modifying the SOFA in July 2003; ultimately, however, no changes were made to the agreement. In 2005, Brown was arrested and charged with kidnapping in the United States. He was demoted and involuntarily retired from the military in 2006 and at his trial in 2009 entered a Kennedy plea, receiving probation on the felony conviction. Does that sound like justice to you? Is this the part where I explain that a single incident doesn't prove, well, much of anything? Yesterday the Brewers won their game. I guess that means next year they'll win if they're in a similar situation. Do I think justice will be served? No, but that's only because the "justice" some people have called for is chemical castration and other ludicrous assessments. There are emotions and short of execution of these individuals, there will be upset people. I establish a pattern of behavior regarding the handling these types of events, and you dismiss them as 'single incidents'. Can you get more ridiculous? Your logical reasoning is flawed. Where is your pattern? I see two incidents that have not yet come to trial, and another in another country that currently has no military relation to the other except regional. I do dismiss them. Find a public study that shows numerous reports of behavior such as this in Korea that cannot be dismissed as "anecdotal", as you have dismissed arguments against your own. Sorry PraetorialGamer i thought what you said up to now was very reasonable (miles above what came from Klipsys and ownyaah...). But this just makes me sick to the stomach. There have been many, many issues with US military presence in other countries (this is just the tip of the iceberg!). For example when the Ramstein disaster occurred (just because i know the level here i will hedge by saying _of course the military base was not responsible for the Italian jet crashing/this horrible incident occurring_), however ambulances and medical staff from the surrounding clinics where at first not let on to the premise because they didn't have clearance. Why are US nuclear bombs stationed in Germany? Why could the last foreign minister of Germany only highlight this issue and say how unhappy Germans are with it than actually do anything about it? The list goes on... Surely with a bit of imagination you can think of many other reasons what can go wrong with having a military base full of privileged/bored men in a country. So trying to pretend that this tip of the iceberg - these latest problems are really non existent, and before then everything was just fine as well, does not sit right with me. So what is the issue here? The US government stations US soldiers around the world in military bases. The government does this by the authority given to it by the US citizens. Do Koreans, Japanese, Germans... have any democratic power over these bases? No. The only thing left is running against this brick wall, their own incompetent politicians, to put pressure on US foreign policy - which they have been trying for the last 60 years. So i think we need to work together. Of course we should make our politicians fight for this issue. But US citizens have to at least *think* about this issue. Depending on how they decide on this issue they can chose to (or not) put pressure on _their_ representatives about this. Everything else is just insulting. I hope i could make myself clear. Oh, certainly you did make yourself clear. I personally am against a strong US presence in many countries around the world, and I do think it's an issue that deserves more attention than it is getting. I'm just one person with no political influence. I can't stop my country from what it's doing. Perhaps in eight years, when I graduate from college, I might. But until then, I remain just one extremely well-educated freshman with no way to challenge the army. I can try to argue that it could be worse, can be better with effort. But that's all I personally can do. Yeah, when I was in, I was generally considered a liberal asshole by most of the people I worked with. I have some very strong opinions about issues the US Military has, internally and politically. It just so happens that I also don't believe in guilt by association. If we did believe in guilt by association, I'm pretty sure the entire world would be a huge series of smoking craters.
Pretty much the opinion of anyone who happens to read my writing, whether anonymously(which is usually better, my being a 14 year old) or otherwise, but it can be difficult to distinguish political dogma from personal belief at times.
The world would have imploded long by now had that been the case.
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On October 09 2011 06:02 deadlywaffle wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2011 05:59 semantics wrote:On October 09 2011 05:55 Chewbacca. wrote:
"Absolutely Inexcusable"
"Makes me sad to be an American"
"Hang them"
"Chemical Castration sounds good"
You people are crazy, you don't even know if they did anything. They were ACCUSED, that doesn't mean they actually did anything. It's like 90% of the people in this thread just completely skipped over those key words. Looking into it a little bit at least 1 rape would be under forceful rape, ages 18 woman and 21 solider making chemical castration not valid. But in general something like that is either the woman was raped or not raped, if raped was raped by someone looking foreign or a new recruit ir would be wearing his fatigues which would point to the US, and the US military would limit it to people who were off base during the incident and turn that person over for questioning. The problem with the op is that it doesn't have the 2 separate stories in good detail. Which basically led to this thread becoming another bash america and their military thread. Until those soldiers are PROVEN guilty, I would hope to see team liquid members be a little more open minded. But that ain't happening since it seems the only thing that they learned in school was how to mindlessly bash america.
I am sorry, but i must reiterate this;
This story illustrates the obvious and age old problems that military presence in foreign countries causes in those societies (as well as the colonizing society, in terms of self-image), which is by no means an exclusively American phenomenon.
To say that pointing this out amounts to `America bashing` is to imply that American culture, as well as its image in the world, is predicated entirely on military dominance and the exercise of hard power, which i am sure many Americans would resent.
EDIT. As for proof of guilt, i am not aware of any specific evidence, however the circumstantial evidence has to have been there for us to even know about it, also given that there are 2 separate cases, as well as the historical precedent for these types of incidents.
Additionally I find it hard to believe that some Korean teens (who by all accounts are reserved and respectful of authority) would concoct a bogus tale in this vein.
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People's reactions to this story are quite odd. Do American GI's rape at a higher rate than Koreans? Other Americans? Other foreigners? I am quite certain that every day someone gets raped in Korea by a Korean, and yet these alleged rapes have stirred up a lot of emotions.
If these soldiers did it, then I hope they receive their due punishment. But it sadly says a lot about humans that we instinctly turn it into a tribalistic thing.
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On October 09 2011 10:38 domovoi wrote:
People's reactions to this story are quite odd. Do American GI's rape at a higher rate than Koreans? Other Americans? Other foreigners? I am quite certain that every day someone gets raped in Korea by a Korean, and yet these alleged rapes have stirred up a lot of emotions.
If these soldiers did it, then I hope they receive their due punishment. But it sadly says a lot about humans that we instinctly turn it into a tribalistic thing.
It's unavoidable, this being the diverse site that it is. This is political issue, and so attracts a lot of fire from all sides.
But yes, that's what most of us have said.
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On October 09 2011 05:37 MattBarry wrote:
It's so stupid for people to get angry about this. 2 Americans does not represent the entire country.
People enjoy being angry nowadays. Remember the EG thing?
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On October 09 2011 10:38 domovoi wrote:
People's reactions to this story are quite odd. Do American GI's rape at a higher rate than Koreans? Other Americans? Other foreigners? I am quite certain that every day someone gets raped in Korea by a Korean, and yet these alleged rapes have stirred up a lot of emotions.
If these soldiers did it, then I hope they receive their due punishment. But it sadly says a lot about humans that we instinctly turn it into a tribalistic thing.
Why?
Why the Red-Herring?
Why the obsession with statistically proving that X people rape more than Y people?
It's completely missing the point.
And tribalism wut?
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On October 09 2011 10:37 _-NoMaN-_ wrote:
This story illustrates the obvious and age old problems that military presence in foreign countries causes in those societies (as well as the colonizing society, in terms of self-image), which is by no means an exclusively American phenomenon.
To say that pointing this out amounts to `America bashing` is to imply that American culture, as well as its image in the world, is predicated entirely on military dominance and the exercise of hard power, which i am sure many Americans would resent.
Oh please, there is nothing special about this story except for the fact that it happened to be American GI's. Are you going to tell me a Korean raping another Korean "illustrates the obvious and age old problem" of letting people go out at night? Would you say a foreign tourist raping a Korean "illustrates the obvious and age old problem" of allowing tourists? Immigrants?
Do you have any evidence at all that American GI's rape foreigners at a higher rate than one would expect?
It's disheartening to see a tragedy like this get turned into an opportunity for people to display their gross biases.
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On October 09 2011 10:39 pt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2011 05:37 MattBarry wrote:
It's so stupid for people to get angry about this. 2 Americans does not represent the entire country. People enjoy being angry nowadays. Remember the EG thing?
It's not angry, it's emotional. Sort of like having such a strong opinion that it must be expressed in pure logic or anger. Nothing wrong about it, just tends to get a little skewed.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37095 Posts
ANY kind of rape story is unacceptable. I'm disgusted.....
Hope justic prevails :/
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What is the point of this thread other than to incite controversy and even MORE misplaced and ignorant anti-US sentiment on this site?
Honestly, it's a tragedy... but a minor one. If we had threads for every minor tragedy... well... you simply couldn't have that many.
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On October 09 2011 10:41 PraetorialGamer wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2011 10:39 pt wrote:On October 09 2011 05:37 MattBarry wrote:
It's so stupid for people to get angry about this. 2 Americans does not represent the entire country. People enjoy being angry nowadays. Remember the EG thing? It's not angry, it's emotional. Sort of like having such a strong opinion that it must be expressed in pure logic or anger. Nothing wrong about it, just tends to get a little skewed.
Look at what people are arguing about in the thread lol. You can see a lot of this on TL. Hate first, find reason later.
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On October 09 2011 10:41 Consolidate wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2011 10:38 domovoi wrote:
People's reactions to this story are quite odd. Do American GI's rape at a higher rate than Koreans? Other Americans? Other foreigners? I am quite certain that every day someone gets raped in Korea by a Korean, and yet these alleged rapes have stirred up a lot of emotions.
If these soldiers did it, then I hope they receive their due punishment. But it sadly says a lot about humans that we instinctly turn it into a tribalistic thing. Why? Why the Red-Herring? Why the obsession with statistically proving that X people rape more than Y people? It's completely missing the point. And tribalism wut?
It's not an obsession, it's looking at this situation rationally. If the perpetrators were Koreans, it would be a non-story. If they were immigrants, it would be more of a story but not much of one. If it were tourists, same.
Logically, why should the fact that they were American GI's change our emotional perspective about these rapes? It's because they trigger age-old tribalistic biases (hundreds of thousands of years of human warfare have created an instinctual bias against foreign servicemen). And I wish we would take more effort to get past that.
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On October 09 2011 10:41 domovoi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2011 10:37 _-NoMaN-_ wrote:
This story illustrates the obvious and age old problems that military presence in foreign countries causes in those societies (as well as the colonizing society, in terms of self-image), which is by no means an exclusively American phenomenon.
To say that pointing this out amounts to `America bashing` is to imply that American culture, as well as its image in the world, is predicated entirely on military dominance and the exercise of hard power, which i am sure many Americans would resent. Oh please, there is nothing special about this story except for the fact that it happened to be American GI's. Are you going to tell me a Korean raping another Korean "illustrates the obvious and age old problem" of letting people go out at night? Would you say a foreign tourist raping a Korean "illustrates the obvious and age old problem" of allowing tourists? Immigrants? Do you have any evidence at all that American GI's rape foreigners at a higher rate than one would expect? It's disheartening to see a tragedy like this get turned into an opportunity for people to display their gross biases.
Whether or not American GIs have a higher incident of rape than Korean civilians is not the point.
Why do you insist upon bringing it up?
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EPT
